Toyota on the mend?

louiswei

If the article is true then it sounds like 2011 will be a good time for hybrid car shopping. That's great news for me since my next round of car shopping will be around Summer 2011.

Hopefully there will be a hybrid Lexus IS or a hybrid Toyota sports car (FT-HS) on the market by then.

drfill

50+MPG out of the next Prius, and hopefully a 30+MPG Lexus will come out in a couple of years.

Toyota has proven that they are at the front of nickel-battery technology, and are waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Toyota, it seems, doesn't want to invest into anymore hybrids that look like their ICE brothers. So a Corolla Hybrid seems like a long shot.

With the parts-sharing, I don't see the problem with a Hybrid Corolla for 2010, selling for less than $20k. People buy Corollas to get good economy.

Honda will not remake the CRX unless it is a major player. I expect great things from it. It has quite a heritage to live up to.

DrFill

stever

Thanks for the link - it always seems to come down to the batteries.

And not much has changed in 100 years if you're just trying to get to Brighton:

magnette, "Mystery car pix...." #13203, 15 Oct 2007 12:36 am

nippononly

that everything we have been mentioning here recently is summed up in a diatribe with the usual acid tone on this week's issue of "Rants" at the AutoExtremist:

http://www.autoextremist.com/index.shtml

The only thing in there I didn't know was that Chairman Toyoda had been inducted into the Automotive Hall of Fame. Way to go!

But Mr. Delorenzo is spot on with many of his points, if a bit over the top and too gleeful in presenting them. :-/

When it comes to Farley and Press leaving, I don;t think it's so much the loss of those two people that matters - two people no matter how brilliant will not make or break a company this large - but rather about what it indicates about the corporate culture at Toyota North America (and maybe Toyota Japan too) nowadays. They have to be able to retain their brightest stars in order to grow to their maximum potential while maintaining the standards we have come to expect.

kdhspyder

There does seem to be some frictions between Torrance and the home office. When the Tundra was launched I heard that Press had to go over there to present the pricing case because the original structure was ridiculously high. what he came away with was the inclusion of the Tow Package on all the V8's as standard equipment at no extra cost. The Reg Cab pricing was and is way way off the market, probably intentionally.

Now the new Highlander is out with the 4c dropped thus the MSRPs start over the psychological $30000 barrier. The New HH pricing has just hit, running from $35000 to $45000!!! Holy....!

But the new LC takes the cake! $71,000 and up.

This is in a down market here in the US. TMS here is a SALES company. Sales people want to be able to sell as much product as possible. I can see a lot of friction developing over what vehicles can be sold here in this environment at these prices.

hypnosis44

A raid on an oppositions leadership does not mean they are getting the best and the brightest. It does mean the opposition is put off balance. Look at it the way you would at a military campaign - keep them off balance and always regrouping while you pick off the outlyers at minimum costs to yourselves.

The product quality of both businesses will suffer, Grisham's Law and all, but....

louiswei

Let's take a walk down the memory lane.

Enjoy.





























Source: Toyota celebrates 50 years of U.S. sales

fintail

The old cars have more character than the new ones...as with many companies, I guess. I always liked those 4-Runners like that blue 2 door model, and the wedge Supra below it. The Camry 5-door and the weird two-tone one behind it are also more interesting than a pigsnout

rockylee

ROTFFLMAO !!!!! OMG, those pic's bring back memories !!!!

-Rocky

snapcracklepop

I used to have a 4 runner just like that! Thanks for the pictures... definitely a blast from the past...

louiswei

Word on the Tokyo auto show floor is that the Lexus LF-A supercar is a no show because it's not fast enough. Lexus wants it to reach 350 kp/h but it'll only touch 330 kp/h. That's 205 mph. Seems fast enough to us, but Lexus wants the LF-A to be faster than all its rivals. To reach the mark, Lexus has put the car back on the drawing board for an aerodynamics redo.

205 mph is NOT fast enough??!! :surprise: :surprise:

Source: 2007 Tokyo Auto Show: No Lexus LF-A. No Acura V10

gagrice

Oh yeah, I like my cars to all go at least 220 MPH :shades:

What are they thinking?

louiswei

I guess Lexus is really aiming at the Ferrari with this car. If that's the case then I guess it's a good sign, hopefully it'll turn out to be a track ready F430 fighter rather than another GT coupe like the Austin Martin DB8.

Rumor has it that Acura is turning the next NSX into a FR GT coupe and since Nissan is aiming at Porsche with its GT-R it all makes sense that Lexus has Ferrari in its cross-hair. It shall be interesting to see who will post the fastest lap in the Ring.

rockylee

205 mph really isn't that fast guys. That is cruise control speed for GM cars here in Michigan.

-Rocky

iluvmysephia1

what'd'you guys do to old Vega's and Pinto's putting down the road there in Michigan in the right hand lane? Shove them off the road? And let's not forget the Gremlin's and Pacer's.

I considered buying a Gremlin in light green color back in '83 but traded in for a 1970 Chevy Suburban instead. A rolling tank and bus that probably netted us about 9 mpg.

No, 205 mph is simply child's play, Toyota. We know you can improve on that.

stever

205 mpg would get my attention.

iluvmysephia1

and how are we doing on that front, anyway?

Considering how we've all lined the pockets of the oil companies for so long I figure it's about time for them to give to each and every American over the age of 18 that is a driver a $10,000 rebate back.

Then, we can start thinking about that hybrid or plug-in rig we'd like best that is out on the market.

Talk about being fleeced for market for years.

Drug prices and health care are a few others but that's way off topic for Toyota in 2007.

To see Toyota flounder a bit in 2007 is like a refreshing eastern breeze on one of our 95 degree Arizona days.

stever

so long I figure it's about time for them to give to each and every American over the age of 18 that is a driver a $10,000 rebate

I think I did that over 20 years getting Alaska Permanent Fund Dividends. Albertans are getting money out of their Heritage Fund I think. Nice sitting on a pool of oil.

Toyota is getting hammered for fighting CAFE, so I don't think even 60 mpg is in the cards anytime soon.

kdhspyder

I'll be the first to go out on a limb and put the next Prius in Oct 2008 at a level of 52-54 mpg Combined under the new testing rules ( up from 46 Combined this year ). If they come out with a smaller Prius sedan in addition to the Next Gen hatch then it being over 60 mpg is for certain....IMHO.

Li-Ions a couple of years after that....

stever

You're plugged in to the auto industry way more than me. So I hope you're right ... a couple of years has a way to drag out to five or ten sometimes though.

Here's a recent blurb from the Green Car Advisor about other Prius flavors:

More Than One Kind of Prius Up Toyota's Sleeve?

louiswei

Both will have the 1.8L standard and 2.4L as option. The base engine is good for 132HP and the 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine is rated at 158 horsepower and 162 pound-feet of torque.

The Corolla looks like a baby Camry but definitely sharper than the current model. The interior is a huge improvement IMO, I prefer the clean setup over Civic's spaceship kind of feel. Since this looks just like Corollas in other markets I sure don't understand what's with the 1 year delay. :confuse:

Overall a nice effort from Toyota I think, not over the top but improved from the current one (how can they not come to think of it...). I don't think there is any doubt that the sales should remain strong for years to come.













Source: Edmunds Inside Line

nippononly

"I don't think there is any doubt that the sales should remain strong for years to come."

Put me down on your list for DOUBT. I mean, come on. This was the cause of an extra year's wait? After reading the press release it seems little updated from the current model, except for the standard safety gear. Performance might be worse given the probable weight gain. Fuel economy doesn't stand out, it may also be worse than the current model. We now have TWO sport trims, and neither one is lowered or has suspension tweaks for handling. And 158 hp is tops?

Sentra SE-R: 177 hp.
" Spec-V: 200 hp
Civic SI: 200 hp

And all three with better handling, if Toyota's past is anything to judge by.

Rumor is that within a year Cobalt will chime in with 260 hp. Ditto for Saturn Astra. I could go on.

On the bottom end, we will still have Corollas with hand-crank windows, only instead of selling them all for $12,9 dealers will be trying to get $15K for them?

british_rover

The corolla just looks like a smaller version of the camry which I think actually improves the camry's styling. In the future I can see going into the toyota store and instead of asking for a camry you just ask for the large toyota and instead of asking for a Yaris you ask for the small toyota.

It will be like McDonalds. I wonder if they will ask you to supersize your order for 2,500 dollars more and get the Avalon.

That matrix is just nasty looking. It probably has the worst case of mail slot windows since the FJ Cruiser. I bet rear visibility out of that thing is non-existent.

fezo

It certainly is a Corolla. Yeah, it takes some Camry cues but it scream Corolla to me. For may that's not a bad things and I'll grant it having something more appealing of a dash than the Civic which to me is still a no deal issue.

anythngbutgm

I really like the new Matrix... Power is a bit low, but I wonder if the S/C like the one in the Scion tC will be offered eventually since the 2.4l is most likely identical.

200hp should be plenty.

Sentra SE-R: 177 hp.
" Spec-V: 200 hp
Civic SI: 200 hp

Yes, but none of those are offered in hatch/5-door. Really, the only thing I can see this going after would be the Mazda3 and Subaru Impreza. I'd also be willing to bet the rumored "lightweight coupe" will be Toyo's answer to those other 2.

louiswei

What's the combine sales number for the Sentra SE-R, Civic Si and Cobalt SS again?

Yup, like I said, the Corolla sales will remain strong because now-a-days appliances are selling better than hot rods. Do I want a Corolla? Heck no but at the same time I am driving a 300HP performance sedan. Totally different demographic than your regular Corolla buyers.

fezo

I would agree with that. Not my cup of tea but they'll sell boatloads.

kdhspyder

And all three with better handling, if Toyota's past is anything to judge by.

Rumor is that within a year Cobalt will chime in with 260 hp. Ditto for Saturn Astra. I could go on.

On the bottom end, we will still have Corollas with hand-crank windows, only instead of selling them all for $12,9 dealers will be trying to get $15K for them?

I think you're right about the pricing being in the $15500-$16500 for a base model. This is what has always been Toyota's bread and butter, for better or worse. They aim for the lowest common denominator in clientele but this is also where the most volume is and where the most profit is.

What if they sold 5% of all the vehicles as XRS's and the vehicles you noted all outsold the XRS model. Oh well. If the other 95% of sales is crushing the others because the costs are lower, the distrubution network is larger, the name is rock solid... and the buyers are snapping them up... then that's a good thing. It forces the other models to the periphery of this segment where the volume is smaller and the cost-to-build is higher.

nippononly

Oh sure, I hear you, but all those other models have their "regular" versions as well.

Skipping the hot rods for a moment, let's look at the volume of the lines. Civic LX. Corolla LE. I dunno. Seems like the Civic has already been around a couple of years, so the BRAND NEW Corolla should eclipse it at least for the first year. I don't see an eclipse. I see them pretty much neck-and-neck depending on customer priorities. Which is going to hurt Toyota in 3 years when Honda releases its NEXT Civic. And is going to make selling them at or near sticker harder for dealers right away.

If they had boosted the base price $500, they could have made the power package standard and one-upped Honda for a little while at least. ;-)

I guess my disappointment is just mainly because the wait was said to be so that they could go back to the drawing boards to outdo the fantastic new Civic. In fact, I think it was what I suspected all along: the Toyota ship was getting real leaky, and they needed an extra year to get the store back in order before going ahead with more new releases.

And as for saying there could be no DOUBT this would sell strongly, well, that just seemed a bit much....

nippononly

that Toyota is still doing well, is holding onto its customers. According to this, the Toyota brand leads the industry, with a 64% retention rate:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/12-06-200- 7/0004718239&EDATE=

Right behind Toyota is Lexus at 63 and Honda at 62. The average is 49% and has remained at that level for several years.

On a side note, most improved awards for customer retention go to Suzuki and Mazda.

iluvmysephia1

to do well at, nippon. Toyota will continue to be successful if this statistic continues to be favorable for them. My current car's manufacturer, Mitsubishi, could use some of that mojo. Their return customer average was only 31%. Very near the statistic for Kia Motors, my other favorite car maker.

anythngbutgm

Mitsu is the fastest growing import brand in the country right now. But it's still going to take a while for people to catch on. There is just too much competition these days, too many good options out there. Buyers are going to bounce around left and right knowing that a better deal can be had on just as good a car from a different brand.

Which makes it all the more impressive that Toyota, for the amount of stuff they sell and not being the only game in town as far as reliability/quality is concerned, AND not really selling out to fleets, they still hold their own in appeal. Folks I know won't go anywhere else, they're just that finicky.

nippononly

it's really significant that it beat Lexus, a luxury brand. Kudos Toyota. I wish I knew where BMW/MB ranked.

louiswei

BMW ranked 4th and MB ranked 8th.

nippononly

Thanks for the info! :-)

I notice that some preliminary spy pics are up on the Web for the next-gen 4Runner, which will also possibly be the second-gen GX570, and I have to ask, why Toyota, why? With Highlander and RX having grown enough to accomodate lots of people and cargo, not to mention a third row, why do you need more than one truck-based jumbo-ute for each brand (LX570 for Lexus, LC and Sequoia for Toyota)?

Take 4Runner back to its roots, maybe eliminate the FJ Cruiser along the way, and definitely eliminate the GX, and in so doing avoid making the product lines too truck-heavy! How about spending the Lexus R&D money on a genuinely fun GS car, instead of the largely redundant models we have now? And no, I don't just mean making a monster-engined GS-F.

Make the Runner more like a 4-door FJ Cruiser: smaller and more maneuverable, hopefully lighter and more fuel-efficient as well. For the few out there who really need to tow and also carry lots of people, let Sequoia be their beast. Spend the development money on a proper compact crossover now that RAV4 got so big (third row, low fuel economy, and all). And how about some more fun small cars?

louiswei

Good question there and I can only think of 2 answers:

1. Because they can
2. Because they can so they want to keep a truly off-road capable SUV in the lineup (what's the point I have no clue since who the heck is going to take a $60K luxury SUV off the pavement, maybe for bragging rights)

As for the 4Runner I can see it to slowly become a niche product within Toyota's lineup along with the FJ. There will always be a sizable group who demands a 4-door, proper looking, truly off-road capable BOF SUV. Since TMC is big enough I guess they will be the few left that provides a product to satisfy those people (GM is another IMO).

You are so right about the GS, I seriously hope Lexus learned a lesson this time that a half [non-permissible content removed] 5-series competitor is just not good enough for this segment. Hopefully the next one will bring back the glory days when the last gen GS was around. Make the ES a soft RWD or whatever, but the GS has to be a good sports sedan, period.

About those fun small cars we've being hoping for, looks like it is going to come true, I am crossing my fingers though...

Can you post those spy pics you were talking about of the 4Runner?

kdhspyder

I was thinking that the FJ might do the job that the 4Runner originally had, be the basic offroad vehicle for enthusiasts. But the $Runner has such a great name and history over the last 15-20 yrs that it's hard not to continue it. It does seem to be getting awfully crowded in this category.

However with the Explorer leaving ( going to crossover structure ), Pathfinder leaving ( also going crossover ) and the lambda crossovers pushing the Blazer and Envoy out the door then maybe being the only (?) real truck-based midsizer isn't a bad thing. Now if they bring the diesel version that the rest of the world gets here soon that will be a big benefit.

nippononly

Nissan's lineup is also getting rather crowded: I cannot see the point in having a crossover Pathfinder, a Murano, AND a Rogue. Why? But of course, relative to 4Runner, don't forget that the XTerra will remain, a direct competitor if you can forgive the small size disparity.

I do think Toyota should choose between FJ and 4Runner when it is time to update those two, and with the long lineage of the 4Runner, I hope it is the Runner they choose. Maybe they could go back to offering 2- and 4-door versions like in the early days. The 2-door could be more basic and geared more to offroading and lower price for the crowd that buys FJ now.

And Toyota should definitely have a diesel for ALL its truck-based models ASAP.

bumpy

I cannot see the point in having a crossover Pathfinder, a Murano, AND a Rogue.

Well, the Rogue is a compact crossover (built off the Sentra platform) while the Murano is midsize FWD and the Pathfinder will stay RWD I presume (it was unibody once before).

anythngbutgm

is pretty tight on cargo space, well below the CRV, RAV4 and just a hair more than the Saturn Vue.

link title

The Murano matches the T/H in cargo space so there appears to be plenty of room for an even larger crossover (Pathfinder).

otto8

Lots of body cracking and bending on the fj-s........................
The word is getting around and the off road crowd is avoiding the fj
like the plague and chalking it up as another yuppie mommy grocery
getter....................................

otto8

ruking1

..."chalking it up as another yuppie mommy grocery
getter.................................... "...

I came to that conclusion reading the specifications and write ups. The local dealership look didn't alter that view. Why did it take the off roaders so long to figure that one out? One feature that was almost appealing was the manual transmission option. Another was (since I drove a 1974 TLC (new)) it captured the so called "retro feel".

otto8

I wonder if the fj-s body and the tundras tailgate are made of the same
tinfoil?

ruking1

Toyota for a long time has put a first priority emphasis on using the "common parts bin" approach when at all possible.

louiswei

Motor Trend awarded its 2008 Truck of the Year award, the last of its three yearly awards, to the Toyota Tundra today. New for the 2007 model year, the Tundra beat out the Chevy Silverado HD, GMC Sierra HD and Ford's line of F-250, -350 and -450 Super Duty trucks. What's interesting about MT's TOTY competition is that because these trucks have such a wide range of capabilities and purposes, they are not pitted against each other, bur rather against specific criteria determined by the magazine's editors. Each is scored in the areas of "superiority", "value", and "significance". They use this strategy in both the Car OTY and SUV OTY award competitions, as well.

Source: Auto Blog

Good job Toyota, now let's hope the second year for the new Tundra will go by less eventful than the first.

Good truck no doubt.

louiswei

Don't you think it's probably time to change the title of this board to "Toyota in 2008"?

stever

Good idea. :shades:

nippononly

Motor Trend always does this: they give awards weighted too heavily to what they deem "significance". Tundra may be Toyota's first full-size truck, but I don't think there is much evidence or expectation that it will ever cause any discomfort for GM or Ford, and as such, I wonder why it's so "significant" to MT's editors...

louiswei

Uh...how about because there is basically not another "truck" that is as "significant' as the Tundra in 2007? Basically to qualify for MT's TOTY award, the truck has to to be brand new for MY 2007 so that means the Silverado, F150, Ram and Sierra are automatically out. Also, besides Tundra, I really don't see any new SUV in 2007 that's significant enough to challenge the Tundra.

By the way, I think Tundra is the first ever full size truck from a foreign brand to lead another domestic truck (Sierra) in sales chart. If that's not significant enough then I don't know what is.