A good summary. Now Toyota is the one filled with TV screen screaming for low price; Ford is the one touting about "trade-up to a Ford". What a change in a couple of years.
Then when they realize what a horrible interior it has they feel sorry for ya
The gray cloth in most Toyota cars (Camry, Corolla, etc) is just horrible, looks so old even when the car is brand new, the worst of any cars. Many European and American car's cloth has very nice color, pattern and texture. Cloth is cheaper than leather but does not have to look that cheap as in the Toyotas.
One thing that you have to admit about Toyota is that they don't do anything half baked. It's the full commitment of the company from the president down to the temp workers to cheapen the vehicles thanks to Mr. Watanabe. It appears that they forgot their Deming roots and what made them successful. From the looks of it took just one accountant to start their demise.
The worst cloth seats I've seen in new cars recently was in a honda accord. And they love that sickening beige color that they put in a lot of their cars. I guess it's great if you have a puker in your household.
Did you say European cars? It's great to be able to sit OTSOTR in nice seats when the HP fuel pump goes on your new 535i. Oops, I think they only come in leather, my bad.
When I look on the NTSB web site, it appears nothing has changed at the other auto makers. The only place there's change is at toyota and honda. They've gotten stale. Toyota went to 6 speed transmission and push button starts in their flagship camry. What a waste. Their 4 speed transmission is bullet proof. They still put it in some models like the scion xb.
Brand new hyundai and kia have more problems than my 10 year old toyota. Ford? Really? Another transmission job waiting to happen. GM...cough. Chrysler... junk.
Actually, after looking around for a few months for a replacement for my car in case I need one in a hurry, I've found NOTHING I'd buy in the midsize car segment. I think the falling value of the dollar has a lot to do with the poor quality of cars today as well as all the unnecessary bells and whistles they add that no one needs. A heated steering wheel? For a nation of women I guess...
A heated steering wheel? For a nation of women I guess...
I guess I need to sign up for a sex-change operation.
My 2010 BMW 328i has the option, and at first, I thought exactly like you. However, being in my mid-50's, and having poor hand circulation, I found that I really like it quite a bit.
My feeling is ...Don't knock it until you've tried it!
But, I do agree its not for everyone. If I was in my 30's, I wouldn't even consider it...
FWIW, Toyota quality may have slipped a little but it is still one of the most reliable makes out there. Chrysler and Dodge are junk. GM may have improved but it is still far below the segment leaders. Ford is also a mixed bag. Hyundai was junk but the newer cars are pretty good. In my opinion quality wise, the segment leaders are Toyota,Honda, Hyundai. The Toyotas and Lexus' I have owned, not only me but my friends and family have been extremely reliable over the years including the newer models. :P
Newer Hyundais- 07+ Elantra ,new Sonata , Santa Fe and the new Tuscon. Toyota also will have new re-designs with Camry,Rav4,Corolla in 2012, the new Avalon, new Tundra in 2012 probably . Hyundai wants to introduce a 4 yr cycle instead of the regular 5 yr. Honda has the Accord,Civic and CRV coming up. So lots of competition in the future. Hope the Ford Focus is up to the task along with the Fusion when it is re designed. The new Edge is disappointing and hope the new Explorer is good. :P
But I think the big factor is the oil price. If gas goes to 4 and above , then sales of all these SUV's and CUV's can tank and midsize,compact ,hybrid sedan may take off. :shades:
Last I read, the Avy was not being upgraded until 2014, with a hybrid version coming, too...that mid cycle freshening for 2011 is supposed to be good for 3 years...then a fairly dramatic change, including that hybrid. It'll be interesting to see....
The cloth in our Sienna is excellent. It has a soft, velour-like texture that manages to be both comfortable and grippy, so you don't slide out of your seat.
The fact that you generalize the way you do goes to show just how deep your bias runs.
The luxury brands from Europe basically use vinyl that mimicks leather on their entry level models. Some of the stuff is better than others, it varies.
I like cloth because it breathes better. Perforated leather is OK, but it had better be heated.
del - they deserve a 2nd look. The new interiors are much improved, far fewer seams, softer materials, nicer designs. I agree some of the old designs were industry-worst, but look again.
They perhaps deserve the "Most Improved Player" award.
Juice, I would say it's like a lipstick on a pig. As you said in your next post - Toyota has the highest cash reserves. So my question - How can a BK company or a company in debt come out with better products ?? They dont have the cash to invest in R&D or marketing. They have to keep thinking about paying back the amount + additional loans. Not to mention the extra union and health care costs for the Det 3.
So how do they invest in R&D ? They can brush up a little bit - like Chrysler is doing with minivans / Durango/Jeep GC -- but they just will not have that cash to invest. Same with Ford. they have a debt of I think $30 billion and come 2012 they have to pay tax on that debt. So how do they spend on R&D?? :P
Toyota has cash reserves and they can spend a lot on R & D. Yes, they wanted to make even more profits by allowing quality to slip a little and cheapening the interiors. Honda too. Hyundai also has cash reserves as it is a very big player in Asia [except Japan of course]. So I think the major players in the future will be Toyo/Hon/Hyun. Ford will still be a big player as they have the F150 PU blockbuster. :shades:
The SUA lawsuits are the biggest bull since a long time. I would rather have NHTSA investigate auto makers for defects like inferior brake/rotor set ups, electrical problems that are omnipresent and for those horrible squeaks and rattles which no new car should have. It is easy to go after this stupid SUA theory. Sinister like -- Toyota is evil !! Ya right ! The only people who will win in these lawsuits are the trial attorneys who will make millions and all others will go pound salt !! :lemon:
In one class action lawsuit - I dont remember which one , I think against Chrysler but not sure --- the trial lawyers got millions and the car owners got a coupon for something like $9. Yes, not a typo -- 9 dollars - like 3 gallons of gas.
Look, there is no such thing as a perfect corporation, just like no perfect humans. I know that, we all know that. BUT toyota's shenanigans are thousands of miles ahead of Nissan, Honda, Hyundai.
And worse, the cover-ups. If this is not true, then why did toyota pay tens of millions of dollars to the federal government ? And did Nissan, Honda, Hyundai get fined like that ? Of course not ! Because they did nothing of the kind that toyota did !
Warren Buffett is not perfect either, I am sure he has his dark side, we all do. But look, Madoff got fined and went to prison. Buffett did NOT ! So comparing Nissan, Honda and Hyundai to toyota is like comparing Buffett to Madoff.
Its the DEGREE of shenanigan deeds that separate them.
This is a FACT. Its up to you to defend toyota if you want to.
Some correction, Nissan was an even later player than toyota in China. Remember in 1999 under old management they almost went belly up. That set them back for quite sometime in China and other markets.
But not surprisingly, due to their excellent quality today and more " refined " way of doing business, today, Nissan is BIGGER than toyota in China. And growing faster as well.
Speaks volumes about their quality, and remember, in China, where some people still don't like the Japanese, it takes a lot of good quality for Nissan to achieve the no.1 Japanese car brand there.
toyota, the older player, is obviously less regarded than Nissan (not to mention Hyundai, VW, GM, brands that jd power often mocked) Small wonder, perhaps many Chinese have also read the shocking news about toyota's crazy behaviour, atrocious quality and decided not to waste their hard earned money on toyota....
Wow ! You sure have a good sense of proportion ! How can you say GM was not far behind ? Do the maths. 4 million vs toyota's MORE THAN 10 million !
Tell me, if you have say 11 million dollars and I have only 4, or even just 2 million dollars, and I say in public, " Look, I am almost as rich as Atei ! " Would you laugh at me in private ?
Not to mention the severity of the case. Don't forget qualitative comparison, not just quantitative. In the bank account comparison, a dollar belonging to you is worth just as much as my dollar. But EACH toyota recalled because it risk getting SUA cannot be regarded as equally serious as say a GM recalled due to more minor problems.
Unless you think that SUA is a small matter.
The other car maker's recalls are for more petty common problems, NOT for SUA !!!
Nissan's recall is for petty matters, NOT SUA !!! Even if you adjust for volume wise, its still telling, 2 million vs more than 10 million. AND toyota's much more serious cases !
Your way of comparing is like comparing say Boeing recalls for cabin vibration compared to another plane maker whose recalls are for inability to slow down the jet engine (thus unable to land), or for continued stalling.
For airplanes, its better, SUA in an airplane will not kill you, unless the speed reaches up to more than the plane frame can bear, but in a car, it won't take long before you crash and get killed !
Remember what Biller said in his interview ? About those failed toyota roof tests and toyota covered them up ?
As for the German car makers, I have never heard stories of them making weak cars and covering them up, German cars are well known around the world for strength and safety.
Even in third world countries where toyota sells several models whose crash test ratings are atrocious, the Germans did not do the same. That could be why VW is the king not just in Europe but in China as well but did poorly in poorer countries.
I have never heard people who laugh at German cars for their strength, on the other hand, if you go to third world countries, you will be amazed at some of the toyotas on sale there.
I can give some crash test data if anyone wants to. There are SOME toyotas on sale there whose crash test ratings are on PAR with some Chinese domestic brands !
toyota is even more ruthless in the third world countries where consumers know nothing and don't care abt safety, crash test matters. And there are no NHTSA like organizations there. But the Germans did not exploit this.
In a way its clear to me that the Germans care more for their customers' safety than toyota. By insisting on selling safe cars in third world countries with much more safety features, their prices are much higher, and thus VW, so big in the big markets, are very small in say South East Asia, where many weak, very cheap toyotas are bought in huge numbers.
And its no surprise, considering that toyota even dared to fool around with recalls here in the US and covering up, delaying recalls, risking their customer's lives !
Protect you ? Do you know about Koua Fong Lee's story ? Trust me. If anything happens to you and you even dare to try to sue toyota, toyota will counter-SUE THE PANTS off you and put all the blame on YOU !!!
"...The playing field has changed. Toyota and Honda no longer have the quality card all to themselves "
Honda I must say have very decent quality like Nissan, but as for toyota, now that we know more about their multiple and numerous past covered up matters exposed, I for one am convinced that toyota NEVER did have a decent quality card in the first place.
Its all covered up for a long time by settlements, delaying of recalls, minimizing recalls, asking jd to give them high ratings etc...
In a nutshell, toyota have FOOLED many people for a LONG TIME....! They have created a virtuous circle for themselves for a long time like this :
Cover up problems - Work with JD for high ratings - People think toyota superb - BUY a lot of toyotas - MORE MONEY to " work " with JD and pay settlements to cover up issues - Volume increases - Squezze suppliers even more - MORE MONEY - More money to payout even more settlements to shut people's mouth and so on........
You see this virtuous circle for toyota but vicious circle for unsuspecting consumers ? But as they say, you can't fool EVERYBODY EVERYTIME !
Today that circle is starting to break, but still, some people still refuses to see the evidence, and instead continue to dream about the toyota paradise image that toyota has created !
Looks to me like someone bought a Toyota, could not afford the payments and got their car repo'ed!! Jeez - I guess there is no difference between illogical and rational !! :P
Thats no surprise ! Alan Mulally is a Boeing engineering veteran ! Now, tell me which one is more difficult to make, a big commercial airplane that have to stay in the air for a long time with decent safety record, or a simple car that hopefully won't do a SUA ?
Small wonder, I can imagine when Mulally, having built a superb engineering brain at Boeing, started at Ford. He must have felt car matters are so easy compared to a complex Boeing 747 !!!
Compare to toyota ! Now that no ones have given an answer, I'll tell you guys, many of toyota's top brass is a bean counter !
katsuaki watanabe is a very notorious bean counter who even tried to save money by changing things in the toilet ! akio toyoda, the boss today, does he have Alan Mulally's kind of brain power ? Even hiroshi okuda, another top toyota brass and former chairman of the board, said akio toyoda is just a spoiled rich crown prince of the toyoda family !
I have the full story if anyone wants to read it. Its amusing really looking at the way the toyota brass shoots among themselves in private !
Now that strong statement does not come from Ford or Nissan mind you, it comes from deep inside toyota's inner top circle !
Another superbly wired brain is Carlos Ghosn at Nissan. He is also a longtime combat veteran engineer since the very old days when he worked for Michelin. He graduated from one of France's famous engineering schools.
You just can't expect quality from BEAN COUNTERs ! But I must admit bean counters are very good at wringing water from a dry towel. And very good at deciding how much to pay off settlements to cover up defects !
Of course ! Deming's days have LONG since GONE ! Its a decades ago matter. Of course the more recent toyota brass, with all their billion dollar bank accounts, thinks they are smarter than Deming !
Deming will turn in his grave if he sees what toyota have done ! But luckily, the other students like Honda and Nissan did not. Small wonder Honda and Nissan is poorer than toyota. Because they did not try to wring their towels THAT HARD. And they did not do shenanigans like toyota to fool people into thinking they are the best.
Its common for a student to one day become proud and throw all their teacher's teachings away !
And as for their WRING WATER from a DRY TOWEL philosophy, I must admit toyota have wringed it so hard that not only does NO water come out, but the towel is beginning to TEAR !!!
I say it again THE PAST IS NOT A GUIDE TO THE FUTURE !
Forget about your old toyota ! The newer ones are junk ! And hey, some of the old ones turn out to be junk too ! Just that its been covered up so well by settlements that few people know.
Koua Fong Lee's camry is an old 1990s model...
And give me evidence that toyota is still the best. What evidence do you have ? Just saying that have no meaning at all !
Because so many people have been fooled by toyota for so long that Ford have no choice but to accomodate this created mindset. Even though I doubt that even Ford's top brass believes it themselves after looking at toyota's so many horrendous problems !
Haha ! Your soft nice texture will have no meaning at all when one day something happens to your toyota, and you face this mean monster with billion dollar accounts in court one day, willing to sue your pants off to make sure you admit in the end that its DRIVER ERROR !!!
You forgot the VW group whose sales totalled more than 7 million world wide, and the Nissan-Renault Group whose total worldwide sales also close to the 7 million mark. toyota is NOT that much further in front.
And the VW, Nissan-Renault group achieved these big sales in spite of them often given low ranks by jd power. Without doing frequent settlements like toyota to cover-up defects.
Now atei, if you have say 8-9 million dollars and I have about 7 million plus, will you dare to laugh if I say I am almost as rich as you and I am growing faster than you in China and Europe ?
You cannot judge the future of any automaker without seering how well they do in other big important markets like Europe and China. Now I tell you, in China and Europe, the big ones and fast growing ones are VW and Nissan ! NOT toyota or honda !
And the US and Japan car markets, toyota's stronghold, are STAGNANT and hardly grow compared to China !
Its just maths. 2 people almost equally rich, whoever grows his sales and profits faster will emerge the winner.
I will put my bet in VW and the Nissan-Renault Group. Oh yes, of course the Hyundai-Kia group are also very strong today.
Toyota released year-end global sales numbers for 2010. Thanks to an uptick in December sales, they were slightly better than estimated in December. Toyota Motor Corporation global group sales rose 8 percent to 8.418 million units. This includes Daihatsu and Hino.
Toyota sold 7.528 million units under its own nameplate, up 8 percent
So looks like 2010 was a good year for Toyota globally.
Comments
The gray cloth in most Toyota cars (Camry, Corolla, etc) is just horrible, looks so old even when the car is brand new, the worst of any cars. Many European and American car's cloth has very nice color, pattern and texture. Cloth is cheaper than leather but does not have to look that cheap as in the Toyotas.
Did you say European cars? It's great to be able to sit OTSOTR in nice seats when the HP fuel pump goes on your new 535i. Oops, I think they only come in leather, my bad.
Brand new hyundai and kia have more problems than my 10 year old toyota. Ford? Really? Another transmission job waiting to happen. GM...cough. Chrysler... junk.
Actually, after looking around for a few months for a replacement for my car in case I need one in a hurry, I've found NOTHING I'd buy in the midsize car segment. I think the falling value of the dollar has a lot to do with the poor quality of cars today as well as all the unnecessary bells and whistles they add that no one needs. A heated steering wheel? For a nation of women I guess...
I guess I need to sign up for a sex-change operation.
My 2010 BMW 328i has the option, and at first, I thought exactly like you. However, being in my mid-50's, and having poor hand circulation, I found that I really like it quite a bit.
My feeling is ...Don't knock it until you've tried it!
But, I do agree its not for everyone. If I was in my 30's, I wouldn't even consider it...
Any new Toyota's in the lot? How do I tell?
But I think the big factor is the oil price. If gas goes to 4 and above , then sales of all these SUV's and CUV's can tank and midsize,compact ,hybrid sedan may take off. :shades:
Pay close attention to those ads - Ford still uses Toyota as the benchmark.
I like Mike Rowe but those ads are annoying. Tout MyFord Touch without mentioning Camry 100 times.
The fact that you generalize the way you do goes to show just how deep your bias runs.
I like cloth because it breathes better. Perforated leather is OK, but it had better be heated.
del - they deserve a 2nd look. The new interiors are much improved, far fewer seams, softer materials, nicer designs. I agree some of the old designs were industry-worst, but look again.
They perhaps deserve the "Most Improved Player" award.
Toyota still has the most cash reserves of any automaker in the world. The total? Well over $48 billion
So how do they invest in R&D ? They can brush up a little bit - like Chrysler is doing with minivans / Durango/Jeep GC -- but they just will not have that cash to invest. Same with Ford. they have a debt of I think $30 billion and come 2012 they have to pay tax on that debt. So how do they spend on R&D?? :P
Toyota has cash reserves and they can spend a lot on R & D. Yes, they wanted to make even more profits by allowing quality to slip a little and cheapening the interiors. Honda too. Hyundai also has cash reserves as it is a very big player in Asia [except Japan of course]. So I think the major players in the future will be Toyo/Hon/Hyun. Ford will still be a big player as they have the F150 PU blockbuster. :shades:
They will need it to pay for all of the Tacoma and Tundra frame replacements due to bad design and inferior steel.
average replacement cost: $11,000 to $13,000 per vehicle.
Also the numerous SUA lawsuits in the pipeline; and complaints are still being made.
Oh, they'll get something...
Probably a coupon for a $250.00 discount on their next Toyota purchase...
And worse, the cover-ups. If this is not true, then why did toyota pay tens of millions of dollars to the federal government ? And did Nissan, Honda, Hyundai get fined like that ? Of course not ! Because they did nothing of the kind that toyota did !
Warren Buffett is not perfect either, I am sure he has his dark side, we all do. But look, Madoff got fined and went to prison. Buffett did NOT ! So comparing Nissan, Honda and Hyundai to toyota is like comparing Buffett to Madoff.
Its the DEGREE of shenanigan deeds that separate them.
This is a FACT. Its up to you to defend toyota if you want to.
But not surprisingly, due to their excellent quality today and more " refined " way of doing business, today, Nissan is BIGGER than toyota in China. And growing faster as well.
Speaks volumes about their quality, and remember, in China, where some people still don't like the Japanese, it takes a lot of good quality for Nissan to achieve the no.1 Japanese car brand there.
toyota, the older player, is obviously less regarded than Nissan (not to mention Hyundai, VW, GM, brands that jd power often mocked) Small wonder, perhaps many Chinese have also read the shocking news about toyota's crazy behaviour, atrocious quality and decided not to waste their hard earned money on toyota....
Tell me, if you have say 11 million dollars and I have only 4, or even just 2 million dollars, and I say in public, " Look, I am almost as rich as Atei ! " Would you laugh at me in private ?
Not to mention the severity of the case. Don't forget qualitative comparison, not just quantitative. In the bank account comparison, a dollar belonging to you is worth just as much as my dollar. But EACH toyota recalled because it risk getting SUA cannot be regarded as equally serious as say a GM recalled due to more minor problems.
Unless you think that SUA is a small matter.
The other car maker's recalls are for more petty common problems, NOT for SUA !!!
Nissan's recall is for petty matters, NOT SUA !!! Even if you adjust for volume wise, its still telling, 2 million vs more than 10 million. AND toyota's much more serious cases !
Your way of comparing is like comparing say Boeing recalls for cabin vibration compared to another plane maker whose recalls are for inability to slow down the jet engine (thus unable to land), or for continued stalling.
For airplanes, its better, SUA in an airplane will not kill you, unless the speed reaches up to more than the plane frame can bear, but in a car, it won't take long before you crash and get killed !
As for the German car makers, I have never heard stories of them making weak cars and covering them up, German cars are well known around the world for strength and safety.
Even in third world countries where toyota sells several models whose crash test ratings are atrocious, the Germans did not do the same. That could be why VW is the king not just in Europe but in China as well but did poorly in poorer countries.
I have never heard people who laugh at German cars for their strength, on the other hand, if you go to third world countries, you will be amazed at some of the toyotas on sale there.
I can give some crash test data if anyone wants to. There are SOME toyotas on sale there whose crash test ratings are on PAR with some Chinese domestic brands !
toyota is even more ruthless in the third world countries where consumers know nothing and don't care abt safety, crash test matters. And there are no NHTSA like organizations there. But the Germans did not exploit this.
In a way its clear to me that the Germans care more for their customers' safety than toyota. By insisting on selling safe cars in third world countries with much more safety features, their prices are much higher, and thus VW, so big in the big markets, are very small in say South East Asia, where many weak, very cheap toyotas are bought in huge numbers.
And its no surprise, considering that toyota even dared to fool around with recalls here in the US and covering up, delaying recalls, risking their customer's lives !
Honda I must say have very decent quality like Nissan, but as for toyota, now that we know more about their multiple and numerous past covered up matters exposed, I for one am convinced that toyota NEVER did have a decent quality card in the first place.
Its all covered up for a long time by settlements, delaying of recalls, minimizing recalls, asking jd to give them high ratings etc...
In a nutshell, toyota have FOOLED many people for a LONG TIME....! They have created a virtuous circle for themselves for a long time like this :
Cover up problems - Work with JD for high ratings - People think toyota superb - BUY a lot of toyotas - MORE MONEY to " work " with JD and pay settlements to cover up issues - Volume increases - Squezze suppliers even more - MORE MONEY - More money to payout even more settlements to shut people's mouth and so on........
You see this virtuous circle for toyota but vicious circle for unsuspecting consumers ? But as they say, you can't fool EVERYBODY EVERYTIME !
Today that circle is starting to break, but still, some people still refuses to see the evidence, and instead continue to dream about the toyota paradise image that toyota has created !
Much more fun reading them than any soap opera ! Go ahead and keep posting like a SUA writer !! :shades:
Small wonder, I can imagine when Mulally, having built a superb engineering brain at Boeing, started at Ford. He must have felt car matters are so easy compared to a complex Boeing 747 !!!
Compare to toyota ! Now that no ones have given an answer, I'll tell you guys, many of toyota's top brass is a bean counter !
katsuaki watanabe is a very notorious bean counter who even tried to save money by changing things in the toilet ! akio toyoda, the boss today, does he have Alan Mulally's kind of brain power ? Even hiroshi okuda, another top toyota brass and former chairman of the board, said akio toyoda is just a spoiled rich crown prince of the toyoda family !
I have the full story if anyone wants to read it. Its amusing really looking at the way the toyota brass shoots among themselves in private !
Now that strong statement does not come from Ford or Nissan mind you, it comes from deep inside toyota's inner top circle !
Another superbly wired brain is Carlos Ghosn at Nissan. He is also a longtime combat veteran engineer since the very old days when he worked for Michelin. He graduated from one of France's famous engineering schools.
You just can't expect quality from BEAN COUNTERs ! But I must admit bean counters are very good at wringing water from a dry towel. And very good at deciding how much to pay off settlements to cover up defects !
Deming will turn in his grave if he sees what toyota have done ! But luckily, the other students like Honda and Nissan did not. Small wonder Honda and Nissan is poorer than toyota. Because they did not try to wring their towels THAT HARD. And they did not do shenanigans like toyota to fool people into thinking they are the best.
Its common for a student to one day become proud and throw all their teacher's teachings away !
And as for their WRING WATER from a DRY TOWEL philosophy, I must admit toyota have wringed it so hard that not only does NO water come out, but the towel is beginning to TEAR !!!
Forget about your old toyota ! The newer ones are junk ! And hey, some of the old ones turn out to be junk too ! Just that its been covered up so well by settlements that few people know.
Koua Fong Lee's camry is an old 1990s model...
And give me evidence that toyota is still the best. What evidence do you have ? Just saying that have no meaning at all !
Madoff also have BIG bank balances before he got exposed. The drug lords probably also have a lot in the bank !
Hey, don't judge quality by how much money they have in the bank ! Many smart intelligent people are rich, but so DO MANY CROOKS !!!
And the VW, Nissan-Renault group achieved these big sales in spite of them often given low ranks by jd power. Without doing frequent settlements like toyota to cover-up defects.
Now atei, if you have say 8-9 million dollars and I have about 7 million plus, will you dare to laugh if I say I am almost as rich as you and I am growing faster than you in China and Europe ?
You cannot judge the future of any automaker without seering how well they do in other big important markets like Europe and China. Now I tell you, in China and Europe, the big ones and fast growing ones are VW and Nissan ! NOT toyota or honda !
And the US and Japan car markets, toyota's stronghold, are STAGNANT and hardly grow compared to China !
Its just maths. 2 people almost equally rich, whoever grows his sales and profits faster will emerge the winner.
I will put my bet in VW and the Nissan-Renault Group. Oh yes, of course the Hyundai-Kia group are also very strong today.
No they don't - Dana is paying since they supplied those.
If you're going to follow this thread, try to keep up.
I've been saying that for a long, long time. Right here in this thread, actually.
toyota's shenanigans are thousands of miles ahead of Nissan
I disagree. Their shenanigans are pretty much industry standard. Nissan had about the same number of recalls per vehicle on the road last year, too.
You compared GM's 2010 only recalls to Toyota's 2009 and 2010 recalls combined. And you're not even looking at GM's worst year, for that matter.
Funny how you guys always have to "cheat" to make Toyota look bad. Just like the 600 lbs overweight Scion xB.
That's your source? Seriously?
The same guy who paid punitive damages to Toyota?
Your star witness is a crook.
Another superbly wired brain is Carlos Ghosn at Nissan
You got it backwards, Ghosn is the bean counter. His nickname?
Carlos "le cost cutter" Ghosn.
You're all wrong about him.
Source please?
It's nice to keep making stuff up! How convenient.
Did you learn that from Nissan's Carlos "le cost cutter" Ghosn?
But they are in front.
First truth you've acknowledged in a while.
Toyota sold 7.528 million units under its own nameplate, up 8 percent
So looks like 2010 was a good year for Toyota globally.
LOL