Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

andres3

He let it be known, pretty clearly, that Mr. Toyoda and the Japanese still run that company.

Hopefully that's a good thing, as it'll prevent GM disease from fully infecting Toyota!

uplanderguy

Hopefully that's a good thing, as it'll prevent GM disease from fully infecting Toyota!

Too late.

lemko

For the umpteenth time - I don't give a rat's butt about depreciation. My cars are worth their weight in gold to me regardless of what some arbitrary assessor thinks of them. Buying a car I hate just because it's got better resale value is still wasting money in my book. If any of our cars were totalled in an accident, I would immediately replace it with another GM vehicle.

motorcity6

This is my son's car that was purchased new and now has about 80k mi on it. Recently it developed a condition whereas acceleration and cruising speeds gave the indication of a slipping transmission..Finally after a week of off/on performance the "check engine" came on and off to the dealer.. Two maladies were found, fuel distribution problem covered by warranty, and they blamed the check engine light on the auto climate control system which would require removing the entire dashboard assy to repair the duct work/flappers, and etc..The fix was $1,700..I was called, my reply was fix the fuel problem and forget the climate control for I couldn't see any relationship to check engine light coming on..

Two weeks later the car is running like new, no problems, no "check engine" lights appearing and a/c, climate control is doing its job..$1,700 is still in the bank..Dealer scam!!!

He traded in a 2002 Caddy STS on this car which had a cracked block showing 160k miles..He would have gotten a CTS Caddy, however there were none equipped with sunroof at his favorite dealer..He likes Caddies and did the 1993 Allante route which was a loser..I think he has been the owner of 6 Caddies, all new and were driven to exhaustion..or wrecked..

The next time the Hemi-Chrysler burps. it goes away..It has had front and rear suspension problems, never thru a car-wash, only hand-washed and garaged every night..However it is driven in the Michigan area which is "chuck-hole" heaven..

Out of the 53 cars owned, only three were Chrysler Corp products, the last one being a 66 Barracuda S model..

In one of the recent auto mags testing the 2013 Caddy XTS Platinum stickering @$59,430, they said "A $60K car that makes more sense at $44k." Since this Caddy utilizes the same body and engine as the upcoming Chev Impala LTZ, I think both car lines are overpriced, but GM needs the money to pay off us taxpayers. After all, GE and our Govt agencies can only buy so many Volts with our tax $$$$$s.. GM has turned into a "joke."

andres3

I suppose when you only drive 365 miles a year then depreciation doesn't matter

I drive about 15K miles per year, which means I'm exposed to bad drivers that rear-end vehicles at will on occassion. I'd hate to give an insurance company anything it could use to have its way with me. I need something that holds its value or I'd pay as little as possible up front as possible and buy "gap" coverage.

lemko

I live in the city where cars are in constant threat of accidents, theft, vandalism, etc. I'm not making payments on any vehicles right now. When I was, I always carried gap, especially for the modest amount it costs. If I plan to buy another vehicle, I always have a massive down payment plus a really nice trade. Next time, I might just pay cash and be done with it. The dealer doesn't even need to detail any of my trades. He can put it on the lot as is. One car I traded sold within a week. I recall a co-worker of mine telling me she wondered why I was in her neighborhood until she discovered one of her neighbors just bought my old car!

gagrice

Why can't GM build an AC system that lasts as long as the engine? I was lucky on two GM trucks to have the AC compressor go out under my extended warranty. My son coming down from Alaska in his 03 Yukon had the AC go out in Oregon. $1300 to replace. My wife's 1990 Lexus LS400 has never even had to add Freon to the system after 23 years. It still blows cold air in our 100 degree weather. Is it planned obsolescence on the part of GM, or just poor quality US made parts?

stever

Tell him not to get an older (2005ish) Honda CR-V. Forgot who supplies their AC compressors; maybe it's Delco, lol.

lemko

I dunno. I've been very lucky with GM A/C systems. My Cadillac Brougham still has the original stuff after 23+ years.

bpizzuti

Never had a problem with GM's A/C either. They always outlasted the alternators on my GMs...which were apparently designed to be disposable.

fezo

I was going to say the same thing. I'd had loads of issues with GMs but the AC was never one of them.

dieselone

I had the compressor fail at 60k on my suburban, the a/c in my fil's Tahoe hasn't worked in 10 years. I think it had about 90k when it died. So far my AC still works at 110k. I know my grandpa replaced the a/c in his GM cars, but he spent the winters in Florida so the a/c was used year round. I wouldn't say GM had any more a/c problems than anyone especially. I've had several a/c issues in a variety of cars at around by 100k.

andre1969

The last GM car that I've personally had a compressor fail in happened to be my first car...a 1980 Malibu coupe that my Mom gave me when I hit driving age. I think it was the summer of '87 that the compressor went bad. Granddad bought one from the junkyard and fixed it for me.

Now, that's not to say I haven't taken on GM cars where the a/c was already broken, and just not bothered to get them fixed. The a/c didn/doesn't work in my old '69 Bonneville, '67 Catalina, '76 LeMans, or '85 Silverado.

The Bonneville never ran long enough for me to bother with it...plus it was a 4-door hardtop, so it had pretty good ventilation. The Catailna's a convertible, so a/c isn't critical. And by the time I bought the LeMans, I had enough other cars to rotate through, that it's non-functioning a/c wasn't that big of a deal.

On the pickup, it's a bit annoying, because the driver's side power window also stopped working, so it can heat up a bit. But, if you put on the vent, open the back window, roll down the passenger window, and open the driver's side vent, it's not too bad.

The compressor seized up in my 2000 Intrepid in early 2009, probably around the 140K or so mark. I blame myself though, as it was low on freon and I knew it. I was trying to hold out until warmer weather, but it seized up one day while I was running the defogger. That was a $1300 lesson learned.

lemko

The car I had with best A/C system was a 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS. That A/C was so cold one could see frost forming on the vents. I could've parked that car in the middle of a blacktop parking lot in the middle of July with ice cream inside and that A/C probably would've kept it frozen!

andre1969

The last GM car that I've personally had a compressor fail in happened to be my first car...a 1980 Malibu coupe that my Mom gave me when I hit driving age. I think it was the summer of '87 that the compressor went bad. Granddad bought one from the junkyard and fixed it for me.

Now, that's not to say I haven't taken on GM cars where the a/c was already broken, and just not bothered to get them fixed. The a/c didn/doesn't work in my old '69 Bonneville, '67 Catalina, '76 LeMans, or '85 Silverado.

The Bonneville never ran long enough for me to bother with it...plus it was a 4-door hardtop, so it had pretty good ventilation. The Catailna's a convertible, so a/c isn't critical. And by the time I bought the LeMans, I had enough other cars to rotate through, that it's non-functioning a/c wasn't that big of a deal.

On the pickup, it's a bit annoying, because the driver's side power window also stopped working, so it can heat up a bit. But, if you put on the vent, open the back window, roll down the passenger window, and open the driver's side vent, it's not too bad.

The compressor seized up in my 2000 Intrepid in early 2009, probably around the 140K or so mark. I blame myself though, as it was low on freon and I knew it. I was trying to hold out until warmer weather, but it seized up one day while I was running the defogger. That was a $1300 lesson learned.

dieselone

It seems to me that changes in freon have meant current systems don't get at cold as they used to. The a/c in my expedition works well enough but it certainly won't freeze you out like some cars I remember from 80's could.

uplanderguy

Dieselone, THAT we agree on. I think AC is just generally not as cold as twenty or more years ago.

dieselone

Yeah I remember being able to see condensation or a type of fog coming out of the a/c vents back with ice cold air, I haven't seen that in probably 15 years.

andre1969

Yeah I remember being able to see condensation or a type of fog coming out of the a/c vents back with ice cold air, I haven't seen that in probably 15 years.

I think I've read somewhere that, if you see condensation coming out like that, it's actually a sign there's something wrong with the system! FWIW, my '89 Gran Fury used to do that on occasion, but I never had any issues with the a/c.

I think the best a/c I ever had in a car was what was in my grandmother's '85 LeSabre, which she gave to me when she couldn't pass the eye test anymore and had to give up her license.

dieselone

Interesting , I remember my grandpa's Delta 88 and caprice often venting something when it was really!! hot out on a long drive .

andre1969

I just searched online, and found the answer in, of all places, a Honda Element owners forum...

"It's not a problem, nothing is wrong with your E. When the air running through the heater core is very humid, the cold from the AC will cause the water to condense into vapor and blow through your vents. Try turning it onto recirculate for a few minutes and it should stop."

So, it looks like it could be humidity, more than simply hot weather, that does it, and it's no cause for alarm.

dieselone

That would make sense because I noticed it the most in Florida.

stever

"The United States on Monday filed a broad trade case against China at the World Trade Organization, alleging unfair subsidies for exports of cars and auto parts.

The case comes at a critical time in the United States presidential campaign, as auto manufacturing states in the upper Midwest like Michigan, Wisconsin and particularly Ohio have turned into crucial battlegrounds. But the case may not make any difference in terms of jobs for many months, as W.T.O. cases typically take a year and a half before a final decision is reached, and sometimes longer."

U.S. Files Trade Case Against China Over Cars (NY Times)

bpizzuti

""The United States on Monday filed a broad trade case against China at the World Trade Organization, alleging unfair subsidies for exports of cars and auto parts." I suppose bailouts, on the other hand, are completely fair, right?

fintail

No less fair than subsidizing other industries or wasting zillions on bad foreign aid policies, I guess.

Nice to see something being done about the "trade surrender" (one of the few correct things uttered by the opponent) anyway.

berri

I recall GM having a bi level setting some years ago which was great for winter. You could cool the top vents and heat the bottom.

berri

I think corporate greed and political money has foisted this globalization crap on us. So far, globalization seems to mean big profits and executive pay for large corporations and screw jobs for many Americans. Then you have the Federal Reserve policies devaluing the dollar resulting in higher commodity prices for US consumers. The middle class has been getting shafted by both political parties and our big corporations for awhile now. I expect that however they end up fixing the budget issues here, one thing will be for sure - the middle class will be eating most of it, while the rich will be increasing their trust fund balances rather than investing and creating jobs.

fintail

That sums up my ideas about the globalization disaster- and I see more sinister demographic motives behind it too, but that's a conspiracy theory for another venue.

I think one can argue no wealth is really even being created in this broad economic (everything from trade policies to endless quantitative easing) charade, it is simply being transferred from what was the first world working/middle class...a little going to the underclass, a lot going to the top few, who haven't had it so good since before the depression. If anything, the past 30 years of these defective ideas have proven that gains for a few indeed do not trickle down.

gagrice

I think we have lost every grievance we have lodged with the WTO. We should bail out of it. Losing the COOL suit was a biggie. I don't buy any food products that do not specifically say made in USA. Now that we cannot force companies to tell US where stuff comes from.

I see GM wants the Feds to sell some stock and they won't do it.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/general-motors-pushing-us-to-sell-stake-report-- 2012-09-17

bpizzuti

That would be because if the Feds sell, it would be at a massive loss.

fintail

That origin label shenanigans, especially for food and anything else similar, really irks me. More legislation that proves corporations control government.

lemko

I wouldn't say wealth is being created at all. It's being confiscated and hoarded by a tiny and exponentially greedy minority.

fintail

Pretty much. The bottom rung has gained some (in raw terms, probably not relative), but most of it is trickling up.

berri

The wealthy funding all of those trickle down ads must forget about the real result of trickle down economics - enlarged trust funds. Bankers and lawyers may benefit a bit. Everyone else will end up seeing a mini boom and then an ugly bubble burst thanks to the hedge funds pigging out on the trust fund investments. Old man Bush got stuck with the results of "trickle down" and then his son turned around and did the same thing.

stever

The one guy who can get us back on topic.

fintail

I wonder what would happen if tax rates went back to the day when the US actually funded infrastructure and had a viable middle/working class.

Maybe more American cars to be made and sold :shades:

berri

I think taxes and loopholes need to be simplified, but it will never happen with all the lobbyists and politician payola.

ateixeira

Probably just political posturing, we'll see.

I saw a "GM Performance Parts" hydraulic jack this weekend, MADE IN CHINA. Nice.

Then a whole kit, with jack stands and other stuff, MADE IN CHINA.

Dunno about you but I'm not getting under a car held up by a widow maker made by the lowest bidder. :sick:

andre1969

That just got me thinking...a few years ago I bought a Sears Craftsman hydraulic jack. I just presumed it was made in the US, but I guess I'd better double-check!

I've never fully trusted hydraulic jacks, so I always put jackstands under the car before I go under there, so maybe it's no big deal. And, for good measure, if I'm in a situation where I have a wheel off the car, I'll put it under one of the frame rails...so that way if it comes crashing down, I guess maybe it won't crush me as bad!

Oh, back in 2009 when I bought my Park Ave, the Buick/Caddy/GMC dealer had some blingy aftermarket rims on display in the showroom. And, naturally, they were made in China... :sick:

marsha7

"Really? What about my 1989 Cadillac Brougham that still looks and runs like a brand-new car or my 1988 Buick Park Avenue, or my 1968 Buick Special Deluxe that was still running in 1992. My wife's 2005 Buick LaCrosse has yet to experience an unscheduled maintenance event nor has my 2007 Cadillac DTS."

As previously stated, if the rest of us bought GM cars like yours, we could never even spell Honda or Toyota because they would have gotten nowhere...they grew like weeds because the vast number of Americans who bought GM (and F and C) felt they were shafted, or they never would have even LOOKED at foreign competition...

And the fact that imports grew to the size they are is that more of those folks were happier with their import than the Big 3 junk that cannon3 wants to force them to buy...yeah, from reading his posts, I believe, no insult intended, that cannon would force us to buy American REGARDLESS of the quality, cimply bevcause he feels it is patriotic to buy American made junk since his neighbor made it...

Many of us WANT to buy American stuff that ISN"T junk, but the American worker has to step up to the plate and EARN our business, whereas it seems that cannon does not believe that...I want Americans to make the best so we can buy the best, made here, and help our American neighbors keep their jobs by EARNING our business...

What is wrong with that???

lemko

A lot of times some fly-by-night company will buy the rights to a well-known name just to have a recognizable name on their product. I've seen all kinds of crazy name placement like "ABC Sports" on a pair of cheap sunglasses.

lemko

Then what makes me so lucky?

dieselone

Then what makes me so lucky?

Good question. But I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with taste. The cars you love I don't like as I'm sure you don't like many of the vehicles I do, which is why it's great we have so many options. I'd be horrified if tomorrow we were only allowed to buy from Ford, GM and Chrysler. Even though my next vehicle will likely be from one of those 3.

I can't think of one vehicle from late 80's detroit I'd remotely want to own or drive today. My BIL has a showroom clean '88 Corvette with 40k miles on it. It's just a big of a POC today as it was the day it came of the lot. But he loves it and has spent a ton to keep it in top shape. He has a receipt folder 3" thick. Granted his daily driver is an '11 Acura MDX which he admits drives far nicer and he hasn't owned a domestic daily driver in 10 years.

You claim you don't see where the price difference is justified between a late model park ave and similar vintage LS430 and that an LS is just a Park Ave with a fancy interior (no the LS isn't my type of car) and I cringe. I could probably write a dissertation on hundreds areas the LS far superior to a park ave or any Cadillac. They're not even comparable to the point the comparison is comical.

Maybe Cadillac will one day build a true world class car. The ATS just might be, I've read very good reviews on it. But other than that, Cadillac has had nothing to be proud of in over 30 years and certainly hasn't been world class. As our top American luxury brand that's a disgrace. The US should be able to build cars that can go toe to toe with the best around the world, I just with they would.

ateixeira

A name is a valuable thing in terms of PR value. They should be careful who they lend their name out to.

GM has been smart about blocking some Saab buyers. Otherwise we'll see some cheap knock offs of the SRX (Saab had a clone).

fintail

Would you like Chinese quality metallurgy for the wheels on your car? No thanks.

I see a lot of cars with blingy aftermarket wheels - the used luxo dealers seem to like to stick them on - nothing cooler than a 2003 E-class or similar year Range Rover with big ugly aftermarket wheels. All made in China no doubt. First step on a car headed to its death.

lemko

There are a lot of shady BHPH lots in marginal Lower NE Philly neighborhoods that sell cars like that to unsuspecting fools who think they can look rich for cheap. It's not long before their rides are broken and there's no funds for a costly out-of-warranty repair as the cars are sitting in front of run-down rowhouses or in the potholed lots of fleabag apartment complexes until the local "yutes" strip them clean like vultures and hyenas strip a carcass or they're repo'd and the owners' already shaky credit is further in the toilet.

roadburner

I recall GM having a bi level setting some years ago which was great for winter. You could cool the top vents and heat the bottom.

My first -and last- GM car(a 1974 Monte Carlo) had that feature, and it worked well. Funny thing, my X3 and 328i have a thumbwheel that allows you to vary the temperature coming from the dash vents; I believe BMW first incorporated that feature in the '90s. Some people don't like that system but I find it useful.

fezo

I can't think of one vehicle from late 80's detroit I'd remotely want to own or drive today.

Come on! You're talking to lemko! AT least you could say "there's only one late 80s Detroit."........

dieselone

Come on! You're talking to lemko! AT least you could say "there's only one late 80s Detroit."...

I guess I could say that..LOL. There were several domestic cars I liked in the 80's but that was then, I don't want them now.

fezo

Just as well. He isn't selling his.