Honda Accord (2003-2007) Maintenance and Repair

ray_h1

)) "I drive local only, 2 miles per day on average -- I live close to where I work, 1 mile away... ... Do you guys think there might be a problem?" ((

Yeah - your driving regimen is killing that engine. No doubt unintentionally, but assuredly nevertheless. (Honda engines are difficult to break, but you just may've hit on the right technique to accomplish it.) Insufficient warmup is pumping excess fuel from cold operation rich fuel/air mixture into the engine motor oil. Water condensation (a natural byproduct of gasoline combustion) is also excessive in the engine oil since the engine never warms sufficiently to vaporize and clear it and acid-forming contaminants out. Acids destroy bearings and additionally promote varnish and eventual engine destroying sludge development. You need to get that car out for a good romp (25 miles or more) weekly to clear those contaminants out of the oil. If doing so isn't feasible, then, regardless of the oil change light monitoring system Honda provided, your driving definitely qualifies as exceptionally severe service. In your current scenario, if you want that motor to remain serviceable, the oil and oil filter need to be changed often - no later than every three months with conventional oil or six months with a full synthetic oil. Alternatively, you should consider public transportation to work, or walking/bicycling if feasible in your climate.

Mr_Shiftright

FYI -- oil needs to heat up to about 160 degrees before it can burn off fuel residue absorbed into the oil from the cold start .

fated

Thank you all for the extremely useful information and advice. As you can tell, I know nothing about cars, so I make mistakes and often have naive questions.

To answer some of the posts here and under the other discussion, this is my first car ever. I graduated this summer and got myself a car. I tried walking to work for a month, but since I carry my laptop and lots of books with me every day, it is kind of tiresome. The winter in the Northeast would also make walking unpleasant, so I decided to buy a car. Love the car so far, but after reading all the replies, I am very worried.

As said above, work is about 1 mile away from home. Everything else is located in a 2.5 mile radius as well -- grocery shopping, mall, restaurants, friends, etc. So even during weekends, I don't have long trips to make either. Given my situation, what do you suggest that I do to remedy the problem? I don't want my new car to break down. Some of your words make me very worried.

Also, I understand now that I need to do maintenance very frequently. Even though my car monitoring system still logs 80% oil life, I will take it in for an oil change soon. I haven't had one yet. I was going to bring it in at the 6-month mark. Since I am going abroad for about 3 weeks in March, should I wait until I come back (early April), or should I have an oil change done before I leave (mid March)?

Again, many thanks for all your replies. I appreciate your opinions very much.

mrbill1957

I inherited an 88 Accord that spent most of it's earlier life being driven just as you describe in your situation. I've added 70,000 miles to the 60,000 that were on the car when I got it, and have had no engine related problems with it. I live in Wisconsin, so the car also has seen cold temperatures and made numerous short trips without fully warming up. The only failure the car saw because of short trips was the exhaust system had to be replaced more frequently since it rarely got hot enough to drive out moisture.

My opinion would be to do more frequent oil changes, and when you can, let the car warm up to help drive out condensation in the engine.

I don't think you will have any "breakdowns" due to your shorter trips, but the longevity of the car may not be as long as someone that drives farther distances. With the amount of driving you do, you will probably get tired of driving the same car long before you run into troubles due to your short trips. Your situation is not that unusual.

Enjoy the car,

Mrbill

chucko3

I might add the catalyst converter may be at risk too.

elroy5

I'm sure the car will be fine. I would do oil changes every 3,000 miles, or 6 months. Your mileage will not be great, but that would be the same for any car. Happy Hondaing

user777

you should consider, specially when the weather permits taking in some of that NE scenery with longer drives.

i am certain you'll soon experience a situation where the car won't start because the battery isn't being sufficiently recharged.

i think warming the car is a fine idea, but why not find various destinations outside of town and periodically visit them?

alamocity

Wow, with that short of a commute I think I would look into getting a Vespa, great way of getting around in town.

ray_h1

Yeah, but at 0º to -10º F., maybe colder, in northeast winters, on a Vespa? Freakin' brrrrr! It's +78º F. right now where I live - and I'm shivering just thinking about that scenario! (not to mention sliding in the slush on two wheels when winter begins giving 'way to spring...) All this brings up another aspect of driving a car back there - salted slush wreaking havoc with underbody sheet metal.

hondachik

I have an 2006 Accord EX-L 4 cyl automatic with 12,000-ish miles. This has happened several times: driving at 60-65 on the highway and suddenly additional gas is required to maintain speed. Can last from a few minutes to half hour or more. I had the MPG-meter on the display twice when this happened, and indeed the mileage went from 30-35 MPG to 15 MPG!! The most recent time, there was actually a little jerk that occurred just before the event. Cruise control is not on.

Is it me (i.e. some driving habit that I have that I am not aware of)? I am taking in the car for the second oil change in the next few days and will ask about this too, but I'd like to "arm" myself with some knowledge, since the service guy blew off my questions last time. Thanks

elroy5

These car's transmissions have a "lock-up tourq converter" controlled by solenoids. If you experience a suddenly increased head wind, or slight grade (a little uphill area) the lock-up will disengage, the rpms will increase, and the car may slow down some. Don't know if this is true in your case, just something you may want to think about next time it happens. Hope you solve the problem.

mrbill1957

What your experiencing does not sound normal to me.

I'm assuming you have a navi system and are watching the MPG on the screen? When using my navi system, and watching the MPG, it always has displayed something that was logical based on my driving.

Other then the drop in power, and loss of MPG, does the car seem to be running rough? Is there any pattern when it happens? Will it consistently repeat? Any warning lights come on when this happens? I would think that something that noticeable would be recorded by the cars computer.

You may need to demonstrate to the dealer to convince them that something is wrong.

Good luck,

Mrbill

ray_h1

You're absolutely correct. Additionally, in some makes*, application of TC lockup is also contingent on the fluid being up to full operating temperature. In very cold weather, if the fluid temperature slips below the nominal 70-80º C. range, the transmission control module (computer) will intentionally shift the transmission out of lockup mode - even over level terrain. Once the torque converter is actively processing fluid through the turbines to maintain vehicle speed, the fluid heats up. When the fluid temperature returns to at or above the nominal full operating temperature, normal TC lockup recurs.

*Dunno whether this applies to Hondamatics, but I suspect it does - I can't imagine Hyundai caught Honda napping.

thegraduate

You're absolutely correct. Additionally, in some makes*, application of TC lockup is also contingent on the fluid being up to full operating temperature. In very cold weather, if the fluid temperature slips below the nominal 70-80º C. range, the transmission control module (computer) will intentionally shift the transmission out of lockup mode - even over level terrain. Once the torque converter is actively processing fluid through the turbines to maintain vehicle speed, the fluid heats up. When the fluid temperature returns to at or above the nominal full operating temperature, normal TC lockup recurs.

I know my 1996 Accord does this. Normally, at 60 MPH my RPMs are around 2400, but when leaving school on cold nights, (where I crank the car and am on the interstate in less than 60 seconds) my car will run closer to 2800 RPM for awhile until the temp gauge starts rising. Then it RPMs drop back to normal.

user777

true, the retarding of the transmission from using the full range of gearing when it is very cold to facilitate warmup is convered in the manual of my accord and odyssey. i've experienced it too.

but for a vehicle to switch into and outof TC lockup... perhaps a temp sensor problem, tcm, or solenoid/wiring.

bobbic

I have a 2003 Accord-Ex. While driving today, the illumination on the gauge clusters (speedometer, tachometer) and radio display suddenly when out. I turned off the car and restarted it and the illumination on all the gauges and radio was working again. Do you know what could be causing this?

blane

bobbic,

Do a search of this forum for the word display using the Search This Discussion box at the lower right. You'll find your answer many times over.

elroy5

The TC lockup is used to get the most out of the engine (no slippage) and why these engines get such great mileage. If you are on a smooth road, you can feel the TC lock up, sort of feels like an extra shift from the tranny. Honda automatics have been like this for a long time. My 92 Accord also had the lockup TC.

thegraduate

Oh, I understand the lockup TC, I was just explaining that mine often doesn't lock up until after the engine warms up. Someone else mentioned that earlier, I was just confiriming.

elroy5

Have you noticed what feels like an extra shift? It's not much, just a slight surge, when the TC locks up.

thegraduate

yeah, trust me... i understand about the TC. I was explaining it to others.

bobbic

Thanks for your reply. I did read all of the posts regarding LED display, but most of those appear to be speaking about the radio LED display only. In addition to the radio going dark, the speedometer, tachometer, gas gauge, odometer all went dark as well.

By the way, I, too, have already had the entire radio replaced because the radio LED stopped working. I was still under warranty at the time and Honda replaced it free of charge.

rjfchywy

I have a 2006 Accord EX 4 cyc automatic with 9,500 miles. Every once in awhile it won't start. With the key in position III the instrument lights come on and everything looks normal but the engine does nothing. I return the key to position II then right back to position III and it starts. My Honda dealer checked everything (loose connections, etc.) and found nothing. Nothing was in the computer. I was told if it happened again to bring it in without turning the engine off maybe there is a soft error in the computer. Later that same day it did it again and back to the dealership I went. After checking everything they called Honda. Honda told them to change out the ignition switch. If that didn't fix it then change out the transmission gear position switch and if that didn't fix it to change out the starter. Well, the ignition sw, P/N 35130-SAA-J51, didn't fix it and the A/T gear position sw, P/N 28900RCR-003, didn't fix it. Since the gear position sw was replaced it fail to start once and if it fails one more time it will go back to Honda for a new starter. Has anyone had this problem or is my Accord being unique

user777

if the turn of the switch is causing the lights on the dash to come on, then i don't think its the immobilizer, but you never know. did you try your other key, or do you have multiple smart keys on your ring? try another of the smart keys for your car and remove any other smart keys if you have them from your ring.

now then, if that doesn't help, well, it's possible it is the relay for the starter. there is a relay that is picked up when you turn the switch to the ignition position. this relay (starter relay) will close and it's contacts will supply the actual power to the starting motor. that relay's contacts gate the power from the battery to the starter, the power doesn't flow through the ignition switch to the starter. why? because the starter consumes a lot of current that shouldn't flow through your ignition switch when you are starting the car.

makes sense to you?

so - that relay is where i'd have them look after trying your other smart key.

then your dealer might try the starter. ask them if they will swap out your starter relay first.

oh yeah, make sure (see your manual) the fuses related to the starter are pushed into the fuse block properly.

rjfchywy

No, I have only used one key. I'll try using the other one, but it may take a week or longer for it to not start. Sometimes it doesn't start twice in one day then again it may go a month before the next event. I printed out your reply so if it fails again with the other key, I'll show them your message because no one mentioned the relay. Thanks for the help.

chucko3

Did the check engine light come on?

bmwshin

Hello,
I just bought a 2004 Accord w/ 18K miles on it. It's 4-cylinder automatic model. I'm hearing rattling noise when the car goes from zero to 10-15 mph. Once it shifts into the second gear or higher, I don't hear that noise. I'm no expert when it comes to cars, but the noise sounds to me like the car is either trying too hard or it's got a bad muffler/exhaust only when it's going from 0 to 10-15 mph. Do you Accord owners have the same experience? Before talking to Honda dealers, I wanted to know if that's normal or if you know of any known issue related to this symptom.

Also, I did see a recall on 2004 Accords for transmission problem, but when I called Honda Customer Care, they said my car was not part of that recall. I'm thinking maybe my "problem" and this recall might be related after all.

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

user777

take it to an independent for a look see, or back to a dealer if you bought it from them.

sounds like it could be:
a loose heat shield on the engine exhaust manifold or
a loose heat shield on the catalytic convertor or
a loose or missing exhaust system "hanger" or grommet or
a bad engine mount or
an improperly stowed hood support rod or
a transmission problem with first or

something else.

can you get the vibration / rattling when you are in the driveway, hood open, brake on, revving the engine? if so, see if someone else will rev it while you carefully listen in the engine compartment; maybe you can localize it.

another thing you might try. check the ATF fluid level in the transmission. where to find the stick, and the proper level is documented in the owner's manual. also - perhaps you can put it in second before starting out and see if it's an engine rpm / speed thing, or 1st gear thing.

sorry i can't be of more help.

ya know, it's almost completely impossible to diagnose this over the web. an independent that can put it on a lift and check to see everything is mechanically proper with the exhaust is where i'd start after trying to sleuth it some more. they could also tell ya if you have a potential issue with the tranny.

best of luck.

rjfchywy

No, it doesn't. That's the problem. There is no indication of a problem except the engine won't start. It does nothing. I could live with it as it always has started on the second attempt. I am concerned that one day it may not start period.

mrbill1957

The recall was for 2004 6 cylinder Accord auto transmissions only.

Mrbill

bmwshin

User777, thank you so much for your kind help. I checked the ATF fluid, and when cold, it's right at the lower mark, and when hot, it's above that mark. Do I need to add more fluid?

I did test with starting the drive with 1st gear only vs. 2nd only, and the noise/vibration exists in both cases. I now feel that it's the engine that vibrates, as opposed to transmission, etc.

One thing I noticed was that when I shift the transmission into the drive mode (1, 2, D3, D, or R), the RPM dips below the idle level. The idle level at P or N is between 8500 or 9000, but when put into the drive mode, then it dips down to 5500-6000 RPM. Then I feel the engine (or I can feel the car) vibrates more than at the idle.

Is that normal for 2004 Accord? Please help. I'd apprecaite it.

user777

ok, maybe it's your idle is set wrong

i have an '02 4-cyl and the haynes manual says it should idle between 650 and 750 RPM (I think you've got an extra zero in your figures). the haynes manual says for the V6, it should be between 630 and 730 RPM. that's with it in Park or N, and probably also when you are at a light with the brakes on.

i presume the '02 and '04 will have similar spec on idle speed. there may be a label on the inside of the engine compartment hood with the specified idle speed.

one thing you could do is google "idle learn procedure" and see if you can try re-setting the idle yourself. i think the procedure is the same. if your vehicle has an anti-theft radio, make sure you have the code before disconnecting the battery, reconnecting, and doing the idle learn. i'd hate for you to have a dead radio afterwards.

there could be a number of things wrong. it's hard for me to advise you. i'm just a car hobbyist. as some point in your sleuthing, you may have to give it up to someone else whos a professional.

but - that idle you have (and I presume that's after the engine is warmed) of 850-950 RPM with it in Park or Neutral is way too fast. I know that. which means you could have a stuck injector, or perhaps a stuck throttle body, or maybe some sort of vacuum hose or sensor problem.

btw: i think the transmission fill level is good per your description. when warm, and on level ground, it should be between the marks, preferably i would imagine at the top mark.

tfinan

I had a rattle on rough pavement that sounded like sheet metal vibrating. I thought it was the package shelf but ended up being the factory jack being loose in its holder. A quick twist tightened it up and stopped the rattle.

bmwshin

Thank you so much, user777. That helps a lot for me.

chucko3

It could be a faulty ECU.

chucko3

You check the ATF after the car ran hot. It should be in
the manual.

When you shift the tranny into the drive mode, you put a
load on the engine. That's why you feel more vibration.
It sounds like one of your engine mounts broke.

bmwshin

Thank you, chucko3. I'll (or have a mechanic) look into the engine mounts to see if it's broken. I'm bothered just enough because going from zero to about 15 mph is not as smooth as I think an Accord can be. Maybe I'm sensitive to a noise like that, but at 15 mph or higher speed, it doesn't have that noise/vibration/rattling at the engine.

elroy5

There is a way to check for broken motor mounts. Open the hood, then while holding your left foot firmly on the brake pedal. Put the car in a forward gear, and push the accelerator down a little. Get an assistant to watch the engine (from the side of the car, in case the car moves a little). Put the car in reverse and do the same thing. If the engine moves a lot (tilts) in either direction, you have a broken motor mount. Even if the mount is not broken, it may still need adjustment. (This is only a means of confirming that a mount is broken.) Good luck

bmwshin

Thank you, elroy5. You guys are truly awesome. I'll try that to see if it (engine/motor mounts) is a problem. I'll keep you posted. Thanks!

user777

this is great stuff.

perhaps you could tell me why i notice there is what appears to be a vacuum line going to the bottom of the front engine motor mount. do they somehow change their dampening as a function of engine speed or something?

elroy5

The engine mounts are connected to the engine and tranny computer, and a solenoid valve (not to mention a relay switch). These mounts are designed to significantly reduce vibration. Even if the mounts are not broken, if they are not operating properly, they could allow some vibration.

Mr_Shiftright

And don't STOMP on the gas. If the motor mount is totally broken, that motor will JUMP and could break something, especially in reverse. A little bit of gas goes a long way in this test.

elroy5

push the accelerator down a little.

YES! I should have stressed the LITTLE part, and I would also say again, to get the assistant to stand on the side of the car, so he doesn't get run over.

bmwshin

OK, fellas, so I tested my car as per your recommendation. The engine definitely tilts when I push the accelerator down. The front part of the engine moves up and back probably more than I'd expect it to. Now, I think the engine is supposed to move a little bit, but not sure if it should really move up and down when applying the gas a little. The fact is I do feel the engine going up and down (or jerking) when I accelerate suddenly at any speed, but more prominently at a high spped (60-70 mph). Does this sound normal to you guys, or do I have the engine mount problem? Perhaps I should take it into a dealer and test drive another car, but looking for your expertise here. Thanks!

06nighthawkv6

No, it does not sound normal at all. You need to take it to the dealer. Remember, your drive-train warranty expires at 30 some odd thousand miles. Take.it.to.the.dealer!

When I hit the accelerator, I hear a brief tapping noise coming from under the right front side of the car (happens either when I'm in park or when moving from a standstill position) the moment after hitting the gas from a stopped position but it does not continue after 1 mph. My tech, after revving the car about 10 times when in park said he "heard it a couple times" and said it sounds like a valve opening but told me to watch it and if it keeps happening, to take it to the dealer. Now, if the mount is connected to valves and solenoid as mentioned above then it could be the mounts not working as good and thereby creating the noise from the valves. Btw, I forgot to watch the engine for extreme movement like yours. He mentioned motor mounts so I think you are such a scary right track, it's not even funny and you seriously need to take it to the dealer!

Is it real cold all the time where you live? Tech also informed me that it could be the motor mount flexing due to the cold. Again, this doesn't not apply to you as much I don't think because your issue is more pervasive throughout the speed of your car. Btw, tech works at goodyear and if anyone needs a place to buy tires and get the road-hazard warranty (worth every penny and i'll explain..), I would buy from GY because their techs, if you find a nice one, can help you in ways Discount tire guys can't when you're going in for a balance, rotation etc!

I think you should definitely take it to the dealer, whether you are in warranty or not. Explain to them with the intent on convicing them that they should just replace the motor mounts as you feel the problem won't improve.
Ask the dealer what they think but definitely try to get a solution versus typical dealer apathy. Good luck. :mad:

mastergs

I've got a 2003 Honda Accord Coupe. The car has over 46K (beyond warranty). Last night the LED display went out on the radio / center console display. If you hold a flashlight up to the display you can see what's going on. I've read all the forum conversations concerning this common problem. The remedy for this problem is to replace the radio. I've heard the repairs go from $1000 to free. Well, I called the local Honda dealership (Breakaway Honda in Greenville, SC) and talked with the service manager. I explained the problem and held my breath waiting for him to tell me the high cost of replacement. He said, "this is a common problem with the '03 Honda and the company is replacing the radios for free under an extended warranty offer". All they asked me to do is bring the car in, let them determine the type of radio that was installed (it could be a Panasonic, Alpine, etc.) and then they order the radio. When the radio arrives, they install it for free. Honda fans out there, this is the very reason Honda has so many satisfied customer and return owners.
Honda knew this was a problem and Honda knew how to fix it. In addition, they are not installing radios with the same problems. Honda is actually using logic and replacing the radios that have been upgraded...how refreshing. Thank you Honda.

elroy5

I have an 03 Accord. My light has not gone out (yet), but it's sure nice to know Honda will back up their product, even when they don't have to. If it is a problem with the radios, I would think Panasonic/Alpine are paying for at least some of the cost.

chucko3

Your car is still under warranty, right?
Bring it in for them to take a look.

hybrid93hatch

I am starting to notice a few rattles in my 2006 Accord LX. The rattles appear when hitting a bump, uneven pavement, or when running over the reflectors that separate lanes.

1st rattle: Drivers seat belt area. Not very loud, but very noticeable because the area is about 10 inches from my left ear. The rattle is coming from the top piece that the seat belt loops through

2nd rattle: Sounds like it's coming from the tweeter area up on the drivers side dash (just below the windshield)

3rd rattle: Center console around large door area. The car was taken into Honda for a faulty console door (the large door would not open close properly).

I would like to know if anyone else is experiencing similar rattles. I do realize this is a 20k vehicle and not a 7 series BMW. The rattles are annoying. This is one reason why I purchased a brand new vehicle instead of used.

Thanks for any feedback!!

davidd3

1st rattle: Drivers seat belt area. Not very loud, but very noticeable because the area is about 10 inches from my left ear. The rattle is coming from the top piece that the seat belt loops through

My 2006 LX has the same rattle. I found that I can make it go away by playing with that top piece until it settles into a quiet position. But the rattle keeps coming back. It's annoying, but not annoying enough to take it in for service until it's time for the first maintenance.