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Detroit is in deep dung..and we may be a nation driving foriegn cars only in the future.
All cars produced by non-Big3 are foreign..I get somewhat tired of reading about the 85% domestic content on the Toys or Hons..Their supplier base is foreign owned, [non-permissible content removed], Korean or some other cheap labor outfit with an oriental paper trail.
Get the $25 Billion bridge loan from Japan.
Honda will start building propane-powered cars in the Hoosier State..Probably will be a non-smoking car and you can get a refill at your local Farm Bureau oulet..Boone Pickens has got to be counting his money..and can't believe how it is really growing..
Drill, Drill, love the oil, however with our next President realizing that the Eco-whacks all voted for him will tell us that our love affair with the cars of yore is over and we can look forward to life of government mandates like Russia, China, Cuba, and Venezuela..
Interesting Mag issue dtd 11/24/08-Forbes, Energy+Genius, a special edition covering energy and all the pluses and downside to the master schemes..Our current direction is truly a hodgepodge of misdirection using our tax-money to enrich any Bozo with a half-baked idea to lessen our hunger for oil.
Our silly Democrats will have to go for drilling once they pull their heads out of the Vacuum..
Regards:
OldCEM
Have you kept track of your Aura's fuel economy? I know a lot of people say just get the 3.6, but I like the way the 3.5 splits the difference between the 4-cyl and the 3.6. It's not as economical as the 4-cyl, and not as powerful as the 3.6, but strikes a good middle ground, especially for the price. Sure, an Accord or Camry V-6 gives you the power AND the economy, but you pay a lot more for one, as well.
Before they went to the new rating system, I think the 3.5 Aura was EPA-rated at 20/30. My aging 2000 Intrepid was rated at 20/29, so it looks like a step ahead to me...slightly better economy with a more powerful, torquier engine.
Regards:
OldCEM
You like Hondas, go visit the folks driving the little beer cans..
We are talking about American cars on this forum..The products that made this country, great and prosperous, started in Detroit, not Toyko.
You can't even buy a Happy Meal with the value from the sale of 1 share of stock of GM!!! Horrible!!
GM represents everything that needs to be changed in American Auto manufacturing BUSINESS. Hide your head in the sand all you want but in a global economy, GM, Ford and Chrysler FAILED. Period, the END!
Hopefully, there will be enough to salvage from the ashes to rebuild this once great U.S. industry. Hopefully, Toyota and Honda will help.
Regards,
OW
By contrast my Ford was made in Canada and my Chrysler in Mexico.
-Loren
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My Expedition has the brake release to close to the hood release. I always use the emergency/parking brake on the boat ramp, and I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally yanked the hood release when when trying to release the park brake.
That said, I wouldn't base my purchase on where the parking brake or gear shift is located.
Once asked a MB dealer why big Mercs were fitted with foot-operated parking brakes, (when they were). "Well, they're designed for the USA market. Doughnut in one hand, coffee cup in the other; how else are they going to put the parking brake on ?" True story.
Remember being a passenger in a big Citroen, (maybe a CX or similar), manual transmission, so 3-pedals - plus a foot-operated parking brake. Hmmm.....4 pedals and just 2 feet. Great fun on hill starts. I'll stick to handbrakes, thank you very much.
While I agree with your point, I've owned many manual transmission vehicles and have never needed/used a parking brake to help me on a hill. I prefer to scare the hell out of the person behind me that pulled up to close:)
I think the foot brake might be best in a situation where you need to do one panic stop. A situation where the prime goal is to simply bring the car to a complete stop as quickly as possible.
But in other situations where you have to regularly apply and release the brake, I think a handbrake would be easier. Easier to pull the brake with your hand and apply just the pressure you need, and then either press the button or twist the handle to release. With a foot brake, once the thing's activated, you have to use your hand to pull the release, a much clunkier operation than using a handbrake.
I drove my grandmother's '85 LeSabre about 9 miles with no brakes once, and stopping was a bit of a pain. I tried to use the emergency brake as little as possible, because it was foot operated. Instead I'd just try to time the lights, plan my stops as far ahead as possible, keep plenty of distance from the cars in front of me, downshif frequently, etc. It wasn't too hard to do, but still a bit of a pain with the foot brake.
A few years before that, I did the same thing with a '67 Chrysler Newport with no brakes. However, it had a hand brake, which made stopping a lot more convenient...much easier to apply just the pressure I needed, and then just twist to release.
I don't much care where the parking brake is as long as they're not hiding it someplace. The current fleet has three between the seats and one on the floor. once owned a car that had a long pull handle over on the left under the dash.
Yeah, that's where Mopar put their handbrakes. My Darts and the DeSoto were the same way, only the DeSoto's is a big chrome thing just waiting to impale your knee if you slide up into it for any reason...which might just be why they don't put handbrakes under the dash anymore!
I don't have a problem with the handbrake being on the transmission hump. After all, chances are the car has a console and floor shifter there, anyway. Now with a bench seat car, I imagine a foot brake would be mandatory, but I don't see a problem with a handbrake on a car with bucket seats and a console.
Handbrakes are much easier to use when you are doing a 180 power slide into a snow covered parking space.
We had this discussion months ago over in The Future Of The Manual Transmission.
Future headline? (Swap "Yugo" for "Chevy", "Ford" or "Dodge")
R.I.P. The last Yugo rolls off the assembly line
feathering the gas and clutch is good fun only for about 5 minutes, plus your clutch doesn't like you doing it.
I've always been able to move my feet fast enough from the brake to the gas and go. I don't live in a hilly area, but I have used a manual trans to pull boats out of a lake on a ramp with over a 25+ degree slope. If you move your feet fast enough and know what you're doing, the vehicle won't roll back at all. Semi drivers go through the same thing, they don't have a parking brake that can be used to hold a hill, then immediately release.
When I had my Jetta TDI, that little diesel had so much torque at idle I could put the front tire against a curb, slowly let the clutch out and it would climb the curb w/o having to touch the gas pedal. In my neighborhood (wouldn't do this in traffic of course), I could start in first and work my way through every gear ending up in 5th w/o ever touching the gas pedal. Between the diesel torque and quick idle speed control it was easy to do.
By the way my parking brake pedal doesn't have a release lever. I have to step on it again to release it. I'd rather have the foot pedal which releases when shifting out of park automatically.
And if you need to use the parking brake handle to engage the clutch while on a hill, I'd suggest you practice more as you're not using the parking brake as designed.
My DeSoto's parking brake clamps down either on the driveshaft or at the end of the transmission; I can't remember which. But it is in no way connected to the rear brakes of the car.
I think Mopar used that setup through 1964 on the bigger cars, although the compact Valiant/Lancer/Dart might have started life with a conventional setup that connected the rear brakes.
My parking brake uses the rear brakes, drum or disc, to effect their stopping effort.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Regards:
OldCEM
OK. I'll bite. What kind of car you got?
Big day is tomorrow, the Bullitt arrives from the Motorcity, just got a call from the trucker and all is well, 8:30am in front of my villa..The noisy piece of nostalgia is a cure for the economic gloom and doom..Lots of carbon will be put into the atmosphere by this neat little bomb..We could use a little "Global Warming" in Fla
for the last couple weeks have been chilly..I won't carry that subject any further for it could upset the political correctness of this Edmunds forum.
Honda is running a "sweat shop" in Greensburg, Indiana, paying only $14.85/hr in their new assembly plant..churring out little metal cans called "Civics"..However the wage will elevate to almost $18.00/hr in 2009..Call the UAW folks and see if those Hoosiers would go for $36.00/hr+awesome benefits..Do people really work for a foreign company for such low wages????That's evil!!!
Indiana is a mecca for the foreigners, a Subaru plant in Lafayette, Ind, home of Purdue Univ where I spent a year and finsihed the trip at Univ of Arizona..one Honda Plt, and a Toy Plant..
I was born in Indiana, Naptown, Marion county and spent all summers in Monticello. Indiana, White county..family farm and lake home..What a blast!!!
Filled up the Camry yesterday, 313 miles averaged 22.85mpgs..Sick mileage for an anemic 4-banger of 158hp. Last week I filled the 260hp S/C Pontiac averaging 21.86mpgs for 320 miles.. Now which auto is the fun car???? It ain't the Toy, the Motorcity auto is the winner..
I did visit the Honda forum on Edmunds when I had the hots for a SiCivic and owners were complaining that clutchs and gearboxs will failing around 10k and the Honda dealers wouldn't step up to the plate on the warranty issue, claiming hotrodding and aggressive driving wasn,t covered by Tokyo standards..I could see where another lawyer would be on my payroll again..Bye Honda..
Go Ford and grab a Bullitt, however they just may disappear soon, but if they are still around and my Bullitt upchucks something, it will be fixed under warranty..After all, old Henry Ford expects owners of his V-8s to keep the pedal to the firewall, it's part of the American landscape..No [non-permissible content removed]-footing around in the Bullitt..I don't go easy on the Pontiac, like to see the supercharger work a bit, and if it goes South, GM will replace, if they are still around..
Lighten up folks!!!!! and buy cars you can abuse, for it's tough to preserve a 4-banger sitting in a tin can and trying to milk it for 200k miles..Buy the Big3 iron and get complaining rights if it fails.
I destroyed a 48 Chevy motor trying to get 70mph in 2nd gear, when 65 was tops..Old man had a new engine installed and I got the 50 Ford Crestliner V-8 w/od and we could get 90 in second gear, solved a big problem for my teenage yr..The problem with the straight 6 48 Chev was lack of full-pressure lubrication and the scoops on the crankshaft didn't supply even oil at high RPMs..The gangsters always used Fords in the old days..
Getting low on money, move to the robust economy of Indiana and enjoy working for a [non-permissible content removed] company. Making 30 grand a yr, you may have to eat raw fish to survive, but it's our new energy, green life style..
No politics today, just reality...Life in the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's was great..However 2008 and beyond is iffy..
Old-timer, enjoy the Saturn for it will serve you well..
Are there any Collectible Asian built cars going across the auction block at Barrett-Jackson???? My neighbor still is trying to sell me his 1990 Twin-Turbo 370hp 300 ZX something, my offer is 4k, he still has his 2002 SVT Focus, on it's third of tires w/only 36k miles..all [non-permissible content removed] directional tires which have a life span of zip...
I bought a new SVT Contour in '98 and it would eat through Goodyear Eagle GSCs every 20k with 90% hwy driving. You want sticky tires, you get zero tread life.
BTW, I grew up in Indiana too. Spent many days on Lake Shaffer and Freeman. My wife and I actually rented a house on Lake Freeman when we were newly weds and we both graduated from Purdue. Small world
I think American's willing to work for a DECENT $14.85/hour are commendable and I'm sure that is far preferred to NOT WORKING AT ALL or becomming equivalent to a begger on the street asking the GOV't to pay their way!!!!!! I know I'd prefer to work for $14.85 an hour before you'd catch me asking for a handout/bailout/donation/charity/welfare payment. I guess the Big 3 like unemployment as all their workers seemed determined to send the companies in that direction.
I hope those Lear Jet Leases were worth the millions spent on them. I'm sure the Average Joe appreciates their retirement fizzling into half while the Big 3 CEO's begging in DC spend more than half that retirement account in one day.
$30,000 a year to start is pretty damn good for someone just walking in off the street with no previous experience. Hell, those impoverished Indianans could buy a new Civic on that kind of moolah.
I imagine that housing is also much more affordable in that area than in many parts of the country. I looked on Realtor.com, and it looks like for maybe $100K, you could get a halfway decent house out there. Not a starter castle or anything like that, but not a shotgun shack, either.
I don't know anything about the economic standing of that area, but heck, $14.85 an hour could be a Godsend, if it's an otherwise impoverished area.
We moved from Wichita, Ks a year and a 1 1/2 ago and it was pretty much the same way. Most of the aircraft blue collar jobs where in the $12-$16/hr range. Housing was inexpensive. We sold our 3 year old ranch with 3,000 finished sq/ft 5 bedrooms, safe/tornado room, custom landscaping, sprinkler system, 3 car garage, in a subdivision with a 18 hole golf course for just under $200k. You could get a new house in a new development for under $130k.
Nothing like what I was looking at on the north side of Chicago, where we almost to. $350k got you a 30 year old tri-level that still had 70's paneling. That's insane. I'm sure prices have probably dropped a bit since then though.
Regards:
OldCEM
Of course, if you want carbon emissions, you need an old-school diesel V8 with 20 HP and 500 foot-pounds of torque that runs out of breath at 1000 feet. :shades:
Oh, and working in that Civic plant probably beats the stuffing out of working for Wal-Mart. But if you want complaining rights, you want Korean iron, since they'll stand by their product for 10 years, something the domestics don't want to do yet. Wish they would, good P/R decision that should boost immediate sales and not cost much to implement initially; the costs are all down the road, but by then they're out of the woods or out of business anyway. :shades:
Here in Europe, Ford produce a good line of cars; Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo. All of which are really very good cars all, of course, with a suitable variety of economic engines. The Mondeo is arguably a better car than the BMW 3-series, (forget M3 and its ilk, Ford don't play there any more). It also offers more bangs per buck across the range. Having said that, the 3-series outsells it due mainly to "badge snobbery" and the desire for a more exclusive marque. (Although, as there are fewer Mondeo's than 3's the reverse would seem to be the case). :confuse:
GM, in the form of Vauxhall/Opel have the Corsa, Astra and new Insignia. Again, all now good cars with a suitably diverse range of engine options; incl the all-important small diesels, (as with Ford).
Chrysler have...................er, the 300C and the Grand Cherokee plus some other even more mundane stuff that just cannot compete. On second thoughts, Chrysler group could disappear from Europe and not be missed. :sick:
So, can we please keep the Euro Fords and GM's all of which, I'm pretty sure, would sell well in the "new" USA market - if the folks in charge could just get on with marketing them as-is rather than trying to "Americanise" them.
Just my two-pennyworth, of course.
You have poked the problem Right in the eye. We having dueling regulators in this country that are not satisfied till they have completely bastardized every vehicle made. For example: the Smart as sold in the EU and Canada gets 70+ MPG. About what you would expect from such a small vehicle. By they time it hit our showrooms it was lucky to get 35 MPG. I am amazed that VW was finally able to get their fine diesel cars passed all the eco wienies that control our government. We do not have a single American nameplate sold in the USA that is even close to the VW TDI and its 50 MPG.
It would be a shame to bring down a company that is building good cars outside our restrictive borders. So maybe GM and Ford can continue in the rest of the World. Maybe someday we will be freed from the tyranny that prevents good high mileage cars & PU trucks from being built and sold here.
The fact that you still refer to Civics as "little metal cans" and consider a starting wage of $14.58 per hour for unskilled labor to be worthy of a "sweat shop" could serve as Exhibit A of the Detroit mentality, and why GM and Chrysler were in Washington, D.C., begging for a handout to prevent bankruptcy.
I'm fine with requiring Mullaly and Waggoner selling their jets, as long as our public servants (Reid & Pelosi) have to sell theirs, which are paid for by the taxpayers directly..... Otherwise, that is none of Congress' business. What a bunch of hypocrites!