principle, I may not agree with him (her?) in my actual purchases...reading his posts, cannon seems to be advocating to "buy American" regardless of the quality of the product, taking the position that we should worry about our neighbor's job and keeping that job in America...this sounds good on paper, but cannon seem to be letting our neighbor off the hook by letting him manufacture junk but he should keep his job (and we should buy his crappy product) simply to keep his job here...
cannon needs to place some responsibility on our neighbor so our neighbor makes the best product and instill the desire in me to buy it...if my American product (actually, "American" product may be improper, the better way may be to say "American union-made product" or "American non-union-made product") is an inferior product, I cannot see why cannon wants me to buy it JUST to keep my neighbor's job here when my neighbor does not care about the quality of the product he makes...
Why place all the responsibility on me to buy American junk, just because it is American???...all cannon does is raise my cost of living, because if I have to buy more inferior American products, over time more of my disposable income is used to buy American than an import, which may last longer...if the import is better, why isn't my neighbor trying to make a better product, instead of striking for higher wages to make even more junk???
A better import product SHOULD stimulate our manufacturers to make an even better American product, so I would not think of buying the import...cannon, in essence, supports making inferior American products, simply because he would buy the American product, regardless of the quality of the product...cannon, if you have that much disposable income that you can afford to buy junk, and keep replacing it at higher cost and more often, feel free to do so...but please don't subject me to your logic and force me to spend my money on a bad product, just because my neighbor makes it...start jumping down the throat of my neighbor and ask him WHY he makes junk, instead of protecting his job by guaranteeing you will buy his product regardless of whether it works or not...you have guaranteed his job while forcing me to work harder to buy his junk product and all the replacements in the future, when a quality import may only have to be bought once, and it may last many years, saving me the cost of constant replacements...
I'd rather buy a product because of it's quality and not quantity. America needs to step up and meet import competition. To buy a product solely on its manufacture origin is flat out stupid. This is why I prefer Lexus over anything from GM. GM is unreliable garbage that depreciates quickly.
And don't forget, real Americans buy crap cars so their neighbors can afford new boats! :shades:
Us import drivers are simply commie pinkos undermining the Great American Dream. BMW owners are of course exempted from this, as half of the GM employees have the roundel hiding behind their closed garage door.
I am big on buying American when possible. The product has to be as good as or better than the foreign offering. I don't even mind paying a little more to help out my neighbor. But right today, there are NO domestic branded vehicles I would consider. The only auto companies that currently appeal to me are German. And my first choice is assembled here so that helps an American put bread on the table. The Toyota Avalon has the highest US content for 2012.
If the Focus was a LITTLE bit better (little bigger gas tank, little more thought in the DCT) then I'd consider getting one. If they'd left the hatch on the Dodge Dart, I'd consider getting one. However, both of them fall short compared to the Mazda3 and Subie Impreza.
The Toyota Avalon has the highest US content for 2012.
That's obviously a good thing, but I will never forget the 'deer in the headlights' expression of Toyota's head of North American Operations, when asked at congressional hearings about how Toyota handles recalls. He let it be known, pretty clearly, that Mr. Toyoda and the Japanese still run that company.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Really? What about my 1989 Cadillac Brougham that still looks and runs like a brand-new car or my 1988 Buick Park Avenue, or my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe that was still running in 1992. My wife's 2005 Buick LaCrosse has yet to experience an unscheduled maintenance event nor has my 2007 Cadillac DTS.
I was not sad to see the Toyota bunch knocked around for their arrogance. Keeping with the subject, is it better to buy a 75% US content Lexus RX350 or a 26% Cadillac SRX? Which feeds the most US workers? Time to rethink this whole GM is American fallacy. They are in debt to US for about $42 billion and cutting jobs every model year. In 2009 the Caddy SRX was 70% US content, now only 26% US content. Does not sound like a company interested in America and its people.
Gagrice, I'll take your numbers at your word, but they are not typical for GM or foreign makers. The U.S.-built Sonic replaced the Korean-built Aveo, and the N.A. content of the Cruze has increased since its introduction here. It's a 'big picture' thing.
I know that as recent as 2011, Malibu transmissions were manufactured in Mexico, but are now manufactured in the U.S.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
The Cruze did increase US Content from 45% in 2011 to 60% in 2012. Cruze had a good month in August. It has a ways to go to outsell the Focus this year. And the Cruze is down 8% vs last year.
What is the count between the Cruze and Focus for fleet sales this year?
What is the count between the Cruze and Focus for fleet sales this year?
IIRC I read somewhere it's in the 20-30% range. The Focus is probably towards 30%. In July the Cruze had virtually zero fleet sales, thus it was a bad month. I'd guess the August sales jump had a healthy fleet percentage.
Take out fleet sales and the Civic is by far the sales leader.
Just reading an article on what people drive in our capitol. I would think they should be the leaders in buying American. They are far from it.
“I saw more Porsches than Chevrolet Cruzes,” he sadly noted.
It does seem that a lot of Washington‘s manifest sense of “We’re special” is reflected in vehicle choices: Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Lexus, plus a plethora of minor players, dominate the scene. Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick or Chrysler and other worthy US brands are rare sights indeed.
The important thing is that the people telling us "we need to give your money to GM and Chrysler" are unwilling to give their money to GM and Chrysler.
It's amazing how generous people can be with other people's money.
So what do the people telling us "we need to give your money to GM and Chrysler" are unwilling to give their money to GM and Chrysler drive?
Most likely government issued Tahoes.
Keep in mind that the vast majority of those driving imports around DC are not the ones giving government money to GM and Chrysler. You make it sound like every Prius owner in DC is a member of Congress.
The GOVERNMENT buys Tahoes. But the LAWMAKERS buy IMPORTS.
Right you are. But your original comment on the article made it seem that all the import owners in DC had a hand in the bailouts.
Then again, I just reread your original post. It had nothing to do with the article at all. I should have just taken it for the political jab that it was.
Actually, many of the cars driven by congressfolk may be paid for by us US taxpayers as part of their "job" spending accounts.
Gotta love the lack of intellect in posts. One Prius owner bragged how clean his Prius is. The response was pretty good!:
"Actually DC John .your car doesn’t pollute less. The nickel for the battery in your Prius is mined in Canada, then it is shipped on a massive carrier which uses a bunch of petrol to Europe, there it is sent to China and witchcraft is applied to it, then that product is sent to Japan were it is converted to be used as the electric motor of your Prius, then your Prius is sent to the US. Range Rovers are actually substantially less polluting that a Prius. Wizards do not summon up Prius’es. The materials to make them come from all over the world. The ‘Prius effect’ is inconsequential in truth. It does get good MPG though. Although if you live in Colorado, folks are better off buying a deisel since the Prius is always using the gas motoring to cope with the elevation changes of just a daily drive. When the gas motor is the predominant engine being used in the Prius the mileage is actually poor. But since you live in DC, I sort of doubt those are issues that you run into on a daily basis."
Right you are. But your original comment on the article made it seem that all the import owners in DC had a hand in the bailouts.
Then again, I just reread your original post. It had nothing to do with the article at all. I should have just taken it for the political jab that it was.
If you'd read the original article, the point is that all of the people running around DC, including the LAWMAKERS and LOBBYISTS, are driving around in imports. I made the further point that these same people decided that the domestic automakers needed to be bailed out with OUR money, but said automakers were apparently not worthy of their business.
If you don't like that point, too bad. Go call your Congressman, don't whine at me.
The point was made by Lutz though, and he cited nothing to back up his eyeball view of DC. Wiki says he owns a Czech jet and a bunch of BMW motorcycles, so he's one to whine eh?
"Prior to working at Ford he served as Executive Vice President of sales at BMW for three years, and he takes some credit in the development of the BMW 3-Series. He joined BMW after eight years with GM in Europe." (Wikipedia)
Also worked for Chrysler, Exide and some vacuum cleaner company.
About ramping up Mexico production, all I have to say is 'ugh'.
I was planning on going to Mexico this summer with some friends, but then one of them started freaking out, because of all the drug and gang violence, so we canned that trip.
So, it looks like Aruba again this year, where people do disappear from time to time, but I'm convinced that it's because they mix scuba diving and snorkeling with open bars on the boats! :surprise:
Last year, I saw a '56 DeSoto Fireflite in Aruba. I wonder what kind of nightmare it must be to keep something like that running down there? Looked like it was in really nice shape. too.
What's to politicize? I think we've got two crappy candidates to choose from. Just gonna have to hold your nose because either way it's gonna probably be four more lousy years. Personally, can't see how any one can be that big on either one of these guys (even with all that ad money which sadly could be used for better purposes in helping America). Neither seems a leader. Then there's the losers in both parties running Congress. Maybe Canada can annex us!
I will turn 91 in 2025, so it's really not a big concern, however you youngsters on this forum will pay the price along with my grandchildren.. The current high gas pricing is being ignored by the media for an election is pending and we should not blame the libs for the gouging..Find a tropical storm or the switch over to "winter blend/refining problems" for the increase..
Issac or Debbie the recent weather upheavals to affect Fla and the Gulf region were minor and left some rain, but nothing to screw up the price..I live in SW Fla, just another cloud-burst to support the "green jobs" of mowing..
To support our American economy in the future with new manufacturing jobs is slim to no-way..Buy a liquor store or a tavern to help the public handle the boredom..You will rake in the money and provide a public service.. Booze and your electronic gadgets should help one through the day, and your monthly or weekly govt check will help calm your nerves..
We have 2 options for Nov 6th, one will make you bend over and the other one will force you to grab your ankles.. Great choice????
I have enjoyed the American auto industry and made a few bucks from my involvement on the manufacturing side and the sales/marketing end..The 14 yrs prior to 2002 were the best ones as a self-employed commissioned rep..only mistake, I quit too early, but family illness took precedence..
Most of the auto jobs in the USA are assembly operations of components received from some offshore manufacturer due to our stringent federal, state and local laws making it impossible to physically create a part..however we can assemble these foreign produced parts..Our govt gladly stands in the way of our manufacturing to comply with their eco-friend's requests donating to their campaign coffers.
I will continue to purchase an American named Detroit-based automobile except GM or Chrysler..so I am down to Mustang, Taurus or Fusion Sport..The Fusion would have to be a 2012 model for the V-6 is gone in 2013 lineup.
After owning 34 GM cars and 3 Chrysler out of the 53 total, Ford was an early favorite, however, they haven't been on my list for years..now they are tops..I realize Fusion is assembled in Hermosillo, Mexico, however back in 50s I spent alot time in Mexico.. Nogales and Guaymas primarily, great places back then.. Party time and lots of bullfights..Was going to school in Tucson, long way from Indiana..
I should have stopped and gotten a picture of the HOnda on fire on I-70 west of Columbus a few weeks back. I could have posted it in the Honda discussions. ROFLAMO
Good news - they're moving production to their Flat Rock plant, though that won't happen for the first year model.
That's good to hear. The whole Hecho en Mehico thing was, to me at least, the biggest deterrent to the Fusion. I always found the car to be pleasant enough overall, but would just have preferred a higher US content. The Fusion was usually around 35% US content, whereas the Altima, another midsize that I like about the same, was usually around 65%, and assembled in the US.
So if I liked the two cars equally otherwise, the content would have been enough to sway me in favor of the Altima.
Really? What about my 1989 Cadillac Brougham that still looks and runs like a brand-new car or my 1988 Buick Park Avenue, or my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe that was still running in 1992. My wife's 2005 Buick LaCrosse has yet to experience an unscheduled maintenance event nor has my 2007 Cadillac DTS.
That only answers half of French's concerns. He had concerns about depreciation as well. If I were to rear-end you at 55 MPH in a Hummer H1, how much would your precious GM's be worth then to my insurance company? :P
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Comments
cannon needs to place some responsibility on our neighbor so our neighbor makes the best product and instill the desire in me to buy it...if my American product (actually, "American" product may be improper, the better way may be to say "American union-made product" or "American non-union-made product") is an inferior product, I cannot see why cannon wants me to buy it JUST to keep my neighbor's job here when my neighbor does not care about the quality of the product he makes...
Why place all the responsibility on me to buy American junk, just because it is American???...all cannon does is raise my cost of living, because if I have to buy more inferior American products, over time more of my disposable income is used to buy American than an import, which may last longer...if the import is better, why isn't my neighbor trying to make a better product, instead of striking for higher wages to make even more junk???
A better import product SHOULD stimulate our manufacturers to make an even better American product, so I would not think of buying the import...cannon, in essence, supports making inferior American products, simply because he would buy the American product, regardless of the quality of the product...cannon, if you have that much disposable income that you can afford to buy junk, and keep replacing it at higher cost and more often, feel free to do so...but please don't subject me to your logic and force me to spend my money on a bad product, just because my neighbor makes it...start jumping down the throat of my neighbor and ask him WHY he makes junk, instead of protecting his job by guaranteeing you will buy his product regardless of whether it works or not...you have guaranteed his job while forcing me to work harder to buy his junk product and all the replacements in the future, when a quality import may only have to be bought once, and it may last many years, saving me the cost of constant replacements...
He must be a big fan of Football since all he ever does is "Blitz" the forum on a monthly basis... :P
1 more week! :shades:
Us import drivers are simply commie pinkos undermining the Great American Dream. BMW owners are of course exempted from this, as half of the GM employees have the roundel hiding behind their closed garage door.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Laws+&+Regulations/Part+583+American+Automobile+Labeling+Ac- t+%28AALA%29+Reports
They build Camrys now but I think Toyota can find the capacity elsewhere.
Well, "French" has spoken, so it must be so!
Was your Lexus one of the vehicles in the recall of 700,000 last month?
That's obviously a good thing, but I will never forget the 'deer in the headlights' expression of Toyota's head of North American Operations, when asked at congressional hearings about how Toyota handles recalls. He let it be known, pretty clearly, that Mr. Toyoda and the Japanese still run that company.
I know that as recent as 2011, Malibu transmissions were manufactured in Mexico, but are now manufactured in the U.S.
Apparently the Focus doesn't fit a good number of people's agenda. It was soundly outsold by the Cruze last month.
What is the count between the Cruze and Focus for fleet sales this year?
IIRC I read somewhere it's in the 20-30% range. The Focus is probably towards 30%. In July the Cruze had virtually zero fleet sales, thus it was a bad month. I'd guess the August sales jump had a healthy fleet percentage.
Take out fleet sales and the Civic is by far the sales leader.
“I saw more Porsches than Chevrolet Cruzes,” he sadly noted.
It does seem that a lot of Washington‘s manifest sense of “We’re special” is reflected in vehicle choices: Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Lexus, plus a plethora of minor players, dominate the scene. Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick or Chrysler and other worthy US brands are rare sights indeed.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz/2012/05/31/irritating-the-foreign-cars-of-wa- shingtons-elite/
Acura surprised me; out of six 2012 models, four have 60% or more US/Canadian content.
The important thing is the the vast majority of the publicly owned vehicles in Washington are domestic.
Not too many sports cars. Pot holes and traffic are bad.
We do see tons of luxury sedans, especially here on K street. Lobby central.
Cruze will soon offer a diesel and that might get them over the Focus in a sustainable way.
It's amazing how generous people can be with other people's money.
Most likely government issued Tahoes.
Keep in mind that the vast majority of those driving imports around DC are not the ones giving government money to GM and Chrysler. You make it sound like every Prius owner in DC is a member of Congress.
Right you are. But your original comment on the article made it seem that all the import owners in DC had a hand in the bailouts.
Then again, I just reread your original post. It had nothing to do with the article at all. I should have just taken it for the political jab that it was.
Gotta love the lack of intellect in posts. One Prius owner bragged how clean his Prius is. The response was pretty good!:
"Actually DC John .your car doesn’t pollute less. The nickel for the battery in your Prius is mined in Canada, then it is shipped on a massive carrier which uses a bunch of petrol to Europe, there it is sent to China and witchcraft is applied to it, then that product is sent to Japan were it is converted to be used as the electric motor of your Prius, then your Prius is sent to the US. Range Rovers are actually substantially less polluting that a Prius. Wizards do not summon up Prius’es. The materials to make them come from all over the world. The ‘Prius effect’ is inconsequential in truth. It does get good MPG though. Although if you live in Colorado, folks are better off buying a deisel since the Prius is always using the gas motoring to cope with the elevation changes of just a daily drive. When the gas motor is the predominant engine being used in the Prius the mileage is actually poor. But since you live in DC, I sort of doubt those are issues that you run into on a daily basis."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Then again, I just reread your original post. It had nothing to do with the article at all. I should have just taken it for the political jab that it was.
If you'd read the original article, the point is that all of the people running around DC, including the LAWMAKERS and LOBBYISTS, are driving around in imports. I made the further point that these same people decided that the domestic automakers needed to be bailed out with OUR money, but said automakers were apparently not worthy of their business.
If you don't like that point, too bad. Go call your Congressman, don't whine at me.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"Prior to working at Ford he served as Executive Vice President of sales at BMW for three years, and he takes some credit in the development of the BMW 3-Series. He joined BMW after eight years with GM in Europe." (Wikipedia)
Also worked for Chrysler, Exide and some vacuum cleaner company.
I vacationed there in the mid'80's, but I wouldn't spend a dime there today. And it has nothing to do with quality or perceived quality.
I was planning on going to Mexico this summer with some friends, but then one of them started freaking out, because of all the drug and gang violence, so we canned that trip.
So, it looks like Aruba again this year, where people do disappear from time to time, but I'm convinced that it's because they mix scuba diving and snorkeling with open bars on the boats! :surprise:
Last year, I saw a '56 DeSoto Fireflite in Aruba. I wonder what kind of nightmare it must be to keep something like that running down there? Looked like it was in really nice shape. too.
No, gracias :sick:
Issac or Debbie the recent weather upheavals to affect Fla and the Gulf region were minor and left some rain, but nothing to screw up the price..I live in SW Fla, just another cloud-burst to support the "green jobs" of mowing..
To support our American economy in the future with new manufacturing jobs is slim to no-way..Buy a liquor store or a tavern to help the public handle the boredom..You will rake in the money and provide a public service.. Booze and your electronic gadgets should help one through the day, and your monthly or weekly govt check will help calm your nerves..
We have 2 options for Nov 6th, one will make you bend over and the other one will force you to grab your ankles.. Great choice????
I have enjoyed the American auto industry and made a few bucks from my involvement on the manufacturing side and the sales/marketing end..The 14 yrs prior to 2002 were the best ones as a self-employed commissioned rep..only mistake, I quit too early, but family illness took precedence..
Most of the auto jobs in the USA are assembly operations of components received from some offshore manufacturer due to our stringent federal, state and local laws making it impossible to physically create a part..however we can assemble these foreign produced parts..Our govt gladly stands in the way of our manufacturing to comply with their eco-friend's requests donating to their campaign coffers.
I will continue to purchase an American named Detroit-based automobile except GM or Chrysler..so I am down to Mustang, Taurus or Fusion Sport..The Fusion would have to be a 2012 model for the V-6 is gone in 2013 lineup.
After owning 34 GM cars and 3 Chrysler out of the 53 total, Ford was an early favorite, however, they haven't been on my list for years..now they are tops..I realize Fusion is assembled in Hermosillo, Mexico, however back in 50s I spent alot time in Mexico.. Nogales and Guaymas primarily, great places back then.. Party time and lots of bullfights..Was going to school in Tucson, long way from Indiana..
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So wait a year (they'll work the kinks out too) and get one made in Michigan.
Given the botched launches they've had lately, that's sound advice...
That's good to hear. The whole Hecho en Mehico thing was, to me at least, the biggest deterrent to the Fusion. I always found the car to be pleasant enough overall, but would just have preferred a higher US content. The Fusion was usually around 35% US content, whereas the Altima, another midsize that I like about the same, was usually around 65%, and assembled in the US.
So if I liked the two cars equally otherwise, the content would have been enough to sway me in favor of the Altima.
That only answers half of French's concerns. He had concerns about depreciation as well. If I were to rear-end you at 55 MPH in a Hummer H1, how much would your precious GM's be worth then to my insurance company? :P