Toyota on the mend?

gagrice

So how many people do you think they will lay off in Princeton and San Antonio? Will they get severance pay that will carry them over from August to November?

nippononly

From what I heard, Princeton won't require layoffs, they will just shift over to making Highlanders as part of their mix.

And San Antonio should end up with the same amount of business as before, since it will now be the sole production location for big Toyota trucks.

What this means is Toyota WON'T have to find someplace new to build Prius in North America. That place has now been found, at the new plant going up in Tupelo.

nwng

for such a slim margin product, I thought yota might want to produce it here for the NA market to avoid currency flucucation. If they believe oil will be at $4/gal and above for the foreseeable future, and they believe enough to set up a prius plant here, then yaris, xb, xd market would also grow exponentially.

larsb

One of your longstanding beefs about hybrids is going away Gary:

Quoting Gary:

"If it's not CLEAN ENOUGH TO BUILD IT HERE, THEY SHOULD NOT SELL IT HERE !!"

There's one less thing to dislike about the hybrids fer ya Garr-Berr !!!

lemko

...will the price come down? My beef is that the car, (despite being fierociously dorky-looking) is that it's quite expensive for what you get. I believe Honda is trying to develop a sub-$20K hybrid and get hybrids into the hands of people who really need the fuel savings.

kdhspyder

I think ( my own opinion ) that all the hybrid makers have an 'understanding' amongst themselves not to get too agressive on each other's turf.
Honda has the smaller less costly hybrids to itself.
Toyota and Ford share the midsized hybrids but they don't compete.
GM has the large hybrids all to itself.

I also think that this may be 'sunsetted' after 10 years now that hybrids are more and more accepted by the public. Honda is coming out with more, Ford has the Fusion hybrid waiting, GM has the 2-Modes ready apparently for the Aura and Malibu and Toyota is coming out with a whole family of Prius' including smaller versions ( Honda territory ).

2010 ( hmmmm 10 yrs ) will be a very very interesting year.

gagrice

Now that you bring it up. Will Toyota build the batteries here? Will they build the electric motor here? I didn't think so. Assembling a bunch of parts made in third World countries is NOT BUILDING A HYBRID here.

gagrice

Which brings up an interesting point. CA will not allow electricity into our grid that is produced with coal. Why do they allow cars with parts that are produced with polluting coal?

210delray

How does CA know the electricity coming from other states is produced from coal? It's not like electrons have any little flags on them.

larsb

Now you change your tune to say, "I meant building EVERY PART here" eh?

If this is true, Gary, and you said this:

"Assembling a bunch of parts made in third World countries is NOT BUILDING A HYBRID here."

Then there aren't any cars "built" in America at all, anywhere.

Every car "built" here has parts made in third world countries.

mcdawgg

One example of a mostly North American car - Toyota Camry - 75% NA part content, built in Kentucky.

larsb

Yep. Good example.

You would be hard-pressed to find a car "assembled" in America that has NO parts made in a "third world country" as Gary put it.

gagrice

Now you change your tune to say, "I meant building EVERY PART here" eh?

You know very well I have always felt the NiMH battery was a gross polluter in the manufacturing. I do not believe the EPA would allow them to be built here. That is my contention and has been my belief since the whole hybrid business got going. So my question stands if CARB is so environmentally astute why do they allow the hybrids with polluting batteries into the state? Parts that are built elsewhere for cost constraints are not the same as parts that pollute in the MFG process.

gagrice

It looks like it is a ban on any future purchases of power.

In a boost for renewable energy companies, the California Public Utilities Commission today effectively banned long-term purchases of "dirty" electricity produced by coal-fired power plants as part of the state's fight against global warming. Most California power plants operate on lower-polluting natural gas

stever

"Continuing to grow to meet demand, Cobasys has dedicated personnel and facilities in the United States to design, engineer, prototype, manufacture, assemble, and test energy systems."

Cobasys

It looks like they make NiMH and Li-Ion systems in Ohio.

Some wags say because Chevron has a controlling interest in Cobasys, there's been no hurry on the firm to expand production. Their patent portfolio is impressive.

Other wags say that the NiMH patents will expire in 2011 at which point Toyota and Panasonic will really boost production. But Li-On may be mainstream choice by then.

gagrice

It sure looks like they manufacture NiMH there in Ohio. Amazing that they have gotten away with dumping all that pollution into the streams and rivers in that state. :shades:

stever

I hear that the rivers in Ohio don't even catch on fire anymore.

But you'll blame the EPA for shutting down that tourist attraction too. :P

uplanderguy

How about my new Chevy Cobalt XFE? Assembled in Lordstown, OH with 80% NA parts content. And it's one of the lowest-priced cars out there. The Lordstown plant is adding a third shift to build them 24 hrs. a day.

Bill

mackabee

And of that 80% I bet 45% is from Canada.

:shades:

uplanderguy

Whatever it may be, it beats most every other vehicle out there. And it's a very inexpensive car to boot. I really enjoy it. Sticker $15K; only options are ABS, side molding and floor mats, satellite radio standard, 36 highway MPG (best in class), had a $3k rebate and I had $2k on my GM card, plus got $2,400 trade on my old '02 Cavalier with 112K miles, plus they had to drive five hours to get it (was only in the other dealer's inventory eight days)....I paid $8,600 out-the-door with taxes and including the dealer's stupid $250 doc fee. I'm very, very pleased with it.

I like the fact that it is from a U.S.-based company and was assembled thirty miles down the road, too, although those things weren't the major purchase decision-makers...I think those are important though. I know most folks scoff at that anymore. I'm already expecting a rude comment on this board or two.

Bill

kdhspyder

Misclicked and thought this was the 'Cobalt Buying Experiences' or 'New Cobalt Owners Give Us Your Report'

larsb

Gary says, "Amazing that they have gotten away with dumping all that pollution into the streams and rivers in that state."

That's pretty serious accusation Gary.

I'd venture to say that the local authorities, the EPA and OSHA have programs which confirm that companies do not pollute the streams and rivers NEARLY as much as you seem to intimate.

I work for a furniture manufacturing company, and our emissions and pollution levels are CLOSELY monitored by the county and OSHA.

I'm sure Ohio has a similar system in place.

mackabee

Congrats! if you're happy with the deal and most important, the car then that's all that really matters.

Mack

gagrice

I work for a furniture manufacturing company, and our emissions and pollution levels are CLOSELY monitored by the county and OSHA.

This has nothing to do with Toyota. However you make an interesting point. The quality finishes needed on good furniture and cabinets cannot be applied in California. So we get cabinets manufactured in other states. It has just about wiped out the custom cabinet business. A few small operators get the finishes from out of state. One such person speaks out:

I've mentioned before how many of my favorite wood finishes have been banned (I'm a woodworker). Last year, I found the shelves empty of Jasco Wood Filler, EVERY good Exterior Spar Varnish is gone (a LOT of outdoor and boat woodwork is going to be ruined)....

Exterior Oil-Based Polyurethane: GONE.

Interior Oil-Based Polyurethane: GONE.

Oil-based Enamel: GONE:

Brushing Lacquer (like Deft Wood Finish, a beautiful wood finish): GONE.

The supposed problem is VOCs (Volatile Organic Components) but come on, this is getting ridiculous. These guys are banning everything in sight!

The culprit is the Air Quality Management District here in CA, who I believe have outlawed so much stuff that they've run out of stuff to outlaw.

imidazol97

Doesn't it give you a nice warm chill to realize how they are taking care of you? And you shared them with us in Congress in the form of Pelosi, Boxer, Reid, to ply their skills there to legislation. And to stall other legislation to avoid getting anything done that the current president might get credit for doing!!! :sick: :shades:

nippononly

Geez, gagrice, it seems like your hatred of CARB and various air quality management districts is consuming your life.

Certainly those agencies bear only the most tangential relevance to a discussion of Toyota in 2008.

gagrice

Geez, gagrice, it seems like your hatred of CARB and various air quality management districts is consuming your life.

Actually it has little bearing on my lifestyle. It does make it difficult for those trying to make a living in CA. It is probably why Toyota told Ahnold not only NO, but Hell NO to building a Prius factory in CA. CA is no longer on any list for any sane manufacturing company. It would be best to just build a glass dome over the cities and only allow people to ride bicycles. Of course "NO" Mexican food as we all know what pollutant that can cause while riding a bike.

210delray

Reid is a senator from Nevada.

lemko

Geeze, all I have to do is look at the top surfaces of my 1988 Buick Park Avenue to realize the consequences of banning good solvent-based auto finishes! Thanks a lot eco-weenies! I hope you choke on your granola bars and your Birkenstocks give you splinters!

kenym

I'm already expecting a rude comment on this board or two.

I am not sure why you posted this post on the Corolla forum. :confuse:
But here is my response

We purchased a 2006 Corolla S ( also built in this country ) about a month before our son purchased a 2006 Cobalt LT 4D for about the same price ( within a couple hundred dollars ). We have had zero problems with our Corolla. However our son has had problems from the start with the brakes, air conditioning ( recharged than replaced ), transmission and a lot of rattles and smaller problems. We have approximately the same millage, and according to the Kelley Blue Book our Corolla is worth about $12,800 on trade in and our sons Cobalt is worth about $10,300 in trade in.

You think if I posted this in the Cobalt forum I would receive rude comments. :shades:

uplanderguy

I guess I've seen before, that anyone extolling a virtue or two of a domestic-engineered, assembled car with high NA parts content on a Toyota or Honda board has been scoffed at.

The only reason I posted here at all was to counter the person's quote about the 75% NA content of Camrys...I could post a car with a higher NA parts content that is a much less-expensive car, even. Plus, just to be factual, there is data out there recently that shows that Camrys are down to 65% NA parts content this year, in part due to the Solara which is thrown into Camry sales by Toyota themselves.

To the poster whose Corolla is superior to their son's '06 Cobalt, I'm glad you are enjoying your Corolla. I am always amazed at how many folks on Edmunds' forums who enjoy their imports always know people who have had trans, engine, problems, etc. etc. etc. with their new or very-recent (fill in the blank Big 3 car). I put over 100K miles on my last two Cavaliers each and my Corsica before that. Zero engine or trans problems...and I mean zero. Great, nearby local dealer service and dealers in any town if need be (I haven't). And the cars still looked and drove well (even my much-younger brother-in-law commented how surprised he was at that). Yes, I am religious about regular maintenance.

I might add that the Cobalt is rated more reliable in the vaunted Consumer Reports surveys than the latest edition of the V6 Camry.

What's truly ironic is that today I took my Cobalt in for body work required after an accident (my fault). I received an '09 Corolla with 379 miles as a rental. I would say it is a slightly-larger car than a Cobalt. But since it's an '09 Corolla, I expected some sort of epiphany. It's OK. To my eyes, some of the styling features outside (grille) and shapes of the instruments and dash are goofy, but hey, that's me. The car goes to the right when you hold the steering wheel straight. I noticed that immediately. I miss the satellite radio.

That's the last thing I have to say on the matter.

Bill

gagrice

I miss the satellite radio.

Toyota has totally missed the mark on Satellite radio. When it is offered it costs twice what the Big 3 charge for the option. It is not even an after market option for my 2007 Sequoia Limited. Sales said it was. So innocently I believed them. This is the only NAV I have had in a vehicle and I am not the least bit impressed. The car runs and drives better than my previous GMC. The fit and finish is also better than my 05 GMC.

Just goes to show, nothing is perfect.

mackabee

"The car goes to the right when you hold the steering wheel straight. I noticed that immediately. I miss the satellite radio. "

So it probably needs air in one of the front tires. No big deal. As far as the satellite radio, you can get it in any Corolla as an option. You are going to find the car is more comfortable than your Cobalt and safer too. But like I said if you are happy, that's all that matters.
Mack

imidazol97

It's all in the mindset. Some people with foreign brand cars don't want to admit they have problems too. One guy had even said he'd never had any trouble with his (brand removed because that is not the point). But it turned out the transmission had been replaced by &*#(@ so he felt that didn't count!!!

Cars have problems. Cars require maintenance. There are differences in how companies stand behind problems that develop outside warranty period. That can leave a bad taste if they don't cover something that they could. Some car brands have been very good beyond the call of duty about outside coverage. And then again some cars have had recent difficulties with new features.

Some car companies have gone so far as to somehow be involved with people trying to "erase" complaints about problems on the internet.

I have an opportunity to win a foreign brand car in a raffle. You bet I'm buying several tickets. Another area nonprofit is raffling an American brand car of the same compact size; I wanted to buy some tonight but I didn't get back to the car show where they had a table a few weeks back. If someone were raffling a VW or BMW I'd even buy those tickets. If a car has a reputation for some known problems, I can still enjoy the car.

So enjoy your cars and quit trying to convince everyone else yours is perfect. Let them be happy to think it's just close to perfect. Go enjoy your car.

gagrice

remedial training time:

Methane (CH4) is a greenhouse gas that remains in the atmosphere for approximately 9-15 years. Methane is over 20 times more effective in trapping heat in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide (CO2) over a 100-year period and is emitted from a variety of natural and human-influenced sources.

You would not want that in your domed pollution free city. Would you?

I don't think Toyota drivers are interested in giving up their car to live in a sterile environment created in CA. I will transfer this to the proper thread.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0fc7a5/3089

nippononly

it looks like they are going to be successful in becoming the largest automaker in the world, by sales:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080723/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_toyota_sales

4.8 million sales worldwide for the first six months this year, 4.5 million for GM. GM, down 3% overall, Toyota, up 2%.

mackabee

That's old news. Toyota beat GM in sales last year. The story was quickly pulled by the press to suppress anti-Japanese sentiments from the American consumer.
:shades:

nippononly

Well, this is official. Whatever happened last year is unofficial at this point. And Toyota beating GM by more than half a million vehicles per year is not old news, but in fact is fairly significant. They are not just edging past, they are blowing on by GM like a bullet train.

iluvmysephia1

notorious engine sludge debacle. And the sharp increase in TSB's and recalls and production screw-ups, and the thought of buying a new Toyota loses some sheen.

For me, it's still their rather mundane styling that turns me off from considering them.

There is talk of a new Toyota small sporty coupe for around $18,000 that sounds like something actually of interest produced by Toyota. I am a Scion fan, though that interest has turned rather lukewarm in the past year and a half. I don't like the styling of the new xB nor of the xA replacement, the xD. But this sketch of this new coupe looked pretty good, pricing is right, and although I am not interested in buying one because I prefer a 4-door, it shows that Toyota is interested in snagging the youthful market that wants good fuel economy and good performance. With the legendary Toyota resale hold value, I would take a good look at this new sports coupe coming out in 2009, if a coupe was what I wanted. Also, the new Kia Forte Koup and the new Genesis Coupe from Hyundai are good looking new coupes.

Nissan is feverishly working on theirs to beat Toyota to the punch, their new 240SX successor. So things are looking up, perhaps the spike in gas prices will actually perk things up in the industry.

To see even a small decrease in mundane looking domestic SUV's and pick-em-up trucks is a huge step for mankind alone.

nippononly

You and I are on the same page, iluv. Toyota of the 00s is not the Toyota of the 80s and 90s. And Scion was once interesting, no longer is since New Years 2007. And the upcoming coupe does look promising, but it will face stiff competition: VW is planning a new mid-engine coupe, sort of a renaissance of the IROC, Nissan has its 240SX successor as you mentioned, Honda is bringing back the CRX. It's kinda funny how the oldies always seem to come back around again, eh?

And while the Genesis will be a BIG coupe, the Kia Koup and the next-gen Tiburon will be more on a par with the planned coupes mentioned above, and should provide even more competition in this segment.

As for trucks, some of Toyota's models are reaching the end of their model cycle in the next year or two. I am waiting to see how many just get cancelled rather than designing a next generation.

iluvmysephia1

down the pipeline, Kia has been rumoured to be wanting to run their new Mojave pickup off of a production line somewhere, too. But, "somewhere" is the punchword. Apparently the new Georgia Kia plant will produce Forte's and possibly Mojave's, then I heard them retract the Mojave idea from the Georgia plant. I would build the Mojave in South Korea and export it to America, or just hold it back indefinitely, especially if gas prices stay well above $3.00/gal for RUG.

I know, nippononly, for small car fans this is an exciting time! It takes a gas crisis to give small car enthusiasts what they have been longing for, I guess.

Can't wait to see the new Honda CRX, with the CRX of the 80's still being talked well of today, Honda could score reasonably well with that new small rig, too.

louiswei

Let's see what are Toyota's plans in the near future:

Scion:

- Replacement for tC
- iQ, the Smart fighter (if Toyota prices this one around $6k then I'll definitely get one as my daily beater)

Toyota:

- New Prius in 2009 (rumored to come with LI batteries)
- A brand new hybrid model (rumored to be bigger than Prius)
- Five-door Yaris coming in late 2008
- Sub-$20k RWD coupe, so called the AE86 successor, is coming around 2010. This is a joint venture project between Toyota and Subaru and rumor has it that we will only be getting the Subaru version here in US
- The Venza
- Diesel Tundra/Sequoia

Lexus:

- A dedicated hybrid coming in late 2009 or early 2010 with LI batteries
- ISX50 coupe/HT convertible coming in late 2008 or early 2009
- Redesigned RX coming in 2009
- LF-A coming in 2010 (?)

iluvmysephia1

for only $6,000. If Toyota does, though, they'll sell stealthy numbers of them. I like the iQ design from the outside, though for my wife and I it won't work. I would believe something like $9,995 more for a price, is all.

"Sub-$20k RWD coupe, so called the AE86 successor, is coming around 2010. This is a joint venture project between Toyota and Subaru and rumor has it that we will only be getting the Subaru version here in US"

Ah-haaa....the AE86 is the one I was reading about in the car mag a few days ago. The one Nissan is driving theirselves bonkers over to beat to market with their 240SX successor. Yeah, Subaru and Toyota are collaborating on this new pup together and do make that 2010, not 2009 like I posted above. Didn't know they'd badge it a Subaru for the NA market, but it sounds plausable. Just sub-$20,000, eh?

It must've been the Nissan small sports coupe that will be priced in the $17,000-$18,000 range. Both of these coupes will create beaucoup interest in the car industry. There is a market there for these that these makers will cash in on well if they're good, but, as has been mentioned, Kia, Hyundai, Honda and others...besides the existing competition of the BMW Mini-Cooper and the SmartForSomeone, to just ponder upon two more mini-mites competing. They're big in my eyes because of the New World Order Ghastly Crunch, a product of Greed and World Growth demand.

Drive On!

gagrice

Sales through July were down for Toyota.

The Yaris as expected is selling well. The only gainers over last year in the big stuff are the largest SUVs. The Sequoia, Land Cruiser and LX570 all had solid gains over last year. Meaning the price of gas means little to those of US who want a large SUV.

gagrice

Lexus sales are way down and Mercedes is UP. Maybe shedding themselves of Chrysler gave MB new life. Has Lexus lost its luster? Looks like Acura is in the minus column big time also. Good to see Mercedes and Cadillac back on top where they belong.

nippononly

is in the middle of a product slump, especially in relation to Mercedes. The only new Lexi are the LX (a VERY low-volume vehicle) and the IS-F (another very low-volume vehicle). And the breadth of the Lexus line-up positively PALES when compared to that of Mercedes. But it's not all bread and roses for MB either - they can't sell enough of their new GLs and MLs, and the R-class was a sales failure right from the start.

Lexus needs to get its act together, offer more hybrid powertrains in the lower-end models, and refresh the ES with a car that is really desireable. IIRC, they said the next ES would appear in 2009 and would no longer be an all-but-clone of the Camry V-6. For one thing, they have promised RWD.

iluv: don't forget that the coupes that Nissan and Toyota/Subaru are working on are REAR WHEEL DRIVE. A very important distinction from all those other coupes you mentioned. And most of the other RWD coupes on the market - Genesis, Mustang, Challenger, and soon Camaro - are all large-engined heavy cars (or consume gas like them, a la RX8). The new coupes from N/T/S will be in a class by themselves, at least until VW gets THEIR act together. Honda should worry.

louiswei

Meaning the price of gas means little to those of US who want a large SUV.

I am sorry but I have to say this... you are just totally wrong.

The only reason why the Sequoia, LC and LX570 are selling well is because they are NEW! That's it. Once the newliness wears off the sales for those models will just be like any other BOF SUVs.

LX570 maybe would be immune to this since rich people will get the toys they want regardless how expensive gas price is.

louiswei

they said the next ES would appear in 2009 and would no longer be an all-but-clone of the Camry V-6

Do you have the source for that? I don't remember Lexus ever made a statement saying that the new ES will be coming in 2009. The current ES has only been on the market for 2 years, giving it a model change with such short time doesn't make any sense to me.

You are right on Lexus is in the middle of a product slump but helps are coming in the very near future...

IS - Will be getting a facelift this fall for the '09 model with coupe and HT 'vert coming in early 2009.

RX - Replacement is coming in 2009

Also, let's not forget about the dedicated Lexus hybrid that is going to debut in 2009 Detroit Auto show. It will go on sale either late 2009 or early 2010.

Lexus was expecting 2008 will be a slow year for them but I guess they didn't expect it'll be this worse due to the crazy oil price. In the long run, especially with Toyota/Lexus's dedication to hybrids I have more confidence in it than its competitors.

gagrice

Lexus was expecting 2008 will be a slow year for them but I guess they didn't expect it'll be this worse due to the crazy oil price

I have to disagree. Why would anyone buying a Lexus worry about the price of gas? That makes no sense. I think that Lexus has gone cheapo and those that can afford a luxury car are headed back to German engineering and Cadillac for the hard core domestic luxury buyers. Lexus overall has gone ugly the last several years. They are suffering from the Mercedes look of the 1990s. Bloated look would best describe most of the Lexus.

louiswei

Why would anyone buying a Lexus worry about the price of gas?

Just like how people buying Germans worry about the gas price. Last I checked, the so-called "German Engineering" isn't doing that great either. In case you don't know, many luxury car owners LEASE their cars instead of BUYING (BMW-60%, MB-55%, Lexus-42%) so that means those people are driving cars that cost more than they can ACTUALLY afford. I would think the sky rocketing gas price would hit those people fairly hard.

Also, let's not forget that Lexus sales is dropping with virtually no new product but BMW sales is dropping with couple high-profile brand new models (1-series and X6). Go figure...

I think that Lexus has gone cheapo

Strictly your opinion.

Have you actually compare the last and current gen IS? The last and current gen LS? The last and current gen GS? No you haven't. Say whatever you want about the LS460 but it is more luxurious and has a better interior than both the LS430 and your LS400. Lexus gone cheapo, yeah right...

Lexus overall has gone ugly the last several years.

Again, that's strictly your opinion.

I, for one, actually think that Lexuses were ugly before the new L-Finesse design, especially the old LS400 and the GS300/400.