Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

gagrice

Cadillac over the last several years has been gaudy in a cartoonish way. Not something an adult could really like. Audi is ugly in its own way as well. I don't think there is more than 1 out of a 100 vehicles I like the looks of today. VW has about the cleanest lines. Could be the reason they will soon be the largest automobile company in the World.

uplanderguy

I like Cadillac's razor-edge styling...first seen on the magnificent '67 Eldorado. It doesn't ape Asian or German styling, which is why I like it. The only Caddy now that I really don't like the styling of, is the CTS coupe's too-high decklid.

gagrice

To me the ultimate Caddy was the 1958 Eldorado. Went down hill from there. And the current sharp edges really turn me off. I do know people that like them. Some of the 1970s Sedan de Ville's were pretty nice cruisers. I would say the 1950s were the heydays for Caddy. I don't expect any of the new ones to ever be classics like the 57-58 Eldo. If you had a 50s Cadillac convertible, it was like having a Ferrari today.

imidazol97

1958 Eldorado

fintail

Even better - Eldorado Brougham:



Not just cool, but high tech for the time as well. Probably the pinnacle of the brand.

gagrice

Is that yours? A guy I worked with had about 3 old Cadillac convertibles. All very high dollar iron. That would be more fun cruising the blvd than most anything made today.

gagrice

I did not like the 1959 so much. But this guy turned down $130k for his... I had no idea they were that valuable.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1959-Cadillac-Eldorado-Biarritz-Converible-REAL-O- RIGINAL-and-RARE-1-1-/200765584587?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2ebe8fb4cb#ht_2644- wt_1165&afsrc=1

gagrice

If you missed out on that one. Here is another one you might want. Some cars really hold their value well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261118031323&fromM- akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

fezo

And do you think the Chevy emblem is more gaudy than the stupid Toyota emblem

Yes yes and yes. It needs to be smaller and not that bronze.

fintail

59s are kind of in their own world, and are sought everywhere. A little overdone for me. But, Detroit was still king then.

tlong

Yes yes and yes. It needs to be smaller and not that bronze.

My issue isn't so much the appearance of the emblem as the meaning of the name. Many companies reorganizing in BK rebrand themselves. The airlines did this. You want the public to feel that you are a new and different company this time.

While the loyalists may love GM, GM really needs more new buyers. And to a large swath of the population, GM stands for decades of lousy products, along with the big bailouts. GM should have changed the emblem and even their name to emphasize the rebirth. They didn't do that, and so they are just the same old GM to too many people. That doesn't help sales as much as the rebranding would have - the loyalists would still have been loyal, and the skeptics would have been more likely to reconsider GM.

gagrice

And the same old sloggy UAW workers putting the cars together. If my 2005 GMC Hybrid PU had been in a league with my 1990s Suburban and GM PU trucks, I would not be down on GM now. The bailout was purely political payback to the UAW which to my way of thinking played a big role in the demise of GM. So no GM for me. Maybe a Jeep GC diesel. That would be about the extent of my Domestic brand interest.

imidazol97

>So no GM for me.

Maybe that can change with the next admin. A good, but radical book, Shadowbosses, has lots of data about the UAW payback and how they came out the winners financially ahead of bondholders and others in GM's realm. I trust data--I can filter the extremism on some of the other unions. I'm wondering if some of the favored treatment can be walked back by a non-union Congress and Administration.

I wouldn't let the assembly by US workers of a US brand in the US keep me from buying a particular car even if the assembly were by UAW.

stever

"Honda has invested $12.3 billion in the U.S. -- $8 billion in Ohio -- employs more than 26,000 Americans and has never laid off a worker. Workers were retained and paid for months when Ohio plants cut production following the tsunami in Japan."

Honda's Ohio plant changed competitive landscape in America (Detroit Free Press)

uplanderguy

That's a good thing about Honda, but why write off our domestic manufacturers (the ones that are actually headquartered in the U.S., employ more workers and suppliers than the transplants, and have employed workers for a century here)? GM has recently brought new production to the U.S. as well.

imidazol97

That makes a nice story. But the reality is that in this part of Ohio for the decades of reductions by the Big 3 didn't let those workers with any association with unions at those plants get jobs with the Honda engine and vehicle plants north of us. Indeed, a few years back Indiana specifically drew lines around the Anderson, Indiana county area where large numbers of union auto related plants had employed folks when they drew the area for special treatment for hiring.

Would Honda be increasing investment here if the dollar had not been lowered in value the last 4 years by the printing of dollars which made the Japanese currency worth more for imports--bring it closer to the actual value at which it should have been through the decades where it was undervalued like the Chinese currency has been as well. That drives up the cost of importing vehicles so it's cheaper to build them here to sell into the US market.

andre1969

Hey gang. I'm in Aruba this week and specified a "luxury" rental car since it wasn't much more expensive than what passes for full size down here. They gave me a Kia Opirus. I'm almost embarrassed to say what that translates to in Americanese...

Anyway, y'all have fun back home, and those of you in Sandy's path, be careful! Hope everybody stays safe!

fintail

Good idea to dodge that storm headed to your house.

Opirus = Amanti. I saw one in Switzerland once, driven by a dealer of course. In Europe, Hyunkia suits had the arrogance to price it like a lowline E/5er, and I don't know if a single one sold.

I don't think many American cars make it to the old Dutch islands - lots of Japankorean stuff I think.

gagrice

I am sure there are UAW workers that are as competent as any other worker. It is the entitlement attitude I would protest. That said, if GM came up with a nice looking SUV powered by diesel I may have to eat my words. Though I am probably safe as GM has not been at the leading edge for decades. GM may finally get a diesel car with the Cruze diesel in 2014. They are no better than Honda at making it clean. They are going to have to use adblue in their 4 cylinder diesel. If VW can get their 4 bangers clean enough to pass, why can't Honda, Mazda, Subaru and Chevy? Must be the German engineering. :shades:

busiris

If they can't figure out how to do it on their own, I feel sure VW, MB, BMW or some other manufacturer will be more than happy to sell and license the technology to them.

It's the way car companies do business today.

iwant12

I'm also interested in a GC diesel. I have an '11 Larado 4x4 with the Pentastar, have 20 K on the clock, with no problems. It runs and drives great and has plenty of power. I would imagine the diesel would have plenty of torque and a great tow rating. I'm keeping my ears open!

berri

No Eldo, but when I was in high school a friend had one of those suicide door 57 Caddy's. I recall it being sort of a lavender color. The neat thing about the mid fifties was all of the color choices.

berri

The bailout was purely political payback to the UAW

The ironic thing is the Democrats ripped off creditors and preferred stockholders to favor the UAW, but a lot of those protected UAW workers probably actually vote Republican!

berri

I find it odd that the new GM did bring out some totally new Buick and Cadillac design, but seemed to forget about the bread and butter Chevy brand. I guess they did bring out the Cruze, but that's not an eye catcher really.

fintail

I think all Caddys of the period had normal doors, other than the Broughams. I bet those had even more potential colors than the 2 dozen probably offered on normal models.

berri

Yeah, I guess you're right because there weren't many Eldo's made and this one definitely didn't have enough chrome on it. I guess the Eldo just stuck in my mind from that vintage. Personally, I was a fan of the Imperial that year.

uplanderguy

Like it or not, the Malibu is an all-new car, as is the Sonic and the all-new Impala and Corvette are due next year....same with the all-new Silverado.

motorcity6

Just got the Dec. Motor Trend mag and the Malibu is a slug.. Great warranty, however it's gas appetite for a 4-banger is pathetic..Suspension is sloppy and acceleration is not too swift..The car did have dual exhausts, why??? Pricing for the loaded LTZ was $32K++..Our tax dollars at work..

Another great Chevy model is the Spark from S. Korea..

Maybe GM will introduce a Super Sport Malibu with a turbo-4banger for $35K++?????.

For the time being I will pass up any trips to the Chevy dealer on new car deals, however I do use their service dept for alignment on my W-body produced prior to the bailout..Our Chev dealer is a small family owned setup and I trust the alignment guy...40k miles since the first alignment and maybe it will never need another alignment..Rock steady/shake free at triple digits.

Happy Driver!!!!

uplanderguy

35 mpg is 'pathetic'? That seems a little, well...hyperbolic.

dieselone

35 mpg is 'pathetic'? That seems a little, well...hyperbolic.

It's not pathetic if that number is achievable. In the latest MT issue they have a family car comparison and the 2.5 Malibu returned the worst mileage of the bunch by nearly 5 mpg during their testing. They didn't have much good to say about it. The 'Bu was last in 6th place and the Fusion came in 3rd. IIRC the Passat and Accord were 1 and 2. They didn't have much good to say about the Camry either.

uplanderguy

I get 32-33 on the highway without even trying on my '11 Malibu. I'm happy with that for a car with the interior room it has.

Is the Fusion, the new Fusion? I gotta say, IMHO looking like a larger Focus isn't a good thing. I'm reminded of Chrysler making their larger cars look like their compacts in '62.

gagrice

So much for me getting a Jeep GC diesel.

Well it appears that the taxpayer bailed-out Chrysler is looking back and now considering cutting costs by shifting production of all Jeeps to China, which has a strong desire for Jeeps.

In a Bloomberg interview, Jeep's president said the automaker plans to restore Jeep production in China, suspended in 2009, and is considering making all Jeeps in China. "Fiat SpA, majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers' operations in the region," reported the business wire service.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/jeep-an-obama-favorite-looks-to-shift-production-t- o-china/article/2511703#.UI8Kl2fDCh0

dieselone

Yeah, the new fusion washing the comparison.

robr2

Important Words:

Is Considering

Eventually.

Companies are always considering doing things eventually. I highly doubt that Fiat would move all Jeep production to China - it would kill the brand here.

gagrice

There may have been a language issue. When he said all models he probably meant all the different Jeep models. Not all the production WW. It has now become a political issue in Ohio. Every word uttered in this campaign is fodder for the people to point fingers.

stever

Which is another reason we try to ignore that part of the media world. It's certainly easy enough to find places online that live for nothing else. Even the game comments at Sports Illustrated are full of mindless off-topic rambles political screed.

Luckily, with buying an American car, you can vote with your dollars.

robr2

There may have been a language issue.

I don't think it was a language issue - Mike Manley doesn't sound Italian to me. IMHO, it was a spin issue - especially a story coming from the the Washington Examiner.

stever

Let's just not go there, okay?

Thanks.

gagrice

Here it is straight from the big guy Marchionne.

To counter the severe slump in European sales, Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-t- arget-by-19-billion#p1

andres3

Well, as far as I'm concerned, Chysler has no where to go but up. So maybe Chinese and Italian Jeeps and Chryslers will show improvement over the USA made versions.

robr2

Great article but no mention of China there at all so it's not pertinent to your original posting.

Building Jeeps in Italy for export to North America is dependent on getting the tax rebate from the Italian government. The Euro is still too expensive vis a vis the Dollar to export without the tax break. Exporting from Europe would require either a price hike or a willingness to cut profit if the Italian government were to decline to give Fiat the rebate.

gagrice

From all the Bloomberg articles and different Fiat execs, it is hard to tell what they have in mind. If Fiat is bleeding red ink in Europe and have Italian factories, not producing profitably, they have to do something or go bankrupt. If Chrysler US is providing a little profit they cannot afford to sell. It sounds like Marchionne is thinking out loud, not considering the damage that can render to people that depend on the jobs he provides. It sounds like he does not have any cash to expand. And the Chinese are willing to partner up on building Jeeps for their market. That does make sense.

robr2

AFAIK, Marchionne is one to toss out lots of ideas to see what can work. He's not shy or politically correct when it comes time to making sure his company is profitable.

stever

After his stink with VW, I think you are on to something. Marchionne likes to climb into dens and poke hibernating bears on his vacations too I bet. :shades:

robr2

BTW, here is the Bloomberg article that was taken out of context by the Washington Examiner:

Chrysler, which entered an alliance with Turin, Italy-based Fiat as part of its U.S. government-backed bankruptcy, is relying on growth in China to counter weakness in Europe’s auto market. The automaker is targeting 500,000 annual sales outside North America by 2014, more than triple its overseas deliveries in 2009.

Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China.

Bloomberg Jeeps China

stever

"Ford reported a third-quarter record $2.2 billion in operating profit today with a net income of $1.6 billion and best-ever results for any quarter in North America which continues to be the financial backbone of the company.

Revenue was $32.1 billion for the quarter.

Pretax profits of $2.3 billion in North America more than made up for a $468 million pretax loss in Europe. Other regions were all in the black."

Ford earns $1.6 billion in 3Q, best-ever results in North America (Detroit Free Press)

Ford best keep hammering on those EU factories if they want to keep those European loses down.

GM reports tomorrow. If you missed it "On Monday, Chrysler reported a third-quarter profit of $381 million, up 80% from a year ago."

andres3

If they are smart, they'll put some of that profit into quality control and specifying more robust less failure-prone parts.

stever

I posted a link somewhere around here the other day that talked about Ford's testing and how they expect every part to last at least ten years. Ah, yeah, it was in Wired.

Sounds like they need more work on the My Touch integration to me; the parts and engineering are doing fine.

berri

I remember back around 2000 when Ford had the Quality Job 1 ad. It worked for awhile, but the reality didn't live up to the promise so people became jaded toward them. Of course, GM didn't take advantage of that opening.

lemko

Corvette = 1953
Impala = 1958
Malibu = 1964
Camaro = 1967

The Suburban nameplate is the oldest - in use since 1935.

The Steelers logo is based on an old logo used by United States Steel to promote steel itself.



The Steelers logo is based on the Steelmark logo created around 1962 and belonging to the American Iron and Steel Institute. The Steelmark was originally created for United States Steel Corporation to promote the attributes of steel: yellow lightens your work; orange brightens your leisure; and blue widens your world. The logo's meaning was later amended to represent the three materials used to produce steel: yellow for coal; orange for iron ore; and blue for steel scrap.