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I repeat, Toyota officials admitted they were worried about Hyundai's aggressive and direct competition. Don't take my word for it, it's a matter of public record.
Nope, I never disagreed with that or ignored it. Toyota would be a fool to ignore them, although it's worth noting that Toyota's corporate culture is designed to root out complacency and avoid handling potential competitors the way GM did in the 1960s and 1970s.
What I disagreed with is the contention that Hyundai quality is equal to Toyota quality.
There is considerably more evidence to support my contention (that Hyundai quality isn't there yet) than yours (that it is).
bobad: As for our friends Rroyce and Jlawrence, I respect their opinions as much as any other Internet forum poster. I'm sure their credentials are impeccable and their motives are above reproach. But they can't tell the future, can they? I haven't been wrong yet on car selection, so I hope you guys don't mind if I listen to myself on this one.
When talking about vehicle quality, what matters is today, and 5-10 years ago. In that respect, I put more faith in the informed views of rroyce and jlawrence - based on their extensive experience - than in a Hyundai owner.
Whether Hyundai will be a competitive threat involves looking into the future. Toyota is wise to worry about Hyundai, but that doesn't mean the threat will be realized.
In 1959, Renault was close to knocking VW out of the number-one spot for import sales (and even outsold VW in certain months). Renault was a competitive threat, but we all know how that one ultimately turned out...
Thats where we differ, I have more faith in the views of those who have first hand experience in the car than the "informed" views of someone who doesn't. If I talk to 20 Hyundai owners and 18 say that they have had wonderful experiences with their cars that means a lot more than rroyce and jlawrence giving their so called informed views. When they actually own and drive the cars I will have more faith in what they say about them.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The question isn't whether individual owners like their cars (in this case, Hyundais). The question is how Hyundai quality stacks up to Toyota quality.
To answer that question, I want more than anecdotal stories from owners. I want information from professionals who are in a position to compare various makes on a regular basis.
The experience provided by rroyce and jlawrence is far more thorough than a collection of stories from owners.
In view of your sister's experiences with Toyota (the cars have problems, but she apparently still loves them), you should be especially suspicious of using owner testimony to judge the relative reliability of a vehicle.
Indeed, in other threads, you used her as an example of why we should not trust quality ratings (because she would cover up problems when answering surveys, and this was supposedly done by Toyota owners on a widespread scale to favorably influence ratings).
But now individual stories are trustworthy...?
snakeweasel: If I talk to 20 Hyundai owners and 18 say that they have had wonderful experiences with their cars that means a lot more than rroyce and jlawrence giving their so called informed views. When they actually own and drive the cars I will have more faith in what they say about them.
Again, the question isn't whether owners like their cars. You don't have to drive individual cars to judge whether one is more reliable or better built than another one. You just have to talk to mechanics and dealers who service and sell thousands of cars - of all makes - every year.
This is what jlawrence and rroyce have done, and this is why their input is superior to anecdotes when it comes to judging RELIABILITY.
That doesn't mean that INDIVIDUAL Hyundai owners are not happy with their cars. Of course, if said Hyundai owner traded up from a 1992 Cavalier, I'm sure that Elantra seems like a Lexus...
When considering individual tales of testimony, we must look at the "backstory" behind them.
True and when those owners tell me about the reliability of their cars are I shouldn't listen? Again who do I listen to, those with actual experience with the cars or those who have none?
The experience provided by rroyce and jlawrence is far more thorough than a collection of stories from owners.
Again if they have no experience with the cars and that they say is the opposite of what those with experience with the cars differ who are we to believe?
Lets look at it this way, you live in New Cumberland PA, I have never been there (at least not to my knowledge) who do you think is more qualified to tell others what New Cumberland is like?
Again, the question isn't whether owners like their cars.
Again I am not talking about if they like them but their overall experience.
Again if the vast majority of owners that I have talked to give me reports of the reliability that differs from someone who doesn't own or drive one who am I to believe? I will believe those who own and drive the cars before I will believe those who don't.
So I have a choice I can believe the vast majority of owners who said they have put on a lot of miles with no issues or jlawrence and rroyce (who have no hands on experience with the cars) who say the quality is not there. To me thats a no brainer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Without Edmunds, I'd say Consumer Reports, then individual owners.
With Edmunds...rroyce and jlawrence, no doubt. They are a valuable resource.
snakeweasel: Again if they have no experience with the cars and that they say is the opposite of what those with experience with the cars differ who are we to believe?
Given that rroyce sees thousands of cars every year through his work, he has had plenty of experience to judge the reliability of Hyundai versus other makes.
Jlawrence handles leases of hundreds of cars, and he talked to mechanics who repair all types of makes and models. I would consider his opinions to be based on real-world experiences.
Now, if you are talking about how Hyundais handle, if they are comfortable, do they give good fuel economy, etc. - yes, you should talk to owners, and get their feedback.
But that is not what is being discussed here.
snakeweasel: Lets look at it this way, you live in New Cumberland PA, I have never been there (at least not to my knowledge) who do you think is more qualified to tell others what New Cumberland is like?
I am qualified to tell you what New Cumberland is like as a place to live.
I am not necessarily qualified to compare New Cumberland to other places when it comes to taxes, quality of life, crime rates, etc.
Applying these scenarios to cars, Hyundai owners can do the first. Dealers and mechanics are better positioned to do the second.
snakeweasel: Again if the vast majority of owners that I have talked to give me reports of the reliability that differs from someone who doesn't own or drive one who am I to believe? I will believe those who own and drive the cars before I will believe those who don't.
Those owners are not in a position to judge Hyundai's overall reliability against that of Toyota, which is what we are talking about here.
Those who have far more in-depth experience with thousands of cars from all over the country are far better positioned over someone who owns one to compare the reliability of various makes.
snakeweasel: So I have a choice I can believe the vast majority of owners who said they have put on a lot of miles with no issues or jlawrence and rroyce (who have no hands on experience with the cars) who say the quality is not there. To me thats a no brainer.
You talked to 18 owners...given the number of Hyundais sold every year, I would hardly consider that sample to constitute the "vast majority" of owners.
Someone who either buys and sells cars or someone who repairs them has plenty of hands-on experience with these cars. They also probably know far more about these cars then their owners do when it comes to reliability and mechanical issues.
My wife's cousin has owned a repair shop in suburban Baltimore-D.C. for three decades. Given the number of cars he sees, his need to keep abreast of the latest issues with various makes and models and his need to keep his skills updated, I'm going to put more stock in his opinion ("Toyota is the most reliable car out there.") than someone who owns a Hyundai and considers it equal to a Toyota in reliability based on a sample of one or two.
With edmunds I would trust the drivers, then non drivers then pathological liars then consumer reports.
I stand on what I say, unless rroyce and jlawrence have hands on experience with those cars I will trust people who own and drive them more.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Once the 2002 or 2003 annual Auto Issue was distributed (the exact year escapes me), with its claims of dramatically improved Hyundai reliability, the media trumpeted the Consumer Reports results, and threads such as this began popping up on Edmunds.com.
So some Hyundai fans - at least on this site - must put the magazine ahead of pathological liars when it comes to credibility.
You can stand on what you say...but against someone who has consulted dealers and mechanics, you probably will not have a leg to stand on for very long.
I know some people who used to work for CR They have said a few things, lets leave it at that.
You can stand on what you say...but against someone who has consulted dealers and mechanics, you probably will not have a leg to stand on for very long.
I think I have a very good leg to stand on as I also have talked to mechanics.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Since my name has been drug through the mud for the last 50 posts, I have had more than a few experiences with Hyundai.
My first Hyundai experience was when I lived in Canada in the very early '80s. I drove one of the Hyundai Pony models that was imported into Canada. It was a take off of an earlier Mitsubishi model and was a pretty rough car as were MOST compacts of the era.
I kind of like weird cars - Fiats, Skoda, Remault and the like ... as long as I don't have to rely on them.
Experience #2 was when my pastor had a Hyundai Excel with a blown engine at 40k. He is a really nice guy and the dealership was stonewalling him. The guy has little money and is facing a $2k repair. After hours of negotiations with teh delaership, I negotiated a deal where he could apply teh purchase price of the vehicle to a new one.
Two years pass and boom, another engine failure for my pastor. This time, after a lot of threats, the car was bought back by the manufacturer and we goy my friend into a Taurus.
For the record, I have said painfully little about Hyundai on this board. I like the Accent a lot as a subcompact. The Elantra has always been a disappointing car to me overall. It has nothing to recomend it. I like the Sonata a lot - the interior, exteriors are pretty nice. However, the 24 mpg that I get with the vehicle on long trips on my past three rentals pales in comparison with the 30 mpg that I get with the wife's Impala.
Hyundai makes credible vehicles. Not great vehicles. If you can buy one for $5-6k less than a Toyota, Honda, etc., do it. I would not TOUCH a pre 2002 Hyundai.
The posts that drive people crazy are the ones where I say to avoid Kias until they demonstrate a good track record in quality and reliability. Yes, I have driven Sophias and Optimas and find little to like.
Again folks, it is my money and I would not buy a Kia. I also wouldn't buy a VW, BMW, and number of other models.
Trust whoever you want to. Buy whatever you want to.
When they actually own and drive the cars I will have more faith in what they say about them.
The above was stated by snakeweasel. Notice I spelled what he said accurately? I hope you do. It shows interest in what others say and/or write.
Too many people go by what others say in these large, broad, sweeping generalized statements. One of the problems with statements like those is they overlook truth and they overlook facts. Anecdotes? Facts. And good reliability records. Today's Kia and today's Hyundai are worlds apart from 1998's and 1999's Kia's and Hyundai's. I should know, my 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4 is built a tidy bit better than my 1999 Kia Sephia was. I know, different rigs, but the overall quality of my '01 is better than the overall quality of my '99. That Sportage is a great rig. What reason would I have to lie about it? I don't own Kia stock. I don't work for Kia in any way. I am not South Korean, I am a citizen of the U.S. and have been all of my life.
snake's right, listen to people who own the rigs and drive them daily. Not those who have been burned in business propositions in the past. Or those who have picked a "lemon" vehicle out and want the world to know that they have picked a "lemon" vehicle out, therefore everything that car maker does is wrong, too expensive and too lame.
As Ron Fairly would say during Mariner baseball broadcasts, "That's just good baseball!" Well, this is just good carbuilding, my car-loving friends. Singleing out a manufacturer as deficient eternally is saying that that manufacturer wants to put out crap and fail and go out of business.
Oh, there's this little Warranty HyunKia calls The Long-Haul Warranty. It's a very bold and very smart little piece of information and material, oh yes it is. It does work and the Companies don't try to duck out of their responsibilites written down on the Warranty. It's successful for them.
Another reason why I think Toyota is concerned about Hyundai and Kia. Fearing them? Depends on who you talk to at Toyota, probably. Did anyone notice me putting down Toyota in this post? Read back if you have to, I didn't, because there's no reason to. The competition between these carmakers gives us better cars(i.e. Rio, Sportage, Yaris, Versa, Fit)and gives us choices. Good choices.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Does Toyota "fear" Hyundai? If Hyundai can achieve Toyota-level quality in a way that resonates with buyers, then yes, it certainly will, because it will put a squeeze on Toyota's high margins. (Toyota branding is rooted strongly in a quality image, so a quality provider that can compete on price is absolutely a credible threat.) However, Toyota does have superior branding and critical mass more so than does Hyundai, and it has plenty of fish to fry, such as shoving Ford and GM further out of its way, so all is not gloom and doom at TMC headquarters. Just another competitor to be dealt with, as are any others.
Is Hyundai quality there yet? Early data appears that it may very well be on its way, but it's a bit soon to tell. Data series like these require both breadth and time to be accurate, and not enough time has passed under the current quality regime to know for sure. From what I know of QC, the signs are certainly there, but that may not necessarily translate into long-run results for most of the owners.
Some consumers will take the risk and be early adoptors of Hyundai based upon the price advantage, while others will be late adoptors who will stay away until more data is available. The more happy early adoptors, such as ILuv, the more late adoptors may come along. We'll see what happens.
We can argue about anecdotes, both good and bad, and it's interesting to hear them. But anecdotes are not data (or more to the point, they are insufficient data), so these need to be used cautiously. I'm more inclined to go with something along the lines of Consumer Report's surveys, which compile large numbers of anecdotes together to achieve a very large data pool, which helps to weed out the oddball examples and provide a measure of the norm. Pretty useful, I really don't see why some complain about them, as long as the results are used in context.
Personally I think the players that are smaller than Toyota, such as Honda, Nissan, Mazda, and definitely Mitsubishi and Suzuki, have more to fear than Toyota. But Toyota needs to be on its guard, and not get complacent. They show no signs of doing that.
The experience provided by rroyce and jlawrence is far more thorough than a collection of stories from owners.
I see you have absolutely no regard for owners. Rather, you put your faith in "Internet Experts". Sounds like you would be a really mark for a slick salesman.
You mention "anecdotal". At some point, maybe 10, maybe 20, maybe 30 owner opinions become more than anecdotal. Sure, owners are a little biased. So if 18 out of 20 owners say they are well satisfied with their car, how many of them are really not satisfied but only say they are? And who are you and any "Internet Expert" to say I am not satisfied with my car?
Allow me to give you my opinion on mechanics. Of the 100 or so I have met, I respect the opinion of perhaps 10. They aren't exactly university material... know what I mean? They have their own biases, misconceptions, and alleigances. Most REALLY GOOD mechanics give up the wrench and open their own shop, where they go nuts trying to hire and keep competent mechanics. I trust the average car owner MUCH MORE than the average mechanic.
Snakeweasel is right on target. I think we should value the opinion of an astute and educated group of owners owners 10-1 over an "Internet Expert" that has never driven, much less owned, a given car.
I then read more and saw that Kia is South Korea's oldest car maker, starting business in 1944. The Internet was teeming with automotive news stories from all around the world. Kia was going bankrupt. The chaebol of Hyundai and the adding of Kia, some corruption stories surfaced, on and on, economic troubles, etc. etc.
In 1998, the fall if memory serves me, Hyundai bought 51% of Kia to "save" them from collapse. Lee Iacocca was not there but the South Korean government apparently was for Hyundai and Kia. Kia Motors was alive and kicking. I never really felt like there was trouble spelled T-R-O-U-B-L-E for Kia, because, product-wise the car maker was busy engaging themselves in a planned assault on Japan's automotive empire. Hyundai was in cruise control at the time and no doubt recognized the advantages of the extra power in adding Kia to their "umbrella" car manufacturing empire. A controlling interest but not an engineering "control" completely, was how it was explained to us readers. Kia would still have control over day-to-day operations of their car company. They were still an independent car maker, they were however owned percentage-majority wise by Hyundai. Kia, upon lots of further examination, was alive and well and teeming with new model ideas and concepts in their house.
Kia was the maker of the Ford Festiva and later the Ford Aspire. Ford engineers assisted Kia in the design of the Sportage's "ladder" type frame-box underneath. Teeming with activity and very, very hard at work. Was this company dead? Falling to pieces and giving up? No way! Owner reports on the Ford Festiva and Ford Aspire were generally solid and good. The cars were built for fuel economy and for dependability and Kia delivered the goods for Ford in a large manner. Would a company like Kia, well-established and paying lots of people and partsmakers to help produce shipload after shipload of cars for the world markets just fold? I knew Kia was too credible to those who bothered to research them at all, too good at what they did to just throw in the towel like Kobe Bryant in Game 7. They had too much on the line and they produced the goods for market.
Now Kia is rocking and rolling with Hyundai and building plants all over the world. Cars are being produced for skads of foreign markets around the world and they are being purchased in large quantities. A Long-Haul Warranty, a marketing and business plan genius of an idea, was sold with each new Kia. I know, we all think that our American car market is the one that everybody yearns for and follows with baited breath. That's true, to an extent, but the European market is huge for Kia and Hyundai, including new plants and activity in Eastern Europe. Things are rolling along well and a new Kia plant is scheduled for West Point, GA, USA.
Too much to do, too many new models to release to wait for total automotive acceptance in a land where Grandaddy Ford and that French American guy Chevrolet once ruled the land. Bratty American opinions, to your possible chagrin, don't rule the worldwide automotive roost. Wonderful concept, huh? There's people in other lands using their brains, wow, unbelievable! Healthy, too! Whoo-hoo! No, the automotive ball must keep rolling. Kia and Hyundai are housed with engineers who, while in high school and college score the best in the world at reading, writing and arithmetic. Way too talented to stop and doubt themselves and worry about some cell-phone touting American Idol fan here in America to tout them best.
After all, there's cars, vans and SUV's to build for the worldwide automotive market.
How are American kids doing at their schoolwork?
You mean there's people building cars from other lands? You're kidding. They use their brains and think and are creative? No way, dude!
Toyota's not afraid of the South Korean carmakers? Think again, if you can squish American Idol out of your brains for a couple minutes.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The Scion line is priced to be competitive with Hyundai and Kia. The new Yaris is also.
Competition between Toyota and Hyundai is good news for car buyers.
As for Hyundai, I too feel that they need to quickly solidify a "quality" reputation and move upmarket soon. With Chinese cars coming in a few years, Hyundais and Chinese brands will probably be cross shopped by buyers if this doesn't happen. From what I have heard, the Chinese cars that are going to be sold here will be very inexpensive (below 10,000), making it possible that Hyundai will be waging a losing war with cheaper imports.
Yeah I think that might hurt Toyota in the long term. While they are good cars if I am going to drop 35 G's on a car its not going to be a Toyota.
As for Hyundai, I too feel that they need to quickly solidify a "quality" reputation and move upmarket soon.
Well the quality issue has been debated here (they have proved it to me at least) and they have been moving up market. Just check put the new Azera and the Equus (or whatever name it will have here) that is on its way.
From what I have heard, the Chinese cars that are going to be sold here will be very inexpensive (below 10,000),
Well it remains to be seen how well these chinese cars [yugo] will do [yugo].
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Thank you Mr Subliminal.
Who knows what China will turn out? My experience with Chinese machine tools is they start out a bit rough, but respond very quickly to customer complaints. I'm betting the first 2-3 years will be shaky, but they will mount a serious threat within 5 years. I think they will be very quick studies.
Perhaps the Scion brand will expand their model range over the next 3-5 years and become Toyota's Hyundai/Kia fighter.
Looks like Toyota is moving Lexus into $100,000+ territory.
Singleing out a manufacturer as deficient eternally is saying that that manufacturer wants to put out crap and fail and go out of business.
Never seems to fail. Posts that take fellow posters to task for spelling and grammar errors are filled with errors of their own.
Snake should start with a capital S.
Singleing should be spelled singling.
The problem with relying on anecdotal posts in forums such as this is we do not know the posters. Maybe they are what they say. Maybe they are not.
On the other hand, we can be relatively sure of the critics' identity. An experienced reviewer who provides review criteria and has a reputation for consistent reports is far more credible to me than an anonymous blogger saying they own such and such a make and like it.
I like the new Camry, but not for 28K+, especially when we drive 35-40K per year, or more.
By 5 years of payments, you hit 200,000+ miles. Big resale hit there, no matter what you trade-in.
Out tC is a great car, but 33 dollar oil changes, vs my Sonata's 23 dollar oil changes(at each dealership, Toyota and Hyundai).
If I got the sugested 5K deal done, I'd also have to include rotation of tires every 5K( anyone ever hear of this before? I haven't). If I did this, it would be nearly 50 dollars every 8-10 weeks.
I don't think so. Maybe every 10K .
So, I pay 33 dollars for an(2005 tC) I-4 oil change vs 23 for( 2004 Sonata)- V6 at Hyundai.
That's less than Wal-Mart charges for an oil change for the Sonata.
Personally, I think all cars are too pricey, to be honest.
Most people I know buy 3-5 year old stuff, or older.
If you see new cars(vehicles), it is usually a Cobalt, HHR,PT Cruiser,or Elantra, or a few Suzuki Forenza/Renos.
If people pay 30K plus, it is usually on some SUV/Truck, not a car, in this area.
I just think Toyota(and Honda) prices are too high these days.
Not attacking their vehicles.
Some may say that I am just looking for the least expensive vehicle, oil changes, etc....to a degree, yes.
But, I like Suzuki Reno, but would not buy it, and it had leather everything, for less than the tC. It even had/has a better warranty.It was inexpensive, but it was not fast to 60, and had barely 29- 31MPG for 126HP I-4, vs our 32-34MPG for I-4/160HP tC.
The quality of the Reno was ok, but the car was sluggish.
Also, the dealership network(minus a new one that opened recently in my area) is a joke, at best(same could probably be said about Kia,or Mitsubishi,VW,and a few others, in this area,to be honest).
If I were to buy a new midsized sedan today, and did not want to go the Hyundai/Kia route, or G6, I would probably buy a Fusion vs Camry. The Fusion is decent enough, and does not cost near luxury car prices for a family sedan, loaded up like we like 'em.
Take Care/Not Offense
-Loren
-Loren
SUV's and trucks ( especially the new Tundra ) may change this some in the near future since both make much larger margins per vehicle than the autos. As noted above breaking the stranglehold of Ford and GM will be tough but it will make a lot more profit than the same number of autos.
As seen by the new Camry, particularly the new V6 version, there is a move to distance it from the mudfight in the $18K range... Ditto Honda. This is where the Corolla and Civic earn their stripes. If Toyota can fill Georgetown with 600,000 plus Camry's and Avalons at prices of $21K and higher while the Corolla/Matrix fill Fremont and Cambridge with vehicles in the $16-19K range then Hyundai and Kia and the peripheral players from Japan can also have their own place.
This puts the Corolla/Matrix and Civic fighting the Sonata for the 'under $20K buyer'. The main players the Camry and Accord push into new markets.
Oil, filters and state inspections Free for Life.. Any new Toyota, Chevy, Acura, Hyundai ( Honda and Dodge ).
So, all of us have our own subjective analyisis, based upon our past experiences. However, you can't judge the current crop of Hyundai's based upon the Pony or Excel, no more than you can judge a current Honda or Toyota based upon their rust buckets of the '70s.
A 33 dollar oil change? If you hadn't qualified your statement, I'd have thought you were getting it done at a Lexus dealer. My Nissan dealer charges 23 for my Maxima, and that's with a horrifically expensive ($11) oil filter, and ~6 quarts of oil.
For $33, I'd do it myself. Or better yet, find a good indie mechanic to do it.
I did say use their brand, that was fine.
They called me to pick up the car about 50 minutes later(hardly anyone was there that day, and originially was told 20-30 minutes, tops).
My bill went from $12.95(plus taxes) to 26.95, plus taxes :surprise:
Long story short, they told me they were out of the filter they use for Sonata, and had to send a guy dwon the street to get one(did not say where, but probably one of the 2 automotive supply shops).
They used to always have filters for the Sonata there(my 99), and until March of this year, for our 04. The guy said they do not stock many anymore, and did nto know they ran out when they said they could do the oil change.
The Hyundai dealership usually charges 21.95 plus tax(so around 24 dollars).
I did not get mad, becuase I would have had to drive to the dealerhsip anyway, and that would have made the trip, oil change around 30 dollars, at the time.
May just start going to the one place that sells used cars, and does minor service on cars(12.95 oil change -ad guy). They seem ok. Been in business nearly 2 years. Wouldn't be here that long if they were totally crooked, not in this "small" town(s) around here.
Wal-Mart said they could change the tC's oil, too.... but i bet they won't find a filter to fit it, and charge 30 dollars,too.lol.
Anyhow....
take care/ not offense.
tC was nearly 6K miles, and light had been on a week or so.
Took it in, and when I got the bill for oil change/filter.....
$39.95 :surprise: :mad:
I asked them why they did not even top off the fluids, and the guy said" it is extra"(the service mgr) :surprise:
I told him for that price, the car should have all synthetic oil in it :mad:
This place also has a fireplace, 2 tv's, free manicures for the ladies, and a (charge you, of course) snack/coffee bar.
They should feed my family for 39.95!!!!! Should have a pizza waiting when we leave.
Wait are you telling us they charged you $14.00 to send someone down the street to get a filter? That don't sound right, nope, no sir, just don't sound right.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
They always had a filter for the 90 Sentra, or the 97 200sx, etc, but suddenly, they are "hard to find" (and they had them all of the time for our 99 Sonata, all 5 years we had it, and for 1 year for the 04 Sonata, until March of 06, and now the things are "scarce"?).
Have you had any warranty work done. Did they question anything at all before doing a service work? Do they provide a car when warranty work requires a day long or more service?
-Loren
Had bearing replaced in 01 tibby at 99,000+ miles, free, no questions asked, back in june of 04.
No car was provided. One place in Columbus supposedly will give you a loaner for warranty problems, or 30-60K tune-ups. Depends on the dealership. That is 100+ miles, one way, from our home, so not going there.
I had no issues with Hyundai, and warranty items, until 2-3 months ago.
Took the car in(sonata) and the back window would not roll up all of the way when it was below 50 degrees outside,unless you forced it.
Took it in and they supposedly fixed it, but it got stuck the very next day.
Called the 800 number, complained, and they said to give them one more try to fix the issue(or go elsewhere, another Hyundai dealership).
I am going in probably in 3-4 weeks for my 30K(just turned over 30K ) tune up. Will ask them to look at the window again.
My take is that now that they are selling more cars, the dealerships aren't trying as hard to properly correct any issues.
Irritating.
I did tell the customer serivce/800 number, that if they do not fix it on the 2nd try, I will call back and Demand to see the District Factory Rep(i did this once before in 99. The DFR agreed with me, and I got my car re-aligned..it was really bad after just 3 days of ownership, as if I had it 20,000 miles without an alignment. The dealership refused to fix it, so I got the 800 number, DFR, and all was fine).
I am betting a visit by the DFR is coming up.
I went to Toyota to fix our tC's wiper blade arm(would not go down all the way, passenger side) in Feb. They "fixed" it. Had to go back 3 weeks later, for same repair.
It is finally fixed.
Basically, Toyota, Hyundai both seem to"fix' things,the first time, without argument, but, it does not seem to take, until maybe the 2nd visit(in Scion's case). Same Might hold true for this sticking power window, when i go to Hyundai, again, later in June.
I am just not impressed anymore by any maker's abilities to do Free Work.
You pay for it, magically, it's fixed correctly the first time, it seems.
Take Care/Not Offense
It's hard to get good help these days, isn't it? Cars are getting more and more technical, and people coming into the work force are less and less educated. I've heard people remarking that "my mechanic said this car is no good or that car is great" when the same mechanic can't even fix a simple problem. The ability (and expecially the opinion)of the average mechanic just doesn't impress me.
The recall affects about 986,000 vehicles across 10 models, including its popular Prius hybrid car. More than half of the affected vehicles are in Japan, company officials said.
The intermediate shafts and sliding yokes in the recalled cars lack the necessary strength and could distort or crack under strong pressure, causing drivers to lose control of the steering wheel, the Japanese automaker said in a statement.
In the United States, Toyota is recalling about 170,000 Prius models because the steering shaft assembly could become loose or crack under certain conditions.
Toyota said there have been no reported crashes or injuries connected to the problem in the U.S. Owners are expected to be notified of the recall in mid-June.
In Japan, the recall involves a total of 565,756 vehicles manufactured under the Wish, Isis, Prius, Corolla, Corolla Runx, Corolla Fielder, Corolla Spacio, Allex and Ractis brands between September 2002 and November 2005, according to the statement.
The number in Japan included more than 300,000 Wish cars and more than 113,000 Prius cars.
Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong said the recall involves about 240,000 vehicles in Europe, including the Prius, Corolla and Avensis. An additional 10,000 vehicles were being recalled in other parts of the world, including China and New Zealand, he said.
The recall follows more than 30 complaints filed with Toyota since March 2004, the carmaker said. The company wasn’t aware of any accidents attributed to the faulty parts, it said.
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This is why I am (really) not a one-company-for-life type of person.
Companies can change their designs to maybe Not appeal to me, during one cycle run, and I will look elsewhere, or quality issues arise, or prices are too high, or they do not offer options (packages )that I want in a car,etc..
Best to have an open mind, and other options, close to buying time. I check them out, even if I like what my current maker(of the vehicle I currently own)has something I am 90% sure I want.
You never know. May find something you like even better?
take care/not offense.
Brands mean nothing to the smart buyer. Sure, when in doubt, buy a car from a company with a good track record. But always ask yourself "What have they done lately".
Regardless of what overly-loyal fans say, it makes no sense to develop a strong brand loyalty. Camry, Accord, Sonata, Mazda6, F/M/Z, and Altima are all so very close in quality, reliability, features, and performance that it makes perfect sense to jump from make to make as things stand right now. As the years go by, each will most likely have good years and off years. Toyota is an excellent company. They will be back up to speed in no time, but it's a good time to play the field.
Same for the military. Most had 2 vehicles, if they were married. Some days, a guy might drive to work in a Nissan Sentra, then next, maybe his Camro.
In my area of Ohio, though, most people, for one reason or another, tend to stick with one brand only, and do not understand why we look at so many brands.
Oh Well.
Take Care/Not Offense.
Of course, that doesn't apply to everyone in this region but I found them to, overall, have this funky fierce loyalty to Ford and GM, even if it meant they were stuck driving those backwards rigs around all over. It was a bland couple of years, man. :sick:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Yeah the Domestics are pretty dominant in the midwest. The East Coast and West Coast people are more likely to purachse imports than domestics nameplates. The Chrysler 300 has made a pretty good showing for itself with its populairity on the East Coast though.
That depends on where you are in the Midwest. I know that in the bigger cities (like Chicago and Milwaukee and such) and their suburbs thats not always the case. Yeah in the rural areas domestics are dominate, but in reality thats a smaller market than the more urban areas.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
While this is not scientific by any means I did the "find a dealer" search on Ford's, Dodge, Chevy, Toyota, Nissan and hondas websites and checked a couple rather rural areas. In each case the domestics had dealerships within 10-15 miles but the imports were at least 20 miles away.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I would have to look at wikepedia to see what generation my dad's uncle is in.