O.K. let's put aside the struggles that Ford and GM are having at the moment. Let's say that both these companies are thriving, rolling in dough, 75% market share in the U.S. 1 in 2 cars sold is either a GM or Ford product. They are riding high on success unthreatened by import competition.
Does anyone think things would be that different? Think these two would halt all outside production and just keep it here in the states? Think that more investment would be made here in the states to build new plants? Think these current plant closures wouldn't be inevitable at some point in time?
I'd vote with my life earnings on a big fat HELL NO.
If our country's union costs are so expensive, why would GM and Ford want to increase the workforce here in the states, when you can go elsewhere and get the job done for less? Does anyone think that out of the "goodness of their sweet little hearts" these two would not continue their abandonment of this country to save a few more bucks, thus lining the pockets of the bigwigs up in Detroit?
Doubt it.
I don't think we as consumers are going to do a DAMN thing to stop this, whether they are thriving or not. Meanwhile a new Toyota Tundra plant is open in the middle of Texas.
Gloom and Doom Scenario, from the good life kicking out Tahoes and Silveradoes, straight to working on the streets holding up a "Buy at KMART 50% off"......
Does anyone think things would be that different? Think these two would halt all outside production and just keep it here in the states?
Of course, you're correct. The desire to outsource comes from a desire to improve margins with lower labor costs. The "American" car companies will fire Americans at the drop of a hat if it can get cheaper bodies somewhere else.
The game has changed because capital markets have globalized, improved technology makes it easier to manage distant operations effectively, and developing countries have been getting rid of restrictive trade rules so that it is easy for US companies to set up shop and take advantage of their lower costs.
Maybe the average man in the street just isn't business-savvy, and doesn't understand that the rules changed a long time ago and that the clock isn't turning back.
It's the same confusing world that has resulted in Chrysler becoming German, Nissan becoming French, both Swedish carmakers being American, every British car being either German or American-owned, some "American" Fords being Mexican and GM having its best prospects in China. I guess that some people are more confused than others.
What is "full data" supposed to mean? You know the percentage of content and whose labor went into building it.
If this is how you perform at work, your employer must be dying to outsource your job. You are trying to delegate the defense of your belief system to me, when I don't even agree with you!
Like I said, bring us the numbers as to what cars are American made and their content for GM, Ford, and Chrysler and we can start rocking and rolling, otherwise go find someone else to play your little shell game.......... :surprise:
The data for US made should include Mexican content also. What needs to be followed up on is the true source of US parts. Are the suppliers actually independent North American companies or are they actually foreign companies doing business here just as HoToy are doing.
The shell game for monies appears to exceed what ordinary people can scrutinize.
...and idles 14 plants. What to do with all these unemployed laborers? Are there not prisons? Are there not workhouses? Welcome to 21st Century Dickensian America!
The data for US made should include Mexican content also.
Why? Does a line worker in Atlanta or Detroit benefit when a guy in Hermosillo gets his job?
Rather than pretend that knowing content origins are impossible, recognize that this information has been available for over a decade. The American Automobile Labeling Act provides what you need, if you'd just go to the trouble of reading it.
(And if you did, you'd know that a Toyota Avalon has higher US content than does a Chrysler PT Cruiser, and that a Honda Accord has higher US content than does a Ford Fusion.)
Good, now your getting it, now bring in the stats for each car, the financials, and the origin of labor and we can break down the choices as to what makes a "American Car".......
We may get finished before Hillary starts her run for Presidency and shuts off these Chinese imports along with the others Bill let in...........
reddogs - why should we get that info? The window stickers support our point of view that an Accord is mostly American and a Fusion is Mexican. So there is my proof. You are the one contending it ... so where is your proof?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I thought that this was a car forum, so I don't see what Hillary Clinton has to do with it.
And if it matters, the trade deficit increased dramatically during the Reagan and both Bush administrations, while NAFTA was strongly supported by both a US president and a Republican Congress, so I don't see either the Dems or the GOP having many differences in respect to this topic.
A Ford Fusion has 30% US/Canadian content, and is built in Mexico. A Honda Accord has 70% US/Canadian content, and is built in Ohio. Comments on that? Or just more excuses to avoid answering?
As a Canadian, I find your statement a bit disturbing. In case you don't know, Canada is a country and not a state of the U.S. So, anyone of you talking about American contents, be sure not to include Canadian contents. Canada is as American as Mexico.
It's not that I am a nationalist and want a big Canadian empire. Just funny how Americans regard Canadian auto content as "domestic" and treat Canadian lumber and beef as "foreign". Be consistant, my friends.
that Canadian content gets considered "domestic"? NAFTA or some other trade treaty? FWIW, my '82 Cutlass Supreme was built in Canada, and I used to joke about it being a "foreign" car!
It also ended up being one of the worst cars I owned, so I guess you could twist that around to saying foreign cars suck! :P
(disclaimer...it was 11 years old and had 61,000 miles on it when I bought it, so I don't really hold GM, or the Canadians responsible for its problems)
As a Canadian, I find your statement a bit disturbing. In case you don't know, Canada is a country and not a state of the U.S.
Put down the maple leaf, before somebody gets hurt...
The window sticker data, which has been provided on every new car sold in the US since 1993, combines US and Canadian content because of the UAW/CAW affiliation and due to the fact that so many "American" automakers have plants and suppliers in Ontario. They don't make the distinction in the labeling law, so I can't either unless I go another step to drill deeper, i.e. considering the specific plant in which the cars were assembled. (But then even that wouldn't tell us what proportion of "content" came from each country.)
I owned a 92' Honda Accord and drove it into the ground, and she continued to purr until I sold her at 150,000 miles. Then I inherited my wife's 00' Pontiac Grand Am, and at 75,000 miles, things are falling off of the car and it's having serious mechanical issues. Freedom of choice - I'll go with the Japanese maker every time.
The arguments here never seem to get answered but it can be very entertaining to read the posts. Having worked for automotive suppliers for 16 years I have found that it is much better to supply Honda and Toyota than GM, Ford or DCX. Suppliers who make parts for the big 2.5 if you haven't noticed are declaring bankruptcy left and right as well as laying off the work force. Not only the spin-offs like Delphi and Tower but also the likes of Collins and Aikmen and Lear. The so called American car companies do not care if their suppliers make a profit and therefore these companies have down sized and there are many people out of jobs. Then take a look at the suppliers that Toyota and Honda brought across the pond with them like Denso. They actually make a profit and are growing due to the growth of Toyota. The big 2.5 have taken the approach that you have to give them a small percentage (5% ie) back every year for a product that you supply to them. The average life cycle is 5 years. In order to get the work you have to have the lowest cost(not the best quality which is why there are so many recalls). Since you can only start with 5-10% profit margin do the math in the 5th year of production you have to sell the part at -10% profit(that is assuming you started with +10%). Chrysler goes one step further, if you do not lower the price they just reduce the amount they owe the supplier on the next payment. No longer a give back but more like a take away. It is up to the supplier to make it cheaper every year while the cost of labor and materials increases every year. You can see where the suppliers are losing money and closing their doors. On the other hand companies like Honda will allow the profit margin and then help the supplier develop cost savings so the supplier can remain profitable and in business. I listen to a lecture from the vice president of N.A. procurement for Honda say that they have only had one supplier in America they had to get rid of due to quality issues and this is over a 20 year time period. They even had one new supplier develope a convertable top for a vehicle that ended up being cancelled. Honda than gave that supplier other parts to make in order to keep them as a supplier. Anyway the big 2.5 don't care about anything but the bottom line. They keep outsourceing component parts to China which creates more job loss in America. So the question remains. Is it better to buy and American made Honda or a Mexican make Ford? I would say in the long run more jobs are maintained and created from the sale of a Honda automobile. If American labor is not competetive why are the Japanese and Koreans able to use American labor a make a better product and profit? Do give me the whine about healthcare the UAW (You Ain't Working) should have been thrown out in the 80s it is no longer needed, it is a dinasour that served it's time. Lets pay people not to work, no wonder this is such a great country
...we're going to end up paying former autoworkers not to work. Even if they get jobs at Wal-Mart, we'll end up paying to subsidize their meager incomes.
The so called American car companies do not care if their suppliers make a profit and therefore these companies have down sized and there are many people out of jobs. Then take a look at the suppliers that Toyota and Honda brought across the pond with them like Denso. They actually make a profit and are growing due to the growth of Toyota.
It gets better (or worse, depending upon your perspective) than that. The "Japanese" automakers build relationships with their suppliers. Rather than nickel-and-dime them, as do the "American" companies, they develop cooperative relationships, so that they can ensure that the supplier focuses on maintaining and improving product quality, rather than being motivated to focus on cost cutting. They also cooperate to make sure that the manufacuturer can rely upon a just-in-time inventory system.
The result -- the supplier becomes an integral part of the inventory management and quality control process, improving vehicle quality (the car is only as good as the sum of its parts) and reducing costs because the automakers can reduce its holdings of excess inventories, which conserves the automaker's need to tie up cash in investing and holding those excess inventories. When you see that Toyotas generally have better long-term reliability than do their "American" counterparts, that is one key reason why.
We may not think it matters looking for and buying American cars since its just union jobs or blue collar workers but when it starts to affect white collar jobs or other industries we may find our jobs being affected, then who you going to call to come to help save your jobs........
You missed this little detail in your rant about jobs:
From the NYTimes article today:
Ford Eliminating Up to 30,000 Jobs and 14 Factories
quote: "Because of their growth, there has been no net loss in American automotive jobs over the last 10 years, according to James P. Womack, an author and specialist in manufacturing efficiency. Auto industry employment has held steady at about 1.1 million workers, including those at parts companies, he said.
In fact, those foreign companies, which collectively employed about 60,000 workers at the North American plants last year, are expanding their factories. Later this year, Toyota will open a new truck plant in San Antonio, and it is building another factory in Ontario." Unquote
Yes it hurts in Wixom and Hapeville, but the 2000 jobs being lost in GA are moving to Texas. People in TX and AL are in fact happy about what is occuring.
Thats so sweet, everyone is happy, the US workers arent really loosing anything, and all the major parts are coming from Japan and the bulk of the finacials flow overseas. I am sure the Unions will be welcome with open arms at the Honda and Toyota plants.......
Ahhh, the union at Honda Ohio's plant didn't welcome any exunion workers. They weren't even in the running. Same for Georgetown from the talk at the time they were employing.
No one is suffering, with no net loss in American automotive jobs its a not really a problem, right:
"Hazelwood, Mo. four years after cutting a plant-saving deal with Ford Motor, it is about to lose part of the community's lifeblood. Like Wixom, Mich., and Hapeville, Ga., Hazelwood is scheduled to lose a Ford assembly plant.
"To a small town, that can be "kind of like losing your best friend," says Hapeville Mayor Alan Hallman.
Coupled with job cuts at other major employers in the three areas and prospective military base closings, these are trying times for the city officials.
Still, Hazelwood Mayor T.R. Carr is holding out hope the plant can be revived as one of the Ford facilities that is flexible enough to build several different vehicles. "We're continuing the process," he says.
Hallman says Hapeville had been in negotiations on and off with Ford for three years, discussing possible retooling and production of another vehicle. He had a "sneaking suspicion" things weren't going Hapeville's way until he heard about a Detroit newspaper account late Sunday that suggested the plant might not be on the list. It was wrong: The company now says it will close the plant in August.
Thats so sweet, everyone is happy, the US workers arent really loosing anything, and all the major parts are coming from Japan...
This is false. I know so because I was a direct independent supplier to the Detroit automakers for 15-20 years and then indirectly to a couple of transplants for a few years. The major parts, steel aluminum, fabric, plastic, etc come from the US; US Steel, Steel Dynamics, Alcoa. Delphi!!! hello!
..and the bulk of the finacials flow overseas.
and then back into my 401k plan, thank you very much.
I am sure the Unions will be welcome with open arms at the Honda and Toyota plants.......
And if they are not? So? If you are a UAW member I do understand your pain. But you can retrain yourself or use your expertise in a new facility where the UAW is not present. It's pleasant in TX and TN.
"Anyway the big 2.5 don't care about anything but the bottom line. They keep outsourceing component parts to China which creates more job loss in America."
Two comments here - first, it should be that the big 2.5 don't care about anything but this quarter's bottom line; they've had a very short-term focus for quite a while, and it's now biting them where it hurts.
And secondly, you're right about the outsourcing - the big 2.5 have no qualms about buying from OUS suppliers when they can get a better deal, so why should US consumers? What's magic about using the Big 2.5 as a middleman to buy foreign?
You guys would take the last dime off a Katrina Hurrricane victim for a roofing job, rip off the shingles and tar paper to let the rains in, then tell them the price has gone up because of material and you can't finish unless they pay up.........
>you can retrain yourself or use your expertise in a new facility where the UAW is not present.
Not in this area you can't. People with previous automobile-related work experience were not even considered for Honda's Ohio plant; same was said for Georgetown. Sounds good thought when you say it, like that's the way it ought to be.
Like I noted above. The people in TX and in TN and in AL are pleased about what is occuring. This has been happening for 100 years since the textile mills moved from New England to the Southeast. Nothing new here it happens all the time and we adjust.
20 yrs ago the integrated steel mills began having problems being competitive when the mini-mills openned up in LA and KY and AR and SC. It drove the USW members out of Bethlehem and Youngstown and Gary down to nicer locations or they just retrained and continued improving our economy.
You have a very negative view of our capability and resilience. In your's and Lemko's view, you lose your job you become a welfare case. This just isnt true. But if that's your opinion, go with it.
"Hazelwood, Mo. four years after cutting a plant-saving deal with Ford Motor, it is about to lose part of the community's lifeblood. Like Wixom, Mich., and Hapeville, Ga., Hazelwood is scheduled to lose a Ford assembly plant."
It's a shame that the "American" FoMoCo has such deep, loyal ties to the US that it prefers to start shifting production to Mexico. I guess we'll have to allow Toyota to pick up the slack, as of the two companies, TMC is the only one that actually wants to hire more Americans.
Given your attitude, why wouldn't you want your money to go to the company most likely to give you a job? I would think that you'd want to punish Ford for being such bad Americans!
It's just being reallocated within the US to more efficient facilities. If Ford said, which they can't, 'We are closing Hapeville and building a new plant in Arkansas to build minivans more efficiently'. Would that be OK in your book?
Why the heck doesnt Ford do the right thing for the good ol' USofA and sell it's damn Volvo, Jaguar assets so that it can build better vehicles here and keep employing US workers. Think how much money could be invested if they did this.
And GM has to stop importing that AVEO 'trinket' from Korea. What do they think they are WalMart?
Its not just a job or a slight shift, its a whole American industry thats being lost along with the others to overseas..........
I heard somewhere that Toshiba is looking to buy Westinghouse...one by one they are being picked off....they close up the plants and business's....we lose the house cause the mortgage is due.. we have to move out of the dead towns and sections of the country...but then its really nothing, its just a job shift..... :lemon:
And why aren't they building their foreign market cars here, too? Ford and GM are dominant players in Australia and Europe, yet the vast majority of their Aussie and European market products are produced there!
I'd like to blame Hillary Clinton or ACLU for this one. No point in holding anyone in Detroit or Dearborn responsible for whatever it is that they do...
Well Hillary will be President soon, and she'll get it sorted out and rescind all of Bill's mistakes and put a chokehold on the cheap imports and send the cheap trinkets back to their makers...... :shades:
Stop throwing in non-auto extraneous rumor.. Toshiba has nothing to do with this except to throw fuel on your rant.
its a whole American industry thats being lost along with the others to overseas
Just by you stating it over and over and over again doesnt make it so. Nothing is being lost in the US Auto industry. It's bigger than it was 20 yrs ago and the same number of workers are being employed... that means better productivity and lower cost. This is perfect! It's the way life should be everywhere.
Well Hillary will be President soon, and she'll get it sorted out and rescingd all of Bill's mistakes and send the cheap trinkets back to their makers......
We've had a trade deficit every year since 1978. Three Republican presidents have presided over its growth, and a Republican Congress overwhelmingly supported NAFTA. Spend less time typing out rants and more time reading, and maybe you'll begin to see that it isn't a partisan issue.
Yes, but things change and the loss of Amrican jobs always gets the politicians moving, and I think their will be a backlash to all the GM and Ford job losses........
>It's bigger than it was 20 yrs ago and the same number of workers are being employed...
Is the total production here bigger? I have no idea; that's a question, not a challenge. I hadn't thought of it that way. But then the cash flow question...
You have a very calm, respectful manner of discussion here. It makes the dialogue worthwhile.
Comments
Does anyone think things would be that different? Think these two would halt all outside production and just keep it here in the states? Think that more investment would be made here in the states to build new plants? Think these current plant closures wouldn't be inevitable at some point in time?
I'd vote with my life earnings on a big fat HELL NO.
If our country's union costs are so expensive, why would GM and Ford want to increase the workforce here in the states, when you can go elsewhere and get the job done for less? Does anyone think that out of the "goodness of their sweet little hearts" these two would not continue their abandonment of this country to save a few more bucks, thus lining the pockets of the bigwigs up in Detroit?
Doubt it.
I don't think we as consumers are going to do a DAMN thing to stop this, whether they are thriving or not. Meanwhile a new Toyota Tundra plant is open in the middle of Texas.
Oh the humanity.
Of course, you're correct. The desire to outsource comes from a desire to improve margins with lower labor costs. The "American" car companies will fire Americans at the drop of a hat if it can get cheaper bodies somewhere else.
The game has changed because capital markets have globalized, improved technology makes it easier to manage distant operations effectively, and developing countries have been getting rid of restrictive trade rules so that it is easy for US companies to set up shop and take advantage of their lower costs.
Maybe the average man in the street just isn't business-savvy, and doesn't understand that the rules changed a long time ago and that the clock isn't turning back.
It's the same confusing world that has resulted in Chrysler becoming German, Nissan becoming French, both Swedish carmakers being American, every British car being either German or American-owned, some "American" Fords being Mexican and GM having its best prospects in China. I guess that some people are more confused than others.
Try Googling "Honda U.S. content" and see how many links you get...
A Honda Accord has 70% US/Canadian content, and is built in Ohio.
Comments on that? Or just more excuses to avoid answering?
We know a con shell game when we see it, maybe you can redeem yourself by finding the full content data which no one has found yet.......... :shades:
If this is how you perform at work, your employer must be dying to outsource your job. You are trying to delegate the defense of your belief system to me, when I don't even agree with you!
The shell game for monies appears to exceed what ordinary people can scrutinize.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Why? Does a line worker in Atlanta or Detroit benefit when a guy in Hermosillo gets his job?
Rather than pretend that knowing content origins are impossible, recognize that this information has been available for over a decade. The American Automobile Labeling Act provides what you need, if you'd just go to the trouble of reading it.
(And if you did, you'd know that a Toyota Avalon has higher US content than does a Chrysler PT Cruiser, and that a Honda Accord has higher US content than does a Ford Fusion.)
We may get finished before Hillary starts her run for Presidency and shuts off these Chinese imports along with the others Bill let in...........
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
By the way, I own a car with 0% US content, and I'm quite happy with it. This is your ax to grind, not mine.
Don't count on it, no matter what verbage she uses it ain't gonna happen.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And if it matters, the trade deficit increased dramatically during the Reagan and both Bush administrations, while NAFTA was strongly supported by both a US president and a Republican Congress, so I don't see either the Dems or the GOP having many differences in respect to this topic.
A Honda Accord has 70% US/Canadian content, and is built in Ohio.
Comments on that? Or just more excuses to avoid answering?
As a Canadian, I find your statement a bit disturbing. In case you don't know, Canada is a country and not a state of the U.S. So, anyone of you talking about American contents, be sure not to include Canadian contents. Canada is as American as Mexico.
It's not that I am a nationalist and want a big Canadian empire. Just funny how Americans regard Canadian auto content as "domestic" and treat Canadian lumber and beef as "foreign". Be consistant, my friends.
It also ended up being one of the worst cars I owned, so I guess you could twist that around to saying foreign cars suck! :P
(disclaimer...it was 11 years old and had 61,000 miles on it when I bought it, so I don't really hold GM, or the Canadians responsible for its problems)
Put down the maple leaf, before somebody gets hurt...
The window sticker data, which has been provided on every new car sold in the US since 1993, combines US and Canadian content because of the UAW/CAW affiliation and due to the fact that so many "American" automakers have plants and suppliers in Ontario. They don't make the distinction in the labeling law, so I can't either unless I go another step to drill deeper, i.e. considering the specific plant in which the cars were assembled. (But then even that wouldn't tell us what proportion of "content" came from each country.)
SloanInnovations.com
It gets better (or worse, depending upon your perspective) than that. The "Japanese" automakers build relationships with their suppliers. Rather than nickel-and-dime them, as do the "American" companies, they develop cooperative relationships, so that they can ensure that the supplier focuses on maintaining and improving product quality, rather than being motivated to focus on cost cutting. They also cooperate to make sure that the manufacuturer can rely upon a just-in-time inventory system.
The result -- the supplier becomes an integral part of the inventory management and quality control process, improving vehicle quality (the car is only as good as the sum of its parts) and reducing costs because the automakers can reduce its holdings of excess inventories, which conserves the automaker's need to tie up cash in investing and holding those excess inventories. When you see that Toyotas generally have better long-term reliability than do their "American" counterparts, that is one key reason why.
You missed this little detail in your rant about jobs:
From the NYTimes article today:
Ford Eliminating Up to 30,000 Jobs and 14 Factories
quote:
"Because of their growth, there has been no net loss in American automotive jobs over the last 10 years, according to James P. Womack, an author and specialist in manufacturing efficiency. Auto industry employment has held steady at about 1.1 million workers, including those at parts companies, he said.
In fact, those foreign companies, which collectively employed about 60,000 workers at the North American plants last year, are expanding their factories. Later this year, Toyota will open a new truck plant in San Antonio, and it is building another factory in Ontario."
Unquote
Yes it hurts in Wixom and Hapeville, but the 2000 jobs being lost in GA are moving to Texas. People in TX and AL are in fact happy about what is occuring.
Hello, no net loss of jobs by Americans.. see NYT article today. There are jobs to be had and people do have feet. Next issue.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"Hazelwood, Mo. four years after cutting a plant-saving deal with Ford Motor, it is about to lose part of the community's lifeblood. Like Wixom, Mich., and Hapeville, Ga., Hazelwood is scheduled to lose a Ford assembly plant.
"To a small town, that can be "kind of like losing your best friend," says Hapeville Mayor Alan Hallman.
Coupled with job cuts at other major employers in the three areas and prospective military base closings, these are trying times for the city officials.
Still, Hazelwood Mayor T.R. Carr is holding out hope the plant can be revived as one of the Ford facilities that is flexible enough to build several different vehicles. "We're continuing the process," he says.
Hallman says Hapeville had been in negotiations on and off with Ford for three years, discussing possible retooling and production of another vehicle. He had a "sneaking suspicion" things weren't going Hapeville's way until he heard about a Detroit newspaper account late Sunday that suggested the plant might not be on the list. It was wrong: The company now says it will close the plant in August.
"It's been a real roller coaster," says Hallman.
They are feeling the pain in Hapeville...."
Yes, no one gets hurt......... :sick:
This is false. I know so because I was a direct independent supplier to the Detroit automakers for 15-20 years and then indirectly to a couple of transplants for a few years. The major parts, steel aluminum, fabric, plastic, etc come from the US; US Steel, Steel Dynamics, Alcoa. Delphi!!! hello!
..and the bulk of the finacials flow overseas.
and then back into my 401k plan, thank you very much.
I am sure the Unions will be welcome with open arms at the Honda and Toyota plants.......
And if they are not? So? If you are a UAW member I do understand your pain. But you can retrain yourself or use your expertise in a new facility where the UAW is not present. It's pleasant in TX and TN.
Two comments here - first, it should be that the big 2.5 don't care about anything but this quarter's bottom line; they've had a very short-term focus for quite a while, and it's now biting them where it hurts.
And secondly, you're right about the outsourcing - the big 2.5 have no qualms about buying from OUS suppliers when they can get a better deal, so why should US consumers? What's magic about using the Big 2.5 as a middleman to buy foreign?
Real American heros..........
Not in this area you can't. People with previous automobile-related work experience were not even considered for Honda's Ohio plant; same was said for Georgetown. Sounds good thought when you say it, like that's the way it ought to be.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
20 yrs ago the integrated steel mills began having problems being competitive when the mini-mills openned up in LA and KY and AR and SC. It drove the USW members out of Bethlehem and Youngstown and Gary down to nicer locations or they just retrained and continued improving our economy.
You have a very negative view of our capability and resilience. In your's and Lemko's view, you lose your job you become a welfare case. This just isnt true. But if that's your opinion, go with it.
It's a shame that the "American" FoMoCo has such deep, loyal ties to the US that it prefers to start shifting production to Mexico. I guess we'll have to allow Toyota to pick up the slack, as of the two companies, TMC is the only one that actually wants to hire more Americans.
Given your attitude, why wouldn't you want your money to go to the company most likely to give you a job? I would think that you'd want to punish Ford for being such bad Americans!
It's just being reallocated within the US to more efficient facilities. If Ford said, which they can't, 'We are closing Hapeville and building a new plant in Arkansas to build minivans more efficiently'. Would that be OK in your book?
And GM has to stop importing that AVEO 'trinket' from Korea. What do they think they are WalMart?
I heard somewhere that Toshiba is looking to buy Westinghouse...one by one they are being picked off....they close up the plants and business's....we lose the house cause the mortgage is due.. we have to move out of the dead towns and sections of the country...but then its really nothing, its just a job shift..... :lemon:
I'd like to blame Hillary Clinton or ACLU for this one. No point in holding anyone in Detroit or Dearborn responsible for whatever it is that they do...
its a whole American industry thats being lost along with the others to overseas
Just by you stating it over and over and over again doesnt make it so. Nothing is being lost in the US Auto industry. It's bigger than it was 20 yrs ago and the same number of workers are being employed... that means better productivity and lower cost. This is perfect! It's the way life should be everywhere.
We've had a trade deficit every year since 1978. Three Republican presidents have presided over its growth, and a Republican Congress overwhelmingly supported NAFTA. Spend less time typing out rants and more time reading, and maybe you'll begin to see that it isn't a partisan issue.
Is the total production here bigger? I have no idea; that's a question, not a challenge. I hadn't thought of it that way. But then the cash flow question...
You have a very calm, respectful manner of discussion here. It makes the dialogue worthwhile.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,