First, anything that can fit in the trunk of my Park Ave IS a little metal can :P
Second, in spite of you THINKING they lack skill, if Honda makes so much money on them, and the Civic is put together as well as you guys claim, then maybe the workers DESERVE more than $15/ hr.
You think that them being put together so well has to do with the design and engineering maybe? Inserting Tab A into Slot B, wash, rinse, repeat, is not skilled labor.
Just for comparison, an entry-level job in information technology, doing operations, PC, and network troubleshooting and such, makes $15 per hour in my area of the Hudson Valley, which is a fairly high-rent area for the suburbs. That job requires an education in information technology. $15 per hour for unskilled labor jobs on an assembly line is quite good as a starting salary, especially when it's not in McMansion-ville.
By the way, the term "skilled" and "unskilled" labor are not judgments on actual skill; they're technical terms indicating the level of training and vetting they have to go through to be in the profession. Most contractors, particularly electrical and plumbing for example, are considered skilled labor. They had to get educated, study, and be certified or licensed in their trade. Unskilled labor is typically when Joe Bloe can step off the street, be shown how to do a particular task, and then do it. It's a lot more complex than that, but that's the general gist of it.
Don't get me started on the IT theme. What is disgusting to me is the thought that someone making that $15/hr, with their education, would have their job threatened by someone in India making $400/mo. We can tarriff a car, but how do you tarriff a service???
Hey, it's my field. I could have chosen an example I knew nothing about, but then I'd look like an idiot. :shades: Luckily, my particular job isn't threatened by that in any way, though many of the entry-level operations-type jobs are.
Interesting parallel with what the UAW is afraid of by the way, but the IT business responded by becoming more competitive to keep more of the jobs here. The UAW...I don't have a problem with unions in general, but the UAW seems to just have issues sometimes. That's the really sad part, because American labor really IS the best in the world on a per-dollar basis, except when it comes to UAW workers, it seems.
I figured as much. It just gets my gall to think that someone could spend tens of thousands of dollars on an education, only to be undercut by someone who makes literally a fraction of what you make. Pretty soon we'll need a Phd just to get a job at Mcdonalds.
Actually quality cars are often smaller and building a car lighter requires more engineering and expense for materials. If you believe your Park Ave to be of higher build quality and drive ability, that is your own reality. To each his own.
As for wages, it is the market for workers with the ability to do that particular work which will set the wage, unless you are talking socialism, communism or union scales. I would imagine somewhere between $15 and $25 per hour to make sense for the job at hand - in other words, that is what I would expect to make.
Exactly, the Union is designed to manipulate the market and set wages artificially higher than the market will normally allow. Good for the worker, right up to the day when there is no longer a job for you because the industry has gone bust.
You know this is stuff I hate to hear, as if the unions had horns or something. Why is it all of a sudden if there's a union the onus is 100% on the union to set the out-of-market wage, instead of the goofball at the car company that was dumb enough to sign a contract agreeing to it?
It's up to the car company to determine what pay rate is profitable to pay their employees at. If they screw up that math it's THEIR fault, because union or no, they'd likely pay their employees too much (kinda like they're paying most of their non-union execs too much right now, for example).
Now, mind you, the union isn't helping with the jobs bank and all...they're not innocent. But there's no way they should be carrying 100% or even 51% of the guilt.
"I figured as much. It just gets my gall to think that someone could spend tens of thousands of dollars on an education, only to be undercut by someone who makes literally a fraction of what you make. "
Article in paper yesterday that lawyer work is being outsourced to India. Contracts go over there and they have rows of Indian lawyers going through them looking for errors. Guess that is a good thing. May soon not have any lawyers here.
Naww that will not happen. Most of DC is lawyers and they will stop that somehow. Probably say it is not safe to have overseas labor looking at important contracts. May bring our country down it they make a mistake.
Legal research has been outsourced for decades. It's gone from the associates in the office to the 2nd and 3rd year law students to India. It's been shipped over there for at least 5 years - I remember bugging Bob/Marsha7 about it a couple of years ago. The guys in DC just mark it up 1,000% (Bob just marks it up 200%, lol).
Follow the money.
Time to play favorites? The automakers "agendas are diverging as they contemplate futures as drastically different car companies."
UAW: Signaling More Concessions GM: Deeper Cuts, Possible Brand Eliminations Ford: Focus on Fuel Economy Chrysler: Looking for a Partner While Squabbling with Daimler
It's a laugh when our Congress thinks they know more about building cars than Detroit..Granted our folks in the Motorcity have made some mistakes, but to be insulted by our congressional folks is pure hypocrisy..Our congress clowns never held a job in the real business world and we are letting them decide the future of our manufacturing base..Get real!!!! Class envy and class warfare--Autos are pure politics---Without lobbyist to pad their $160,000 congressional salary, these clowns would be lucky to make $10.00/hr in the business world..
The American/Detroit auto has become 100% political..
Solution: Let the UAW agree to 19.50/hr, full health benefits and no pension..Existing workers can take a buyout of $50,000 max depending on yrs of employment, and hit the bricks..
No gravy train lasts forever, you just take while the pot of gold is there, and go on with life..
Isn't the EPA political, and the auto BS coming out of California all enclosed in Politics???????????????????
The Bullitt runs like a champ, very smooth up to triple digits, perfect wheel balance and zippo driveline vibration..The 5-speed gearbox is smooth, however I would prefer an automatic..In reflection, my 71 SS350 Camaro still has the edge on the Bullitt, it was a great ride, those 90k miles in 18 mos with the Turbo-hydramatic slicing the shifts..Inflation--the SS350 stickered around $3,500 and the Bullitt was around $33,000..
I see where Ford on the 2010 models is using the Bullitt 315 HP and offering a performance pkg consisting of items from the Bullitt parts bin..I choose the Bullitt mainly due to the suspension goodies, lacking from the std GT..
It seems to draw a crowd, so that means it is subject to vandalism and that means it's a day car only..Got to keep the insurance company happy, no political stickers for it might just upset someone for a friendily scratch across the painted surfaces..
Well, I just got my PhD in Fryology from MIT last month and I'm furthering my studies in burger engineering. I also specialized in shake processing analysis at Cornell...
Isn't the EPA political, and the auto BS coming out of California all enclosed in Politics?
Good post, fair and balanced. I only put political stickers on my beater PU truck. Too many wackos allowed to run free here in LaLa Land.
You are right that Our Congress is clueless about business, though they are the best money can buy. Every bit of legislation can be traced to a political contribution.
It's a laugh when our Congress thinks they know more about building cars than Detroit
Not so much of a laugh these days, when Detroit is hemorrhaging money faster than Washington. Fact is, if the government (meaning us the taxpayers) is going to buy a stake in these auto companies (my much preferred method of "bailing out" companies...loans suck) then they have a right to a say in how the company is run, same as us if we bought stock directly.
That being said, I agree with your solution on the UAW side...given today's job market and health care costs, that's a fairly sweet deal for both sides. You should seriously write your Congress-critters and let them know that that should be a condition. Matter of fact, I think I'll do that myself.
Purdue is a great school, however was too close to Monticello, so I switched to Univ of Arizona..Pure playground in the 50s. Indianapolis was always the home base for the family due to real estate and rental holdings, Monticello was the "get away" destination, complete quiet and never ending work.. "Tippecanoe Springs" was the name of the farm and lake frontage., south of Monticello, had a large stone barn on the farm side which is a wine bar today as I understand.. South on Airport Rd..
Lake Freeman was created in 1925 after the completion of the Oakdale Dam on the south end as we had Norway Dam on the north end. Approx 12 miles between dams was the length of Freeman. Great boating lake and outstanding fishing combined with "no Public Access" made it a private and residential lake.
My family become involved in the early 1920's with the purchase of the farm and frontage on the Tippecanoe River at that time. They ran a small fishing camp as a hobby and had a tenant farmer for the other side. When Freeman was created they sold approx 80 acres to the Northern Public Service. On Lake Freeman we had 5/8 of a mile of lake frontage. The fishing camp was disbanded during the early 40's when my older brothers went off to WWII. After the war the cottages were moved and we expanded our summer home, farming switched to sharecroppers. In 1952 our summer home was wrecked and a permanent dwelling was built. I left Monticello in 1957 to pursue other interests and my father sold the entire lake frontage and farm to a local car dealer. He kept 7 acres of lake frontage, high ground, which my stepmother had a house built on in 1971. We sold that off in 1988 and the last time I was near Monticello was 1973. I should have bought the house, but I was living in Detroit and couldn't figure out a way to survive in that great town of Monticello.
The Contour V-6 was a hot little car with the SVT adding to the excitement of ownership. The Contour really never took off like Ford had planned, some what small sized interior I guess..I remember trying to obtain some of the suspension components on the carline from a Canadian machining source..
Enough history, sorry for the personal side..
The Volt will not sell in any big numbers, trouble waiting..The ethanol producers are taking a blood bath during these low pump prices---too bad
The amateur conspiracy theorists at work are telling me the recent low gas prices are a plot by the oil companies to drive the producers of ethanol and developers of alternative energy out of business - that they fear both will be successful and topple Big Oil. :confuse:
It's not amateur, nor is it a theory. The Saudis came out and said that they were concerned that if the price stayed too high it would impact oil use to a large degree. Presumably that would be because alternatives would become more cost-effective in addition to people simply curtailing their use of gasoline. So it's not too far of a reach..similar enough to large companies selling products at a loss to drive a smaller competitor out of business, which has been done many times.
But if you want complaining rights, you want Korean iron, since they'll stand by their product for 10 years, something the domestics don't want to do yet. Wish they would, good P/R decision that should boost immediate sales and not cost much to implement initially; the costs are all down the road, but by then they're out of the woods or out of business anyway.
I've been saying for years the domestics need to extend their warranties and stand behind their product equal to the Koreans with 10 year warranties and long bumper to bumper warranties, but no, they won't do it.
Why? I suspect because deep down they know their products are still crap.
Also, GM did extend their powertrain warranties (although not equal to the Koreans), and that is probably coming back to bite them really hard as it's been around for a few years now (when did it start) and may be a HUGE and main reason they are running in the red financially now. I didn't see how the Big 3 could extend their warranties and still make money, unless of course, they started selling Honda's and Toyotas.
I'm sure GM's warranty work expenditures accounting and logs are as cooked as Enron's books were.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I hope you youngsters keep on working hard and paying taxes to cover the bailouts along with my Medicare and SS checks..My lifestyle is depending on you all to cover the gas bills, insurance, villa maintenance fees, groceries, and property taxes. I will cover the balance of my living costs with the stock market games..
I had to fill-up the hungry GPGT with ethanol premium and lost 2 mpgs right now, what a farce the corny gas is!!!!
In reviewing the president-elect personnel picks and the choice of many exClintonites, I was truly disappointed to see that Sandy Berger was not selected for any document swapping/destroying cabinet position..The weasel would be a perfect choice..
See where Toy sales were down 34% last month, another bailout in the asking???
Another solution to the Big3 problem---$1500 tariff on every foreign transplant produced and sold in American..payable to our Treasury Dept...to pay for the bailout of the Big3..
Happy to hear Ford is healthy and will be able to replace any busted parts on the Bullitt...
Just maybe the American public will get the message, and boycott the Asian products..That's just nasty, isn't it!!!????
Never looked at a Korean Car, however, is the warranty transferable to the next party..Their names don't really set off any big desire to own..Resale on the Korean wheels is miserable, so I guess the warranty is a real come-on.
!00,000 mile warranties probably became a must for GM, however they aren't a big selling point to me..The most I ever had was on the Caddies, and had one engine replaced long after the warranty of 50k had gone south..free of charge..4.9 liter., piston slap when starting cold..no big deal..
The day I buy a Korean car is the day I rennounce my citizenship!!!!! Sorry, at 75, I not going to throw the Big3 under the bus.....
Kind of funny the banks and the big boys were bailed out quick with biggggg billions and the auto companies are grilled and sliced up for effect, a drama setting, total political spin...Stevey, it's all political!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, at 75, I not going to throw the Big3 under the bus.....
At 65 it looks to me like GM keeps crawling in front of the train. They haven't done anything right for nearly 40 years. They are no more American than some Korean cars. Their Aveo is made in Korea. Now if you are interested in bailing out Americans. How about the building contractors. They represent a LOT MORE American workers than the Big 3. They want some of this easy money also. Nothing more American than your home built by Americans in America.
I just read today that several states including CA have asked for over $100 billion to keep afloat. Heck I could use $25 for when the pizza guy gets here.
It got too hard snowbirding to Florida and more of their support system is there. But yeah, the winters get long. My downstairs is ready to convert at a moment's notice, and I could live with a spare Buick in the driveway.
I've been up to the UP a few times. Always in the summer. I remember seeing pictures up by the Mackinac bridge showing the area under multiple feet of snow. Just amazing.
i remember once looking on realtor.com at houses in Sault Ste Marie. I could live in a mansion there for what my house in NJ is worth. Of course I'd spend all my money heating it...
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
62: "Article in paper yesterday that lawyer work is being outsourced to India"...NO...NO...NO...say it isn't so... :sick: :mad:
Yeah, it had to happen...let's face it...if someone over there understands English, and it is a boilerplate contract, why not have someone check it for errors???...and even matters more complex...
While I rail at the union (UAW) for their stupid demands, I also realize that my field is also subject to price competition, and we don't like it either...but we are at least smart enough to acknowledge it exists and we have to compete to win...
I used to do real estate closings...we received $600 per closing, not great for the work involved, but it was OK...then someone down the street offered to do them for $300...I knew then that it was time to get out and let the cheapest guy win...I could not do it for $300 for the time involved...competition sucks, but it IS reality...
steve: yeah, you busted my chops, but when did I lower the markup to ONLY 200%???..... :P
" I also realize that my field is also subject to price competition, and we don't like it either...but we are at least smart enough to acknowledge it exists and we have to compete to win... "
I'm sorry Bob, but I'll have to partially disagree with you. I'ts one thing to have an AMERICAN LAWYER doing RE closings for less than you (or the $150 divorces), but someone in India doing legal work (I don't care how sublime it is) somehow is just plain WRONG. I mean, if they miss something YOU are still liable, as you would sign off on their work (not to say an American can't mess up).
I get the whole "global economy" thing, but I just have a problem w/ us being the world's caretaker when they won't take care of their own, and we haven't taken care of our own.
According to a study conducted in 2006 by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, transit buses with GM-Allison's hybrid technology deliver up to 75 percent better fuel economy than traditional transit buses, and reduce emissions of nitrogen oxides (NOx) up to 39 percent, particulate matter (PM) up to 97 percent, carbon monoxide up to 60 percent and hydrocarbons up to 75 percent. The report was published in December 2006, and can be viewed at http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/fleettest/pdfs/40585.pdf.
With gas @$4++++, the eco crowd was paying big bucks to "feel good", shelling out 3-6 grand over MSRP just to drive the second ugliest car ever made..Now with petrol under $2.00, your local Toy dealer will kiss your backside and throw in the store to get them off the lot. Some owners are probably upside down 10 grand, and probably not too happy, wishing they had bought the 30mpg car with some comfort and lots of protection from SUV collisions..The Kool-Aid crowd no doubt stepped up to plate and shelled out hard earned bucks to drive an Asian rickshaw..
Awful cold here in Fla, maybe we should start up our big internal combustion engines and heat up the air...
Don't worry about all the Global weather worries, for Mother Nature trumps Politics every time..
You crave a retro-car, gas loving critter, great time to buy. Looking for a 2005 LS V-8, 2005 T-Bird or 2007 Dodge Hemi wagon, under 10k miles..May unload the 2006 GPGT for I am running out garage space at 3..
I was impressed after reading several articles on the Chevy COBALT SS with the 260 hp 4-banger, it would probably cream my Bullitt..Maybe a 4dr w/sunroof for around 19k...
Hope everyone is enjoying the Big3 bailout hearing before Congress, lots of hot air from our esteemed Congressional experts, after everyone gets through belittling Detroit and scoring points with their constituents with their screaming babble over business plans which our $160,000yr folks really don't understand, they will dole out the cash, pat themselves on the back and hit the UAW up for more contributions..
Folks, it's a sad day for American industry when our life takes a big hit and the Motorcity has to agree to build crap that nobody wants except the Kool-Aid crowd..
"...someone in India doing legal work (I don't care how sublime it is) somehow is just plain WRONG. I mean, if they miss something YOU are still liable, as you would sign off on their work..."
I must be missing your point...if someone in India is doing legal work for a client, I am not going near it with a ten foot pole...I don't care what THEY miss, as I am not liable for any of it...that is the other side of outsourcing---caveat emptor...
How much did I miss your point???
Remember, I do bankruptcy and personal injury...bankruptcy is a one-to-one type of situation, often highly emotional for the client...I do not see that being done in India, and besides, if you have ever dealt with Indians or Pakistanis (try 7-Eleven) there is a culture barrier where they cannot come across as sympathetic...plus, their cultures still see women as low class chattel, and their condescending attitude to women is, frankly, repulsive to me...
My understanding is that it's not the client interaction or even pulling simple boilerplate together. It's trying to find out how the court would handle a certain situation and having the Indian lawyer research past cases and write up a memo. It's up to the lawyer in the states to interpret the memo, review the work and apply the research to the case in the office. And you get the memo for lots cheaper than having an associate do it.
The HP story rings true too - there's two HP engineers on my block. One deals with counterparts in India and Japan and the 12 hour time difference is a hassle. But a request gets emailed out and the next morning, there's some code in the inbox waiting to be reviewed. If it passes muster, it may go into the firmware of the printer under development.
GM could have a design group sending off problems to China or India - like, how do we make the Sierra 1500's drive train fit into a compact SUV and get a magic seat to fit. Then, if gas remained cheap, parts could be manufactured offshore for final assembly somewhere. Freight and currency issues will probably limit that. But all the paper stuff like dealer warranty claims could be processed offshore. Not to mention lots of engineering. There must be CAD stuff going on now involving engineers on different continents.
What they don't tell you is they cost about $300,000 more than a conventional bus. Most cities that have bought them are finding they Never pay back the higher cost. They would be better off with a CNG bus.
What they don't tell you is they cost about $300,000 more than a conventional bus. Most cities that have bought them are finding they Never pay back the higher cost.
Mass-transit systems across the USA are accelerating orders for diesel-electric hybrid buses, despite an extra cost of more than $100,000 per bus. Four U.S. cities recently ordered more than 1,700 hybrid buses, General Motors, one of two major manufacturers of hybrid bus systems, plans to announce today. The orders include 950 for Washington, D.C., 480 for Philadelphia and 300 for Minneapolis and St. Paul.
Last month, New York City's Metropolitan Transportation Authority — which began experimenting with the buses in 1998 — ordered 850 with systems from GM competitor BAE Systems, MTA spokesman Charles Seaton said.
Hybrids are becoming the buses of choice for public transit systems trying to improve efficiency and reduce environmental damage, despite the fact that better fuel mileage won't necessarily recoup the extra costs, according to the American Public Transportation Association (APTA).
"Hybrids would appear to be what's coming into favor," APTA President William Millar said.
This was the analysis when gas was at $3. So perhaps at $5 it may break even or better? (not sure what diesel cost was but I assume the delta was comparable to gas)
Now with petrol under $2.00, your local Toy dealer will kiss your backside and throw in the store to get them off the lot.
Considering GM sales in November during the Red Tag Event, I'll bet we will see a lot of smooching with the customers in December for those trucks and SUV's hanging around the lots! There are thousands of 'em just rotting!!
Regardless of the vehicles produced by the D3(or 2 or 1), if they are crap going forward, people will never buy them. If they are class leaders in build quality and dependability and are super efficient, they will sell. Hybrid or ICE.
$12-15K premium for the Hybrid Escalade. Like I said, very bad value proposition. The thing will be rusting before break even is reached at $5.00/gallon.
Last month, New York City's Metropolitan Transportation Authority — which began experimenting with the buses in 1998 — ordered 850 with systems from GM competitor BAE Systems, MTA spokesman Charles Seaton said.
That's buying American for you. Isn't BAE a large British company? And Bloomberg is wanting to raise taxes as the city is going broke. This whole country is run by lunatics.
That bus is pretty cool, but won't fit in my driveway...
Ya know there should be a new and improved bus system in America. I recall, all so many years ago, when Greyhound bus had many buses coming and going out of a really neat and clean looking building in our little city. Buses came in through one side of the block and drove on leaving out the front of the other side of the block. Today it is but a small building, not open all night, and is in rather beat up shape.
But gas did hit $5 in California. While it is surely fine to have the cheap gas for say a nice RWD V8 sports car, I would not buy today based on current $2 gas, if you know that you would not feel you could afford up to $5 per gallon gas. Well, that is unless you have some crystal ball telling you all is well going ahead. Love the price we are in, but don't bet on it staying for a long - long time. My guess, as guessing goes, is that the range in California will be as low as $1.75 and as high as $3.50 or better by next year. Within a couple to three years, depression not figured in, gas prices could top the $3.50 and go into $4+ again. Isn't the real value adjusted for inflation for gas between $2.75 and $3.50 per gallon?
Personally, while I would love to have the ol' V8 powered car again, it would more likely be the pleasure machine, while keeping my V6 or even going back to i4 for a travel car. I can see know reason to drive a car, even if a V8, which can not achieve at least say 22-24MPG on the freeway. Once the economy recovers, gas should be around $2.75 to $3.50, with ease. If we slip into a depression, I guess a V8 which gets 14MPG may be OK for a second car, as gas may remain low, or should I say go as low as you indicated into the $1.50 per gal.
But, this is what they have got to do because of the ridiculous cafe standards that car companies are going to be dealing with soon. And talking about the bad value, it is the same thing with the Prius. You can get a Corolla for around 15 or 16k, but the Prius is about 10 grand more. So where is the value there. It would take about 8 or 9 years to make up that difference. I wanted to say also, since gas prices have dropped I have not seen one Prius with new plates on it, but I have seen a lot of new Acadia's, a couple of Tahoe's, I mean cars that people actually want.
I have seen a lot of new Acadia's, a couple of Tahoe's, I mean cars that people actually want.
Bingo!!!
No one but an eco dweeb or high mileage commuter would buy a Prius when gas is cheap. It may be too little, too late for GM. The Acadia seems to be a real family hit and the young people buy the Tahoe, Denali and Escalades and bling them out. When you are living at home for free you can afford an expensive ride.
Comments
Second, in spite of you THINKING they lack skill, if Honda makes so much money on them, and the Civic is put together as well as you guys claim, then maybe the workers DESERVE more than $15/ hr.
Just for comparison, an entry-level job in information technology, doing operations, PC, and network troubleshooting and such, makes $15 per hour in my area of the Hudson Valley, which is a fairly high-rent area for the suburbs. That job requires an education in information technology. $15 per hour for unskilled labor jobs on an assembly line is quite good as a starting salary, especially when it's not in McMansion-ville.
By the way, the term "skilled" and "unskilled" labor are not judgments on actual skill; they're technical terms indicating the level of training and vetting they have to go through to be in the profession. Most contractors, particularly electrical and plumbing for example, are considered skilled labor. They had to get educated, study, and be certified or licensed in their trade. Unskilled labor is typically when Joe Bloe can step off the street, be shown how to do a particular task, and then do it. It's a lot more complex than that, but that's the general gist of it.
Interesting parallel with what the UAW is afraid of by the way, but the IT business responded by becoming more competitive to keep more of the jobs here. The UAW...I don't have a problem with unions in general, but the UAW seems to just have issues sometimes. That's the really sad part, because American labor really IS the best in the world on a per-dollar basis, except when it comes to UAW workers, it seems.
I figured as much. It just gets my gall to think that someone could spend tens of thousands of dollars on an education, only to be undercut by someone who makes literally a fraction of what you make. Pretty soon we'll need a Phd just to get a job at Mcdonalds.
As for wages, it is the market for workers with the ability to do that particular work which will set the wage, unless you are talking socialism, communism or union scales. I would imagine somewhere between $15 and $25 per hour to make sense for the job at hand - in other words, that is what I would expect to make.
It's up to the car company to determine what pay rate is profitable to pay their employees at. If they screw up that math it's THEIR fault, because union or no, they'd likely pay their employees too much (kinda like they're paying most of their non-union execs too much right now, for example).
Now, mind you, the union isn't helping with the jobs bank and all...they're not innocent. But there's no way they should be carrying 100% or even 51% of the guilt.
Article in paper yesterday that lawyer work is being outsourced to India. Contracts go over there and they have rows of Indian lawyers going through them looking for errors. Guess that is a good thing. May soon not have any lawyers here.
Naww that will not happen. Most of DC is lawyers and they will stop that somehow. Probably say it is not safe to have overseas labor looking at important contracts. May bring our country down it they make a mistake.
Follow the money.
Time to play favorites? The automakers "agendas are diverging as they contemplate futures as drastically different car companies."
Each Player in Big Three to Bring Its Own Plan (NY Times)
The plans?
UAW: Signaling More Concessions
GM: Deeper Cuts, Possible Brand Eliminations
Ford: Focus on Fuel Economy
Chrysler: Looking for a Partner While Squabbling with Daimler
Detroit Three: Making the Sales Pitch of a Lifetime (AutoObserver)
The American/Detroit auto has become 100% political..
Solution: Let the UAW agree to 19.50/hr, full health benefits and no pension..Existing workers can take a buyout of $50,000 max depending on yrs of employment, and hit the bricks..
No gravy train lasts forever, you just take while the pot of gold is there, and go on with life..
Isn't the EPA political, and the auto BS coming out of California all enclosed in Politics???????????????????
The Bullitt runs like a champ, very smooth up to triple digits, perfect wheel balance and zippo driveline vibration..The 5-speed gearbox is smooth, however I would prefer an automatic..In reflection, my 71 SS350 Camaro still has the edge on the Bullitt, it was a great ride, those 90k miles in 18 mos with the Turbo-hydramatic slicing the shifts..Inflation--the SS350 stickered around $3,500 and the Bullitt was around $33,000..
I see where Ford on the 2010 models is using the Bullitt 315 HP and offering a performance pkg consisting of items from the Bullitt parts bin..I choose the Bullitt mainly due to the suspension goodies, lacking from the std GT..
It seems to draw a crowd, so that means it is subject to vandalism and that means it's a day car only..Got to keep the insurance company happy, no political stickers for it might just upset someone for a friendily scratch across the painted surfaces..
No doubt it would be a Kool-Aid drinker..
Mr. Smith, why should McDonald's hire you?
Well, I just got my PhD in Fryology from MIT last month and I'm furthering my studies in burger engineering. I also specialized in shake processing analysis at Cornell...
Good post, fair and balanced. I only put political stickers on my beater PU truck. Too many wackos allowed to run free here in LaLa Land.
You are right that Our Congress is clueless about business, though they are the best money can buy. Every bit of legislation can be traced to a political contribution.
Not so much of a laugh these days, when Detroit is hemorrhaging money faster than Washington. Fact is, if the government (meaning us the taxpayers) is going to buy a stake in these auto companies (my much preferred method of "bailing out" companies...loans suck) then they have a right to a say in how the company is run, same as us if we bought stock directly.
That being said, I agree with your solution on the UAW side...given today's job market and health care costs, that's a fairly sweet deal for both sides. You should seriously write your Congress-critters and let them know that that should be a condition. Matter of fact, I think I'll do that myself.
Lake Freeman was created in 1925 after the completion of the Oakdale Dam on the south end as we had Norway Dam on the north end. Approx 12 miles between dams was the length of Freeman. Great boating lake and outstanding fishing combined with "no Public Access" made it a private and residential lake.
My family become involved in the early 1920's with the purchase of the farm and frontage on the Tippecanoe River at that time. They ran a small fishing camp as a hobby and had a tenant farmer for the other side. When Freeman was created they sold approx 80 acres to the Northern Public Service. On Lake Freeman we had 5/8 of a mile of lake frontage. The fishing camp was disbanded during the early 40's when my older brothers went off to WWII. After the war the cottages were moved and we expanded our summer home, farming switched to sharecroppers. In 1952 our summer home was wrecked and a permanent dwelling was built. I left Monticello in 1957 to pursue other interests and my father sold the entire lake frontage and farm to a local car dealer. He kept 7 acres of lake frontage, high ground, which my stepmother had a house built on in 1971. We sold that off in 1988 and the last time I was near Monticello was 1973. I should have bought the house, but I was living in Detroit and couldn't figure out a way to survive in that great town of Monticello.
The Contour V-6 was a hot little car with the SVT adding to the excitement of ownership. The Contour really never took off like Ford had planned, some what small sized interior I guess..I remember trying to obtain some of the suspension components on the carline from a Canadian machining source..
Enough history, sorry for the personal side..
The Volt will not sell in any big numbers, trouble waiting..The ethanol producers are taking a blood bath during these low pump prices---too bad
I've been saying for years the domestics need to extend their warranties and stand behind their product equal to the Koreans with 10 year warranties and long bumper to bumper warranties, but no, they won't do it.
Why? I suspect because deep down they know their products are still crap.
Also, GM did extend their powertrain warranties (although not equal to the Koreans), and that is probably coming back to bite them really hard as it's been around for a few years now (when did it start) and may be a HUGE and main reason they are running in the red financially now. I didn't see how the Big 3 could extend their warranties and still make money, unless of course, they started selling Honda's and Toyotas.
I'm sure GM's warranty work expenditures accounting and logs are as cooked as Enron's books were.
I hope you youngsters keep on working hard and paying taxes to cover the bailouts along with my Medicare and SS checks..My lifestyle is depending on you all to cover the gas bills, insurance, villa maintenance fees, groceries, and property taxes. I will cover the balance of my living costs with the stock market games..
I had to fill-up the hungry GPGT with ethanol premium and lost 2 mpgs right now, what a farce the corny gas is!!!!
In reviewing the president-elect personnel picks and the choice of many exClintonites, I was truly disappointed to see that Sandy Berger was not selected for any document swapping/destroying cabinet position..The weasel would be a perfect choice..
See where Toy sales were down 34% last month, another bailout in the asking???
Another solution to the Big3 problem---$1500 tariff on every foreign transplant produced and sold in American..payable to our Treasury Dept...to pay for the bailout of the Big3..
Happy to hear Ford is healthy and will be able to replace any busted parts on the Bullitt...
Just maybe the American public will get the message, and boycott the Asian products..That's just nasty, isn't it!!!????
"If GM has done its accruals correctly, provisions should have been made to finance those costs at the time of sale."
Big if?
Note the chart there - GM's claims rate is up a percentage in the last year.
General Motors' Warranties (Warranty Week)
!00,000 mile warranties probably became a must for GM, however they aren't a big selling point to me..The most I ever had was on the Caddies, and had one engine replaced long after the warranty of 50k had gone south..free of charge..4.9 liter., piston slap when starting cold..no big deal..
The day I buy a Korean car is the day I rennounce my citizenship!!!!! Sorry, at 75, I not going to throw the Big3 under the bus.....
Kind of funny the banks and the big boys were bailed out quick with biggggg billions
and the auto companies are grilled and sliced up for effect, a drama setting, total political spin...Stevey, it's all political!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At 65 it looks to me like GM keeps crawling in front of the train. They haven't done anything right for nearly 40 years. They are no more American than some Korean cars. Their Aveo is made in Korea. Now if you are interested in bailing out Americans. How about the building contractors. They represent a LOT MORE American workers than the Big 3. They want some of this easy money also. Nothing more American than your home built by Americans in America.
I just read today that several states including CA have asked for over $100 billion to keep afloat. Heck I could use $25 for when the pizza guy gets here.
What does it mean? Just that age doesn't really prove anything.
My dad snuck by and didn't get one until he was maybe 86. Of course he'd been leasing DeVilles for over a decade at that point.
Beautiful up there though I can't imagine dealing with taht weather at 75...
I've been up to the UP a few times. Always in the summer. I remember seeing pictures up by the Mackinac bridge showing the area under multiple feet of snow. Just amazing.
i remember once looking on realtor.com at houses in Sault Ste Marie. I could live in a mansion there for what my house in NJ is worth. Of course I'd spend all my money heating it...
Unless it was built by illegal ali...*ahem* I mean, temporary undocumented migrant day laborers. :shades:
It's hard to say what's American these days...the Ford built in Mexico, or the Subaru built in Indiana.
Yeah, it had to happen...let's face it...if someone over there understands English, and it is a boilerplate contract, why not have someone check it for errors???...and even matters more complex...
While I rail at the union (UAW) for their stupid demands, I also realize that my field is also subject to price competition, and we don't like it either...but we are at least smart enough to acknowledge it exists and we have to compete to win...
I used to do real estate closings...we received $600 per closing, not great for the work involved, but it was OK...then someone down the street offered to do them for $300...I knew then that it was time to get out and let the cheapest guy win...I could not do it for $300 for the time involved...competition sucks, but it IS reality...
steve: yeah, you busted my chops, but when did I lower the markup to ONLY 200%???.....
I'm sorry Bob, but I'll have to partially disagree with you. I'ts one thing to have an AMERICAN LAWYER doing RE closings for less than you (or the $150 divorces), but someone in India doing legal work (I don't care how sublime it is) somehow is just plain WRONG. I mean, if they miss something YOU are still liable, as you would sign off on their work (not to say an American can't mess up).
I get the whole "global economy" thing, but I just have a problem w/ us being the world's caretaker when they won't take care of their own, and we haven't taken care of our own.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/09/las-vegas-to-the-get-the-1000th-gm-allis- on-hybrid-bus-this-month/
According to a study conducted in 2006 by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, transit buses with GM-Allison's hybrid technology deliver up to 75 percent better fuel economy than traditional transit buses, and reduce emissions of nitrogen oxides (NOx) up to 39 percent, particulate matter (PM) up to 97 percent, carbon monoxide up to 60 percent and hydrocarbons up to 75 percent. The report was published in December 2006, and can be viewed at http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/fleettest/pdfs/40585.pdf.
Awful cold here in Fla, maybe we should start up our big internal combustion engines and heat up the air...
Don't worry about all the Global weather worries, for Mother Nature trumps Politics every time..
You crave a retro-car, gas loving critter, great time to buy. Looking for a 2005 LS V-8, 2005 T-Bird or 2007 Dodge Hemi wagon, under 10k miles..May unload the 2006 GPGT for I am running out garage space at 3..
I was impressed after reading several articles on the Chevy COBALT SS with the 260 hp 4-banger, it would probably cream my Bullitt..Maybe a 4dr w/sunroof for around 19k...
Hope everyone is enjoying the Big3 bailout hearing before Congress, lots of hot air from our esteemed Congressional experts, after everyone gets through belittling Detroit and scoring points with their constituents with their screaming babble over business plans which our $160,000yr folks really don't understand, they will dole out the cash, pat themselves on the back and hit the UAW up for more contributions..
Folks, it's a sad day for American industry when our life takes a big hit and the Motorcity has to agree to build crap that nobody wants except the Kool-Aid crowd..
I must be missing your point...if someone in India is doing legal work for a client, I am not going near it with a ten foot pole...I don't care what THEY miss, as I am not liable for any of it...that is the other side of outsourcing---caveat emptor...
How much did I miss your point???
Remember, I do bankruptcy and personal injury...bankruptcy is a one-to-one type of situation, often highly emotional for the client...I do not see that being done in India, and besides, if you have ever dealt with Indians or Pakistanis (try 7-Eleven) there is a culture barrier where they cannot come across as sympathetic...plus, their cultures still see women as low class chattel, and their condescending attitude to women is, frankly, repulsive to me...
The HP story rings true too - there's two HP engineers on my block. One deals with counterparts in India and Japan and the 12 hour time difference is a hassle. But a request gets emailed out and the next morning, there's some code in the inbox waiting to be reviewed. If it passes muster, it may go into the firmware of the printer under development.
GM could have a design group sending off problems to China or India - like, how do we make the Sierra 1500's drive train fit into a compact SUV and get a magic seat to fit. Then, if gas remained cheap, parts could be manufactured offshore for final assembly somewhere. Freight and currency issues will probably limit that. But all the paper stuff like dealer warranty claims could be processed offshore. Not to mention lots of engineering. There must be CAD stuff going on now involving engineers on different continents.
What they don't tell you is they cost about $300,000 more than a conventional bus. Most cities that have bought them are finding they Never pay back the higher cost. They would be better off with a CNG bus.
Little closer to $100,000.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-01-21-masstransithybrids_N.htm
Mass-transit systems across the USA are accelerating orders for diesel-electric hybrid buses, despite an extra cost of more than $100,000 per bus.
Four U.S. cities recently ordered more than 1,700 hybrid buses, General Motors, one of two major manufacturers of hybrid bus systems, plans to announce today. The orders include 950 for Washington, D.C., 480 for Philadelphia and 300 for Minneapolis and St. Paul.
Last month, New York City's Metropolitan Transportation Authority — which began experimenting with the buses in 1998 — ordered 850 with systems from GM competitor BAE Systems, MTA spokesman Charles Seaton said.
Hybrids are becoming the buses of choice for public transit systems trying to improve efficiency and reduce environmental damage, despite the fact that better fuel mileage won't necessarily recoup the extra costs, according to the American Public Transportation Association (APTA).
"Hybrids would appear to be what's coming into favor," APTA President William Millar said.
This was the analysis when gas was at $3. So perhaps at $5 it may break even or better? (not sure what diesel cost was but I assume the delta was comparable to gas)
:shades:
Hey thats a good question. When do we think gas will go below $1? Many here said it would be up to $5 by now.
Considering GM sales in November during the Red Tag Event, I'll bet we will see a lot of smooching with the customers in December for those trucks and SUV's hanging around the lots! There are thousands of 'em just rotting!!
Regardless of the vehicles produced by the D3(or 2 or 1), if they are crap going forward, people will never buy them. If they are class leaders in build quality and dependability and are super efficient, they will sell. Hybrid or ICE.
Regards,
OW
Nice attempt but it's still an overblown Tahoe.
Regards,
OW
That's buying American for you. Isn't BAE a large British company? And Bloomberg is wanting to raise taxes as the city is going broke. This whole country is run by lunatics.
Ya know there should be a new and improved bus system in America. I recall, all so many years ago, when Greyhound bus had many buses coming and going out of a really neat and clean looking building in our little city. Buses came in through one side of the block and drove on leaving out the front of the other side of the block. Today it is but a small building, not open all night, and is in rather beat up shape.
Personally, while I would love to have the ol' V8 powered car again, it would more likely be the pleasure machine, while keeping my V6 or even going back to i4 for a travel car. I can see know reason to drive a car, even if a V8, which can not achieve at least say 22-24MPG on the freeway. Once the economy recovers, gas should be around $2.75 to $3.50, with ease. If we slip into a depression, I guess a V8 which gets 14MPG may be OK for a second car, as gas may remain low, or should I say go as low as you indicated into the $1.50 per gal.
Bingo!!!
No one but an eco dweeb or high mileage commuter would buy a Prius when gas is cheap. It may be too little, too late for GM. The Acadia seems to be a real family hit and the young people buy the Tahoe, Denali and Escalades and bling them out. When you are living at home for free you can afford an expensive ride.