Someone has posted before the percents of total vehicles for HoToy that were assembled in this country. If I remember the one that I would think built the most here was lower than the other as far as the total number being imported still.
The advertising leads people to believe a much higher percent of total output for each brand is built here than actually is. Building here is good.
My experience is the polar opposite of yours. I've had excellent experience with American cars - especially Buick and Cadillac. Why should I abandon them for the unknown (Japanese) especially when I find the Asian offerings bland, soulless, grotesque, or simply alien?
the Big 3, who are downsizing to the equivalent of their market share, yet still employ SEVERAL TIMES more people in this country than than the foreign companies, you know this may all be true, it may indeed take 10 UAW employees to do what one employee can do in Kentucky, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas, and Alabama (to name a few) - a really sad commentary on an industry that the US (and the so called Big 3) dominated not that many years ago. Sure all those ludricrous pensions and free healthcare that the US makers count - for whatever portion of the overall economic pie that really is BUT when GM, for example, is spending $2500.00 PER CAR to fund these programs and that also happens to be about what they lose on every car they sell - there is something definitely wrong with this picture. Ford, closes dozens of plants in recent years, buys out the contracts of many of those employed at these plants, so they too can reap the rewards of these negotiated pension programs AFTER they spend their unemployment checks that you and I both funded. And after they do all that to us, then they seek some justification for injecting so more pesos down south of the border? Gimme a break. Ford is a Mexican car manufacturer, Buick will shortly be a Chinese one and then, they expect me to spend my hard earned $ on generally inferior products, watch that money disappear into other economies - and all because the brand names don't happen to end in a vowel??? Thanks anyway, I think I know a way to get some real value for my money and most importantly put more of that money back into the pockets of genuine Americans - where it belongs.
Heck, if they want to sell 'em here they should BUILD 'EM HERE! That goes for the Domestics as well. I'll believe Toyota really cares about America when they build a huge car plant in North Philly.
That's because the American makers are far less efficient with labor (and THAT is largely due to the union). What company can long endure while not trying to be efficient when its competitors are doing better? Do you really believe that maintaining inefficiencies is the path to prosperity for this country?
Well said...and you can't buy your way into prosperity on credit. Things balance out. The big 3 or undergoing the re-balancing that is a long time coming.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - with the kind of experience you've had with American cars you'd be nuts to buy anything else. Of course it doesn't hurt that your tastes run exactly where American cars excel.
Last Caddy i drove was my dad's last DeVille. Probably a 2001. I actually enjoyed that one. Had that one ended up as dad's last car I probably would have bought it just to have his last car. Unfortunately he went from that to a Buick Century that he never liked and didn't do much for me either. It got turned back in about a year ago.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
It would be quite a drop from going to a Cadillac DeVille to a recent Buick Century. Recent Centuries had such austere interiors, they made a 1960s Chevrolet Biscayne look luxurious in comparison.
The Buick LaCrosse was a vast improvement over the Century/Regal. I've seen recent pictures of the next LaCrosse based on the Invicta concept that makes me want to consider a LaCrosse for myself if my '88 Park Ave ever dies. So far, I'm extremely happy with my new Cadillac DTS Performance.
Unfortunately he went from that to a Buick Century that he never liked and didn't do much for me either. It got turned back in about a year ago.
I think that's the kind of car where, if I needed a car and the price was right, I'd be willing to put up with it. A few years back, when my Dad was looking for a car, and we found this used '03 Regal LS for something like $10,995, I told him that if he didn't buy it, I would! I mean, I still prefer my Intrepid to it, but at the time the Trep was pushing about 86,000 miles, while this thing only had 19,500 on it.
I think Buick firmed up the suspension a bit on the Regal though. I've never driven a Century from the '97-05 generation, but I heard they're really sloppy and vague.
Dad doesn't drive a whole lot, and after 5 years, I think he FINALLY hit the 50,000 mile mark. The last time I saw him, for some reason he was complaining about the sloppy build quality of the car, like how the panels fit together and such. I didn't say anything but here I'm thinking wait...you've had this car for HOW long now, and you're just noticing that?! I was tempted to ask him if he's started hanging out with Honda and Toyota owners, because that was the first time I ever heard him mentioning build quality/fit and finish on a car!
Still, he's happy with it, and doesn't regret buying it. I think it was actually a pretty decent car that was "almost there". If GM had just paid a bit more attention to build quality, and maybe threw an extra 50 bucks per car at the interior, they could've had a really nice car.
The Century wasn't awful but it just cried out for better attention in the interior. Dad wanted something smaller than the DeVilles he'd been leasing and after a long time poking finally pulled the trigger on the Century and almost immediately regretted it. Until he stopped driving he'd keep saying how he should have bought that last DeVille at the end of the lease. Oh, well.
He probably would have liked the LaCrosse which was just coming out.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
If GM does away with the Buick nameplate in NA, that's one thing, but what makes you think they would be Chinese built if they keep the nameplate here?? The next gen Lacrosse will be built here on the Epsillon II platform.
I agree with the issue of Mexican built cars, but not Canada, for the simple reason that while neither country has their own auto mfr., at least Canadians BUY our cars, while the old Beetle was for years Mexico's most popular car.
As far as the money the Big 3 spend on benefits, the new contract signed makes the difference in costs under $700 per car, so close that Toyota is looking at ways of cutting costs in this country to keep their advantage. Imagine that; the union negotiates AWAY something, and automatically non-union companies look to take things away.
The article linked in this post talks about more than just the affect of unions on American cars but it's a good way to air out the UAW discussion for a while.
you mean other than they already are building and selling them (apparently succesfullly) over there where the Buick name is quite well received? I'll generally agree with your comment about sending our money to Canada is likely preferable to sending it south - however, why should we be having to send it anywhere over any border.
Maybe a nice little consumer boycott of any and all cars not assembled with US labor - with parts also not at least 75% made in this country might just make a point.
There's not much I can say to this. If your experience with american cars has been good, and you prefer their styling, by all means continue to buy them. I know others who have good experiences too. Statistically, there's no comparison though. Any given car may not mirror the population, but your odds of getting a lemon are greater with an american car. There are plenty of subjective qualities to cars - styling, color, etc, these are simply a matter of taste. I don't agree with you about the american versus foreign styling in general, but I admit this is pure opinion. Depreciation is another huge factor - its the greatest expense in owning a car period. The american cars do not due well here.
lemko: I'll believe Toyota really cares about America when they build a huge car plant in North Philly.
No car company will build a brand-new plant in a Northeastern city in this day and age. The cost of land is too high, and there is too much congestion (which makes delivering necessary parts and materials to the facility more difficult, and thus expensive). Taxes are too high as well.
Those other factors effectively take Philadelphia off the table as a location for a new plant before any concerns about unions even enter the picture...
I really am amazed at the opinions scattered around on this board..Your political views are somewhat transparent...If the left hand party gets in, the unions will have a free rein to organize the Asian plants, and satisfy the UAW crowd..That will make Conyers, Levin, Dingell, and Stabenow heroes to the working class once again..The aformentioned politicans of the State of Michigan were behind the fall of the BIG3 by going along with their leftist buddies on drilling bans as well as the Global Warming kooks..First, they had to kill the SUV, which they knew was Detroit's bread and butter..cash cow..The alternate energy grab bag is a real can of worms and us taxpayers are footing the bill, ethanol is a farce, it consumes more energy and shafts the consumer..
The next generation of autos will be not be pleasing for the motoring public..just a pain in backside, lots of battery talk, limited range, gutless wonders, and please don't get in an accident for it will not be pretty..
Somebody on this forum stated that the [non-permissible content removed] really care about the American market and us as consumers..The money goes back to Japan and their bank accounts..The purchasers of Asian cars support the economic backbone of the respective foreign govt whether it be Japan or Korea..The Big3 were forced to go to Mexico to stay somewhat competitive..The UAW milked the guts out of Detroit's Big3, however it was a long run and I made a great living dealing with the Big3 and it's suppliers..
I have lost some money in the current Stock Market swoon, however I guess I got lucky because most of my cash was in the Govt Reserve Fund which has been locked for redemption since Sept 16th..and will be paid out 100% next week plus interest..My Michigan properties will find a buyer and my foreclosure lien against a big time developer will be paid..
My next purchase will be a 2009 Mustang GT Bullitt, pricing is improving weekly, the deal is looking better.. Average MPG is around 20...It will be gassed with old fashion non-ethanol 93 octane..You people worry about the climate change for I could give a "hoot", about what comes out of the exhaust pipe..Mother Nature will take care of the earth, not liberals, for they are only interested in your money..
Be an American, buy the Detroit Iron and put Americans back to work..Your UAW pals will make obscene paychecks again and the country will heal..Without Detroit manufacturing the American hertiage will be only a distant memory
You can argue about who makes the greatest car later, one should worry about saving the country first..Under the current conditions I would feel guilty about wheeling around in a foreign car of Asian origin..The Europeans don't really bother me since their output is small compared to the total picture..I had my 2 Porsches, great cars, and the 41 Big3 cars owned did their job well.
Before election, you should worry about your 401k, for I understand that BHO will take it and add it to your SS account, invested at 3% so you can start drawing from it at retirement..The Govt will own it. I am sure glad that I am 75 and don't have to put up with the "CHANGE", mantra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2010 Lacrosse will be built HERE, as will any Lucerne replacement I am sure that's the plan with GM and Chrysler teetering on the edge - apparently now trying to get in line for some of that 'freebie' government money http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399190 that both you and I have contributed over the years - it is difficult for GM to make any claims about anything, including one that would even allow for Buick to continue to exist (in this country) - the subject of this post. Indeed if our erstwhile governemnt is going to push several $billion GMs way, it may be the government that effectively decides whether Buick is worth keeping. The std Lacrosse in China is supplied with a 4 banger - something hard to comprehend (0-60 in 12-15 seconds?) so, of course, the Lacrosse doesn't make it over here - in that form. The question really is - how long do you suppose it will be before even GM realizes that IF it wants to continue losing money selling Buicks that it just might lose less importing them from China - the plants etc. are already in place, and the unlimited cheap labor pool over there won't have UAW affliations. Would also guess that ROC is very protectivewhen somebody like GM wants to come in there and start building cars - by limiting the amount of money that GM is allowed to take out of the country by those monies invested. It may be later than your 2010 date, but my guess is we've seen the last of Buick and possibly even Pontiac, GM will eventually become Chevy only and even that with a much smaller line than they have now, mostly concentrated in trucks and SUVs.
My experience has been that if you buy Domestic cars new or fairly new, and drive them for less than 60,000 miles before trading them off, you will most likely be very happy with them, and have no complaints. In fact, you may prefer the size and features of a Domestic car over an Asian or other foreign car. Personally, I do. However, if you want to keep a car until it has a couple hundred thousand miles on it, you will prefer an Asian car for sure. The statistics bear this out, resale bears this out, and any honest driver with experience of both will back it up. If you want to drive a car with 175,000 on the clock, your odds will be much better with a Honda than a Dodge.
I love my GM cars and I love my country! I want to see both GM and the U.S. prosper. What's good for GM is good for the United States. What's bad for GM is also bad for the United States.
I immensely enjoy my new Cadillac DTS Performance! Looking forward to another Cadillac in the future...if there is one (Cadillac and/or a future).
motorcity6: Be an American, buy the Detroit Iron and put Americans back to work..
Funny, but the last time I checked, a fair percentage of Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans and Hyundais are being built in places like Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, Ohio, Tennessee and Texas.
Are not the employees of those plants Americans?
Or did those states secede from the union while I wasn't looking?
motorcity6: Your UAW pals will make obscene paychecks again and the country will heal...
So, buy a Chevy, and all will be well. I'm surprised that neither Obama nor McCain came up with that slogan.
motorcity6: You can argue about who makes the greatest car later, one should worry about saving the country first..
Given the sales figures, trends in market share, and rankings of various models in publications as disparate as Car & Driver and Consumer Reports, I don't think we need to argue that one...it has been pretty well decided. The market has spoken.
motorcity6: Under the current conditions I would feel guilty about wheeling around in a foreign car of Asian origin..
Under current conditions, I would be embarrassed to be a GM executive or UAW official.
But then, after posting on this and other auto-related sites over the past eight years, if there is one thing I've learned, it's this:
Nothing is ever Detroit's fault. Blame can be laid squarely at the feet of (take your pick): Consumer Reports, people who buy Toyotas and Hondas, the Bush Administration, environmentalists, commie-pinkos who read The New York Times, free trade....have I missed any?
I'd probably be happier if those Hondas, Nissans, Hyundais, and Toyotas were built in places like North Philly, Camden, Trenton, and Allentown - places that were devasted by deindustrialization and the outsourcing of jobs to Asia. I'd also be happier if they unionized their workforces. I hear that things really aren't all that working for Toyota. Newer workers are treated as temps almost forever and older workers are pretty much treated as disposable commodities.
In lieu of that, they should at least build all the vehicles they sell in the U.S in the U.S. This goes for the domestics as well. I'm as likely to buy a Mexican-manufactured Fusion as I am a Japanese-manufactured Toyota.
If I'm reading into 62 vette's post on GM news correctly, the Park Ave you pointed out is actually a relative to the Pontiac G8, which is produced in Austrailia now, and is slated to be produced here at some time. It can be had w/ GM's 2.0 turbo DI engine which puts out 276 hp in the Solstice GXP and Cobalt SS, both of which are SOLD HERE, so it would actually be CHEAPER to produce HERE, as it would then be shared with the G8 and Impala replacement, if they get a go ahead to build them as RWD. If they sell over 100,000 combined, they MUST be built here as per UAW contract rules, I believe.
Also, China requires that any company selling cars there partner oup w/ a LOCAL auto mfr. In this case, GM is partnered up w/ SAIC out of Shanghai. SO any money GM makes there, SAIC benefits just as well.
Nothing is ever Detroit's fault. Blame can be laid squarely at the feet of (take your pick): Consumer Reports, people who buy Toyotas and Hondas, the Bush Administration, environmentalists, commie-pinkos who read The New York Times, free trade....have I missed any?
How could you have forgotten the Asian currency manipulation? Oh the humanity!
the Australian connection sounds right because not only are we getting G8s over there but also the soon to be new Impala. Oh well, more Americans (and Canadians) out of work I guess. Building cars in Australia obviously not doing anybody in this country any good either. As far as violating any UAW deals go - so what? - what would you think the UAW's remedy would be in some sort of lawsuit - a bid arss judgement that would only hasten GMs bankruptcy?
First of all, the G8 is built there while GM converts a plant HERE to build them.
Secondly, the agreement says that if cars are to be sold here in big numbers (I believe over 100,000) they have to be built here. Why wouldn't you want that??
I've owned a Ford, Dodge, and a Chevy. Not to happy with Chevy's tho. I just have a preference for American cars. Growing up, my grandpa always told us to always go with American cars. Guess it stuck with me.
For "better value" you have to compare the cost of ownership over time, not the purchase price. Factor in depreciation and the American cars sadly get killed.
"Factor in depreciation and the American cars sadly get killed. "
Or do they??? When these studies show percentages of depreciation, it is vs. MSRP, and not actual selling price. So depreciation rates aren't as bad as you'd think. Now, if you want to debate why a Toyota sells for closer to MSRP than a Chevy, THAT'S a different story altogether.
yes and no - because resale value percentages vs. actual price or real street price mean absolutely nothing - it has always been about the total dollars it costs to own anything over a defineable period of time - meaning how much you actually pay for something vs. how much you can sell it for later - in gross dollars. What percentage that resale value might be of MSRP or anything else is unimportant - obviously what IS important, the total dollars lost. The BMW is a car that maintains one of the better resale values in the industry in terms of %residual value - but are also quite expensive to own because the gross dollars of depreciation is quite high. Those 2 sedan favorites, the Accord and the Camry both sell for competitively higher initial prices, have good resale values (much like the BMW) but both usually lead the pack when it comes to true operating expense - the gross dollars lost is less primarily because the the initial price is less. 'American' cars tend to sell new at a lower price than their 'Japanese' counterparts so therefore they must also have a lower resale value - and vice versa. The truth of the matter is that over the shorter term (up to about 5 years) and/or on leases the 'Japanese' cars can very easily be less expensive to own than the cheaper 'American' car. If you subscribe to the the contention that there is no real long term reliability differences in most cars these days and are willing to drive that car for a long time then the equation will swing very decidedly into the favor of anything that costs less to buy up front - be it American or Korean (or whatever). Statistics, though, tell us that the average car BUYER is keeping a car 4-5 years and overall 'ownership' periods are even less than that when you also consider the 2 to 4 year terms of leases these days.
It amazes me how many people miss the point. When considering Japanese vs. American, consider these two rules I live by.
#1. Don't finance cars!! (pay a note to yourself until you can pay cash.) #2. If you and I can buy two similar cars, but I can pay 5 grand less up front, I will always pick the lower cost car. Take the 5 grand and invest it to appreciate, not depreciate.
So now someone please tell me how you paying more for a car up front is a better deal than me paying less and investing the difference in something that grows. Even something with low growth like a savings account is better than a depreciating car.
I don't care if it's American, Japanese, Korean, or Mexican made. It's your money, spend it how you want. But saying you're making the smart choice by buying Japanese due to resale value or reliability is not reality. It's one way of justifying your purchase decision. Reality is that all cars are VERY BAD investments. The more you invest in one, the less cash you have to put into a "good" investment.
Agreed, and since all cars are bad INVESTMENTS, getting one that is second rate hurts all the more. I won't even start with the cost of gas comparison which leads to even more pain if you choose unwisely.
1. Bad Investment 2. Car is unreliable 3. Car costs more to run over time.
investing price differences certainly more fiscally responsible despite the fact that 'investing' has proven to be a great way to loose money lately just like that depreciating automobile. Very, very few of us have any sort of capability to pay cash for a car - so therefore this is all a somewhat unrealistic contention. But as far as cheaper being better I think you need to look over CRs reliability ratings in this Dec issue - they rate 47 cars as being 'most reliable' (based on their surveys, of course) and 40 of them are 'Japanese' primarily Hondas and Toyotas. The only American iron that even makes the list are the FoMoCo Fusion triplets made in Mexico. You can choose not to believe any of this, and then go out and buy the cheapest piece of Americana you can find - betting, of course, that the thing will run long enough for you to recover some of that investment you talk about before you have to spend it on repairs :confuse: This is what 'buying an American car' really means, even discounting the fact that fewer and fewer of them are made in this country anymore anyway..
"This is what 'buying an American car' really means, even discounting the fact that fewer and fewer of them are made in this country anymore anyway.. "
Do you really believe this? Most all big 3 are still built in the USA with a few in Canada and Mexico. Hardly any are imported anymore (Aveo at GM soon to be built here and G8 also to be built in Canada with next version).
Well, my "investments" are doing pretty well. My 1988 Buick Park Avenue is 21 years-old and my 1989 Cadillac Brougham is 20 years-old. My 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance and her 2005 Buick LaCrosse are also doing well.
Sheesh! A car is never an investment. It's just another thing you buy.
Some people don't consider Canada or Mexico American. The money on a car built in either of these places doesn't help out the US economy any more than a vehicle built in Japan or Germany.
think you might want to do some checking - a quite significant portion of the Big 3s' cars are made/assembled in Canada and Mexico. More and more of that production is moving out as UAW contracts allow for even more plant closings. Hell, Ford is actually using a good portion of the money ($23 billion) they borrowed on their 'junk' bonds largely to buy out employee contracts so they can close even more plants (14 last year) and put some more folks on the unemployment lines. In the meanwhile it is Toyota (and Honda and Nissan and even Hyundai) that are spending billions to build new plants here, thereby employing, even more Americans. Of course, not all 'American' cars are built overseas, but things have changed, are getting worse. The real reason why those Aveos you talk about can't be imported anymore is simply because the dollar is so weak., the same reason why the 'Japan 3' build plants here. The current and forseeable financial woes of GM/Ford/Chrysler will force even more of this as those manufacturers search for some way to actually make money. If the 'Big' 3' survive, it will be because of a government intervention/bailout in the case of GM and Chrysler and possibly only as a result of Ford's rather Draconian policies in recent years. Until the point that the 'Americans' get things straightened out, the carbuyer is putting more money in more American's pockets by buying a Camry or the like. For my part, I'd much rather be sending my money into Georgetown, Kentucky for example than I would be sending it into Mexico - or even Canada.
Comments
The advertising leads people to believe a much higher percent of total output for each brand is built here than actually is. Building here is good.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
you know this may all be true, it may indeed take 10 UAW employees to do what one employee can do in Kentucky, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas, and Alabama (to name a few) - a really sad commentary on an industry that the US (and the so called Big 3) dominated not that many years ago. Sure all those ludricrous pensions and free healthcare that the US makers count - for whatever portion of the overall economic pie that really is BUT when GM, for example, is spending $2500.00 PER CAR to fund these programs and that also happens to be about what they lose on every car they sell - there is something definitely wrong with this picture.
Ford, closes dozens of plants in recent years, buys out the contracts of many of those employed at these plants, so they too can reap the rewards of these negotiated pension programs AFTER they spend their unemployment checks that you and I both funded. And after they do all that to us, then they seek some justification for injecting so more pesos down south of the border? Gimme a break.
Ford is a Mexican car manufacturer, Buick will shortly be a Chinese one and then, they expect me to spend my hard earned $ on generally inferior products, watch that money disappear into other economies - and all because the brand names don't happen to end in a vowel??? Thanks anyway, I think I know a way to get some real value for my money and most importantly put more of that money back into the pockets of genuine Americans - where it belongs.
Well said...and you can't buy your way into prosperity on credit. Things balance out. The big 3 or undergoing the re-balancing that is a long time coming.
Regards,
OW
Sounds like the formula is as complex as the risk aversion on CDS's!
Regards,
OW
Last Caddy i drove was my dad's last DeVille. Probably a 2001. I actually enjoyed that one. Had that one ended up as dad's last car I probably would have bought it just to have his last car. Unfortunately he went from that to a Buick Century that he never liked and didn't do much for me either. It got turned back in about a year ago.
The Buick LaCrosse was a vast improvement over the Century/Regal. I've seen recent pictures of the next LaCrosse based on the Invicta concept that makes me want to consider a LaCrosse for myself if my '88 Park Ave ever dies. So far, I'm extremely happy with my new Cadillac DTS Performance.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/topic/sns-ap-as-china-factory-woes,0,5598442.story
I think that's the kind of car where, if I needed a car and the price was right, I'd be willing to put up with it. A few years back, when my Dad was looking for a car, and we found this used '03 Regal LS for something like $10,995, I told him that if he didn't buy it, I would! I mean, I still prefer my Intrepid to it, but at the time the Trep was pushing about 86,000 miles, while this thing only had 19,500 on it.
I think Buick firmed up the suspension a bit on the Regal though. I've never driven a Century from the '97-05 generation, but I heard they're really sloppy and vague.
Dad doesn't drive a whole lot, and after 5 years, I think he FINALLY hit the 50,000 mile mark. The last time I saw him, for some reason he was complaining about the sloppy build quality of the car, like how the panels fit together and such. I didn't say anything but here I'm thinking wait...you've had this car for HOW long now, and you're just noticing that?! I was tempted to ask him if he's started hanging out with Honda and Toyota owners, because that was the first time I ever heard him mentioning build quality/fit and finish on a car!
Still, he's happy with it, and doesn't regret buying it. I think it was actually a pretty decent car that was "almost there". If GM had just paid a bit more attention to build quality, and maybe threw an extra 50 bucks per car at the interior, they could've had a really nice car.
He probably would have liked the LaCrosse which was just coming out.
I agree with the issue of Mexican built cars, but not Canada, for the simple reason that while neither country has their own auto mfr., at least Canadians BUY our cars, while the old Beetle was for years Mexico's most popular car.
As far as the money the Big 3 spend on benefits, the new contract signed makes the difference in costs under $700 per car, so close that Toyota is looking at ways of cutting costs in this country to keep their advantage. Imagine that; the union negotiates AWAY something, and automatically non-union companies look to take things away.
tlong, "United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)" #4595, 25 Oct 2008 3:21 pm
you mean other than they already are building and selling them (apparently succesfullly) over there where the Buick name is quite well received? I'll generally agree with your comment about sending our money to Canada is likely preferable to sending it south - however, why should we be having to send it anywhere over any border.
Maybe a nice little consumer boycott of any and all cars not assembled with US labor - with parts also not at least 75% made in this country might just make a point.
http://autoreview.belproject.com/item/371
for the 'Chinese Buick' info.
The 2010 Lacrosse will be built HERE, as will any Lucerne replacement.
There is also Buick talk at "The Rebirth of Buick" as well.
No car company will build a brand-new plant in a Northeastern city in this day and age. The cost of land is too high, and there is too much congestion (which makes delivering necessary parts and materials to the facility more difficult, and thus expensive). Taxes are too high as well.
The next generation of autos will be not be pleasing for the motoring public..just a pain in backside, lots of battery talk, limited range, gutless wonders, and please don't get in an accident for it will not be pretty..
Somebody on this forum stated that the [non-permissible content removed] really care about the American market and us as consumers..The money goes back to Japan and their bank accounts..The purchasers of Asian cars support the economic backbone of the respective foreign govt whether it be Japan or Korea..The Big3 were forced to go to Mexico to stay somewhat competitive..The UAW milked the guts out of Detroit's Big3, however it was a long run and I made a great living dealing with the Big3 and it's suppliers..
I have lost some money in the current Stock Market swoon, however I guess I got lucky because most of my cash was in the Govt Reserve Fund which has been locked for redemption since Sept 16th..and will be paid out 100% next week plus interest..My Michigan properties will find a buyer and my foreclosure lien against a big time developer will be paid..
My next purchase will be a 2009 Mustang GT Bullitt, pricing is improving weekly, the deal is looking better.. Average MPG is around 20...It will be gassed with old fashion non-ethanol 93 octane..You people worry about the climate change for I could give a "hoot", about what comes out of the exhaust pipe..Mother Nature will take care of the earth, not liberals, for they are only interested in your money..
Be an American, buy the Detroit Iron and put Americans back to work..Your UAW pals will make obscene paychecks again and the country will heal..Without Detroit manufacturing the American hertiage will be only a distant memory
You can argue about who makes the greatest car later, one should worry about saving the country first..Under the current conditions I would feel guilty about wheeling around in a foreign car of Asian origin..The Europeans don't really bother me since their output is small compared to the total picture..I had my 2 Porsches, great cars, and the 41 Big3 cars owned did their job well.
Before election, you should worry about your 401k, for I understand that BHO will take it and add it to your SS account, invested at 3% so you can start drawing from it at retirement..The Govt will own it. I am sure glad that I am 75 and don't have to put up with the "CHANGE", mantra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Who owns the media?
The politics thread is that way ---->
I am sure that's the plan
with GM and Chrysler teetering on the edge - apparently now trying to get in line for some of that 'freebie' government money
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399190
that both you and I have contributed over the years - it is difficult for GM to make any claims about anything, including one that would even allow for Buick to continue to exist (in this country) - the subject of this post. Indeed if our erstwhile governemnt is going to push several $billion GMs way, it may be the government that effectively decides whether Buick is worth keeping.
The std Lacrosse in China is supplied with a 4 banger - something hard to comprehend (0-60 in 12-15 seconds?) so, of course, the Lacrosse doesn't make it over here - in that form.
The question really is - how long do you suppose it will be before even GM realizes that IF it wants to continue losing money selling Buicks that it just might lose less importing them from China - the plants etc. are already in place, and the unlimited cheap labor pool over there won't have UAW affliations. Would also guess that ROC is very protectivewhen somebody like GM wants to come in there and start building cars - by limiting the amount of money that GM is allowed to take out of the country by those monies invested.
It may be later than your 2010 date, but my guess is we've seen the last of Buick and possibly even Pontiac, GM will eventually become Chevy only and even that with a much smaller line than they have now, mostly concentrated in trucks and SUVs.
I immensely enjoy my new Cadillac DTS Performance! Looking forward to another Cadillac in the future...if there is one (Cadillac and/or a future).
Funny, but the last time I checked, a fair percentage of Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans and Hyundais are being built in places like Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, Ohio, Tennessee and Texas.
Are not the employees of those plants Americans?
Or did those states secede from the union while I wasn't looking?
motorcity6: Your UAW pals will make obscene paychecks again and the country will heal...
So, buy a Chevy, and all will be well. I'm surprised that neither Obama nor McCain came up with that slogan.
motorcity6: You can argue about who makes the greatest car later, one should worry about saving the country first..
Given the sales figures, trends in market share, and rankings of various models in publications as disparate as Car & Driver and Consumer Reports, I don't think we need to argue that one...it has been pretty well decided. The market has spoken.
motorcity6: Under the current conditions I would feel guilty about wheeling around in a foreign car of Asian origin..
Under current conditions, I would be embarrassed to be a GM executive or UAW official.
But then, after posting on this and other auto-related sites over the past eight years, if there is one thing I've learned, it's this:
Nothing is ever Detroit's fault. Blame can be laid squarely at the feet of (take your pick): Consumer Reports, people who buy Toyotas and Hondas, the Bush Administration, environmentalists, commie-pinkos who read The New York Times, free trade....have I missed any?
In lieu of that, they should at least build all the vehicles they sell in the U.S in the U.S. This goes for the domestics as well. I'm as likely to buy a Mexican-manufactured Fusion as I am a Japanese-manufactured Toyota.
Also, China requires that any company selling cars there partner oup w/ a LOCAL auto mfr. In this case, GM is partnered up w/ SAIC out of Shanghai. SO any money GM makes there, SAIC benefits just as well.
How could you have forgotten the Asian currency manipulation? Oh the humanity!
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2010-buick-lacrosse.htm
As far as violating any UAW deals go - so what? - what would you think the UAW's remedy would be in some sort of lawsuit - a bid arss judgement that would only hasten GMs bankruptcy?
Secondly, the agreement says that if cars are to be sold here in big numbers (I believe over 100,000) they have to be built here. Why wouldn't you want that??
All plans are on hold now...we will see.
Regards,
OW
Or do they??? When these studies show percentages of depreciation, it is vs. MSRP, and not actual selling price. So depreciation rates aren't as bad as you'd think. Now, if you want to debate why a Toyota sells for closer to MSRP than a Chevy, THAT'S a different story altogether.
You can put your money on American. It's still a free country. Hope their cars improve, though.
Regards,
OW
'American' cars tend to sell new at a lower price than their 'Japanese' counterparts so therefore they must also have a lower resale value - and vice versa. The truth of the matter is that over the shorter term (up to about 5 years) and/or on leases the 'Japanese' cars can very easily be less expensive to own than the cheaper 'American' car.
If you subscribe to the the contention that there is no real long term reliability differences in most cars these days and are willing to drive that car for a long time then the equation will swing very decidedly into the favor of anything that costs less to buy up front - be it American or Korean (or whatever). Statistics, though, tell us that the average car BUYER is keeping a car 4-5 years and overall 'ownership' periods are even less than that when you also consider the 2 to 4 year terms of leases these days.
#1. Don't finance cars!! (pay a note to yourself until you can pay cash.)
#2. If you and I can buy two similar cars, but I can pay 5 grand less up front, I will always pick the lower cost car. Take the 5 grand and invest it to appreciate, not depreciate.
So now someone please tell me how you paying more for a car up front is a better deal than me paying less and investing the difference in something that grows. Even something with low growth like a savings account is better than a depreciating car.
I don't care if it's American, Japanese, Korean, or Mexican made. It's your money, spend it how you want. But saying you're making the smart choice by buying Japanese due to resale value or reliability is not reality. It's one way of justifying your purchase decision. Reality is that all cars are VERY BAD investments. The more you invest in one, the less cash you have to put into a "good" investment.
Tada. It's quite simple.
to even more pain if you choose unwisely.
1. Bad Investment 2. Car is unreliable 3. Car costs more to run over time.
Choose wisely, grasshopper.
Regards,
OW
But as far as cheaper being better I think you need to look over CRs reliability ratings in this Dec issue - they rate 47 cars as being 'most reliable' (based on their surveys, of course) and 40 of them are 'Japanese' primarily Hondas and Toyotas. The only American iron that even makes the list are the FoMoCo Fusion triplets made in Mexico. You can choose not to believe any of this, and then go out and buy the cheapest piece of Americana you can find - betting, of course, that the thing will run long enough for you to recover some of that investment you talk about before you have to spend it on repairs :confuse:
This is what 'buying an American car' really means, even discounting the fact that fewer and fewer of them are made in this country anymore anyway..
Do you really believe this? Most all big 3 are still built in the USA with a few in Canada and Mexico. Hardly any are imported anymore (Aveo at GM soon to be built here and G8 also to be built in Canada with next version).
Sheesh! A car is never an investment. It's just another thing you buy.
More and more of that production is moving out as UAW contracts allow for even more plant closings. Hell, Ford is actually using a good portion of the money ($23 billion) they borrowed on their 'junk' bonds largely to buy out employee contracts so they can close even more plants (14 last year) and put some more folks on the unemployment lines. In the meanwhile it is Toyota (and Honda and Nissan and even Hyundai) that are spending billions to build new plants here, thereby employing, even more Americans. Of course, not all 'American' cars are built overseas, but things have changed, are getting worse. The real reason why those Aveos you talk about can't be imported anymore is simply because the dollar is so weak., the same reason why the 'Japan 3' build plants here.
The current and forseeable financial woes of GM/Ford/Chrysler will force even more of this as those manufacturers search for some way to actually make money. If the 'Big' 3' survive, it will be because of a government intervention/bailout in the case of GM and Chrysler and possibly only as a result of Ford's rather Draconian policies in recent years. Until the point that the 'Americans' get things straightened out, the carbuyer is putting more money in more American's pockets by buying a Camry or the like. For my part, I'd much rather be sending my money into Georgetown, Kentucky for example than I would be sending it into Mexico - or even Canada.
The transformation will be far faster. Probably 50-60% of both companies products will go away either way.
In the meantime, the "Asians Built Here" should be at the top of the sales numbers in 2009 vs. the Old Big Three.
Regards,
OW