Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "They should also combine the 4Runner and FJ Cruiser to make it a niche product for the true off-roaders. Call it whatever they want but I like the sound of "FJ Runner"."

    Not a bad idea, but it needs to be a bit smaller than the existing models, especially in width. Reduce weight and size some, figure out how to use the existing Tacoma platform to produce it, and bingo! It has to be designed to be profitable in small volumes because they won't sell a ton of these with the gas prices now. If they can find a way to slot in a diesel engine they will be using in the Tundra anyway, so much the better. With a less gas-guzzling powertrain option, they may sell more.

    Oh, and let's find a better name for a larger car-based 7-seater than "Highlander XL"!! :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Oh, and let's find a better name for a larger car-based 7-seater than "Highlander XL"!!

    To follow the tradition Toyota should just call it "7Seater" in order to honor the 4Runner... :P

    I think the current gen 4Runner is a pretty decent size for the "FJ Runner". All Toyota needs to do is to make it a little bit shorter (doesn't need the 3rd row) with less luxurious features and give it a true off-roading look (not the FJ cartoonish look) with a diesel engine then they have a winner.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    And it should have four full-size doors: look at the old Cherokee, the old S-10 Blazer, the new Wrangler Unlimited, heck the old 4Runner itself up until the 2-door got killed. Sales of this type of vehicle are WAY higher when it has four doors rather than two.

    I hate the name 7Seater, BTW. :-P

    IIRC the 4Runner name was a reference to its 4WD capabilities, not the fact that it seated 4.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    bound to get the pro-domestic protectionists up in arms once more:

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080402/FREE/199919373/1530/- FREE

    Seems Jim Press stated during an interview that Toyota was 100% subsidized by the Japanese government in developing the battery and hybrid systems in the Prius.

    Despite the PR war brewing over this, I would say he is a very credible source of information even though he is now batting for the opposing team. I wonder if Honda was subsidized to the same extent.

    I also wonder if this will be the year they finally sell 200K Priuses in 12 months...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Big deal. Wish our government would do the same to help out the domestics develop a true hybrid to compete with the Prius.

    I don't think Toyota has the capacity to build 200k Prius in one year.
    Mack :shades:
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Oh I'm sure they do, mack. They sold more than 200K globally last year, and 181K just here in the U.S. alone.

    But where you say big deal, I think the pro-domestic folks will see another compelling reason that the feds should be helping out the Detroit automakers a lot more than they do.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    What I meant was that the US should do the same to help out the domestics. Although I believe 100% in the product I sell I still feel bad for the big three mainly due to the friends I have in Michigan that have lost their jobs and are struggling. I would love for the US automotive industry to be number one again.
    Mack
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Toyota is flat out saying "No we were not subsidized."

    Looks like the first one to produce "proof documents" will win this argument.

    Like another poster, if this is true, GOOD FOR the Japanese government for stepping up and putting money toward a worthy technology.

    Too bad the USA has only the failed EV-1 to show for our tax efforts.
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    And I thought this dude is a cream of the crop CEO. Mouthing off comments like this on your old boss serves his current employer no benefits whatever. Is this going to increase chrysler's sales?

    Say if it's true, it's a new technology bankrolled by the japanese govt on their own dime. They picked toyota cause they also have the manpower to do the R&D and the best chance to bring it to fruitation. They knew oil supply is gonna be tight down the road so this is one of the projects the govt is willing to pay for.

    On the other hand, I don't think the big 3 ask the govt to bankrolled any R&D projects to develop anything, as long as CAFE doesn't increase, the money will keep coming in for the big 3 on sales of suvs.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Mack, they just announced this week that next year they are going to jump Prius production by 60% up to 400K+ units annually. That means that this year they must be planning on building 250K units at least. That's for worldwide production/sales.

    I also would doubt that we will see the bulk of these new units next year simply because the US$ is soooo weak and probably will be weaker yet at that time. Three years ago a $25000 Prius could be converted to about 3,000,000 JY. Then May last year they dropped the sticker price fby $600 to $2000 then the US$ has gone into freefall. Now that $25000 Prius would sticker for about $24000 on average but it would convert only to 2,500,000 JY. On paper they've lost half a million yen per unit.

    That's not much of an incentive to increase sales here. Singapore, Hong Kong, JDM, China and Europe are all much more attractive...if the demand is there.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I don't have any other infor than what I've read here and what I've seen of businesses here and abroad but if the Japanese govt did 'assist' in the development of hybrid technology I'd guess it took the form of something like the loan guarantee made to Chrysler 30 yrs ago. The Feds didn't supply the funds they just 'guaranteed' the lenders wouldn't lose anything. Bear Stearns 1980.

    When largesse of this type is made available then companies don't often let their competitors feed at the trough alone. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Honda also took advantage in order to minimize its risks. Nissan apparently had no use for such outlandish schemes and declined to play.

    Again supposition but I'd think that Toyota as the largest with the largest staff to be employed probably got the largest amount of 'guarantees'. Here's what's really really interesting...Ford did the same work coming to the same conclusions and the same technology as Toyota but apparently on its own. Nice job Ford.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "And I thought this dude is a cream of the crop CEO"

    So did I. I still wonder how much Chrysler paid him to leave Toyota. I think it was a bad move for him but not knowing what type of compensation he got is hard to tell. I bet his wife who is Japanese was not happy with him leaving Toyota.
    Mack :shades:
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Well, he wasn't "mouthing off" according to the article, it was mentioned as context for something else they were discussing. And he was at the end of his career - 37 years in! I am sure he wants a few years of American-style CEO pay and retirement bennies, which will be at ten times the rate he would have got from Toyota, and then he will leave Chrysler about where he found it and enjoy his retirement. Shrewd, if a little disloyal to Toyota.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    You might want to check that wife issue. It may be why he was kicked upstairs then took mega-millions to jump ship. Just rumors though [elliott spitzer].
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Too bad the USA has only the failed EV-1 to show for our tax efforts.

    The $2billion we the tax payers gave to the automakers to come up with viable EVs was in direct response to the FAILED CARB mandate. One thing that did come of it was the NiMH battery that is in Every hybrid on the road. I doubt that the Japanese government dumped $2billion into hybrid development. I did read something way back that Toyota tried getting some of that US giveaway and was turned down. They then petitioned their government and got money for R&D. I am sure Jim Press knows more of the details.

    I am curious why it would be considered disloyal. If the government is subsidizing any industry it should be common knowledge. Not all secretive as it is in Japan. If the Japanese did in fact subsidize the Prius it would be illegal to sell at a discount in the USA as they supposedly did with the first Prius sold here. Goes against our Fair Trade agreements.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Geeze, the Prius is already too expensive for what you get. Imagine how much one would be if Toyota didn't dump them on our market!
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    "Dump them on our market" - Bizarre thought! And then sell them at a premium over sticker price? Loose thread here I think.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    We should remember that Japan approaches business on a more rational, non ideological basis than the US. Hence the term "Japan Incorporated" from the 80's which has been undermined to an extent by the West, but still dominates R&D as well as export policy. US Auto failure lies at the feet of an entrenched and blindered management. This same phenomonon is also reflected in the decline of the US as a trusted and influential power in foreign affairs and economic and trade policy. Old men living in the dead past.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The original Prius was sold below cost to get them on the US market. I was offered one of the first to hit San Diego at $20k. I would have bought it for my wife if she liked it. The selling point for me was the 8 year 100k mile bumper to bumper warranty. That was part of the price. The sales manager told me that the Prius cost Toyota $35k to build. Of course you know what they say about car salesmen. The first LS400s were sold at a loss from what I am told. Seems hard to believe when my wife paid $41k cash for hers in 1989.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Actually it's way underpriced as compared to most Lexus' or BMW's that also have leather and navigation systems..LOL.

    You can never recover the luxo-premium with those vehicles. ;)
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    They lied to you about the warranty /The 8 year 100k mile warranty covered the electric motor, converter, generator, and battery pack. The bumper to bumper is only 3year 36k.
    Mack
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The RAV is allegedly going to get an updated 4c in the Fall... 2.7L? Production begins in Canada.
    There allegedly is going to be a new 4c Highlander added to the mix.... 2.7L also? Tupelo production begins in the near future.
    These two will be in addition to the already announced Venza with the 2.7L I4.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Bob, you forgot to mention the Toyota Mackmobile due out in the fall with the 2.7L engine also. This is a combination truck/suv/minivan/sports sedan. It will also be available in a Hybrid for the environmental and fuel concerned drivers. Here's a sneak peek at it while undergoing heat stress tests in the Mojave desert.

    image
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Where is the Venza Hybrid. I thought Toyota was the leader in Hybrid technology. They were going to make the Hybrid system available in all their vehicles. I want a Hybrid 4 cyl Venza or RAV (not a 6cyl Hybrid HL). If they wait too long, I'll start looking elsewhere. I currently own a Camry Hybrid. Love the vehicle and gas mileage. However, I need and want more trunk space (all wheel drive would be nice as well).
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "If they wait too long, I'll start looking elsewhere. I currently own a Camry Hybrid."

    Where else are you going to look? Toyota's Hybrid technology is on the cutting edge and way ahead of the rest of the pack.
    Mack
    While you wait for a Hybrid Venza you may want to look at one of these:

    image :shades:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Since they almost never say anything about what's upcoming until it's just about here I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't hear anything about a hybrid Venza, Sienna, RAV, Avalon until just before launch.

    Obviously the HSD could be dropped into any of these with only moderate effort.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    RAV was not designed with HSD in mind.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    "Toyota's Hybrid technology is on the cutting edge and way ahead of the rest of the pack."

    I agree. However, other manufacturers appear to be trying very hard to catch and even beat them. In my opinion Toyota should make the 4cyl Hybrid available in the RAV or the upcoming Venza. There aren't enough 4cyl Hybrids on the market.

    As far as a replacement. The HL is too big. The RAV does not have it (nor will it be offered in the current model). I'm hoping for the Venza. If not, the Escape Hybrid might be an option (at least I'm familiar with the system).

    I get the feeling that Toyota is waiting for the Lithium battery issues to be rectified before they make the Hybrid system available on more models.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "I get the feeling that Toyota is waiting for the Lithium battery issues to be rectified before they make the Hybrid system available on more models. "

    The batteries used now are Nickel-Metal hydride not Lithium.
    Mack :shades:
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    I realize that. Other than size and weight, Nickel-Metal seem to work well and are durable. That's why I said "waiting on Lithium battery issues to be rectified". I should have said "working on solving" Lithium battery issues (durability and fires?). That would bring it to another level. That's just my opinion.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Ok. I get you. :) From what I've read the Lithium concerns are environmental.
    Mack
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I read once that Toyota is going to use the Prius as the primary launch platform for all its high-tech geegaws.

    The CVT, the THS 1 & 2, HSD, SKS, Bluetooth, etc, etc. I agree that there are far to few 4c hybrids available from them now. The Venza as a 'Camry wagon' or 'small Highlander' should be a natural for a 4c+HSD option.

    Ditto the RAV. Ahhh but here we run into one of my favorite conspiracy theories. It's not a conspiracy per se but I do think that all the hybrid makers are playing nice and being gentlemanly as they try to expand the market for hybrids.
    Toyota doesn't compete directly versus the FEH because it has the HH.. and vice versa.
    Ford doesn't compete vs the TCH
    Toyota doesn't compete vs the Civic or new small hybrid ( yet )
    None of the 4 competes against GM in heavy vehicles
    GM doesn't compete in midsized vehicles.

    GM, Ford and Toyota are all humping hybrids in NA in favor of the new clean diesels. Coincidences? I don't buy coincidences in big business. Smart cooperation is more likely IMO.

    So why hasn't Toyota come out with more hybrids as it implied it would several years ago? It's letting the others catch up so to speak in order to reach a wider buying public. It is not intruding on the other's respective turfs. 5 companies ( with Nissan ) pushing a variety of vehicles to the NA public is a lot easier than two do all the work and fighting 100 years of inertia.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Yep, durability and the ability to offer a warranty similar to the current NiMH batteries. Imagine if GM comes out with this wonderful new technology in the Volt but has to limit the battery warranty to 5 yrs.

    If Toyota can't get the PHEV Li-ion batteries to be a reliable as the current ones in the Prius, TCH and HH then it will have a hell of a time trying to get people to sign on in large volumes.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't think CARB will let GM off the 10 year warranty on the Volt. I believe that is the only way they can get the AT-PZEV emissions rating. Buying a car that has no history without a long warranty would be mighty risky business.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    it Honda that just announced that it sees the future of hybrids as NiMH, not Li-Ion, for the time being? And rumors have already been circulating for some months that the next-gen Prius will still use NiMH batteries, as Toyota cannot ready an acceptable Li-Ion battery pack in time to release the new model next year. And it doesn't want to let Volt beat it to market with the first plug-in.

    I like kdh's conspiracy theory, although I don't really believe it is a conspiracy. But I DO think it would be just like Toyota to hang back and let other automakers join it in the effort to bring wide acceptance of hybrids to the marketplace. If you look at the sales, it is pretty much all Toyota right now in the hybrid arena, with maybe 5% each from the Big 2 and 10% from Honda. Toyota wants to be very careful not to orphan this technology, in a scenario where everybody else decides they can't compete and leaves Toyota to be the only one in hybrids.

    But OTOH, Toyota is breaking its previous promise right now, IMO. There need to be more hybrid Toyota models, like yesterday. And by that I mean more really economical ones, not V-6 and V-8 hybrids that can't break the 30 mpg mark (or in the case of the Lexus V-8, can't break the TWENTY MPG mark!)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • otto8otto8 Member Posts: 116
    500,000 + matrix, corollas and 100k vibes being recalled for breaking
    windows..................
    Funny they are built in different plants.......One in Canada (vin #2) the
    other in mexico (vin #3 on vibes), corollas come from Cali.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/09/recall-watch-toyota-gm-recalling-660-000-vehi- cles-for-window-d/

    A broken window bolt gets a recall but rotted frames in a tacoma get
    a service adjustment repair????????????? :lemon:
  • otto8otto8 Member Posts: 116
    image
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    And, what's your point?
  • otto8otto8 Member Posts: 116
    Put down the koolaid and remove blinders and ask if
    they have fixed the 600,000 sienna doors that have been
    falling off yet?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Hey, looks like someone wants to play Name That Recall!!

    Let's see, on March 14th, we had
    "GM recalls 207,000 Buicks, Pontiacs"...seems there were some fires, a few people got hurt too, uh oh...

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23631170/

    That was March 14th.

    On February 13th, we had
    "GM to recall 180,000+ Chevy HHRs
    Models without side-mounted airbags fail to meet federal side-impact standards."

    for unsafe HHRs.

    On the Ford side, we find
    "Ford re-recalling 225,000 vehicles"...seems the fire problem related to those faulty cruise control switches just WILL NOT go away, despite recalling 9.5 MILLION trucks in the last 9 years....

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/01/autos/ford_wiring_recall/index.htm

    Then we have
    "Ford Recalls 180,000 Vehicles"
    Seems this one is for vehicles with faulty door handles and fuel hoses. Both Ford recalls were in February.

    My oh my, the name that recall game is such a delicious pursuit for a bright Sunday morning! :-)

    These are just the recall results I could find in two quick minutes of Googling and taking the top two results. Recalls are RIFE in the industry these days. Now more intriguing to me is the new Ford TV ads trumpeting the fact that some survey has shown that Ford's quality is now up to the level of Toyota. I wonder if folks will hear this message and stop Ford's sales freefall. It's not going to be a good year in the U.S. for any of the automakers, no matter what.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Vibes built in Mexico?? Better check your source. They are built in California. Corollas are built in CA and Canada, and Matrix comes from Canada.

    As always, I wish all automakers good luck - we will all benefit. ;)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    How much time should I spend on Google looking for Toyota's recalls? Haven't they had a rapid increase?

    OOTH if you never admit to a problem and do a recall,then it's not a RECALL? Aaaah, the solution. Don't do recalls to keep the numbers down.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    > I wish all automakers good luck - we will all benefit.

    Now that's a good approach to the reality that all cars may have problems.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    that the fans and the detractors will certainly view differently:

    "Toyota will buy back rusted Tacomas"

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/ANA06/804140348/1078- -

    Seems Tacomas sold in the Midwest between 1995 and 2000 have rusted more than they should. Toyota blames it on "anti-corrosion undercoating (that) was inadequate for conditions in the Midwest.". They claim the steel used was fine.

    I thought Toyota had put this problem behind them in the 70s, certainly by the 80s.

    Now Toyota IS standing behind its customers: it has extended the rust warranty to 15 years for all Tacomas affected, and is bringing all the affected trucks in for repair, if possible, or repurchase at 150% of KBB "excellent" value if not. That's pretty strong support for your customers in the auto biz, but one would hope that such a problem would not exist in the first place....such will be the difference of opinion between the Toyota fans and anti-fans, I would guess...

    BTW, the story also mentions that Tacoma sales are down 13% for the year so far, and Tundra sales are running well below the annualized rate of 200K hoped for.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "BTW, the story also mentions that Tacoma sales are down 13% for the year so far, and Tundra sales are running well below the annualized rate of 200K hoped for."

    That's nothing new, sales are down for all manufacturers.
    Mack
  • otto8otto8 Member Posts: 116
    image
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Didn't realize that Toyota had an OEM dumptruck option. :blush:
  • otto8otto8 Member Posts: 116
    image
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Those will both totally buff out.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    Those are obviously customer's fault. They used the wrong oil in the truck motor.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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