Toyota Fearing Hyundai?

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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Okay I can agree with that. I don't think 85 million vehicles will happen for atleast 25 years give or take a few.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That is true. Getting slapped in the face sometimes make people very determined to get revenge. ;)

    Rocky
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    rockylee is just so darn agreeable today! It makes our lives so much easier. :D But look out tomorrow! ;)
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well Windows made computers less expensive, as in the demise of Apple's reign of premium only computers at twice the price. A rip-off of a user interface of Apple which runs on DOS, may be what some may call it. It wasn't better than Apple, except for the fact you could buy cheaper computers, and they started writing lots of freeware to Windows. That is why I have always used Windows. Billyware was or is cheaper - oops, I guess the word is suppose to be less expensive. It is less expensive. But why would Apple buy into Windows? To bury it? Hey, I get ya!

    Anyway, Hyundai may be the next Windows, and Toyota the next Apple??? Well a very popular and profitable Apple, as it will likely maintain the overall dominance and sell more in the upper class cars, even when (if) Hyundai the "Window" becomes ever so popular for its value. The ones that could get terribly lost are the GM and Fords of this equation. They need to compete with STYLE. Go for the style and uniqueness.
    -Loren
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Well Windows made computers less expensive, as in the demise of Apple's reign of premium only computers at twice the price.

    In reality it was IBM licensing their computers to be cloned that made computers less expensive and cause the near demise of Apple.

    A rip-off of a user interface of Apple which runs on DOS, may be what some may call it.

    Well Apple rip off the user interface from Xerox.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    That's right, forgot about Xerox interface.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    :P

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Yeah I get a kick out of it when people complain that windows "ripped off" Apple in all these areas when Apple ripped them off of other companies.

    Anyways back you your regually scheduled slugfest.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rommeyrommey Member Posts: 7
    Apple software: If I want to go From Annapolis MD to Pittsburgh PA, I get the most direct route. Micro$oft software: M$ will start you from Annapolis, MD take you across the country through California, up through Washington state, acroos the midwest and eventually end up in Pittsburgh, PA. Sure, just like Apple, you'll get to Pittsburgh, but look at the route you'll have to take to get there? M$ software is a pig. Ever hear of Bloatware? Get serious and start thinking right. When was the last time everyone and your grandmother had the exact same gadget? Ipod anyone? BTW, I just got rid of my 2005 Acura TL for a 2006 330i BMW. It smokes the TL anyday.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I doubt that it smokes a Acura TL. I owned a 05' TL and left many 330i drivers in my wake. :P

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    First off Apple is pretty much a dinosaur and is no better than a IBM clone (maybe worse since there isn't the support network that you have with the IBM clone).

    Secondly I don't see how your heavier, slightly less powerful BMW can smoke the TL.

    FWIW Its fun to smoke BMW's in my Caddy. :shades:

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Xerox licensed components of WYSIWYG to Apple. Apple built on it to much success. Xerox earned a lot more on the license than it was ever going to earn exploiting the technology itself. If that is ripping off, I would like to offer my address here for all such thieves ;)

    As for a TL and 330 competition, given equally adept drivers, the better balance of the 330 is going to come through at speed. Any punter at the race track is going to take the BMW over the Acura.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Secondly I don't see how your heavier, slightly less powerful BMW can smoke the TL.

    FWIW Its fun to smoke BMW's in my Caddy.


    Maybe not on a straight line, but definitely in the curves. Better front rear balance works every time.

    The new Caddies are adept competition to BMW. No surprise there as they are also front engine rwd.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Maybe not on a straight line, but definitely in the curves. Better front rear balance works every time.

    Definatly better on the straight line. 6 speed manual and a Corvette engine that baby moves. :shades:

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Ah, the V Series.

    Love that car. Big thumbs up.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    snake, can leave BMW owners crying in his CTS-V and the next generation will make those BMW's feel even more embarrassed as they ponder over that nearly $70K price they just paid :D

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I keep hearing between 500 and 600 HP in the next generation V's. :surprise:

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    600 is what I keep hearing more of pal. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yeah, and they keep making Cadillac and other RWD cars add weight to their cars, to keep things equal. If all cars are to be equal, why not just make one car. Oh yeah, NASCAR is already there - especially for the 2007. One car for all.

    On the road tracks, those Cadillac CTS-V would be winning even more races, if they did not have to take on the extra pounds to comply with the rules of the level playing field.

    Acura, and well as some cheaper FWD cars, like the Celica, do handle well, and are fun to drive. They are not better than the RWD cars though. Or better said, I would prefer the RWD. There is no better when buying a car. It is simply what you like. After all, it is your money. ;)

    Hey, is Apple better than Windows? An old debate no doubt. I liked the price on Windows computers - now Apple is coming down in price. Always loved all the freeware people wrote to Windows - are people providing good quality freeware for Apple? Debate two - Linux vs. the world.
    -Loren
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Acura, and well as some cheaper FWD cars, like the Celica, do handle well, and are fun to drive. They are not better than the RWD cars though. Or better said, I would prefer the RWD. There is no better when buying a car. It is simply what you like. After all, it is your money.

    FWD has come a long way. Many of the better examples, such as Acura and Saab have almost no torque steer at all. In almost every driving condition, FWD is as good as RWD.

    At speed, however, front engine rear wheel drive offers balance, stability, and steering dynamics that FWD cars struggle to reach. I know a few are close, but if I'm going fast, I want RWD.

    Hey, is Apple better than Windows? An old debate no doubt. I liked the price on Windows computers - now Apple is coming down in price. Always loved all the freeware people wrote to Windows - are people providing good quality freeware for Apple? Debate two - Linux vs. the world.

    I've used Mac all my life. I have the new 20" Intel Imac. I think MacOSX is somewhat better than Microsoft, but not by a huge margin. A lot of my preference is probably just familiarity. The Mac hardware is hard to beat. My unit takes up very little space and has great definition. I use it as my DVD player, and with a Slim Server hooked up to my tube analogue amplifier, my CD player. The money I saved not buying a DVD and CD paid for the fancy Imac (obviously, I could have done the same with a Wintel, but it would not look as nice in the living room, so I probably would have put in the home office and bought a DVD and CD player)
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    CTS-V?
    I heard they are strapping on the Space Shuttle thrusters, though it could just be a rumor.

    Why anyone would need more than the 3.6 V6 has power wise is beyond me. Possibly for race track. That race car, BTW, does sound nice indeed. Louder than the Corvettes. Saw the race car at Laguna Seca.

    For the CTS:
    What they should do is add the telescopic steering column, and lumbar support as standard for seats, the 3.6 V6 as standard and lower the price say to $28K, and I would be happy. If they keep the 2.8, then lower the price to $26K.
    The V8 can have all the bells and whistles, leather seats, and fluffy stuff and sell for say $35K.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Why anyone would need more than the 3.6 V6 has power wise is beyond me.

    1.) Bragging rights.

    2.) the look on the faces of those with V12 7 series BMWs that cost twice as much when you beat them out at the light. :P

    But you're right the 3.6 V6 is plenty for everyday driving, and the same can be said for most cars out there. Do you really need the power that an AMG or an M car has either?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Although most 200+ HP V6 owners seldom use the top 50% of their horsepower, it's nice to have that power "on tap". I certainly wouldn't want to be without it.

    Unfortunately, it costs a lot of weight and fuel to carry that seldom-used reserve "just in case". Seems awfully wasteful to me. There must be a way to get a temporary boost for passing from a little 50mpg 4 banger. Get busy on that snakeweasel. :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    VW has already figured this out. They have small-displacement TSI I4s. TSI stands for both turbocharged and supercharged. The 1.4L TSI reportedly puts out 170 hp. They get similar fuel economy to a diesel.

    No reported plans to bring them to the U.S. :(
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Although most 200+ HP V6 owners seldom use the top 50% of their horsepower, it's nice to have that power "on tap". I certainly wouldn't want to be without it.

    For most family sedans I would think that 200 HP would be on the low end of the acceptable range, high end would be maybe 250-275. 400 HP is just overkill.

    There must be a way to get a temporary boost for passing from a little 50mpg 4 banger.

    My daily drive is a 4 banger and taking it out of overdrive prior to making the pass makes a noticeable difference in acceleration. It gets those RPMs up closer to the range for maximum torque and HP.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    400 horsepower isn't overkill. It's actually not enough IMO. 600 horsepower is just about right ;) I actually won't buy my next vehicle unless it has a mininum of 290 horsepower. I will then however have to atleast buy a programmer and/or chip to increase mpg's and power. ;) If I baught a 300+ horsepower SH-AWD Acura TL Type-S for instance, you can guarantee a programmer and chip would soon follow. :D

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    400 horsepower isn't overkill. It's actually not enough IMO. 600 horsepower is just about right

    Either you are joking or you are nuts and I think its the latter.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Hey, if everyone could afford 9mpg and an engine overhaul every 50K miles, I think 400hp engines would be pretty popular. :)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    who's get only 9 mpg ? The CTS isn't. Oh your talken about those 400 hp. European cars, gottchya :blush:

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I get better than 9 MPG. But then again I don't floor it off of every stop light. And I hope I don't need an engine overhaul after 50K, but then again it will take me time to get to 50K.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Improved Santa Fe gives Korean automaker legitimate challenger in the crossover market

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061018/AUTO03/610180302

    Rocky
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Does anybody know if Hyundai has any plans to slash fleets sales to rentals? I mean the last time I looked 20% of Hyundai sales were to rentals and thats almost Domestic Big 3 like. In my opinion if Hyundai wants to play with the big boys(the Japanese Big 3) they are going to have to cut their sales to rentals in order to have better residual values on their cars than they have currently.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    carguy, thanx for the post !!! I didn't know the great Hyundai allocated that much of it's cars to fleet !!!! :surprise:

    Rocky
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    In my opinion if Hyundai wants to play with the big boys(the Japanese Big 3) they are going to have to cut their sales to rentals in order to have better residual values on their cars than they have currently.

    If you check around, you may be surprised at how many Hyundai owners would have never considered buying one until they rented one. Many people that rent 06-07 Sonatas are quite surprised, and are willing to consider buying one based on the rental. A Hyundai executive made a remark that early on, the most important thing was to make the car visible. I guess that includes rentals.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "carguy, thanx for the post !!! I didn't know the great Hyundai allocated that much of it's cars to fleet !!!!"

    Well actually Hyundai combined with Kia rental fleets accounts for 20% of their sales last time I checked.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    "If you check around, you may be surprised at how many Hyundai owners would have never considered buying one until they rented one. Many people that rent 06-07 Sonatas are quite surprised, and are willing to consider buying one based on the rental. A Hyundai executive made a remark that early on, the most important thing was to make the car visible. I guess that includes rentals."

    No, the 06 Sonata was not moving off lots the way Hyundai wanted it too when it first came out attributing to some fleets sales. Yeah but in all fairness it did take time for buyers to get educated about the new Sonata. I do notice more 06 Sonata's that are sold at retail on the road than when it first came out.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That is incredible ;)

    Rocky
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    :surprise: This could really mean something here...

    A deadly addition to the Toyota portfolio IMO. Looks like Toyota is picking up where GM left off as far as assets go (Subaru stake, now Isuzu). An Isuzu designed Diesel in something like an FJ or 4Runner would sell like crazy.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Absolutely. They have said recently that they might have to push back the diesel powertrain for the new Tundra. With this announcement, it looks like it has a good chance of getting back on track in time to still arrive early '08 for the '09 model year.

    I would assume they could also apply it to Sequoia and both the pick-up trucks, 4Runner too, just in time for its next model changeover.

    Camry production at SIA (Subaru's Indiana plant) is scheduled to begin early next year. Meantime, Hyundai is trying to figure out what to do with all the Sonatas it can produce at its new American plant that retail buyers don't want to buy. Currently, the answer has been to funnel something like 1/3 of them to rental fleets.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061113/NEWS99/61113003/1014/BU- SINESS01

    "So as it appears Toyota, right now looks at Hyundai, as a pimple on their butt" :P

    Rocky
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    has now, as of 2006, managed to exceed a 15% share of the U.S. market, comfortably in front of Chrysler Group, and only about two points behind Ford, which not only sells many more vehicles to fleets (as a percentage), but also saw heavy double-digit declines in the sales of its two most popular models, the F-series truck and the Explorer, this year, as well as the end of Taurus (its most popular car) production near the end of the year.

    So I would say Hyundai is still Rocky's "pimple" to Toyota, with less than 1/3 of its sales. But Honda oughtta watch out - Hyundai has half of Honda's sales now, and Honda only managed to grab a half point of U.S. market share this year, still just under 10% (of course Honda does that with no cash back to the customer ever, the highest resale in the biz, and better safety and reliability ratings)....

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Actually, Hyundai has to pass over Nissan first before hurdling within Honda's range, in the US. This year Hyundai/Kia sold about 3/4 million of units (still 1/4 million units short of Nissan), I would think a better year is in stores now the scandal and extended strikes are behind.

    On the other hand, worldwide, Hyundai/Kia is ahead of both Nissan and Honda for the 6th largest automaker spot in the world (this as of 12/31/05 - 06 figures should be released soon)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    This year Hyundai/Kia sold about 3/4 million of units

    That will put Kia/Hyundai about 20 years behind American Honda which sold as many vehicles in 1986.

    That said, I see it as a must have for any well-run business to not take *any* of its competition lightly.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    20 years behind? How do you figure that? Hyundai didn't even start selling cars in the US until 1986. Even then, it had an obvious disadvantage at initial phase and has continued to stay with the brand for years, partly even now.

    The fact Hyundai/Kia sold more vehicles worldwide than Honda in 2005 (6th and 9th respectively) is not an indication one automaker is behind another either...
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    My point: Honda was selling 3/4 million cars 20 years ago in the USA, where Hyunda/Kia sit right now.

    Global market is another issue. In fact, Suzuki overtook Honda in Japanese market recently, thanks to the Kei-segment car where Honda is (relatively speaking) a non-player. Speaking of which, Honda just took control of Yachiyo that specializes in Kei segment (and actually makes two Hondas sold in that class) to continue its focus on larger cars.

    Steps like this will limit sales volume at global volume, but not necessarily in company's appeal or bottomline.
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