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No one's saying Hyundai is a threat to Lexus. However, Hyundai IS in fact a threat to Toyota. Let's take a look at several winning elements in Hyundai's strategy:
1. They consistently undercut Toyota's prices for vehicles with similar or better feature content
2. Their warranty is much longer, showing a desire to really stand behind their vehicles
3. Their warranty is specifically designed to be more valuable is the car is KEPT, as the powertrain warranty isn't transferable. This makes it less desirable to sell one used, creating an incentive to keep the cars out of the used car market, keeping resale values up thanks to lower supply.
4. Their marketing is currently spot-on, highlighting the value of their cars versus lower-specced cars from LUXURY brands.
Now, Toyots DOES have a technology edge in the area of hybrids, as well as an actual truck line which Hyundai currently lacks. But Hyundai is working on the trucks (Kia already has a truck based Sorento here). ANyway it's clear Hyundai has developed a strategy that has allowed them to compete successfully.
So if Toyota isn't worried, they should be. Nissan's still hanging around too, and could also be a threat (their trucks tend to do better than Toyotas in ratings). the Saturn division may eat into their sales too, as may Ford. The Euro-style vehicles have always been desirable here (that's how BMW did so well) and that's what Nissan, and now Saturn and Ford make, only they make them mainstream rather than high-end. This means Toyota is under attack from all directions (GM too, when/if they manage to universally deploy 6-speed trannys), and Hyundai WILL manage to get a piece, especially in these economically conscious times, when people have less money to spend than they did a less expensive Hyundai with the same or more features and longer warranty will be very appealing.
This is a very big item. If you follow the hybrid forum you will read post after post of people recommending the extended warranty on Toyota. That includes sales people. One told a person with a Prius problem out of warranty they were crazy for buying the car without the extended warranty. Well that adds a $grand or more, to the price that is already higher than the competition. With the reliability problems in some of the current Toyota models it will be interesting to see when they extend their warranty to match Hyundai.
The issues with suppliers is not new to Toyota. They pulled some shenanigans on Ford that limited the amount of hybrid parts Ford could buy from a Japanese supplier.
I think if Cerbuerus follows through with cutting blades that Chrysler(no longer to referred to as DCX since Daimler has sold their Chrysler interest...at least they only now hold 19% of Chrysler interests)will only fall down on the worldwide list of automotive sales.
This doesn't change the fact that Toyota's got one direction to go now and that direction is not up. They might move sideways for a while instead of down but upwards has already been hit by Toyota.
I find it pleasing that most of the posters in here are up on cars enough to see the same thing. Why won't Toyota offer a long Warranty? Don't they have confidence in their own rigs?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
all other offerings by Hyundai/Kia 3-4 stars (average - above average). If I was in the market for a new Suv, I'd certainly examine the Santa Fe.
My new vehicle is not a Toyota. Not exactly being brand loyal, I went elsewhere. My view currently is that Toyota just ain't what it used to be. Presently, there are many good choices in the auto market and Hyundai is just one of them.
In answer to your question, I believe that Toyota has more confidence in people lining up to buy their product than they do in the product itself.
You never know:
"Hyundai may not be a household word—yet but it’s coming. The Veracruz is a study in refinement."
2007 Hyundai Veracruz: A Lexus Lookalike (The Driving Woman)
And for those wondering why a young guy would want such a car as the Camry in the first place, he and his girlfriend already have one child and another on the way. They wanted a family sedan.
And for the person who said the Sonata was "far better" than the '97 Camry, I would have to disagree, having finally driven it myself now. Better, yes. FAR better, I don't think so. And it should be better, shouldn't it? It has the advantage of being a decade newer.The '06 Camry was not a whole lot better than the '01 IMO, and the new Sonata is less than a half step behind the current Camry, with price on its side. I could see them selling a bunch of these. But competition just continues to increase: the new Malibu and Accord debut this fall.
You know, what some folks are saying here resonates with me: Toyota has good reason to fear the resurgence of GM, not to mention Honda and Nissan. Should it particularly fear Hyundai more than the rest? I am not convinced on that one. Toyota is always in a tight race to out-Nissan Nissan and out-Honda Honda, and now with GM executives suddenly (seemingly) committed to fully competing again, won't staying ahead of those three tigers (if Toyota is able) pretty much ensure that Toyota stays ahead of Hyun/Kia as well, at least for the next decade, maybe two?
I think, probably so.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Enjoy! Lots of useful info.
I think Hyundai is much more aggressive than the GM, Honda, and Nissan. I don't think there's much they wouldn't do to gain market share on the leaders. They have put the world on notice that they intend to compete with much more expensive cars, and they are not joking.
DrFill
I have no "axe to grind" with Hyundai. Don't really care about Hyundai. I care as much about Hyundai as I care about string beans.
My question is: Where do they get the stones to use Land Rover, Lexus, and BMW in their ads. You get winded fighting Nissan!
Toyota sells more than 5 to Hyundais 1, so Hyundai shouldn't even be on the radar. I don't speak for Toyota. I keep it real. Why should Toyota sweat Hyundai? Americans obviously don't care, sales have stalled, and 1 million sales looks more like a dream than a goal.
Hyundai sets itself up for ridicule. Plain and simple. They want to sell luxury cars, but want to do it cheap and cheezy. Then when their $20k cars struggle, they attack vehicles they aren't, can't be, cross-shopped against.
In a nutshell, their marketing is awful, and it looks to get worse from here.
Regarding Toyota vehicles, over the last 5 years, they've easily won twice the awards Hyundai has won, and that's very conservative.
This website has awarded Toyota 7, or 8 (I lose count), comparison victories over the competition. What else do you want from Toyota? Toyota is on top of the world. Nothing here has changed the facts on that.
I don't know waht Gagrice and others are smoking, but Toyota vehicles are doing great, as per usual. They just don't set as many records as they used to.
Toyota is doing exactly what they should. Build great vehicles as best they can. And their best is too much for the competition.
Not that I consider Hyundai competition.....
GM will be fine. No reason to "fear" GM. GM and Toyota are old friends, actually....
DrFill
Didn't they invent "triple net" deals? Or invoices on the window, instead of window stickers? :P
DrFill
First time I knew something was wrong with Toyota was when I went to the Toyota/Subaru dealer in the area, and the salesman said "You don't really want a Toyota. The Subarus hold up better anyway." Later on they split them into separate buildings on the same lot, because the salesmen kept selling more Subarus than Toyotas.
The real reason we pushed them instead of the Kodak was because we got a $5 spiff for every one we sold.
Who knows why your salesperson steered you to the Subaru. :shades:
Snotty!
Snotty!
DrFill
For someone who doesn't care about Hyundai, you sure spend a lot of time here knocking them. You are even tracking how many awards they've won over the past five years, how many cars they've sold compared to Toyota, and keeping close watch on their marketing. That seems like odd behavior for someone who doesn't care about Hyundai and doesn't even consider them to be competition. I'm not in the car business, but if I don't consider another company to be competition, I don't spend any time on them--I have enough competitors to worry about.
As for commission's for Hyundai, I've sold 16 this month and have made $11k, and I haven't ripped off anyone in the process. We have Subaru's also, and I am constantly steering customer's to Hyundai, because they pay better, and you get more for the money. :shades:
I wouldn't bet serious money on that possibility.
All you've got right now is speculation--some of it quite creative, but speculation still.(With maybe some wishful thinking thrown in!)
There's no doubt that Hyundai makes decent products, offers an attractive warranty, good price range selection, and certainly has made some inroads re market share.
Aside from the fact this discussion has polarised (Hyundai-the "good guys", against Toyota-the "bad guys"), sales figures don't lie. Hyundai is still way behind the leaders in the game. It's not even a horse race at this point.
Like it or not, Toyota is in first place now, and it'll be a while before that changes.
How it will change is anybody's guess at this juncture.
To say that Toyota had better fear Hyundai is not speculation. It's a warning.
There's no "wishful thinking" here. Although I own a Sonata NF, I have no dog in this hunt. Badges mean exactly nothing to me. What have you done for me lately means everything. I don't care who is top dog, now or ever. I will always be buying the best car for the money. If Hyundai keeps offering cars of Camry quality for $1000's less and a 2x better warranty, I will keep accepting their gift. If XYZ company offers a car of Camry and Sonata quality for $1000's less, I will jump ship in an instant.
You may be surprised at how many owners are smart enough to reject a $5K badge.
Nice to have a little balance here. I never considered Hyundai much until talking to friends & relatives that have them. They are all happy with their purchase. One has a Sonata with 120k miles. He never used the warranty. His car still looks new.
That is very true. My cousin has bought Toyota since the Cressida days. She gave the Cressida to my aunt and bought a 1999 Camry. That was not quite as nice as the Cressida. It has been very reliable. She just bought a 2007 Camry. She says it is not as good as the 1999 Camry. Does not handle as well. The 2007 sits in the garage. She told me this will be her last Toyota. They went from Cressida quality to the current poor Camry in less than 20 years. My aunt is still driving the 1990 Cressida. I seriously doubt they will be able to afford to keep the 2007 Camry running 18 years from now.
I have to applaud Hyundai. If they come out with a luxury SUV or PU with a diesel engine, I will give them a chance at my money.
Interestingly enough, numerous automakers have already stated their "fear" of Hyundai, including Toyota, of course. That is a good thing on Toyota's part, because it recognizes the competition, before it's too late.
One of the trends Hyundai started among mainstream automakers - offering standard ESC in both car and SUV category, and others followed.
DrFill
Haven't seen Toyota use it once.
They are more into "a company to watch" type mode.
If Toyota keeps their house in order, fear is not an option. :P
DrFill
Also, just to get you up-to-date, some others:
1) Toyota to suppliers: don't sell to Hyundai
2) Toyota wanted to visit Hyundai's plants, Hyundai rejected Toyota's offer
They managed to set Ford's hybrid program back several years with the same [non-permissible content removed], anti-trust type tactics on crucial hybrid parts. If it had happened in the USA they would have been in court paying big fines. Those that think that Toyota is so green are right. GREENBACK dollars is their only motivation. They are environmentally green only in the eyes of the uninformed. sell a lot of Pri'i so they can sell more gas guzzling Tundra PU trucks.
In my company, we don't "fear" our competitors. We believe we can take them on successfully, if we execute well. But we do respect our competitors and keep a close eye on them. Even though nearly all of them are smaller (and most considerably smaller) in sales volume than we are.
Meanwhile, Hyundai has stopped growing, can't pass a maesly 500k, struggling Nissan does twice the business, at higher prices, and Toyota is eating their lunch too.
I guess Toyota sells more when they're "scurred"... :surprise:
I'll laugh for Toyota. Seems all of the Hyundai fans are here, and word of mouth isn't growing your business. :P
Hyundai needs excuses. Toyota accepts none.
DrFill
I cannot speak for all Camry buyers. I know my cousin and several buyers that reviewed their new Camry here on Edmund's feel they were sold an inferior car, compared to what they had been used to from Toyota.
Posted 5/15/07
Review
This is my third Toyota, and my last one. I'm disappointed seeing that every time this car consumes more gasoline. I've been measuring the miles/gallon since I purchased it, and it never goes higher than 23 mpg in a mix of city and mostly highway. Also, it hesitates when I press the gas, and 3 seconds later it accelerates with a jump! It doesn't feel safe!
You may do what my friend did after selling Toyotas for a year. He went back to selling Buicks. He was able to sleep at night knowing he did not have to make up stories to sell a car.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006082
Hyundai clearly has 'Yota on the run! I am so very impressed!
Kinda like Derek Jeter vs Jose Reyes argument. I love Reyes, as a Mets fan. And I hate Jeter. But Jeter has the goods, and Reyes needs to put together a greater resume for the next 10 years, before he is Jeter-esque.
Anyone who says different, is playa-hatin'.
You know who you are.
If Hyundai would keep the chest-thumping to a minimum, they wouldn't look like clowns to the casual car guy.
I guess now Toyota, JD Power and associates, and 400k people for the last 5 years, don't know what they're doing.
Good to know.
DrFill
Initial quality is nice. What happens a few miles after the short warranty is gone, is the most important time frame for me.
You know what they say about ToyLex long term ownership. "No Problem that Money Cannot Over Come"!
That would also apply to stories by people not sleeping at night because they sold cars--Toyota or otherwise.
Truth be told there are probably sleepless nights for some folks in sales careers--and not just auto sales!!
With Nissan's new models coming, and the focus on CVTs, Toyots better worry about Nissan too. And between GM's 6-speed trannys and sourcing cars from Opel for Saturn, GM should also be on the radar. Toyota needs to make quality, competitive product to stay where they are, or other manufacturers will nibble away at their sales.
We definitely have a conflicting view on "great".
If you equate "great" to being #1 in sales figures you are right. Toyota is a "Pop Star". Most of us realize what that really means.
Bang for the buck? Hyundai and Nissan.
Cheers!
My sentiments exactly. Let Toyota be #1 in sales. They worked for it.
That's what keeps 'em coming back for more, right?
BTW, Isn't it true a 10 year old vehicle of any make with 16% residual value is almost a fact of life? Disappointing--yes; reality--definitely. On the other hand, is it fair? I certainly don't think so!
One big reason for this phenomenon is because the market is oversupplied by used vehicles. Sad, but true.
So, according to Gagrice, since I've shown Toyota still dominates Initial Quality, and Long-Term Durability ratings, now the only thing that matters is any other rate of time that fits his defeated argument.
It's built right to begin with, and it last better than anything else, but it still isn't built well.....
Toyota will give them much more respect than I will. I don't see anything to worry about. Not at all! :confuse:
And one more thing.
Toyota has been very accomodating to GM, for a number of reasons, when GM has asked to work together.
If Hyundai wants to act like a bunch of bad-a$$es, that's fine.
Toyota, obviously, has been running this game a little longer than some people. Hyundai can definitely use some pointers on marketing. :lemon:
They need a lot of help. Just won't admit it.
Seeing the future brings a smile to my face.
DrFill
Maybe I missed something, but the 2006 JD Power IQS report that you posted earlier shows that Hyundai has a higher score than Toyota. Porsche was first, followed by Lexus, then Hyundai, then Toyota.
Yes, Toyota has been running this game longer than Hyundai. Toyota imported their first vehicle to the U.S. nearly 30 years before Hyundai did. Little surprise that Toyota has a much larger dealer network and sells a lot more cars here than Hyundai does--Toyota had a 30 year head start. And yet Hyundai has already passed them on initial quality, and is improving on long-term reliability, while the combined Hyundai/Kia sales in the U.S. are on track to surpass 750,000 this year (they are shooting for 1 million by 2010). Glad that future brings a smile to your face.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006082
Hyundai clearly has 'Yota on the run! I am so very impressed!
Exactly as Backy posted, Hyundai is one up on Toyota in the 2006 IQS, which measures 2006 vehicles for the first 90 days. Let's see how Hyundai and Toyota does in 2009 VDS, which would measure 2006 cars. If the trends hold, as they generally do, Hyundai should finish respectively.
The 2006 VDS you posted measures 2003 vehicles - FYI.
Kinda like Derek Jeter vs Jose Reyes argument. I love Reyes, as a Mets fan. And I hate Jeter. But Jeter has the goods, and Reyes needs to put together a greater resume for the next 10 years, before he is Jeter-esque.
Anyone who says different, is playa-hatin'.
I am not a Yankees fan but I have the utmost respect for the team and specifically, DJ, just like how I respect Toyota, for what they have done, and where they are now, despite some struggle. That's the difference - you have no respect for Hyundai, and I'd venture to say you hate the company.
Don't hate the player, hate the game
Furthermore, I sold privately, the amount offered to me on the lot was somewhat less.
Oh, what a feeling!