Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

andre1969

That's a beautifully we kept car? How often does it get waxed and washed?

Umm, I refuse to answer that on the grounds that it will make me look guilty of automobile abuse. I think the last time I really gave it a good wash AND wax was back in late July/early August 2008, when I put it in a car show. I was supposed to take my '76 LeMans, but it wouldn't start. And it was blocking in my '79 5th Ave, which runs pretty well and I'd trust more on a long trip. That blue thing can be unpredictable. In fact, I tried to start it this evening and it refused. But I can almost guarantee that when I walk out tomorrow morning, I'll turn the key, and it'll fire up quicker than any fuel-injected car ever did!

Here's the most recent pic I took of it:


It's pretty filthy, partly because it hasn't been washed in awhile, but it also has a lot of dust on it from a big load of driveway gravel I had delivered.

It does look pretty when it's washed and waxed, but that 31 year old paint oxidizes fast. And I swear, sometimes, I'd like to borrow my uncle's 44 magnum and plug its Lean Burn and put it out of its misery.

Hmm, wouldn't that be poetic justice...using a Magnum to put a Mopar out of its misery. :P

andre1969

Yeah, I think those "enivronmentally friendly" paints started in 1987. Basically, anything built in America around that timeframe would peel in record time. In fact, that's how you could tell the American-built Hondas and Toyotas from the Japanese ones...the American ones would peel!

imidazol97

>"enivronmentally friendly" paints started in 1987

Was that essentially a change from petroleum-based paints to water-based paints?

The catch that I talked about was going from three coats to two and finding out the third coat was needed or the two coats weren't as friendly as the paint chemists had thought they would be.

There also have been problems with clearcoats. A band parent has a 95 Accord, I believe, that has paint splotches from the clear coat over the black going bad. I notice lately the hood is all rough. They may have sanded it and primed it to be repainted. It had mostly gone. There are several foreign cars around with paint troubles. I don't think they got off free. Was that Accord build in Ohio? Maybe it's the US paint that's at fault?

uplanderguy

What car is that? Doesn't look like anything I'm aware of. And what's it cost if available in this country?

circlew

Well, my Mom had a 5th Ave and the interior was good quality with Fine Corinthian Leather!

That's a nice ride!

Regards,
OW

bumpy

I dunno; I've known a few guys who had V6 manual Tiburons. Now, the 4-cylinder auto was a girly car, but I think that crowd moved on to the Scion tC and the Cobalt coupe once those came out.

fintail

I've known one guy who had a Tiburon - and it was that ghastly looking original version. The car aged fairly poorly. I've also known one girl who had a Tiburon, a later 4cyl model. It could be a "gender neutral" car, going one way or another depending on options or colors.

I do think a Genesis is more masculine, especially the sedan...but not so strongly as to repel a female buyer.

fintail

There's a 98-02 Accord in the garage of the building where I live that has terrible paint - it's black, and the paint is dull on flat surfaces, thinned and patchy on top, and in some places almost looks like the victim of a fire. The car must have lived under some acid rain or something - unusual to see around here where even most of those late 80s cars held up better than in most places. Funny as near it parks a 92-93 Accord, which is in really good condition anyway, but looks like a brand new car compared to its younger brother.

I seem to notice more orange peel on some modern cars than old ones. My MBs have had good paint quality, but both of the later cars have been prone to chipping - I think a common fault MB had from the mid 90s to the mid 00s.

andres3

Have you seen those recent model Neons going around with Pale Red bumpers and normal red body color. The paint on the bumpers fades 1,000 times faster than the rest of the car.

I laugh out loud at Chrsyler quality when I see it. I know a friend of my wife has one of the defected painted Neons, and yes, Chrysler denied warranty coverage for the defect. :mad: : :confuse: :sick:

andres3

She said in college she dated a guy briefly that owned a Tiburon. She's convinced he was gay.

:P

circlew

Point is, a great paint job is just that...fiberglass or metal.

Regards,
OW

andre1969

I rear-ended someone with my 2000 Intrepid a couple months after I bought it. Very, very minor hit, although it was enough to bend my license plate up, put a crease in the front fascia, make the paint spider web a bit, and crease the hood ever so slightly. And you could see a stress mark in the paint where you just know it wanted to split and then start peeling.

I was afraid those spider web cracks would spread, and flake off, but in the 10 years I had the car, it never got any worse. Now I know Chrysler paint quality was bad from the late '80's through the mid-90's perhaps. And I think those Neons in that funky powdery blue were the worst! But, they were definitely doing something right by 2000! My Intrepid was also built in Canada, so maybe they do something better up there, eh? :shades:

BTW, what color was your Neon?

uplanderguy

Point is, a great paint job is just that...fiberglass or metal.

To imply that there is no difference in applying paint to metal or fiberglass is being delusional.

I believe in comparing things, apples-to-apples, oranges-to-oranges.

dave8697

Fusion not comparable to Malibu?
My experience with GM cars is that they have a couple hundred extra pounds of weight and that part of that is working to keep it quiet inside the car. I didn't test drive a new Fusion because when I went to the Ford dealer they were playing bait and switch with me. The only Fusion for the TV adv price was beige colored and was a 1/4 mile hike in 95 degree sun to go look at.

The extra weight in some of my GM's hurts gas mileage in stop and go driving but doesn't make much difference on the hwy. The Silver Fusion I drove got nearly 30 mpg for the trip and it had the V6. If I owned it and it was that noisy at 39k miles, I would be pretty dissatisfied with the noise but happy with the looks and mileage. I just happen to prefer the Malibu looks, inside and out, and so far it's been quiet.

My only Ford, a '98 V6 Mustang, has factory headers. Can't expect it to be quiet. Have never owned any other Ford. Building up $500 a year on my GM card makes it tough for other makes to compete for my business, or for me to consider 1-2 yr old used cars.

dave8697

4 of the 5 most affordable housing markets in the US are ex GM cities. I interpret this as: If we don't buy American cars, cities lose jobs and tax base, homes become empty, housing becomes very affordable.

andre1969

Back when I delivered pizzas, one of my fellow drivers had a silver Tiburon. Forget the year, but it was the style with the four little round headlights. I remember the first night he brought it to work. I sat in it, and was pretty impressed with the front seat interior room. This guy was about my height, so like me, he needed that legroom.

I thought that 4-headlight setup was a bit odd, but a few years later, when it went to that style that looked sort of like a knockoff of a mid-90's Supra, I thought it was a hot looking little car.

andres3

My Neon was "brilliant blue," which is nowhere close to powder blue. Actually, since I took care of the car like a baby and washed it frequently, the paint is one thing that held up OK, though it did have imperfections in it like waves in the body/paint, swirls galore, and such. Unfortunately caring and maintaining the vehicle supremely did not result in improved reliability. Engineered self destruction was impossible to overcome!

andres3

I interpret this as: If we don't buy American cars, cities lose jobs and tax base, homes become empty, housing becomes very affordable.

I think that's a good thing for America. I think Housing is still 25 to 50% way overpriced in most markets (especially California). We need to stop artificially holding housing costs high with bailouts and subsidies, and start living in the real world. Affordable housing sounds good to me.

tlong

Fusion not comparable to Malibu?
My experience with GM cars is that they have a couple hundred extra pounds of weight and that part of that is working to keep it quiet inside the car. I didn't test drive a new Fusion because when I went to the Ford dealer they were playing bait and switch with me. The only Fusion for the TV adv price was beige colored and was a 1/4 mile hike in 95 degree sun to go look at.

I say that because the Malibu is nicer inside and quieter; the Fusion is noisier but sportier and has SYNC instead of that (IMHO) dreadful OnStar that you get to pay monthly for. It's sort of like the difference between Mazda and Toyota - one is quieter numbness and one is zoom-zoom. Perhaps similar in size but depending upon your driving preferences, one car may clearly be a better fit.

uplanderguy

that (IMHO) dreadful OnStar that you get to pay monthly for.

It's free for a year. And after that, you can choose the level of service you want.

I used to look for my Chevys without it. Then, when it started being included with the car, I grudgingly accepted. Now, I wouldn't put my wife and kids in a vehicle without it. Last year, they went to NYC and were in a torrential downpour where exits were flooded, and could not find the exit for their hotel. My wife called me in hysterics. I told her to try OnStar. Even though we only had the most basic package at that point, they were on with her for twenty minutes until she pulled into the hotel parking lot. I don't believe anybody else has anything like it. Just because GM has it doesn't mean it's 'dreadful'.

coontie66

My Chevy Silverado had it when I purchased 4 years or so back. I dropped it as it was expensive and I am retired. I didn't think I would like XM radio but I love it now after using it a while. The PHONE service through the same system wasn't much. I thought it was via satellite but its no better than a handheld Verizon. We are in the MTNS of NC and it didn't work lots of places and that was just the same places as the handheld Verizon.

deltheking

The Malibu is quieter than Fusion but IMO no way is its interior better than the Fusion. The Malibu is just a bigger Cobalt interiorly. And it feels so cramped inside. But certainly quieter than the Fusion based on the rental cars that I have driven. Fusion is decent but way overhyped and overrated. Better than the previous Taurus-sure- but still behind the best but catching up.Good for all of us buyers !! :P

uplanderguy

I interpret this as: If we don't buy American cars, cities lose jobs and tax base, homes become empty, housing becomes very affordable.

I think that's a good thing for America. I think Housing is still 25 to 50% way overpriced in most markets (especially California). We need to stop artificially holding housing costs high with bailouts and subsidies, and start living in the real world. Affordable housing sounds good to me.

That is without a doubt the most preposterous logic I have ever heard. Cities losing jobs and tax base, and homes become empty--GOOD FOR AMERICA!

Sheesh--on that note I have posted my last comment on this forum. I fully expect to have snappy replies made--I just won't be responding.

fezo

The Malibu is just a bigger Cobalt interiorly.

Interiorly? Now there's a new word!

lemko

Let me guess, two of those cities are Detroit and Cleveland.

lemko

Housing's affordable any place where there's no longer a reason to live there. Sure, I could buy a whole block in some town in NE Pennsylvania compared to what I paid for my place in Philadelphia, but where am I going to work?

lemko

I agree that housing is still psychotically overpriced, but shedding jobs and decimating the tax base is not the way to go! Come to Philly and you'll see how well that works out! We've got more people dependent on government handouts than people contributing to the tax base.

lemko

The Malibu is a lot nicer inside than any Cobalt!

fezo

Oh, I agree. The Malibu is much nicer than the Cobalt. I lean towardteh Fusion myself but there's certainly room to argue the point.

deltheking

OK ,let me fix it for you. The Malibu`s interior is just a bigger version of the Cobalt`s.
The higher trim level LTZ might have a better interior but the base Malibu is similar to the cobalt. I drive quite a few rental cars as I travel ,and mostly rentals are either Hyun/Kia or GM/Chrysler. I have driven both the Malibu and Cobalt and their base trim interiors are very similar. :P

But must say, Cobalt is my favorite rental car.Compact size- I like smaller rentals in a new city,it has cruise and steering wheel controls unlike Kia Rio or Accent and has 2 big cup holders with good trunk size. Perfect rental car. Reliability is not an issue in a rental.But alas, not for private buying. Story of GM really !! :sick:

tlong

I used to look for my Chevys without it. Then, when it started being included with the car, I grudgingly accepted. Now, I wouldn't put my wife and kids in a vehicle without it. Last year, they went to NYC and were in a torrential downpour where exits were flooded, and could not find the exit for their hotel. My wife called me in hysterics. I told her to try OnStar. Even though we only had the most basic package at that point, they were on with her for twenty minutes until she pulled into the hotel parking lot. I don't believe anybody else has anything like it. Just because GM has it doesn't mean it's 'dreadful'.

I call it dreadful because a) it costs on an ongoing basis; b) GM has chosen to offer this for profit motive rather than offering GPS systems in many of their vehicles.

The situation you described would also be handled easily by a GPS that did not require a monthly fee. But what's more dreadful is that they artificially limit built-in GPS availability to push this system instead. And that removes choices for the buyer.

cooterbfd

".....The situation you described would also be handled easily by a GPS that did not require a monthly fee. But what's more dreadful is that they artificially limit built-in GPS availability to push this system instead. And that removes choices for the buyer. "

Yeah, but GPS can't slow down a stolen car, only tell the cops where the chase is. And GPS won't call you and ask if you are ok when the airbags deploy.

If you choose to pay more, GPS won't look up a location for you and download the map to the nav system, nor will it offer concierge service either.

Again yes, you do have to pay for it, but it offers more. I have it in all 3 of my newer GM vehicles.

Anyhow, whats wrong with making a profit on a service offered???

tlong

Anyhow, whats wrong with making a profit on a service offered???

Nothing, if they offered Onstar AND built in GPS as separate options. The push onstar and don't offer the GPS. Some of us don't want to pay every month forever for the the features of OnStar.

andres3

A call to the hotel clerk would have sufficed for directions to the hotel. ONSTAR seems like an unnecessary added expense to me. Everything its good for, happens in one in a million vehicles (stolen, crashed severely). I'd rather have something sophisticated the keeps the car from getting stolen or crashed in the first place (put the money there).

Put the money where it matters, in better brakes, lighter weight for better handling, better anti theft devices.

oldcem

Do you call it dreadful when you have to pony up cash for a map update for your GPS?? Just curious - the updates for my car's Nav system are about $250.

Regards:
Oldengineer

tlong

Do you call it dreadful when you have to pony up cash for a map update for your GPS?? Just curious - the updates for my car's Nav system are about $250.

Actually I do. And I've been running the same nav data for the past 5 years in my car. I don't really like paying $180 to update and I've rarely had any problems with stale data.

lemko

Are you refering to GPS as the same thing as a Navigation System? If so, my DTS has both OnStar and Nav. Funny, I seldom use either.

lemko

I find better anti-theft devices from aftermarket manufacturers like Smith & Wesson, Beretta, Glock, and Colt.

dave8697

My 1LT has sync. Only the LS model doesn't. Thats 3 out of the 4 malibu models having it. the Fusion sport isn't the base model.

Malibu 1LT comes with:
bluetooth sync
onstar
nav
XM
car phone
ipod port

Onstar is like $139 a year after first free year. My kid got lost and signed up for ATT nav on his cell phone and they started charging him $10 a month. Add about 17% in typical taxes for anything on a cell phone and there you have the price of Onstar with nav.

XM is 3 months free and then about $139 a year. How often does the drive to work end up being half commercials. 40 cents a day to eliminate them.

anythngbutgm

Sync is a lot more than Bluetooth

marsha7

Now THERE is something that I agree with completely and totally, even if it is lemko... :P

fintail

The best aftermarket anti-theft device is a "diesel" badge...also, installing a boot over your gear selector to make it look like a manual also works. Both would make a car theft-proof, at least on this continent.

stever

lol, the fake manual gear selector could really work. Brilliant.

fezo

Don't forget the dummy clutch....

tlong

My 1LT has sync. Only the LS model doesn't. Thats 3 out of the 4 malibu models having it. the Fusion sport isn't the base model.

Malibu 1LT comes with:
bluetooth sync
onstar
nav
XM
car phone
ipod port

Onstar is like $139 a year after first free year. My kid got lost and signed up for ATT nav on his cell phone and they started charging him $10 a month. Add about 17% in typical taxes for anything on a cell phone and there you have the price of Onstar with nav.

XM is 3 months free and then about $139 a year. How often does the drive to work end up being half commercials. 40 cents a day to eliminate them.

Ford SYNC is much more than bluetooth capability.
I have XM in my Acura TL - kept if for a few years and then dropped it, and I don't really miss it much. Listening to Podcasts these days.

cooterbfd

If he is, then the same can be said for my Lacrosse. Rarely need them, but I have them, and they are there for me.

cooterbfd

Yeah, but I think it would be priceless to see the look on the thief's face when the reduced power light comes on and they have to coast to a stop. There is an Onstar commercial on the radio now where the caller states that they actually pushed his wife's car out of the way and into the street to get to his car sometime in the middle of the night. The theft wasn't noticed until the next morning. Obviously, the car was recovered unharmed or it wouldn't have made the commercial.

fintail

Hmm...maybe I need to patent this idea before it is too late. Some recent pseudo-sporty cars do have a leather boot over an automatic selector, but you can tell its not a manual. It also needs a new shift knob with a gear diagram to complete the look. A fake clutch pedal attached to the floor or bottom of the dash could be included in the deluxe package.

tlong

Hmm...maybe I need to patent this idea before it is too late. Some recent pseudo-sporty cars do have a leather boot over an automatic selector, but you can tell its not a manual. It also needs a new shift knob with a gear diagram to complete the look. A fake clutch pedal attached to the floor or bottom of the dash could be included in the deluxe package.

That's a pretty brilliant idea. But why stop there? The Super-deluxe package should also have one of those cheap radio covers to make it look like a cassette deck, and fake door window cranks for each front door. :shades:

fintail

Along with rebadging on some cars - your E63 AMG becomes an E200 CDi, WRX STi becomes an Impreza base