Toyota Fearing Hyundai?

rockylee

ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well you got to give him credit for not giving up when your kicked around. What ever happen to 3-Strikes and your out ?

Rocky

iluvmysephia1

just automatically make things peachy and rosy for Ford and GM, though. Healthcare costs remain a huge problem for American automakers.

The Chinese-built cars will take a while to sell here but will eventually sell and I think they will be a force here, too. The low prices will appeal to consumers as job money-earning inequity looms as a big problem. The used car market will take care of most of these consumers but the lure of a new car with that new car smell for 70% the cost of a new GM or Ford has a strong appeal, don't'cha think, car freaks?

rockylee

I think that black mold smell of those Chin-E class cars will recieve a few keys if ya know what I mean.

Rocky

snakeweasel

The Chinese-built cars will take a while to sell here but will eventually sell and I think they will be a force here, too.

Replace Chinese-built with Yugo and you have a quote that went around in the 80's.

but the lure of a new car with that new car smell for 70% the cost of a new GM or Ford has a strong appeal, don't'cha think, car freaks?

Not if its just another Yugo built by the Chinese.

rockylee

Well we agree on this one pal. You go... I go....we all go...in a Yugo. :P

What a joke, just like the Chine-E class imports

Rocky

P.S. Iluv will be a new fan it looks like.

bobad

It wasn't surprising the Yugo was a hunk of junk, because the old Eastern Block countries had never produced a quality product of any kind. There are currently some quality products coming out of China, so I think the quality will be much better. Initial offerings are likely to be pretty rough, but I think refinements will be astoundingly quick. Right now, Toyota fears Hyundai, but in 6-8 years, they will all fear the Chinese offerings.

snakeweasel

Just remember that friends don't let friends drive Yugos.

rockylee

The Chinese will fear the India car company's and the India car company's will fear Eskimo car company :P

Rocky

snakeweasel

I am not saying the cars will be junk or that they won't be. I am going with the wait and see approach. But imports from 2nd world countries do have a very poor track record here.

rockylee

I'll watch out for the both of us. I won't let you or I drive a yugo.

Rocky

rockylee

If they can't build $200 shoes properly, what makes me think a car will be any different.

Rocky

iluvmysephia1

but the Chinese are only gathering steam. The old, tired hunks of Detroit junk are fading fast, just like a Dennis Rodman jump shot from 6 feet away.

Let's see if the Dodge Hornet can help turn around the American car program.

snakeweasel

The Chinese will fear the India car company's and the India car company's will fear Eskimo car company

But dog sleds don't do very well in hot weather.

rockylee

LOL

Rocky

rockylee

Well those pile of cow dung Chine-E cars will fade faster than Shaq at the free-throw line. :P

Rocky

nippononly

In a decade or two, the largest auto manufacturer in the world will be a Chinese one, I am sure. Thing is, I'm not sure that should be a source of fear. They can make the price as low as they like, and in a market as mature as North America, they will never gain more than a healthy bite of the market. Toyota is taking off - it has the best growth here of any carmaker in the last 10, 15, 20 years, take your pick. And they don't make bargain basement cars and sell on the lowest price.

The reason the largest carmaker in the world will be Chinese in 20 years is because the Chinese will need so many cars by then. Just look at the population over there - roughly FIVE TIMES that of the U.S.!!! And the market here is good for what, 17 million sales a year?

Imagine a market good for 85 MILLION sales a year, and then imagine it is in a semi-autocratic state with strict import limitations and regulations, where you as a Chinese carmaker have free rein.

Oh yeah, the Chinese will be the biggest in the years to come. Who will be the most profitable? Probably still Porsche, although Toyota will be making leaps and strides to challenge them on that! :-)

snakeweasel

Imagine a market good for 85 MILLION sales a year, and then imagine it is in a semi-autocratic state with strict import limitations and regulations, where you as a Chinese carmaker have free rein.

While China may have 5 times the population they won't have 5 times the market for cars. China is a very poor nation and will be for some time. A much smaller percentage of the population will be buying cars in China.

socala4

I am not saying the cars will be junk or that they won't be. I am going with the wait and see approach. But imports from 2nd world countries do have a very poor track record here.

Bingo. At this stage of the game, China is generally a low-cost producer, not a producer of quality, with a shortage of the middle managers needed to ensure efficient production and adequate QC. It remains to be seen whether Geely, etc. will accomplish that or not.

That being said, I have little doubt that if they don't get there right away, they'll get there eventually. And that's when you'll start seeing Chinese-made BMW's and Ford's on the highways and byways of America.

fintail

I wonder if we'll be able to afford cars by then

bumpy

We'll be able to afford Chinese cars. :sick:

ontop

Right now, Toyota fears Hyundai

What a bunch of nonsense. Toyota's kickin butt right now, even with Hyundai out there. Hyundai has one ot two good models and that translates into 'Toyota fears Hyundai'?

Yea - sure

snakeweasel

Just remember that at one time Apple laughed at Windows.

socala4

Toyota's kickin butt right now, even with Hyundai out there. Hyundai has one ot two good models and that translates into 'Toyota fears Hyundai'?

It's more about Hyundai's potential than it is about present circumstances.

Toyota's primary differentiation in the market is its consistent ability to create highly reliable vehicles. Consumers are willing to pay a premium in exchange for receiving this high and consistent level of quality.

Any competitor that can deliver equal quality and equally desirable vehicles for a lower price is a threat to this strategy and the profits that come from it. If Toyota has to ultimately respond by cutting prices, this would be put a severe dent in TMC's profits and force it to find new strategies to either continue to operate with much reduced margins, or else to find new ways to command a premium.

That's not a position that any company would welcome. We'll see whether Hyundai can go the distance, but so far, it has given plenty for Toyota and other automakers to worry about.

killerbunny

Replace Chinese-built with Yugo and you have a quote that went around in the 80's.

Not if its just another Yugo built by the Chinese.

Chinese are much better at copying a design and creating a competitive product than the Serbians. Just look at Walmart---dominated by Chinese products, but never by Serbian products. Thus, Chinese cars will be no Yugo. They will come and rule.

killerbunny

Imagine a market good for 85 MILLION sales a year, and then imagine it is in a semi-autocratic state with strict import limitations and regulations, where you as a Chinese carmaker have free rein.

You got it backwards. From 1949 to roughly 1990. The Chinese car makers (state owned) had a free rein. But they had gone nowhere.

After 1990, the Chinese market has opened up to competition. Old stated owned makers either died or reformed. Plus many new privately owned maker, the Chinese auto industry is very free.

For instance, VW has over 25% market share there and GM has more than 10% plus Honda/Toyota/Hyundai. It's more competitive than Japan.

saabgirl

Imagine a market good for 85 MILLION sales a year, and then imagine it is in a semi-autocratic state with strict import limitations and regulations, where you as a Chinese carmaker have free rein.

I really wish I had a better crystal ball on this one. The Chinese are split into the haves who live in the cities and the peasants who don't. The peasants seem disgruntled because the comrades in central planning are requiring them to build the stage that the prosperous city folk are dancing on. So there might be a Chinese speed bump ahead. Maybe they'll cruise over it, and maybe not.

wolverinejoe80

maybe not now, but maybe 20-30 years later? they can't stay poor forever, can't they? i know they won't buy mb's or bmw's, but why not a cheapo cars? after all their population will be 2 billion+ and china is a huge country. people need cars then.

socala4

In a decade or two, the largest auto manufacturer in the world will be a Chinese one

Actually, I would think that the largest auto manufacturer in the world will be a Japanese or American, or possibly a German or Korean one, that will be exporting full lines of cars from China.

As GM and others have already done, they'll set up joint ventures in China to access the low cost labor. As production volumes ramp up and quality improves, they'll start exporting more and more higher priced cars, further and further away. They'll still build cars in the west to stay close to their markets, but the lion share of expansion will be occurring in the PRC, Southeast Asia and possibly India. I'll bet that it's just a matter of time.

bobad

Right now, Toyota fears Hyundai
What a bunch of nonsense.

Those are not my words. Those are the words of Toyota. If Toyota says they fear Hyundai, why wouldn't you believe them?

rockylee

nippon, I totally agree with your theory pal.

Rocky

rockylee

I disagree with ya pal. China has the fastest growing economy on this planet and nippon said in 20 years. There automobile market is expected to pass our by 2010-2011 time frame by the experts. Just something to recognize is all I'm saying.

Rocky

rockylee

Yeah it will take them some time I agree, but most of us have seen Chin-E Buick LaCrosses, and they seem to be of quality nature. So is it possible they can build nice cars ? I would assume so but however that is using GM Robot technology and processes.

Rocky

rockylee

Now that's a good logical question Fintail. :surprise:

Rocky

rockylee

That's not funny. Hopefully we can afford atleast Hyundai's :sick:

Rocky

rockylee

I agree Toyota or Honda shouldn't fear Hyundai quite yet.

Rocky

rockylee

Did apple really laugh at Windows ? I don't think any Japanese or domestic car company is laughing. They are dissapointed that our government isn't doing enough to enforce the trade rules we have in place.

Rocky

rockylee

Well that's the problem killerbunny is they can seem to get away with ignoring trademarks and copyrights and nobody put the company that spent it's R&D is saying anything about it. :mad:

Rocky

rockylee

I agree with your position.

Rocky

nippononly

the Chinese are beginning to break their partnerships with foreign automakers this year. They have taken what they needed, and now they want to do it on their own (even as they continue to mercilessly copy other carmaker's designs right down to giving them similar model names!). Yes, they will allow foreigners to continue making cars there, which I am sure our automakers will all ramp up as quickly as possible. But their own automakers will quickly dominate their home market, I will bet.

And yes, it won't be 85 million car sales next year, or in ten years. But most of China's residents are urban, not rural, and they will all aspire to car ownership as more and more cars flood their streets. As manufacturing jobs become increasingly plentiful, an inexpensive little runabout from perhaps Geely or whoever will seem like just the ticket. :-)

Meanwhile, Hyundai will be fighting the Chinese for huge export markets without much of a car-making presence, like India. And where will Toyota be? Can it get down in those trenches? I am not sure. But if it manages to continue stealing the market share of the American automakers, it may not have to get in the trenches in the 20-year timeframe.

bobad

I agree Toyota or Honda shouldn't fear Hyundai quite yet.

I agree. Not today. But auto companies plan long range. Normally, they plan years ahead. Most or all of them have designs on the board and marketing strategies for up to 8 years out. When Toyota declared they were worried about Hyundai, I'm sure they are worried about possible developments that fall within their normal planning time frame. Personally, I believe that if Toyota doesn't make some shrewd counter moves to Hyundai's quality, pricing, and name recognition onslaught, they could start to lose significant market share in 3-4 years.

rockylee

Okay fair enough I can agree with you pal.

Rocky

P.S. Maybe thats why Toyota has recnetly tried promoting itself as an american made brand in some of it's market strategies. A wise move by them.

lemko

Personally, I'd take a really nice used car, regardless of age, over a really cheap new car. I don't care how poor I am. Only a fool would pay for a really cheap, small, decontented, tinny little new car when he could've had a decent, solid, well-featured larger, more upscale older car for the same price or less.

lemko

These guys can't even properly forge a crescent wrench. What makes them think they can cast an engine block or forge a crankshaft. If anybody wants to see what these Chinese cars will be like, take a look at their motorcycles and pocket bikes - deplorable! They abound with sloppy welds, misaligned screws and metal burrs.

rockylee

Now that is very true lemko. One can get a 98' Caddy Seville STS alot cheaper and much nicer than a Chin-E class of car.

I for example am going to buy my G'ma's 02' Aurora for around $9-10K and it sure beats owning a POS Kia

Rocky

rockylee

Well you should see the tin cans they sell to our government as vehicles. They are called "GIANTS" a Tinament on wheels pal. Your Campbells soup can has steel than the doors of those POS's ! :mad:

Rocky

danf1

Can we just rename this discussion "rocky likes acura and GM, doesn't like Hyundai"

nippononly

LOL!

lemko: let's hope they can build engines better than that, for the sake of all the Chevy Equinox owners out there!
Also, your "only a fool" comment is painted with a pretty broad brush, isn't it? So many factors go into decisions on what car to buy. Used vs new is the classic debate that has two equally valid sides.

bobad: I don't think Hyundai will take any market share from Toyota in the 20-year timeframe, if only because Toyota will continue to take market share from the American carmakers during that period. However, Toyota does need to be planning now for the decades AFTER that period of time. That is when most of the growth will be in "emerging markets" which have traditionally been lower income, where cheaper models have been the ones to sell well.

rockylee

I'm okay with Hyundai, but don't like Chinese cars. Atleast the employees in Korea are getting paid a fair wage and have made some big jumps in quality as hard as it is for me to admit. Hey someday I do see Hyundai making very above average vehicles with some very sophisticated electronic probably sourced from Delphi just like there Injectors.

Rocky

snakeweasel

I don't disagree that they are the fastest growing economy, I don't disagree that they may surpass the U.S. as a car market. I do doubt that they will be an 85 million car a year market any time in the foreseable future. That would take some major changes that the chinese government would not allow.

snakeweasel

Did apple really laugh at Windows ?

Supposively Bill Gates presented Windows to Apple and they turned it down saying it wouldn't amount to anything. Its a better than average chance that it happened.

But I do know that the City of Chicago was turned down by the bigger banks in Illinois for a loan because they believed that Chicago would amount to nothing. Yes this was in the early 19th century and Chicago was nothing more than a small town and all the big commerce was in Southern Illinois. Maybe I should have used that case.

Either way it is not wise to dismiss any competition, they may put you out of business someday.