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Welcome to today when Hyundai is eating GM's lunch. :surprise:
Regards,
OW
This is likely true as some are happy with the present administration!
I think they already MAKE GM vehicles. Aren't Buicks produced in China by Chinese labor?
Not Toyota or Honda. :P
I think so, I was just commenting on rival chinese companies copying GM designs. I believe GM vehicles built and sold in China are through partnerships.
Not here they aren't. ONLY for sale in China.
"Dissing Big3 cars" certainly gets rid of all that pent-up emotion and this forum is "rehab" for the Asian car owners. So let's thank the people at Edmunds for allowing this exercise to relieve the tensions or maybe "guilt" of the owners opting to buy cars from Asian corporations..
Remember, I am not one of you, for my selection has been 51 Big3 offerings to date, and two Porsches when I was young and carefree some 52 yrs ago..by the way the 58 and 59 Porsches were totally troublefree, and the cost in Germany ,new was $2795.00...My 2 offshore purchases..no more..
While that may be true, honestly, unless I'm there, I don't want to find out.
Not sure whether we need the rehab or you need the rehab! :shades:
Almost fell out of my chair, lol. Reminds me of Mork! Keep up the good work, guys.
By the way, how about that new Ford Explorer teaser? I wish them the best! I do believe my next auto will be a Ford. Haven't purchased a domestic since my '98 Trans Am.
By the way, how about that new Ford Explorer teaser? I wish them the best! I do believe my next auto will be a Ford. Haven't purchased a domestic since my '98 Trans Am.
If I were to buy a new vehicle today, it probably would be a Ford too. My current 07 Expedition which I did pick up used a few years ago, has been my first Ford in a while. I have had a few issues with it, but the build quality and refinement overall is 10x better than the Suburban I had prior. I respect how Ford has improved their product. Sure Lincoln still has a way to go, but I've never really aspired for a Lincoln, so I don't really care about the brand.
The fusion was the only American product at the NY Auto Show last month, that not only had supportive comfortable seats for my super super sensitive back (3 back surgeries mind you) but felt had quality and fit/finish similar to several of their competitors. It's the only American product I'll cross shop the next time around with the Korean, Japanese, and German competition!
Good for Ford!!! :shades: and they didn't have to do it by taking all our hard earn tax dollars in bailouts and bankruptcy like two other companies that will remain nameless
If you want to see how a 2010 Buick would look today if GM still had nearly 50% market share and Ford and Chrysler were their main competitors, look no further than the RV industry.
We just purchased our second travel trailer a month ago. We looked at just about everything with a wide range of prices. They are all built like crap. Nothing lines up, on brand new units out of the factory, doors don't close properly, trim is wavy, fit n finish is horrid (like detroit cars in the 70's). One thing they all have in common is....they are made in the USA.
Our trailer has already had a few issues. Had a major plumbing water leak and I've had to adjust all of the doors to get them to close properly. It's sad to see how little pride is taken in putting out a quality product, but since nobody in the industry does, they don't have to.
My brother just bought a new Fusion Sport fairly well loaded with 3.5 v6 etc. This is his first domestic car EVER. He's mainly bought Nissan's. Most recently being an 06 maxima and an 08 Altima. He looked hard at the Malibu, but he told me in his opinion it felt and seemed cheap to him. He seems to really like the Fusion so far, he told me it reminds him of his Maxima in terms of refinement and performance. Plus he absolutely loves sync. He lives a few hours from me, but he's visiting in a few weeks, so I'm definitely going to take it for a spin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba2XdrS7DzA
I feel terrible for most of you have missed the great cars built in this country before the Government got their nose in the fray..Of course we know how well the Feds are at screwing up a simple task..Some administrations do it unknowingly, and others do it on purpose to satisfy their base..We are in the latter phase..
Hold on, for the "Smart for Two" may look like a limo..Don't worry for we will have "High Speed Rail" for our lovely vacation ventures..
GM and Chrysler really don't have chance to grow. Fiat is a joke, they are broke so your taxes are keeping Chrysler alive..The lone Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep dealer in Venice sales are off 40% from a year ago, when they were Jeep only!!!
News Flash!! GM and Chrysler's problems started long before the Government had to get involved. For God sake, Ford saw that they had problems and began planning several years in advance before the recession hit and are thus years ahead and doing better than GM and Chrysler
GM and Chrysler never really admitted or identified their problems until well after the recession had hit, and used the recession as an excuse as to the cause of all their problems! Nice way to shift the true blame. By the time they tried to do something it was too late, the recession was in full swing and they were not making a profit and were basically being beaten from every angle and thus needed our money to stay a float, and then it still wasn't enough, and then had to declare bankruptcy.
I will give credit that GM has shown some signs of improvement but they have a really long way to go, at least for me. Chrysler should just burn in hell for all I care!
That's fine. They can fan the flames for Daimler when they get there.
Nah! I want to fan the flames in the direction of the people who thought the FIRST Chrysler bailout a few decades ago was a good idea. The people in charge who let that first bailout scam of Chrysler happen deserve to be hung from a tree and burned from below.
If they hadn't made such a poor decision then, there would be no disastrous bankrupt bailout consuming Chrysler today. And furthermore, I might not hate the Big 3 for what Chysler sold me in the mid-Nineties!
Hi motorcity, I would actually really consider a Ford right now. Not a GM or C, though.
I feel terrible for most of you have missed the great cars built in this country before the Government got their nose in the fray..Of course we know how well the Feds are at screwing up a simple task..Some administrations do it unknowingly, and others do it on purpose to satisfy their base..We are in the latter phase..
So are you saying the government should NOT have gotten its nose into the car business? You know that they are the only reason C and GM are still around.
GM and Chrysler really don't have chance to grow.
They are alive, though. I guess the government screwed that up!
Do you believe that company who made 40 years of poor business decisions should be artificially propped up?
I feel terrible for most of you have missed the great cars built in this country before the Government got their nose in the fray.."
Gotta agree with the first statement. Ford does seem to have the edge on GM, Chrysler, and many of the foreign makes, quality wise. Also there is a lot to be said, in a positive way, of how they have begun to turn themselves around without the government or tax payer involvement. Worth a look the next time we purchase.
In 1957, at 16 years of age, my first car was a 39 Ford coupe. Then a 49 Ford Sedan, a 52 Chevy, 55 Plymouth convertible and so on. Back then we pretty much worked on our own cars. And they needed a lot of work to keep them running.
Junk yards (salvage yards) were booming as a source for parts and pieces.
At the time, the Detroit quality was superior to stuff coming here from England, and Italy. Germany was sending us some interesting cars that performed well, but required a lot of maintenance. The VW beetle was an exception. It was fairly reliable but a poor performer.
Got married in '61 and didn't have time to work on cars, so a good mechanic became the order of the day. Over the decades there have been near 70 cars adorning our driveway. Most were bought new. The great majority of them were GM products with an occational Ford and Chrysler mixed it. The most fun car, for it's time, was a 64 GTO bought new for $3250. But in all honesty I don't remember ever having a great car until the '95 Maxima. It performed extremely well, and never saw a mechanic except for routine scheduled service.
Compared to todays offerings, the 80s and 90s Detroit cars were extremely unreliable and pathetic performers. The 60s and 70s cars worked fairly well.
But with few exceptions, most gave way to much trouble, and handled horribly.
Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, and the art that went into shaping the exterior of the Detroit Iron was admirable. Back then we could tell what make of car it was and the year of manufacture without having to look for the name plate, like we do today.
Great is in the eye of the beholder!
Kip
I've had mostly GM cars, a few Fords products, and one Chrysler. The one Chrysler, a 1985 Fifth Avenue, turned out to be one of my best cars. My first car was a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
So glad we have US made vehicles! :P :shades:
Regards,
OW
What... GM and Ford have built so many cheap undesirable appliance type cars over the past 20+ I don't have enough fingers and toes to count them with.
That's why I buy domestic vehicles used. I get them cheap and I don't give a rats [non-permissible content removed] about them. They are disposable cheap appliances.
Well, I've always had a soft spot for Mustangs. The new 5.0 GT is sweet. I have nothing against the Genesis coupe, I heard one take off the other day and it definitely has an impressive exhaust note, didn't look bad either.
Those aren't really comparable cars. If you favor soft and quiet, then Buick or Lexus is probably your type of car (like Lemko likes). If you favor sporty and not as quiet, then you would like Mazda/Honda/Fusion/Acura type vehicles.
We were on fairly rough back roads with speeds up to 65 or so. The car was extremely quiet inside with almost no road noise what so ever. It soaked up bad parts of the road with no effort and the seats were comfortable and supportive.
At slower speeds it cornered well, but there was very little feed back to the steering wheel as to what the road and tires were doing. At speeds I would take the curves in my Ridgeline or Pilot, the Town Car tended to float toward the outside of the turn. (And the 2 Honda's are by no means good on corners as compared to most modern sedans) The Town Car was just worse than them at cornering but rode a lot softer and quieter.
Pretty sure it had the small V8 as acceleration was somewhat sluggish, but willing. The hood was very long and made pulling forward into a parking space something that would take some getting use to. Although it did turn sharper that I expected. The uncle said it would deliver 26-28 MPG on the road with 2 people at 65-70 mph.
All-n-all it was a pleasant driving experience, and would likely be great for cross country excursions. But not so good as a daily driver for most folks, due to it's size and handling. Didn't ask about reliability.
Our budget steers us toward Honda, Ford, Nissan, Chevy, Toyota, Dodge.... Not the higher end luxury offerings of those manufacturers.
Don't even know why I wrote this. Just seemed like the right thing to do today.
Kip
Toyota is poised to take a serious lead in EV's and hybrids in the coming future IMO.
No one would say an Uplander is tops-in-class or anything, but I will say this. I recently got a trans pressure control solenoid replaced, leaky steering rack replaced, and horn fixed...all as a free goodwill repair...and at 79K miles, w/o any extended warranty ever purchased by me.
On the contrary, a coworker's same-year Honda Odyssey needed a complete trans at 70K miles. Honda 'helped'--but he stil had to pay $1,800 out-of-pocket.
I have less out-of-pocket repairs on a Chevy Uplander than a similar-mileage Honda Odyssey. Bet you won't see that in Consumer Reports or Car and Driver.
Bill
I imagine I would save a ton of money on car care products and insurance if I bought some cheap import too! They pretty much are nothing but soulless transportation appliances anyway. I don't spend hours washing and detailing my washing machine or refrigerator , so why would I waste my time and money on my soulless imported transportation appliance? If my soulless imported transportation appliance got smashed or scratched, I wouldn't spend thousands of dollars just to put it right, but do the minimum necessary to make it functional or just let it go. No need for full-coverage. A can of Krylon and some duct tape would be enough to fix my soulless imported transportation appliance. Heck, fuel would be cheap too! No more Sunoco Ultra! Shady Al's "near-gasoline" which is a 50/50 mixture of kerosene and water with rocks, sticks, and bugs in it would be good enough for my soulless imported transportation appliance.
Was this the newer-style 2010 Fusion, or a 2009 or older? My experience with the 2010 has been limited to driving one around a test course. I liked it, but it was also a well-equipped V-6 model. I've heard that the 2010 is vastly improved over the older models, but I wonder if they still cheap out on the basic models?
Based on my limited experience, which is mainly just sitting in them and looking at them, I like the Fusion a bit better than the Malibu. I wouldn't rule out a Malibu, though; I'd at least give both a thorough checking out before making a decision. However, after getting adjusted to my sofa-on-wheels Park Ave Ultra, I'd probably end up not liking either!
Honda put a 100K extended warranty on 2 or 3 year models of all Odysseys because of some problems some were having. There was no recall, but those that did have problems got it fixed free. It is entirely possible that your friend didn't get the tranny serviced as required or it was shown to be low on fluid or he was towing excessive weight etc...When my son's Suburban blew the tranny at around 60K, Chevy didn't pay a dime of the $3500 repair bill and he worked for a Chevy dealer at the time.
It is also possible that some of the repairs on your Uplander were recall items that would be fixed if there was a problem with them. But it wasn't a general recall to where you were required to bring it in, just because. Same as the Honda tranny thing above.
Honda replaced my wife's entire AC system free of charge when the compressor self destructed and the car out of basic warranty. The bill would have been around $3K according to the service writer. They even replaced the hoses, free, which are considered wear items. I had originally thought the EW covered it, but when I didn't have to pay the $50 EW deductible, the Service writer said the repair was covered by Honda.
Kip
On the contrary, a coworker's same-year Honda Odyssey needed a complete trans at 70K miles. Honda 'helped'--but he stil had to pay $1,800 out-of-pocket.
If GM would have treated me like that I might have stayed a customer too. But the last GM product I purchased cost me thousands between 46k-75k miles. Transmission, a/c compressor, fuel pump, pitman arm etc (not to mentioned all of the electrical issues I lived with) equaled about $4k in repairs on a 3 year old vehicle. No good will from GM except for thanks for your open wallet. About the closest thing to an apology I received from the dealer was, "we see this problem a lot".
I keep up on TSB's, and am always looking at the 'net for discussions of 'free warranties', etc. The free repairs just happened last month for me. My coworker claims he never had service done anyplace else besides the Honda dealer, and he doesn't tow. His trans should not have required regular maintenance at 70K when it blew up. He said his Service Manager said that's all Honda would do for him (paying the rest except for $1,800) and that that should be enough for him to buy another Honda next time. This happened within the past year. The Service Manager acted like he was doing him a big favor.
These are not excuses or 'might haves'...it is what happened. Chevrolet treated me better than Honda treated him...and above the dealership level.