Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

fintail

V12 BMWs are eventual money pits. Really, any V12 car is going to be a nightmare given enough time. The car would be a 750/760 or an 850 series model.

American cars have a place in the modern world, but mostly just in NA.

fintail

Imported from Canuckistan?

I'd feel better getting you a gift card for vaccination/inoculation before those plane tickets. :shades:

stever

Any car imported to the US is going to have to meet our vehicle standards for safety and mpg, emissions, etc. I don't know how they could be as bad as the stuff I drove in the 60s. I'd take a new Tata over the '59 Chevy that was in the family for a while (the one that no one wanted to drive....).

roadburner

I wouldn't tolerate this in a cheapo car, yet a Bimmer.

Well, as I said, I've only owned 10 BMWs over the last 19 years, most to over 130,000 miles or more. I'm currently running four in the RB fleet(possibly five if I can unload the Mazda for a good price). No engine failures, no transmission problems. Two repair bills over $1000. Four were also my HPDE cars(after just three days at the track my Mazda needed a turbo and a new front strut).
Having said all that, apart from my Wrangler, I'm never owning another Big 2.5 car- unless the UAW collapses...

fintail

Of course, time and technology march on - the cheapest new cars will be more reliable and safer than much more expensive cars from the past. Just as a mediocre $450 flat panel today will blow away the most amazing set from 40 years ago. I am more concerned with the socio-political-economic consequences and perhaps shoddy build quality and longevity of cars from certain locations, than safety or emissions. The Yugo met our standards, too...

stever

I am more concerned with the socio-political-economic consequences

What, you think Deutschland is going to start invading their neighbors again?

I guess Renault could start a Maginot line of cars. I could see myself fleeing north in an Espace.

fintail

I don't think Germany is a legit worry to anyone. But some others seem to behave like Germany did around 75 years ago.

Maginot line of cars...first cars with 8 reverse gears? :shades:

gagrice

Too late to worry about China, they make our computers, phones, shoes and apple juice. They sell US fish raised in Sewage. Something like 70% of the tilapia sold in the USA is from China. Soon they will own GM and then we will have NO good reason to own a car from government motors.

stever

If all people are concerned about is foreign cars taking over the US marketplace, then they should be concerned about Germany, not China.

VW's stated goal, after all, is world dominion.

And they are a (partially) state owned auto manufacturer. There's an idea - maybe the feds would sell their stake in GM to the state of Michigan.

gagrice

The Feds are not likely to sell any shares at the current price. If they sold now it would be about a $25+ billion loss not counting the billions they dumped into the GM/UAW pension fund to bring it up to PBGC standards. To break even on GM bailout their stock has to reach $54 per share. That does not count the UAW giveaway.

China will buy it one defunct factory at a time. I think you are safe, they are not likely to buy the UP. I was surprised they passed on A123 and let it go bankrupt. Though it had little real value. The Li-Ion batteries already come from Korea and China.

stever

China's broke. They just don't know it yet.

gagrice

Much easier for China to implement austerity than here. They just kill the dissenters. Here we pay their rent, give them a debit card and a smartphone. All at the tax payers expense.

lemko

That old factory dates to 1903.

lemko

I'd say somebody willfully putting Chinese tires on his car should be sued into oblivion when they fail and put other drivers' lives in peril.

stever

Just like we did with Firestone 500s made in Illinois that caused 34 deaths? But no, the feds just made them recall 7 million tires. (Wikipedia)

gagrice

Ford, Dodge and Chevy use OEM Hankook Chinese tires.

http://www.hankooktireusa.com/Comp/Companypf.aspx?pageNum=5&subNum=3&ChildNum=1

busiris

Seems as if every manufacturer gets burned by the laws of chemistry and physics sooner or later.

BMW is no different that GM in that regard (Vega, anyone?)

Still, if a company is going to survive in the modern world of rapidly advancing technology, it's going to have a failure ever so often, even with the best of planning, research and intentions.

Every product can't be a winner.

I don't see any other alternative.

fintail

They make tires in China, but for western world OEM consumption? I didn't notice that in the link.

I'll stick to my first world Michelins, thanks.

fintail

Some might be worried about using their money to aid a system which is hostile towards our own. That system isn't Germany. If anything, Germany wants the US to remain viable - virtually free defense via our perpetually bloated military ego, not to mention a good consumer market.

stever

Per Gary's link Hankook has been doing R&D in Akron since '92 and has had a strategic alliance with Michelin since 2003.

Your "first world" Michelins could be Hankooks from the cord up.

dieselone

My wife's Taurus has Hankook tires. I'll have to check where they're made. I think she has close to 40k on them and they've held up well so far.

Yeah, I do like Michelins. Don't like paying for them, but they seem worth it to me.

Well I got this from Hankook's website

5 production facilities, located in China, Hungary and Korea

uplanderguy

I have never seen a Hankook tire on a new Chevrolet. Not that I look a lot, but I'd like to think I'd have noticed as I look at new cars when I'm in for routine service.

fintail

If you can find anything showing the wincingly expensive low profile PS2s my car uses being engineered by Hankook, I'd love to see it. And even so, they aren't made in China, which is the point.

fintail

Cheaping out on tires is penny wise and pound foolish. Which explains why value priced new cars do it.

I suspect Hankook sells tires worldwide now, perhaps the Chinese production meant for local markets.

stever

The point is that you don't know. The little rubber pellets probably come from Africa. The textile mills making the cords could be from anywhere, as could the steel mills making the belts and beads. If all you are worried about is the final assembly location, then you are not seeing the trees. The only thing French about a Michelin tire may be the logo design of the Michelin Man.

dieselone

I have never seen a Hankook tire on a new Chevrolet.

http://www.equinoxforum.net/index.php?topic=1733.0

Apparently, GM uses them too.

fintail

I don't think tires have much real rubber in them anymore, do they?

Final assembly location is a key determinant of build quality.

But if it justifyies supporting the Chinese juggernaut, do it and feel better. We're all one world, hold hands, kumbyah.

Next year I might get a set of these for the old car...probably not made in China

gagrice

Here is some info on COO for classic tires.

The Biggest Complaints we hear about is the Poor Quality of Tyres made outside the USA. No Reference is made in their Catalogs as to where their White Walls or Red Line Classic tyres are Actually Made. They deny they are having Problems if you ask. " Made in the USA " Wide White Wall Tyres. Are far better Quality any way you look at them.

After doing a Little Research We have come up with these Answers. we stand Corrected if Not True !

You might want to check out this site:

Why Choose Diamondback?
Made in the USA!

For years, Diamondback Classics has been the producer of wide whitewall, redline, blueline, and goldline tires. Utilizing the latest and highest quality manufacturing process, Diamondback Classics provides you with all of the modern-day safety, handling, and ride quality of a true radial tire with the look of yesteryear.

http://www.classic-usa-cars.com/index1a.html

stever

"So this is what "getting tough on China" got us. Consumers spent $1.1 billion extra to put tires on their cars in 2011. Most of the money went to factories in other low-wage countries. And we sold a lot less chicken. Great deal, no?"

'Getting Tough on China' Is an Expensive and Terrible Idea (The Atlantic)

Sounds like the American way. Gouge me so more money can go to big corporate, and the jobs just go to Indonesia or Mexico instead.

fintail

Cool site, thanks. Sadly, they don't sell proper sized tires for my car.

fintail

I'll just agree with some of the comments on that glorified opinion piece, and leave it at that. When I see "clear" and "probably" in the same sentence, the author is on thin ice.

Have fun with that Chery, those cheapo tires, and poisoned consumer goods.

stever

Life is good, thanks.

You know about Coker Tires too?

busiris

That's what came standard on the 2005 Aveo LT hatchback. I know, because I had one.

robr2

But the Aveo was coming out of Korea so it having Kumhos isn't a big surprise.

busiris

Hankooks, not Kumhos.... Not that it makes much difference, nor did I find it surprising.

Still, it was a GM product.... Chevrolet...

uplanderguy

My 2011 Chevrolet came with Firestones that look nice, but are noisy after 21K miles IMO.

My wife wanted an Equinox, but after driving both, picked the Malibu, thankfully. It was way cheaper and I just don't like the looks of the Equinox..so 'girly' IMHO. I guess that's why I never saw Hankooks on them...I don't look at them.

fintail

Yep. They don't have any either. Not a huge market for 13" wide whitewall radials no matter where they are made :shades:

lemko

...GM cars came with Goodyear tires as OEM and Ford cars came with Firestones. Who was the primary tire supplier of Mopar back in the day?

andre1969

Who was the primary tire supplier of Mopar back in the day?

Dunno...I guess the next time I see my DeSoto at the mechanic, I'll take a peek at its spare tire, which I think is original.

By the time 2000 came around, on the Intrepid at least, Goodyear Eagle GAs were standard. I didn't even bother to notice what my 2012 Ram came with. And it's back at the dealer now, getting a sliding rear window installed, so I can't check it, either.

andres3

And they are a (partially) state owned auto manufacturer. There's an idea - maybe the feds would sell their stake in GM to the state of Michigan.

I love that idea! Let the Michiganders/Michiganites/Michiganians and Ohians pay for their precious too big to fail car companies. Let them own them, and when they come crying for another bailout, they can be the ones who will fund the next bailouts.

Leave the rest of America alone from that liability of supporting and subsidizing those lemon factories! :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:

robr2

...GM cars came with Goodyear tires as OEM and Ford cars came with Firestones. Who was the primary tire supplier of Mopar back in the day?

My 87 Daytona came with Goodyear tires and IIRC so did my Dad's 3 Caravans.

BTW, Ford may have used Firestone tires because of the family ties. Bill Ford's mother is a Firestone.

ateixeira

Funny how this became a tire discussion.

OEM Dunlops on my minivan were great, FWIW, Gary. Got 56k miles out of them, and just replaced them now. I think they were USA made, but not sure.

I'll choose tires based on consumer reviews with large enough samples that I know it's not just ballot stuffing, though.

gagrice

Tire Rack rated my OEM Dunlops AT 20s very poor. Customer rating 5.2.

The Dunlops were noisy and wore very fast. I replaced them with Michelin LTX M/S2 tires. Very quiet smooth ride and handle much better in the rain.

The Dunlop AT21 on my Nissan are poor in the rain also. Not sure if they are OE or not. Hard to tell if they are noisy in a PU Truck. I won't be replacing them with the same tires.

ateixeira

Mine were good, touring type, 215/65R16. Not truck tires, though.

roadburner

The Dunlops were noisy and wore very fast. I replaced them with Michelin LTX M/S2 tires. Very quiet smooth ride and handle much better in the rain.

I love the Direzza Star Specs on my Club Sport. Ditto for the RVXTs on the Wrangler. That said, the Pilot Super Sports I have on the Mazdaspeed3 are excellent so far- but they have yet to see the track...

cooterbfd

Yeah, Mike but the smell of that chocolate on Chocolate ave would fill my tummy before we got to Funcks restaurant!!!

andres3

Do you still trust the Mazda on the track for another weekend?

Was I correct in hearing you had 2 major issues from just one weekend of track driving?

I've tracked my Audi A3 five separate weekends now, and only issue was a bad re-circulation valve that only affected the performance a bit (noticeable after it was fixed, but not really noticeable beforehand except for the MIL light).

P.S. Speaking of tires, don't try the Continental ExtremeContact DW's for street and track/autocross combo duty. While they have excellent grip and make a great street tire, they cannot hold up to the heat of a track situation, and experience severe tire chunking every time.

roadburner

Do you still trust the Mazda on the track for another weekend?

I'm probably going to give it a try next spring. As I said; I never had an issue with any of my Bimmers.

Back on topic, another instructor brought his new Taurus SHO company car(replete with the new "Performance Package") to the last HPDE where I instructed. After just five laps he pulled into the pits with brakes that were smoking so bad that the corner workers thought the car was on fire...

mt2000

LOL, what I good idea!

The Germans have great design, but their reliability sucks (Bimmers seem the best, but even they are below average compared to most Japanese-made stuff).

The Japanese have great reliability, but their design sucks most of the time.

The American car manufacturers currently seem to be somewhere in the middle, which is to say that both the design and the quality are a bit below mediocre.

Bailing GM out was a travesty -- a payroll tax cut would have been a better use of the money to stumulate job creation.

And if GM was too big to fail, why is it still allowed to be so big?

I guess so that it can keep coming up with new nameplates every year (which you learn NOT to do in Branding 101), pinned on inconsistent, gaudy designs (this may be due to the design wasteland where GM is based) and adorned with that Chevy decal which is the design equivalent to a gold tooth? Oh, and did I mention that the build quality sucks?

Phew!

:confuse:

uplanderguy

It's funny to hear someone talk about GM's 'gaudy designs'. What products would you say that about now? A gaudy design I can come up with in about ten seconds of thought, is the Joker-inspired grin on the front of Acuras.

And do you think the Chevy emblem is more gaudy than the stupid Toyota emblem (which is huge) or the Subaru emblem which reminds me of the Pittsburgh Steelers emblem?

And wow, that 'rename every year'? They used Cavalier for 24 model years and Camaro, Corvette, Impala, Malibu, and Suburban are among the very longest-used nameplates in the industry, worldwide.