When you're dealing in the target market for a RWD cruiser like a Miata the target market most definitely cares about RWD vs FWD. It may be pointless at the power level those engines generate, but some people actually care.
Personally I'd prefer AWD with a slight RWD bias. But that's the Northeasterner in me.
"......The Cadillac ATS might be good, but it’s niche."
I'd call BS on that one.
I think the point that Gary was making was that GM's best non-truck/suv vehicles are all niche. The ATS is not even a big seller for Caddy in its first month. Toyota has the Camry and Honda has the Civic and Accord, but GM's best sedans are things like Malibu and Cruze. GM's current road to profitability is still paved with trucks and SUVs rather than a large turnaround in product diversification with excellent high volume vehicles in other segments, which means they are still vulnerable to the same gasoline and economy issues that they were before their last BK.
Cruze is probably the best sedan GM makes and it's far from perfect or class-leading. GM is also dealing with it's poor reputation, which may be hard to believe for the loyalists, but a lot of people would like the GM cars better just because they didn't have a GM/Chevy name on them if they were different brands.
I can't say one way or another, but I suspect the majority of Miata buyers, as well as those in the Solstice/Sky platform could care less about which axle drives the car.
FWD certainly hasn't had any detectable negative impact on the MINI buying crowd, and they sell tons of S turbocharged models, along with the JCW models.
In my limited exposure to Miata, Solstice and Sky owners, not one bought the car due to being RWD.
It would be interesting to see a survey from new Miata owners to see the top reasons they bought the car.
Since you left it out, I'll reiterate the downward slide of Miata sales during the same time period. Could it be the market for that type of car was drying up, not that people didn't want the GM's and bought Miatas instead?
It's very much possible that the market for that sort of car was shrinking drastically. It was never all that big in the first place when you get down to it, and Mazda owned it for years. Yet another reason for GM to get out of building Kappas: when they DO profit on cars they generally rely on relatively high volume to do so, as does Toyota and the others of similar size.
Unless I missed something, GM doesn't own or manage Mazda, so whatever happens at Mazda should have no bearing on GM.
The 2-seat roadster isn't now, and hasn't been in my 58 year lifetime, a significant requirement for any car company such as GM to have in order to be competitive. The Corvette is the closest exception, but GM could still do well without it. On the other hand, GM needs trucks in a bad way. Take them away, and GM's toast.
Now that you have clear evidence the kappa platform was a money loser,from the link posted a few postings back, you still can't accept the situation as it actually occurred.
Selling any product below actual cost is fine at first, in order to get market share, but it's unsustainable. The only question is how deep one's pockets are before they choke.
At some point, the plan has to show some way of selling product above cost. It's really just that simple.
I haven't seen any evidence, or for that matter, any claim that GM expected the platform to ever break even, much less make a profit. They hoped it would, but that's as far as it got.
Like I said earlier, $10 iPhones would sell tremendously well, but not for long.
And, since we all know iPhones would never sell for $10..,
If the true cost of manufacture for an iPhone is $200, and they sell for $195, the math still works in that it can't be sustained forever. It's a question of how deep pockets are.
Success is more than just sales figures, or who sold the most.
The Cruze is pretty successful, by almost every measure,
Who here thinks the same Cruze would be anywhere successful if it was priced $10K more per unit? That's what the Kappa cars needed to break even.
The Sky/Solstice sold the number of units they did simply because they sold at a sales price at a minimum of $10K/unit below cost. Sell them at true cost, and the sales figures would have been much, much lower.
Add to that the Kappa models were being manufactured in the 21st century, using 1970 manufacturing philosophy, clearly shows that, in this particular case, GM was never really in the game for the long term.
What I'd agree on is that Caddy's traditional bread and butter customers have been people like lemko, people looking for a traditional, full sized luxury sedan. The ATS obviously doen't fit into that category.
However, somehow Caddy has to get those (A4, 3 serices, C class) buyers into it's showroom, so it can expand sales. That is a HUGE (relatively speaking) market for Caddy to tap into. The "compact sports sedan" maybe a "niche" market, (just like a full sized SUV is in a "niche" market) within the entire industry, but for Caddy to expand, it needs todays 25-40 yr old buyers to go to their showroom to replace tomorrow's 50-65 yr olds buying the XTS.
However, somehow Caddy has to get those (A4, 3 serices, C class) buyers into it's showroom, so it can expand sales. That is a HUGE (relatively speaking) market for Caddy to tap into. The "compact sports sedan" maybe a "niche" market, (just like a full sized SUV is in a "niche" market) within the entire industry, but for Caddy to expand, it needs todays 25-40 yr old buyers to go to their showroom to replace tomorrow's 50-65 yr olds buying the XTS.
Oh, I totally agree. GM spent like, 30 years saying it couldn't make money on small cars while BMW and Audi and Mercedes and even VW brought premium small cars to the US market and owned that niche. In 1998 I bought a new Audi A4 and although I did look at the US makes, the closest thing that I could find in that segment was the Catera (not that small and not that good). So I really applaud the ATS and I hope it is excellent and develops a good reputation. It has the potential to help Caddy's reputation.
Still, Caddy has the GM reputation and while that's great for the loyalists, it's a negative for most of the Audi/BMW/Mercedes buyer. That's going to be a hurdle to overcome. It will take a lot of time and good product to turn it around.
Still, GM as the #1 or near #1 automaker should have top or near-top vehicles in many segments, and they are still not there in the family sedan market which is the heart of the high volume segment. The new Malibu is not exactly a hit that's going to get foreign nameplate buyers into Chevy showrooms. Many people argue that the new Malibu isn't even better than the previous one. That's not a winning strategy and they can't rely on trucks and SUVs forever.
It will be the ONLY car for sale in the US with a US Domestic Parts Content over 90%! 4 other Toyotas are among the VERY few who have 75% US Domestic Parts Content or better.
I think the Toyota Matrix is OVER 90%, but is assembled in Canada.....
I think it has to do with the algorithm used to determine content, which includes volume produced by model.
Avalons don't sell in the numbers that the Camry does, so even though the actual US content may be higher per unit in the Avalon, so many more Camrys are sold that it overwhelms the Avalon.
Key points: - Toyota sales way up - Recalls still an issue - Many models have been refreshed - Toyota is making a boatload of money in the US - US made Toyotas increasingly being exported to other countries - Expansion of US manufacturing and locally-sourced parts
".....GM spent like, 30 years saying it couldn't make money on small cars while BMW and Audi and Mercedes and even VW brought premium small cars to the US market and owned that niche."
Let's not forget that for 30 years BMW, Audi and Mercedes also just brought their products from Europe to sell here (an oversimplification, but close to the truth), whereas GM had nothing. Notice the post about 195,000 3 series being sold here in 6 months. GM used to sell that many LeSabres!!!! that is because that market (small cars) has become even more important to the US market, while big cars have gone the way of the dinosaur.
Let's not forget that for 30 years BMW, Audi and Mercedes also just brought their products from Europe to sell here (an oversimplification, but close to the truth), whereas GM had nothing.
Then as a global company, I don't understand why the world's #1 automaker couldn't be successful in a segment where VW, Audi, BMW were. Or at least had something making a try.
My Ingolstadt built vehicle from Germany is running too fine and well (knock on wood) at about 94K miles and counting.
I'm still waiting for Audi to cost me as much as a '95 Dodge did, not even counting inflation in this comparison to Dodge's advantage.
Unless my car starts to behave like a Dodge all of a sudden, I see no reason or logic that could compel me to buy something made in the USA for my next vehicle.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
When you consider the world market, yes. But Caddy doesn't have the world reputation to compete in the world market yet. It needs to earn it. Boats like the STS and DTS and Escalade didn't help, they don't like boats in Europe, and Europe is key if you're going to sell European-style sport tourers.
From what I've seen (car-wise) in my visits to Europe over the last decade, I agree... Land yachts don't do particularly well in Europe, at least, what we once called Western Europe.
I do think that the ATS is a serious attempt at creating a luxury performance sedan, and it's Cadillac's best attempt so far to get into that market segment.
I'll grant that the American manufacturers are pretty darn good at engineering for failures right after the 3 year 36,000 mile warranty expires
that is an a#$)?&ne statement. All of the GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicles I have owned or have driven have been very reliable to 200K miles and beyond. I doubt your Audi will make that mileage.
that is an a#$)?&ne statement. All of the GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicles I have owned or have driven have been very reliable to 200K miles and beyond. I doubt your Audi will make that mileage.
There are any number of anecdotal stories to support any person's view. The statistics are what is important, and F/C/GM have had much loss of customers which can't be due to their being thrilled with their products. More than the number of H and T customers going the other direction.
In my experience with the German makes, the engines and trannys do fine to high mileage; it's the accessories and electronics that become huge money pits, together with the cost of parts.
My 98 leSabre with 190,000 + miles is scooting along just fine. My 03 leSabre is great at 140,000. My 2008 Cobalt is a fine car.
Somewhere I missed the forum's rule that only bad things can be said about GM cars on this topic.
It certainly does no good to continually rag on GMs after a few 1000 times of posting the same stuff. It's time to get on to the present and the future.
It certainly does no good to continually rag on GMs after a few 1000 times of posting the same stuff. It's time to get on to the present and the future.
For the present, there's a post on the latest Malibu review in the GM forum. Not looking good. What were they thinking?
It's a fair question: why only keep it 3 years. The answer is: had to travel for an overseas assignment. Returned four years later with more money and wanted to try something more expensive, so bought a Lex, but it doesn't match Buick in the feel and roominess. Regarding the reliability: had zero problems with our Buick assembled in Mexico. With Lex (Canadian assembly) the rain sensor never worked right and dealership can't fix it. No biggie as I can just use the manual windshield wipers switch. Otherwise reliability in Lex is good as well.
Trunk lid rubbing on fascia: Not good, but is it as bad as fuel fumes coming into the cabin and other assoted maladies associated with 40K miles of Sonata driving? Meh, that stuff's OK.
No one knows of course, but I'd say a Malibu won't have an oil leak and gas fumes in the car in 40K miles. And that's been my experience with two 2002's, one 2005, a 2008, and a 2011 Chevy.
Funny that CR is very complimentary of the Malibu's interior. Of course, it is cool/mainstream to rag on GM. The smaller rear seat area does give me pause, but then our current Malibu is on a 112-inch wheelbase, which was two inches longer than the same year Impala.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Trunk lid rubbing on fascia: Not good, but is it as bad as fuel fumes coming into the cabin and other assoted maladies associated with 40K miles of Sonata driving? Meh, that stuff's OK.
IMHO the way to help GM is not to laugh at the issues with other makes, it's to make sure that the GM vehicles are excellent. And that's clearly not happening in the new Malibu - regardless of the issues of other makes.
At least you got the previous Malibu which may be a better car.
I ask with genuine sincerity...why do people gloss over things about the Sonata and rag on the Malibu? I mean, seriously. I consider myself very logical and frankly, it's illogical to me.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I ask with genuine sincerity...why do people gloss over things about the Sonata and rag on the Malibu? I mean, seriously. I consider myself very logical and frankly, it's illogical to me.
I'm not glossing over the Sonata - this is a GM forum. And GM is a US nameplate owned by us right now. So I have a bit more interest in GM than Hyundai. I'd like to see GM get it together, and it is dismaying how slowly they are moving. This is not the mark of a company that is fighting for its life, and it shows.
But isn't it worth comparing GM products to the competition's? That is why I ask about the glossing over of serious Sonata stuff here. It's as if perfection is required of GM, but sloppiness of the other guys'?--eh, that's no big deal.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I will admit I don't look at other forums about new cars, other than this one and more often, the 'GM New Models' forum. I figure, why p*** on somebody's Wheaties by being a 'nattering nabob of negativisim' as Spiro Agnew once said?
But that's just me.
I pay my share of taxes, but I don't honestly see myself as a 'shareholder of GM'.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I ask with genuine sincerity...why do people gloss over things about the Sonata and rag on the Malibu? I mean, seriously. I consider myself very logical and frankly, it's illogical to me.
The answer is quite simple. We the US tax payers have about $80 billion invested in the Government motors and would like to see them put out a decent product for our investment. If I was a part owner in Hyundai I would be equally concerned. That said, our neighbor has a 2009 Cobalt coupe. Every time it rains she tapes a plastic tarp over the trunk. I asked her why the other day. She said since it was new the trunk leaks and soaks the carpet. Then it starts to smell bad in the cabin. The dealer has not been able to fix the problem. After several trips and loss of her vehicle for several days she just did what she had to. I can identify as GMC was Never able to fix my air leak around the door on my Sierra hybrid PU truck. Sadly I think Buick has maintained a decent reputation for building their cars over the last two decades. They were dragged into the mire with all the substandard brands in the GM lineup.
But isn't it worth comparing GM products to the competition's?
Yes, but the other makes aren't fighting after BK. I just don't want to see us give GM a pass because "all other makes have issues, too", when we are trying to see GM *GAIN* prestige and new business from buyers who might not otherwise consider GM.
Sure other makes have problems - but the new Malibu, in the heart of the family sedan market - with such poor showing? IMHO there's not really a very good excuse not to have an excellent product.
I rag as much about my American made Sequoia, though it is a lot better than my last American made GM Vehicle. My Mexican and Canadian made GM vehicles were better built. So naturally I blame the UAW workers for shoddy workmanship. :P
Comments
Personally I'd prefer AWD with a slight RWD bias. But that's the Northeasterner in me.
I'd call BS on that one.
I think the point that Gary was making was that GM's best non-truck/suv vehicles are all niche. The ATS is not even a big seller for Caddy in its first month. Toyota has the Camry and Honda has the Civic and Accord, but GM's best sedans are things like Malibu and Cruze. GM's current road to profitability is still paved with trucks and SUVs rather than a large turnaround in product diversification with excellent high volume vehicles in other segments, which means they are still vulnerable to the same gasoline and economy issues that they were before their last BK.
Cruze is probably the best sedan GM makes and it's far from perfect or class-leading. GM is also dealing with it's poor reputation, which may be hard to believe for the loyalists, but a lot of people would like the GM cars better just because they didn't have a GM/Chevy name on them if they were different brands.
I can't say one way or another, but I suspect the majority of Miata buyers, as well as those in the Solstice/Sky platform could care less about which axle drives the car.
FWD certainly hasn't had any detectable negative impact on the MINI buying crowd, and they sell tons of S turbocharged models, along with the JCW models.
In my limited exposure to Miata, Solstice and Sky owners, not one bought the car due to being RWD.
It would be interesting to see a survey from new Miata owners to see the top reasons they bought the car.
From Wikipedia...Combined production of Solstice/Sky/Opel GT:
2006-21,273
2007-42,970
2008-34,100
2009-9,305
2010-30
So, production peaked in 2007 and was already on the decline well before the Chapter 11 in June, 2009.
Still, that seems like quite a loss per unit, seeing as how so many components were shared by other GM products...
Look at the link and see some of the shared component specifics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Solstice
Come on, guys.
2006: Miata - 17K Solstice - 21K
2007: Miata - 15K Solstice/Sky - 40K
2008: Miata - 11K Solstice/Sky - 29K
2009: Miata - 8K Solstice/Sky - 9K (last production year)
The 2-seat roadster isn't now, and hasn't been in my 58 year lifetime, a significant requirement for any car company such as GM to have in order to be competitive. The Corvette is the closest exception, but GM could still do well without it. On the other hand, GM needs trucks in a bad way. Take them away, and GM's toast.
Now that you have clear evidence the kappa platform was a money loser,from the link posted a few postings back, you still can't accept the situation as it actually occurred.
Selling any product below actual cost is fine at first, in order to get market share, but it's unsustainable. The only question is how deep one's pockets are before they choke.
At some point, the plan has to show some way of selling product above cost. It's really just that simple.
I haven't seen any evidence, or for that matter, any claim that GM expected the platform to ever break even, much less make a profit. They hoped it would, but that's as far as it got.
Like I said earlier, $10 iPhones would sell tremendously well, but not for long.
And, since we all know iPhones would never sell for $10..,
If the true cost of manufacture for an iPhone is $200, and they sell for $195, the math still works in that it can't be sustained forever. It's a question of how deep pockets are.
It's the "we need a bigger truck" syndrome.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/search/label/Entry%20Luxury%20Car%20Sales?max-resul- ts=5
Comparing sales performance and trends with the Solstice/Sky's direct competition has no bearing on what GM does?
This conversation has just officially jumped the shark so I'll close.
Success is more than just sales figures, or who sold the most.
The Cruze is pretty successful, by almost every measure,
Who here thinks the same Cruze would be anywhere successful if it was priced $10K more per unit? That's what the Kappa cars needed to break even.
The Sky/Solstice sold the number of units they did simply because they sold at a sales price at a minimum of $10K/unit below cost. Sell them at true cost, and the sales figures would have been much, much lower.
Add to that the Kappa models were being manufactured in the 21st century, using 1970 manufacturing philosophy, clearly shows that, in this particular case, GM was never really in the game for the long term.
However, somehow Caddy has to get those (A4, 3 serices, C class) buyers into it's showroom, so it can expand sales. That is a HUGE (relatively speaking) market for Caddy to tap into. The "compact sports sedan" maybe a "niche" market, (just like a full sized SUV is in a "niche" market) within the entire industry, but for Caddy to expand, it needs todays 25-40 yr old buyers to go to their showroom to replace tomorrow's 50-65 yr olds buying the XTS.
Oh, I totally agree. GM spent like, 30 years saying it couldn't make money on small cars while BMW and Audi and Mercedes and even VW brought premium small cars to the US market and owned that niche. In 1998 I bought a new Audi A4 and although I did look at the US makes, the closest thing that I could find in that segment was the Catera (not that small and not that good). So I really applaud the ATS and I hope it is excellent and develops a good reputation. It has the potential to help Caddy's reputation.
Still, Caddy has the GM reputation and while that's great for the loyalists, it's a negative for most of the Audi/BMW/Mercedes buyer. That's going to be a hurdle to overcome. It will take a lot of time and good product to turn it around.
Still, GM as the #1 or near #1 automaker should have top or near-top vehicles in many segments, and they are still not there in the family sedan market which is the heart of the high volume segment. The new Malibu is not exactly a hit that's going to get foreign nameplate buyers into Chevy showrooms. Many people argue that the new Malibu isn't even better than the previous one. That's not a winning strategy and they can't rely on trucks and SUVs forever.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=725676
Add the numbers that Audi and MB sell in comparable models, and you have a really large niche. Certainly, there's room for the ATS.
It's a very lucrative market segment...
I suspect GM will only get one chance to prove itself with the ATS, and I hope they get it right. The ATS looks as if it has the potential...
It will be the ONLY car for sale in the US with a US Domestic Parts Content over 90%!
4 other Toyotas are among the VERY few who have 75% US Domestic Parts Content or better.
I think the Toyota Matrix is OVER 90%, but is assembled in Canada.....
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=ami&story=amMade0611-
Notice the section on the labor costs of a vehicle, and the serious differences in labor costs between the US, Canada & Mexico.
No wonder so many manufacturers like to build NA market vehicles in Mexico...
So I'm not sure why it was excluded......
BD
Avalons don't sell in the numbers that the Camry does, so even though the actual US content may be higher per unit in the Avalon, so many more Camrys are sold that it overwhelms the Avalon.
It's not an exact science, by any means....
Key points:
- Toyota sales way up
- Recalls still an issue
- Many models have been refreshed
- Toyota is making a boatload of money in the US
- US made Toyotas increasingly being exported to other countries
- Expansion of US manufacturing and locally-sourced parts
Let's not forget that for 30 years BMW, Audi and Mercedes also just brought their products from Europe to sell here (an oversimplification, but close to the truth), whereas GM had nothing. Notice the post about 195,000 3 series being sold here in 6 months. GM used to sell that many LeSabres!!!! that is because that market (small cars) has become even more important to the US market, while big cars have gone the way of the dinosaur.
Then as a global company, I don't understand why the world's #1 automaker couldn't be successful in a segment where VW, Audi, BMW were. Or at least had something making a try.
That was worldwide, not just in the US. If so, the 3 series would be outselling the Camry and Accord.
But even if it's "all that," it still suffers from being severely overpriced.
How are you going to win over buyers 25 to 40 with a $40K+ car? Guess they are focusing on the 1%.
I'm still waiting for Audi to cost me as much as a '95 Dodge did, not even counting inflation in this comparison to Dodge's advantage.
Unless my car starts to behave like a Dodge all of a sudden, I see no reason or logic that could compel me to buy something made in the USA for my next vehicle.
Looks like the combined sales of BMW, MB and Audi 3-series comparables will easily exceed the 1 million mark in 2012.
That looks like a pretty lucrative "niche" to me.
I do think that the ATS is a serious attempt at creating a luxury performance sedan, and it's Cadillac's best attempt so far to get into that market segment.
Japanese brands rush to add N. American plants (Detroit Free Press)
Insane!
I'll grant that the American manufacturers are pretty darn good at engineering for failures right after the 3 year 36,000 mile warranty expires.
that is an a#$)?&ne statement. All of the GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicles I have owned or have driven have been very reliable to 200K miles and beyond. I doubt your Audi will make that mileage.
There are any number of anecdotal stories to support any person's view. The statistics are what is important, and F/C/GM have had much loss of customers which can't be due to their being thrilled with their products. More than the number of H and T customers going the other direction.
In my experience with the German makes, the engines and trannys do fine to high mileage; it's the accessories and electronics that become huge money pits, together with the cost of parts.
My 98 leSabre with 190,000 + miles is scooting along just fine. My 03 leSabre is great at 140,000. My 2008 Cobalt is a fine car.
Somewhere I missed the forum's rule that only bad things can be said about GM cars on this topic.
It certainly does no good to continually rag on GMs after a few 1000 times of posting the same stuff. It's time to get on to the present and the future.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
For the present, there's a post on the latest Malibu review in the GM forum. Not looking good. What were they thinking?
Regarding the reliability: had zero problems with our Buick assembled in Mexico. With Lex (Canadian assembly) the rain sensor never worked right and dealership can't fix it. No biggie as I can just use the manual windshield wipers switch. Otherwise reliability in Lex is good as well.
I think they were thinking they had to shrink it to make room for the Impala: the two were pretty much the same size.
No one knows of course, but I'd say a Malibu won't have an oil leak and gas fumes in the car in 40K miles. And that's been my experience with two 2002's, one 2005, a 2008, and a 2011 Chevy.
Funny that CR is very complimentary of the Malibu's interior. Of course, it is cool/mainstream to rag on GM. The smaller rear seat area does give me pause, but then our current Malibu is on a 112-inch wheelbase, which was two inches longer than the same year Impala.
IMHO the way to help GM is not to laugh at the issues with other makes, it's to make sure that the GM vehicles are excellent. And that's clearly not happening in the new Malibu - regardless of the issues of other makes.
At least you got the previous Malibu which may be a better car.
I'm not glossing over the Sonata - this is a GM forum. And GM is a US nameplate owned by us right now. So I have a bit more interest in GM than Hyundai. I'd like to see GM get it together, and it is dismaying how slowly they are moving. This is not the mark of a company that is fighting for its life, and it shows.
But this one is about American cars so it's okay to talk about buying Korean cars or whatever. You don't even have to mention GM. :shades:
Plenty of folks are ragging on Kias and Hyundais, if not the Sonata itself. The over-inflated mpg claims to be specific.
But that's just me.
I pay my share of taxes, but I don't honestly see myself as a 'shareholder of GM'.
The answer is quite simple. We the US tax payers have about $80 billion invested in the Government motors and would like to see them put out a decent product for our investment. If I was a part owner in Hyundai I would be equally concerned. That said, our neighbor has a 2009 Cobalt coupe. Every time it rains she tapes a plastic tarp over the trunk. I asked her why the other day. She said since it was new the trunk leaks and soaks the carpet. Then it starts to smell bad in the cabin. The dealer has not been able to fix the problem. After several trips and loss of her vehicle for several days she just did what she had to. I can identify as GMC was Never able to fix my air leak around the door on my Sierra hybrid PU truck. Sadly I think Buick has maintained a decent reputation for building their cars over the last two decades. They were dragged into the mire with all the substandard brands in the GM lineup.
Yes, but the other makes aren't fighting after BK. I just don't want to see us give GM a pass because "all other makes have issues, too", when we are trying to see GM *GAIN* prestige and new business from buyers who might not otherwise consider GM.
Sure other makes have problems - but the new Malibu, in the heart of the family sedan market - with such poor showing? IMHO there's not really a very good excuse not to have an excellent product.
Then maybe you should, because if you're a taxpayer then you are also a shareholder.