I believe a Fusion SE would meet most folk's needs for a domestic
Really? It's made in Mexico.
I am not aware of a single GM automobile (although some trucks are) that are built in Mexico. The Aveo, their bottom-line econobox, is made overseas but they have advertised it as such. I'm told the next Aveo will be made in Michigan.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Well, maybe this is the 'new GM'--although I've had out-of-warranty repairs done for me over the past twenty-plus years on a couple GM's I've had...for free or a reduced price. But, this latest situation is the first free repairs at this level of mileage I've had. I have never, ever bought an extended warranty.
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Honestly, that far out of warranty, I wouldn't expect it to be covered under warranty. I've never had luck getting anything covered out of warranty. My 07 Expedition cost me some money even though it was still under the "extended powertrain warranty". I complained but no luck. At 59k they wouldn't warranty the coil pack or give me a break on the nearly $1k to change the spark plugs that have a design issue. They break off in the head when removed. 3 broke while they changed them, equaling about and extra $200 per extraction. When it's time to change the plugs again, I'll probably just trade it in so I don't risk having the heads pulled if they can't get the plugs out. Dealer told me it would be about $2k per head. No thanks.
So far I'm having a lousy track record with my domestic vehicles. By 60k miles, I've spend over $1k in repairs on my last two.
Transmission, a/c compressor, fuel pump, pitman arm etc (not to mentioned all of the electrical issues I lived with) equaled about $4k in repairs on a 3 year old vehicle. No good will from GM except for thanks for your open wallet. About the closest thing to an apology I received from the dealer was, "we see this problem a lot".
Wouldn't a three-year old vehicle have been under warranty? I'm sorry you apparently had a crappy vehicle and a crappy dealer. I believe GM is doing more for customers now than ever, but even twenty years ago my dealer (and I've bought from two) would have offered to do something out of warranty if I was over the mileage limit but below the three-year threshold.
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I am not aware of a single GM automobile (although some trucks are) that are built in Mexico.
Lots of Suburban's and Yukon's are. My Suburban was from Mexico and when I was shopping for a new Suburban/Yukon XL in 08, I couldn't find one made in the US. I have no idea what the percentage of US/Mexico manufactured Suburban are.
Of course, GM/Ford/Chrysler import all sorts of foreign cars from Canada.
And have for decades. I remember looking at Canadian-built Monte Carlos and Monzas, new, in the '70's. They're UAW there.
I do think there's a difference between 'built in Canada' in 'built in Mexico'. And I am not doubting in the least that quality vehicles are built there. But you never saw that happen, pre-NAFTA. I think they are most likely paying third-world wages there. And I would rather not reward the manufacturer for that by buying a model of theirs that is built there.
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It was a 00 model back then it was 36k miles total warranty, the trans died around 47k and the fuel pump and a/c compressor crapped out between 60-70k. So my issues with GM was between 03-06.
Same with my 07 Expedition, I was within the 3 year threshold on the 36k mile warranty, but was at 59k when the coil pack died. Granted the coil pack was only like $80, but it was the hours of labor pulling the damn spark plugs that was costly. They offered nothing other than telling me not to let the new plugs stay in for more than 60k miles.
I had an 89 Mercury Tracer that was made in Mexico. Actually was a good little car. My '00 VW Jetta TDI was also built in Mexico and for the short time I had it, it was perfect. It was the Suburban I had that must have been built after a 12 Corona siesta.
Yeah, I'd consider an Altima as well. I finally got a ride in my Mom & stepdad's '08, which is just a 4-cyl, but has leather and sunroof (I think its' called an SL model). I have to admit, I was a bit underwhelmed once I actually rode in it, but I think that's my Park Ave distorting my sense of reality. Mainly, I just thought the Altima rode a little rough, hit the bigger bumps kind of hard, and just didn't seem as roomy as I'd remembered.
Like the Aveo, the Tracer was advertised as a captive import. I'm talking about vehicles that used to be made in the states or Canada, started being assembled in Mexico after NAFTA. Not a positive thing for our country, I think even the most jaded would agree.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Not a positive thing for our country, I think even the most jaded would agree.
I have to admit, that the idea of the Fusion being built in Mexico just doesn't sit well with me. Even if it's a perfectly fine car. All things being equal, I'd rather buy an Altima made in the United States than a Fusion made in Mexico.
As for all the talk of where the profits go? Well, I guess I could buy some Nissan stock, so that profits would go to ME! :shades:
My brother had an 08 Altima with a 4cyl. It seemed like a good car. Like you mentioned, they don't have the softest ride, but they are not designed to. My brother now has an '10 Fusion Sport which I haven't seen in person yet, but he's raving about it. He said it is much quieter than the Altima, granted it has the 3.5v6. Plus he works in the cell phone industry, so he's really digging SYNC. He said it works well and he's very impressed by it.
I'll be seeing him in a few weeks and I am looking forward to taking the Fusion for a spin.
Andre, I'd think just about anything in the Altima category will seem a bit small and definitely more firm. What did you think of the CVT?
Andre, I'd think just about anything in the Altima category will seem a bit small and definitely more firm. What did you think of the CVT?
Yeah, I think if I had gone right from my Intrepid to something like an Altima, Fusion, or Malibu, there wouldn't have been as much of a shock, but I got used to the Park Ave and it spoiled me a bit. The Intrepid was wide inside...seemed wider to me than the Park Ave, and the back seat seemed like it had more legroom. But the Park Ave's front seat goes back a lot further, sits up higher, and is much better padded.
I didn't get a chance to drive my Mom and stepdad's Altima; only rode in it. And really didn't notice the CVT, one way or another. I actually prefer a transmission that shifts crisply, but that's not what most people think of as "refinement". I should go test drive an Altima though, to see if the CVT is something I'd get used to.
Nissan's CVT is a bit different in that it's programmed to make stepped ratio changes. The CVT the Ford 500 my wife used to have would just smoothly change ratios. I was weird flooring it and seeing the tack swing to about 6k rpm at around 30mph and staying there until, you let off the gas. What I liked most about it was cruising on the highway. If you needed to accelerate or go up a grade, it would change ratios almost imperceptibly.
Just so you know, I've shopped Nissan's a lot, in fact I have a new Maxima, but I did shop the Altima and it is a bit of an oddity in the mid-size car segment! In the front of the car, it is just about class leading in front legroom and headroom, yet is at near the bottom of the class in both rear legroom and rear headroom. Its pretty strange for a car to be like that with dimensions being near class leading in the front but the poorest in the rear? Go figure :confuse: :confuse:
If your 6ft or taller, the Altima rear is going to be really useless for you. I'm 5ft 9in and my head, without wearing a ball cap or having my hair up, was just about touching the rear ceiling!
CAW, actually. They split off from the UAW back in the '80s IIRC. Mexican-built cars started showing up here after the tariffs were rescinded. The same was true for Canada after those tariffs were dropped.
I don't think there's any meaningful difference betweeen buying a car built in one foreign country versus another. Canada, Japan, Mexico, South Africa, Poland, etc. are all the same to me.
wow, that is wild seeing an Altima performing Civic duty. When I was in Vegas I saw a current gen. CTS being used as run of the mill taxis. I tried to get a ride in one, but I ended up getting jammed into the back of a cheap, rattling Malibu.
I was in San Francisco yesterday and I saw a yellow painted Ford Fusion taxi.
I keep up on TSB's, and am always looking at the 'net for discussions of 'free warranties', etc. The free repairs just happened last month for me. My coworker claims he never had service done anyplace else besides the Honda dealer, and he doesn't tow. His trans should not have required regular maintenance at 70K when it blew up. He said his Service Manager said that's all Honda would do for him (paying the rest except for $1,800) and that that should be enough for him to buy another Honda next time. This happened within the past year. The Service Manager acted like he was doing him a big favor.
Whereas I would ask why those first two parts are having problems at under 100K in the first place. No car properly maintained should have transmission problems at under 100K (and yes, I know Honda had transmission issues).
My Acura TL has 96K on it right now and I've done tires, battery, brakes, a piece of door handle trim, and one recall for the outside air temp sensor. That's it.
I respect your views as well and the Mustang rocks! But check out the Genesis because it's the real deal. :shades:
The 2010 Genesis Coupe is a purpose-built rear-wheel drive sports coupe featuring two performance-focused engines - a 212-horsepower 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine and a range-topping all-aluminum 306-horsepower, DOHC 3.8-liter V6 engine.
I do think there's a difference between 'built in Canada' in 'built in Mexico'. And I am not doubting in the least that quality vehicles are built there. But you never saw that happen, pre-NAFTA. I think they are most likely paying third-world wages there. And I would rather not reward the manufacturer for that by buying a model of theirs that is built there.
The problem is the UAW. If you are Ford or GM and you are barely on the edge of existence and your average labor/benefits rate for a US worker is say, $100K/year, and in Mexico it is $25K/year (totally guessing at all of those numbers), then what would you do? If the UAW was willing to turn that $100K into say, $60K then maybe the job stays. But if it does not budge then you move your production out of the country.
Just read an article that the UAW is actually the union where the Boeing C-17 is made in Long Beach, CA. This is the LAST Boeing manufacturing in the state. Well the union is striking for benefits! Their ship is sinking but they want more. Boeing is opening up a 787 manufacturing line in South Carolina to get away from the union influences in Washington. The last union strike cost them $billions.
No company is going to put up with labor acting like that. The company's job is to be profitable. The companies that put up with it (GM) go bankrupt.
True...shouldn't happen. And I might add my Uplander didn't need transmission repairs, except for a solenoid that was shorting only when the vehicle was hot (we'd notice hard shifting on the return drive home after having driven it 1 1/2 hours to visit family...didn't require an entire new trans as the Odyssey did. But I would take 3 problems fixed free, over one needing fixed for me paying $1,800 as was my co-worker's situation. As it was, it wasn't inconvenient for me as I had all three done in one visit. I think it is extraordinary that I had this kind of work done for free at 79K miles with no extended warranty and no screaming. And this is from the "Satan" of automakers, GM.
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True...shouldn't happen. And I might add my Uplander didn't need transmission repairs, except for a solenoid that was shorting only when the vehicle was hot (we'd notice hard shifting on the return drive home after having driven it 1 1/2 hours to visit family...didn't require an entire new trans as the Odyssey did. But I would take 3 problems fixed free, over one fixed for me paying $1,800 as was my co-worker's situation. As it was, it wasn't inconvenient for me as I had all three done in one visit. I think it is extraordinary that I had this kind of work done for free at 79K miles with no extended warranty and no screaming. And this is from the "Satan" of automakers, GM.
It might be more due to a good dealer than GM. I think a lot of times when we bash brands or praise brands regarding service (as opposed to the vehicle itself), we are reacting to a particularly good or particularly bad dealership. Although there are makes that are well known to have good service (Lexus, Cadillac) and poor service (VW).
Truth be known, I wrote a polite email to GM customer service saying that I was disappointed in needing repairs like this and told them I was a longtime GM customer (since early '80's--true) and that I like the Service Dept. at my dealer but that I didn't consider this a Service Dept. issue. I was called the same day, told to get an estimate, they dealt with my Service Manager (new at the dealership and I had never met him, although I know and like my Service Writer there) and the rest is history. Maybe because my Service Dept. personnel told them I was a good customer in that I get oil changes and basic maintenance done there, I don't know, but I think I was treated well by GM in Detroit, because that's ultimately where I started with this.
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I was in Detroit when the 1964 Mustang was introduced, however, I didn't get involved with the Big3 until 1968..In the old days it was great volume and lots of fun, Detroit ruled...Then our politicans got involved and the auto industry went the same route as the TV manufacturers..only reverse direction..TVs went overseas, and the Asian Auto guys were given 5yrs in 1980 to establish their stateside supply base to meet the requirement of 75% domestic content..on cars assembled in the USA..Presto--you know the rest, Detroit jumped off the cliff..
The reverse of this political move in the 80's to save Harley/Davidson was to slap an high tax on Asian bikes for a 5yr period, since Harley was down to producing only 50,000 bikes/yr..bleeding badly..I know I was selling them cable assemblies, throttle,clutch, and brake produced by a Japanese mfgr located in Battle Creek, Mich, a div of Nippon Cable..100% supplier of all Mercury Marine cables starting in 1981..I left after 2yrs, 1984..From 1985 to 2002 was involved the forging and casting sales to auto, trucking, and military..no sales to Asian car companies..no money in it..
With the Govt involved with GM and Chrysler and being a supplier in this day and age has got to be a real pain, no money in it..
Love the Mustang, and the Shelby GT is still sitting in the showroom waiting for me..It isn't the fastest nor the best handling, probably doesn't really excel in any area, but it's ALL-AMERICAN, loud, and a real bang on the road..Sorry, the Genesis coupe is just too cute..I pass..
A good friend of mine was a service manager at a GM dealer. Repeat business usually takes priority over first time or even second time buyers according to him. There were a lot of "repeat" visitors to his service dept for repairs so apparently they were on a first name basis. For instance, GMT-800 and 900 customers were usually in yearly for their annual Intermediate Steering Shaft replacements or rear differential replacements. GMT-360's for "throwaway" supsension links or cars for wheel bearings and ball joints. These customers were on their 4th or 5th Government Motors product and had 3 or 4 more at home so my friend could get them right in and out the door with a significant discount on labor and parts.
Or dealer cost parts and free labor if you run the place
I'm thinking you should be a paid endorser for Hyundai....LOLOL It's kinda comical that whatever the topic....whatever the discussion....you find a way to sing their praises.
Speaking of the Genesis, I parked next to a charcoal gray one the other day and for gits and shiggles I was checking it out (from a distance, I'm not one of those people who gets slobber and fingerprints all over somebody elses car ) and one thing that really caught my eye was the paint quality. My gosh it was good.
Actually, forget good, it was amazing. Like glass, not a single swirl mark, bit of orange peel or hint of non-uniformity.
It didn't reeally surprise me tho becuase every year I attend the Auto Show curcuit I get a laugh at the quality of a 20 thousand dollar Hyundai and one of the worst paint jobs on the entire floor is a 90 thousand dollar Z06 or it's lesser bretheren. Orange peel city!
Who does the paint jobs in Bowling Green? MAACO? Or does the crew who clean the bathrooms over there multi-tasking.... :P
It didn't reeally surprise me tho becuase every year I attend the Auto Show curcuit I get a laugh at the quality of a 20 thousand dollar Hyundai and one of the worst paint jobs on the entire floor is a 90 thousand dollar Z06 or it's lesser bretheren. Orange peel city!
I'll tell you what really surprised me...at the DC auto show this past winter, I was really impressed with the paint quality on the Dodges and Chryslers! They had seemed to be slipping in the past few years, but this time around they had mirror-smooth finishes that would give a Lexus a run for its money! I know the production models can't be like that, though. I'm wondering if they had specially-prepped vehicles for the show circuit, this time around?
I've also noticed that Benz and BMW don't really have those smooth-as-glass finishes like they used to, while GM and Ford actually do seem to be improving.
Andre, I don't have a link handy but I do remember reading an article that was about paint quality and Chrysler scored the highest for consistency, quality, shine and I believe choices. It was either first or close to first in the rankings.
I grew up a Ford guy and that is one of the only things about Ford products that irked me was their paint quality. Even brand spanking new they had no lustre and were always swirled and chipped.
>" His trans should not have required regular maintenance at 70K when it blew up"
Seems to me that our CR-V and Pilot required tranny service every 30K miles. But I may be wrong on that.
If true and if your friend missed both of them and the car was at 70K, that could be a reason. It could also be a crooked dealer that got paid by Honda but wanted a little more. Maybe the car was 8-9 years old and Honda figured it was past any responsibility of theirs. Maybe he bought it used and Honda didn't feel any need to absorb the entire bill. And maybe it was exactly as your friend says and maybe the car was just a few years old. I wasn't at the dealer with him, maybe you were.
I do know that my experiences with Nissan and Honda have been great. The experiences I have had driving domestics since 1957 have been mixed as far as reliability goes but when the warranty ran out I always had to dig deep or do it myself. Chevy didn't pay for my son's Suburban Tranny and Ford didn't pay for my mother's Explorer trannys at 60K or at 90k.
Mazda replaced my MPV tranny free, at 51K miles.
In my opinion the domestics tend to ride better and be a bit quieter when new. But the reason I've gotten rid of each domestic is due to reliability and rattles. I got rid of my 03 Pilot because after 7 years of driving it I decided to get a light duty Pickup. Thus the Ridge Line. My wife drove her 95 Maxima for 8 years but developed knee problems and it was hard for her to stoop to get in and out of it, thus the CR-V. With one exception (see below), we got to where we didn't keep domestics past the 3/36 warranty because it tended to get expensive fast.
FWIW I still have a 1978 Chevy G20 van. I hang on to it because of sentimental reasons. It has become a rattle trap and the engine, tranny, and rear end have all been replaced. Chevy didn't pay for any of those. :lemon: But insurance and tags are cheap and it no longer requires inspections. Local driving will result in 8-9 mpg. and 14-15 mpg on the road at 60 mph. It doesn't get driven much.
We got a freebie a few weeks back. Toyota modified the 09 RAV4's gas pedal. WHOOPEE!
You'd be wise to change the trans fluid in any vehicle every 30k or so. In the manual for my Expedition it states 100k interval on the 6 speed trans, but states if using under severe duty, towing etc, every 30k. So that's what I do. At 60k miles I changed the transfer case and front and rear diff fluid.
Unless you tow or live in dusty/hilly conditions or use your vehicle as a delivery vehicle, GM for years hasn't recommended routine trans service until 100K miles. I figured the rest of the manufacturers would be the same. (I'll save some of you from saying it: "GM's recommended trans service is to replace the trans at (fill in the blank) miles!") As I said...2005 Honda..needed new trans at 70K miles. 2005 Chevy (horrors!)...needed trans solenoid and replaced free at 79K miles.
My coworker's Honda was bought new and is a 2005 model-year, same as my Chevy van.
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Phhft, rare occurance for the 4LE60's to make it to 100k without full rebuild. Google "4LE60 Junk".
Even my service manger friend said stay far away from them, go for the 80.
That's an understatement. I know people who've had 3 rebuilds in 100k miles with the 4l60e. I think that trans is worse than the Chrysler trans axle back in the late 80's. I won't own another vehicle with that trans in it.
Of course it's all heresay. But bring me your 1 person who had a bad Honda tranny and I'll bring you a dozen current and former Honda V6 owners including myself who never had a single problem. My 2003 MDX was fantastic other than the crap that failed after we got rear ended by a Ford Taurus doing about 80mph when he hit us. Hard enough to go under our car, lifting us up over the curb into a guard rail and kept going for another 100ft before bursting into flames. Insurance should have totalled it but we fixed it and drove it till 85k.
The car was never the same after that but the transmission was never an issue.
Also be WARY that the axle and transmission ratios used to achieve 31 MPG are so extreme that Ford doesn't tell you how badly their 0-60 and quarter mile times are affected by said vehicles. The truth is you'll probably average 25 MPG on the highway I'm betting with the version of the car that still has "guts."
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I will admit it is a unique looking car. A friend at work bought one with the turbo 4 and she likes it quite well. I haven't sat in it but the seats look to be nicely bolstered. For some reason (perhaps because my daughter drives a Tiburon) I thought it was front wheel drive. I know the two cars are different beasts.
And I also bemoan the likes of GM. Sooner or later GM might get the hint.....but I doubt it. I'll take a Hyundai any day and sing them praises they deserve.
I'm glad you're enjoying your stay here. That's what buying American means these days. Go for the best not the junk of the past!
It didn't reeally surprise me tho becuase every year I attend the Auto Show curcuit I get a laugh at the quality of a 20 thousand dollar Hyundai and one of the worst paint jobs on the entire floor is a 90 thousand dollar Z06 or it's lesser bretheren. Orange peel city!
Call me crazy, but could this have anything to do at all with the Corvette being fiberglass, and the cars you are comparing it to for paint, not? Since the dawn of history, it's been said it's nearly impossible to get the same-quality paint job on a fiberglass car as a steel-bodied one.
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Yeah, they could get the orange-peel out of fiberglass if they put half an effort to it. IMO, most cars today have gone downhill when it comes to orange peel. I remember one day, on one of those rare occasions that my '79 NY'er was running, I drove it to the liquor store and just happened to park next to a new Honda Accord in a similar midnight blue. Sad to say, but my NY'er, which was born when Chrysler was in one of its darkest hours, had a smoother finish than that Accord.
Seriously though, if Chrysler could get a finish this nice 31 years ago when they were begging for a bail-out the first time around, you'd think most auto makers could do better today. Unless that's one of Chrysler's tricks...right about the time they're about to go bankrupt, they suddenly get serious about good paint quality! :shades:
Seriously though, if Chrysler could get a finish this nice 31 years ago when they were begging for a bail-out the first time around, you'd think most auto makers could do better today.
Well 20 years ago, many of Chrysler's paint jobs peeled faster than a banana. My wife's uncle had a '92 or so Dakota that was down to the primer by '95.
>many of Chrysler's paint jobs peeled faster than a banana.
I wonder if that was some of the better chemistry brought to us by the green folks and EPA? I know that there used to be three layers in a paint system with a primer, then a coat that would adhere to the primer and to which the color coat would strongly adhere. PPG, I believe it was, determined they could use a certain primer and cover it with a color coat and skip one of the bonding layers. Voile. Colors coats that started letting go after some time and temperature and sun aging.
I believe that mistake occured about the period of time you're talking about.
Comments
Really? It's made in Mexico.
I am not aware of a single GM automobile (although some trucks are) that are built in Mexico. The Aveo, their bottom-line econobox, is made overseas but they have advertised it as such. I'm told the next Aveo will be made in Michigan.
So far I'm having a lousy track record with my domestic vehicles. By 60k miles, I've spend over $1k in repairs on my last two.
Of course, GM/Ford/Chrysler import all sorts of foreign cars from Canada.
Wouldn't a three-year old vehicle have been under warranty? I'm sorry you apparently had a crappy vehicle and a crappy dealer. I believe GM is doing more for customers now than ever, but even twenty years ago my dealer (and I've bought from two) would have offered to do something out of warranty if I was over the mileage limit but below the three-year threshold.
Lots of Suburban's and Yukon's are. My Suburban was from Mexico and when I was shopping for a new Suburban/Yukon XL in 08, I couldn't find one made in the US. I have no idea what the percentage of US/Mexico manufactured Suburban are.
And have for decades. I remember looking at Canadian-built Monte Carlos and Monzas, new, in the '70's. They're UAW there.
I do think there's a difference between 'built in Canada' in 'built in Mexico'. And I am not doubting in the least that quality vehicles are built there. But you never saw that happen, pre-NAFTA. I think they are most likely paying third-world wages there. And I would rather not reward the manufacturer for that by buying a model of theirs that is built there.
Same with my 07 Expedition, I was within the 3 year threshold on the 36k mile warranty, but was at 59k when the coil pack died. Granted the coil pack was only like $80, but it was the hours of labor pulling the damn spark plugs that was costly. They offered nothing other than telling me not to let the new plugs stay in for more than 60k miles.
I have to admit, that the idea of the Fusion being built in Mexico just doesn't sit well with me. Even if it's a perfectly fine car. All things being equal, I'd rather buy an Altima made in the United States than a Fusion made in Mexico.
As for all the talk of where the profits go? Well, I guess I could buy some Nissan stock, so that profits would go to ME! :shades:
I'll be seeing him in a few weeks and I am looking forward to taking the Fusion for a spin.
Andre, I'd think just about anything in the Altima category will seem a bit small and definitely more firm. What did you think of the CVT?
Yeah, I think if I had gone right from my Intrepid to something like an Altima, Fusion, or Malibu, there wouldn't have been as much of a shock, but I got used to the Park Ave and it spoiled me a bit. The Intrepid was wide inside...seemed wider to me than the Park Ave, and the back seat seemed like it had more legroom. But the Park Ave's front seat goes back a lot further, sits up higher, and is much better padded.
I didn't get a chance to drive my Mom and stepdad's Altima; only rode in it. And really didn't notice the CVT, one way or another. I actually prefer a transmission that shifts crisply, but that's not what most people think of as "refinement". I should go test drive an Altima though, to see if the CVT is something I'd get used to.
If your 6ft or taller, the Altima rear is going to be really useless for you. I'm 5ft 9in and my head, without wearing a ball cap or having my hair up, was just about touching the rear ceiling!
I don't think there's any meaningful difference betweeen buying a car built in one foreign country versus another. Canada, Japan, Mexico, South Africa, Poland, etc. are all the same to me.
I was in San Francisco yesterday and I saw a yellow painted Ford Fusion taxi.
Whereas I would ask why those first two parts are having problems at under 100K in the first place. No car properly maintained should have transmission problems at under 100K (and yes, I know Honda had transmission issues).
My Acura TL has 96K on it right now and I've done tires, battery, brakes, a piece of door handle trim, and one recall for the outside air temp sensor. That's it.
The 2010 Genesis Coupe is a purpose-built rear-wheel drive sports coupe featuring two performance-focused engines - a 212-horsepower 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine and a range-topping all-aluminum 306-horsepower, DOHC 3.8-liter V6 engine.
Regards,
OW
The problem is the UAW. If you are Ford or GM and you are barely on the edge of existence and your average labor/benefits rate for a US worker is say, $100K/year, and in Mexico it is $25K/year (totally guessing at all of those numbers), then what would you do? If the UAW was willing to turn that $100K into say, $60K then maybe the job stays. But if it does not budge then you move your production out of the country.
Just read an article that the UAW is actually the union where the Boeing C-17 is made in Long Beach, CA. This is the LAST Boeing manufacturing in the state. Well the union is striking for benefits! Their ship is sinking but they want more. Boeing is opening up a 787 manufacturing line in South Carolina to get away from the union influences in Washington. The last union strike cost them $billions.
No company is going to put up with labor acting like that. The company's job is to be profitable. The companies that put up with it (GM) go bankrupt.
It might be more due to a good dealer than GM. I think a lot of times when we bash brands or praise brands regarding service (as opposed to the vehicle itself), we are reacting to a particularly good or particularly bad dealership. Although there are makes that are well known to have good service (Lexus, Cadillac) and poor service (VW).
The reverse of this political move in the 80's to save Harley/Davidson was to slap an high tax on Asian bikes for a 5yr period, since Harley was down to producing only 50,000 bikes/yr..bleeding badly..I know I was selling them cable assemblies, throttle,clutch, and brake produced by a Japanese mfgr located in Battle Creek, Mich, a div of Nippon Cable..100% supplier of all Mercury Marine cables starting in 1981..I left after 2yrs, 1984..From 1985 to 2002 was involved the forging and casting sales to auto, trucking, and military..no sales to Asian car companies..no money in it..
With the Govt involved with GM and Chrysler and being a supplier in this day and age has got to be a real pain, no money in it..
Love the Mustang, and the Shelby GT is still sitting in the showroom waiting for me..It isn't the fastest nor the best handling, probably doesn't really excel in any area, but it's ALL-AMERICAN, loud, and a real bang on the road..Sorry, the Genesis coupe is just too cute..I pass..
Or dealer cost parts and free labor if you run the place
Actually, forget good, it was amazing. Like glass, not a single swirl mark, bit of orange peel or hint of non-uniformity.
It didn't reeally surprise me tho becuase every year I attend the Auto Show curcuit I get a laugh at the quality of a 20 thousand dollar Hyundai and one of the worst paint jobs on the entire floor is a 90 thousand dollar Z06 or it's lesser bretheren. Orange peel city!
Who does the paint jobs in Bowling Green? MAACO? Or does the crew who clean the bathrooms over there multi-tasking.... :P
I'll tell you what really surprised me...at the DC auto show this past winter, I was really impressed with the paint quality on the Dodges and Chryslers! They had seemed to be slipping in the past few years, but this time around they had mirror-smooth finishes that would give a Lexus a run for its money! I know the production models can't be like that, though. I'm wondering if they had specially-prepped vehicles for the show circuit, this time around?
I've also noticed that Benz and BMW don't really have those smooth-as-glass finishes like they used to, while GM and Ford actually do seem to be improving.
Yes. Canadians buy what they build, AND what we build. Mexicans are lucky to afford an old Beetle that's been rebuilt 10 times over.
I grew up a Ford guy and that is one of the only things about Ford products that irked me was their paint quality. Even brand spanking new they had no lustre and were always swirled and chipped.
Seems to me that our CR-V and Pilot required tranny service every 30K miles. But I may be wrong on that.
If true and if your friend missed both of them and the car was at 70K, that could be a reason. It could also be a crooked dealer that got paid by Honda but wanted a little more. Maybe the car was 8-9 years old and Honda figured it was past any responsibility of theirs. Maybe he bought it used and Honda didn't feel any need to absorb the entire bill. And maybe it was exactly as your friend says and maybe the car was just a few years old. I wasn't at the dealer with him, maybe you were.
I do know that my experiences with Nissan and Honda have been great. The experiences I have had driving domestics since 1957 have been mixed as far as reliability goes but when the warranty ran out I always had to dig deep or do it myself. Chevy didn't pay for my son's Suburban Tranny and Ford didn't pay for my mother's Explorer trannys at 60K or at 90k.
Mazda replaced my MPV tranny free, at 51K miles.
In my opinion the domestics tend to ride better and be a bit quieter when new. But the reason I've gotten rid of each domestic is due to reliability and rattles. I got rid of my 03 Pilot because after 7 years of driving it I decided to get a light duty Pickup. Thus the Ridge Line. My wife drove her 95 Maxima for 8 years but developed knee problems and it was hard for her to stoop to get in and out of it, thus the CR-V.
With one exception (see below), we got to where we didn't keep domestics past the 3/36 warranty because it tended to get expensive fast.
FWIW I still have a 1978 Chevy G20 van. I hang on to it because of sentimental reasons. It has become a rattle trap and the engine, tranny, and rear end have all been replaced. Chevy didn't pay for any of those. :lemon:
We got a freebie a few weeks back. Toyota modified the 09 RAV4's gas pedal.
WHOOPEE!
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
My coworker's Honda was bought new and is a 2005 model-year, same as my Chevy van.
Even my service manger friend said stay far away from them, go for the 80.
link title
Even my service manger friend said stay far away from them, go for the 80.
That's an understatement. I know people who've had 3 rebuilds in 100k miles with the 4l60e. I think that trans is worse than the Chrysler trans axle back in the late 80's. I won't own another vehicle with that trans in it.
The car was never the same after that but the transmission was never an issue.
Not sure why your scratchng your head, the Genesis looks great (in person too), and it is RWD performance at a fair price!
Nothing FWD about the Genesis.
That makes sense, the Tiburon was and is a girl's car. I think the Genesis is more of a man's car, though women are free to enjoy it as well.
I don't know one guy that owns a Tiburon.
I'm glad you're enjoying your stay here. That's what buying American means these days. Go for the best not the junk of the past!
Regards,
Call me crazy, but could this have anything to do at all with the Corvette being fiberglass, and the cars you are comparing it to for paint, not? Since the dawn of history, it's been said it's nearly impossible to get the same-quality paint job on a fiberglass car as a steel-bodied one.
Regards,
OW
Here's a pic of it...can't actually link it because it would mess up Edmund's margins.
Seriously though, if Chrysler could get a finish this nice 31 years ago when they were begging for a bail-out the first time around, you'd think most auto makers could do better today. Unless that's one of Chrysler's tricks...right about the time they're about to go bankrupt, they suddenly get serious about good paint quality! :shades:
That's a beautifully we kept car? How often does it get waxed and washed?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well 20 years ago, many of Chrysler's paint jobs peeled faster than a banana. My wife's uncle had a '92 or so Dakota that was down to the primer by '95.
I wonder if that was some of the better chemistry brought to us by the green folks and EPA? I know that there used to be three layers in a paint system with a primer, then a coat that would adhere to the primer and to which the color coat would strongly adhere. PPG, I believe it was, determined they could use a certain primer and cover it with a color coat and skip one of the bonding layers. Voile. Colors coats that started letting go after some time and temperature and sun aging.
I believe that mistake occured about the period of time you're talking about.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,