Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

gagrice

Doesn't Ford build a nice little hatch?

andres3

And you forgot 10) Americans don't buy hatchbacks.

Then I must not be American????

Oh wait, Audi calls it a Sportback. Guess a Crossover isn't a wagon if you call it an Avant?

bpizzuti

Yep, they're the only American manufacturer still doing so. They're also the only American manufacturer that didn't need a bailout. :shades:

lemko

I'm not laughing and what's so sad about it? These cars have faithfully served me for years and asked little in return! I need not look elsewhere than GM for all my automotive wants and needs!

lemko

Shoot, I'd rather have an import than anything in Ford's lineup nowadays, that's how low my opinion of them is. They had three vehicles on my car-shopping A-list until recently - the Crown Vic, the Grand Marquis, and the Lincoln Town Car. Looks like it's only GM and Chrysler for me until Ford gets its act together.

anythngbutgm

Maybe I am making some assumptions here, but when you say "Looks like it's only GM and Chrysler for me until Ford gets its act together" are you referring to the lack of rear wheel drive, big car options at Ford?

Because I know Chrysler has the 300 and Charger, but what other Chryslers would be on your list?

Also, to get the big RWD car at GM, you either have to be on the Police Force to get an SS or you need to go used and find an STS :confuse:

But you also drive a FWD Deville so maybe you just want a big car and don't really care if it's a Rear Driver or not. For that I would suggest the Taurus which is a big car, and IMO as comfortable and as cushy of a cruiser as a Cadillac (Say that 3 times fast! )

ateixeira

Here's a video of Bush (not Obama) announcing it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N5kRVfmMoE

I laugh when I see cartoons with the wrong President...

Edit: watch closely, he says "my administration worked closely with the automakers..."

bpizzuti

So you don't like Ford because of their 20+ year old vehicles? :shades:

bpizzuti

Maybe he needs to start shopping Mack?

andre1969

For that I would suggest the Taurus which is a big car, and IMO as comfortable and as cushy of a cruiser as a Cadillac

I've sat in the Taurus, and its Lincoln MK-whatever variant, and I'm not all that impressed. The Taurus is supposed to be a "big" car, but the inside just doesn't feel like it to me. It does have a big trunk; I'll give it that. But inside, it has a claustrophobic feel. Legroom's okay, but the footwells aren't all that wide. The seats are kind of narrow, and the center console is too big and high. The Lincoln variant feels a bit bigger inside (I think it has a longer wheelbase and a bit more legroom in back), but it just doesn't feel "big".

Personally, I'd take a Taurus over an Impala, but I'd take a Charger/300 over either. When it comes to midsized cars though, I think the current Fusion is pretty decent. And the upcoming one looks good.

I'd say that overall Ford is very competent these days. It's just that they don't build what Lemko wants them to build!

dieselone

I agree 100% with Andre regarding the Taurus. It's way to cramped for how large it is. It's only like 4" shorter than my Expedition.

andre1969

The Taurus reminds me of how cars used to be built in the mid 70's..how they'd be big and impressive on the outside, but not all that roomy inside. But, at least cars of the 70's had an excuse...they were low-slung, often had long hoods and correspondingly smaller passenger cabins, and sloped-off rear-ends. The Taurus is tall and upright, so I dunno what its excuse is!

Unless you need a big trunk or just prefer the additional bulk surrounding you, I really don't see much reason to get a Taurus over a Fusion (2012 Fusion...I dunno what the 2013 will be like). At least in the old days, a Crown Vic was a lot more car than a Taurus or the old, small LTD. In its later years the 500 actually gave it a run for its money...bigger trunk, more legroom in the back seat, etc, although the Crown Vic still had the advantage of being able to tow more, and that body-on-frame construction and longer wheelbase might have given it a better ride.

IMO, GM has been building cars like this for awhile now. When the 1997 Malibu came out, it seemed like a better car in every respect than the larger Lumina. It had less shoulder room, but seemed to have a lot more legroom, and similar trunk space. And, when the Impala came out, it just didn't seem to make sense, unless you simply preferred more bulk, and needed a bigger trunk.

berri

I've found that Ford models often seem short on legroom for tall drivers. The brand new Escape is a recent example, as is the Taurus. I think they design and build to the average 5'10" driver, but unfortunately, if you look around the younger people just keep getting taller (and that includes females). I think this is one of the dangers in using means and medians in statistical analysis without properly considering dispersion and available qualitative data.

stever

An older neighbor just got a new Taurus. She's maybe 4'2" tall. Around here everyone mostly peers through their steering wheel as it is.

fintail

Last time I rented National at a place where I could choose my car, I sat in a Taurus. The console in the thing seems a mile wide, kills front area interior room and makes it feel cramped. Odd design. I ended up choosing a Regal.

anythngbutgm

2013 Honda Accord Production Begins in Ohio, Marks 30 Years of U.S. Manufacturing

anythngbutgm

Nah. Kenworth :P

Those Grand marquis and Crown Vics were built on truck chassis anyways! lol

anythngbutgm

I agree as well with your assessment of the Taurus. I guess my recommendation was based more on the girth and the wheelbase which provides a smoother, more cushy ride.

Shoot, I would go with the Avalon or the new Azera, or even a new Maxima but I know Lemko has sworn off imports...

andre1969

I totally forgot about the Azera. Haven't paid attention to the new one yet, but I always thought the current/previous one was pretty nice. The Avalon's a pretty nice car inside, but alas, has never been much of a looker. And I think they're going a bit garish for 2013!

Gotta admit, I like the current Maxima, myself.

lemko

The Taurus is a midsize car by my standards. I don't like that huge console that takes up a lot of room in the front seat and almost comes up to one's shoulders.

dieselone

My wife loves her Taurus as she finds it comfortable and feels safe in it. But she's 6" shorter and 70lbs lighter than I am. I find the interior way to tight.

Like Fintail mentioned, the center console is a disaster. It seems some designer at Ford was dared to make the biggest console possible with the smallest amount of storage space.

My wife had a 500 and while the styling was boring, it was a more comfortable car overall IMO, it certainly felt like it had a lot more room.

Overall, I'm disappointed with the Taurus. It's certainly not a bad car, but it really doesn't stand out and it certainly doesn't have a premium feel. It just kind of feels like a large cheap car. Granted my wife's is a base SE model, so I don't know if my opinion would change with a higher end model or not.

I certainly would choose a 300 over it.

lemko

To get what I want in a car from an import, I'd have to go way upscale - like a BMW 7-Series, Mercedes S-Class, or Lexus LS. I might settle for an E-Class. I'm not reckless and self-destructive enough to consider an Audi A8 no matter how nice or well-built it seems. The Hyundai Genesis and Equus are far too ugly.

The Toyota Avalon was about the most affordable choice, but they completely ruined it for 2013 with that vomit-inducing big mouth bass grille!

dieselone

The Toyota Avalon was about the most affordable choice, but they completely ruined it for 2013 with that vomit-inducing big mouth bass grille!

My neighbor recently traded in his Lucerne in on a new Avalon. I haven't gotten a good look at it yet, as I've only seen it parked in the garage.

lemko

He must've had it parked nose end in. The front is scary. The last Avalon may have been dull and conventional, but at least it was pleasant enough to look at.

dieselone

Gotta admit, I like the current Maxima, myself.

I didn't care for it when if first came out, but it's grown on me.

dieselone

He must've had it parked nose end in.

Yeah, I haven't seen the krill catcher yet;) Actually, since I've only seen it from the back end, and he's had it about a month. I'm guessing it's not the new 2013 model, but a 2012.

ateixeira

Genesis is so conservative, you really find it ugly?

lemko

Looks like a last generation E-Class that was left in the microwave too long with its melted front end.

fintail

It's a warmed over E60 5er. Which is better than the parallel universe LS that is the Equus.

andre1969

I don't mind the Genesis, although I agree the grille is a bit of a sore point. To me it seems a bit truck-ish and heavy-handed. Makes me think of an old '50's GMC, or maybe a big Diamond-T rig, force fitted onto a car. Doesn't totally turn me off to the car, though.

And honestly, I could probably find something I don't like about ANY car, given enough time and imagination. :P

ateixeira

Chery and Great Wall were caught still using the stuff in their cars:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-15/australia-recalls-23-000-chinese-made-c- ars-over-asbestos.html

I'd say unbelievable, but the worst part is, it's not surprising.

fintail

Yes, I am shocked. I would expect the epitome of safety and careful production from any car made there.

gagrice

Australia is fairly protective of their workforce. I wonder if this was some sort of trade-off with Australian natural resources going to China. If it were not for the UAW we would have Chinese made cars being sold here already. Probably happen when China buys GM from the US Government.

fintail

So maybe then the UAW is only 95% evil :shades:

As our "most favored" trading "partner", there will be a push no matter what GM does. Some partnership eh?

gagrice

They will take it in steps. The Volt will be the first Chinese import probably within a year. Government motors know they cannot make a profit manufacturing them here. China now owns the battery manufacturer. That is the most expensive component.

ateixeira

So each sale adds $7500 to our deficit to subsidize battery production in China, basically. :sick:

fintail

I wonder if the greenies/eco weenies etc will react positively to knowing the product is made by the grand environmental criminal.

gagrice

Yes we are sending a portion of $7500 to a foreign country for every Volt sold and the whole $7500 for every Nissan Leaf and other various high priced foreign made EVs. If you are in CA, they kick in an additional $5 grand. In the case of Fisker and Tesla we gave them $Millions more to set up foreign plants.

The Eco Nuts and Greenies have the Utopian picture of US making electric vehicles that will be charged with Solar panels and in the process never pollute the USA. And there is a smaller segment like our friend Rocky that thinks we can build all the green stuff without any natural resources being mined in the USA. If they are it would not be in a dirty fashion. My favorite, a nice clean mine that looks like a hospital shiny and white.
They even have a candidate, Jill Stein.... Nice lady, but

stever

I'm waiting for them to pipe seawater into the factory, extract the minerals and build up steel or platinum or whatever by running it through the inkjets on a 3D printer. Should help offset the rising sea level by the icepack melting too.

Meanwhile, the Detroit News weighs the impact of Ford's leaving the compact truck market.

"Edmunds.com found that nearly 29 percent of Ranger owners who purchased new vehicles between January and June opted for a later-model Ranger or an F-150.

The Toyota Tacoma, another compact pickup, is still top of mind for Ranger owners. More than 40 percent who researched on Edmunds.com have cross-shopped a Tacoma, twice as many as who cross-shopped an F-150, Edmunds.com said."

Jilted Ranger loyalists deserting Ford for rival automakers

berri

Ford may have faired better than GM, but they aren't rocket scientists either. Just look at Synch and My Touch. They are not kicking the Asians' butt in quality while they keep hiking prices. We better hope all these save the company eco boost turbos don't end up like Synch...and they need to get some six footers in their design and development department.

andres3

Perhaps Obama will offer Ford about $60 billion in funds to help lower those rising prices and even the score with GM and Chrysler (and level the playing field).

I wonder how GM and Chrysler would feel about Ford getting a free 60 billion dollars today!

gagrice

I think Ford made a GIGANTIC mistake not bringing their new Ranger T6 to the USA. With both diesel options. I dumped my gutless V6 Ranger for a Nissan Frontier. So much better truck. Though not much better mileage. I get about 17 the last few months. The Nissan is superior in most every way to the Tacoma. They just have a long history here. Nissan went through some poor times. I know my 1976 Datsun PU was not that great. My 1970 was a jewel.

lemko

China: the country where they actually have a purple river!

gagrice

Good reason not to buy any fish or seafood from China, Vietnam or Indonesia.

mikefm58

I drive an 08 Ranger, and was surprised when Ford cancelled the Ranger without a replacement. When I get around to replacing it, I'll be looking at the Tacoma or Frontier. Everything else in the market comes up woefully inadequate IMHO.

I'm really hoping Ford does an about face and reintroduces a small to mid size truck.

gagrice

The sad part is the Ford T6 is probably the World class leader in the field. And a better looking truck than the competition. All I can think is protection of the F150 and unloading more UAW workers by closing the Ranger plant.

stever

It's "only" been 43 years since the Cuyahoga River caught on fire (for the 13th and last time over a 100 year period) in Ohio.

Hopefully the Chinese won't take as long to clean up their act.

Whatever that purple stuff is, it's probably marketable as a byproduct.

ateixeira

Man, that is MESSED UP!

fezo

Cuyahoga River

fintail

But did the tech or social demand exist for a better environmental condition 43+ years ago?

It does now, but the Chinese continue to be criminals in that realm. Purple water and an asbestos-filled car. Must be a cultural difference.