Great article lemko.....I can hear the flushing sound. Unless the Japanese have opened up their market with free trade I haven't heard about your price on a 92' STS sounds about right on a STS eport being sold in Japan.
I looked up the numbers on the original Toyota Celsior (LS400) and it went for 4.55m to 6.2m yen in October 1989, which was $31,600 to $43,150 at the time (143.7 yen per dollar).
Sorry, I've seen that level-field article so many times I honestly skimmed over it and just realized I missed Acura on it.
You have my apology....However Honda/Acura does have some models not made here in the States which means they can't wave the all-american flag quite yet.
Millions can't find jobs, have no health insurance and struggle to make ends meet, working minimum wage jobs. "What's going on?" to repeat a refrain from soul singer Marvin Gaye.
There is a growing personal and economic despair of tens of millions of Americans who watch helplessly as their communities are plunged into poverty by the flight of manufacturing jobs. Their families and neighborhoods have become torn apart by neglect and indiffence. They will eventually lose hope that America is a place where they have a future. Whole sections of former manufacturing centers like Ohio resemble the third world with boarded-up storefronts, dilapidated houses, potholed streets and crumbling schools. The end of the world is no longer an abstraction to many Americans.
We as a nation have turned our backs on the working class. We stand passively and watch an equally pernicious assault on the middle class. Anything that can be put on software, from architecture,to engineering to finance, will soon be handed to workers overseas , who will be paid a third or less of what their American counterparts will receive and who will, like 45 million Americans, will have no access to health insurance or benefits.
The top 1% of American households have more wealth than the bottom 90% combined. This figure alone should terrify all who care about our democracy. The people are being left out to dry by a government held hostage to corporations - one that is willing to tolerate obscene corporate profits.
LEMKO, I couldn't agree with you more lemko, and is why I've always have had such a great deal of respect for you pal.
What makes it worst lemko, is foreign company's are on capital hill and have a controlling interest in our country. The Dubai ports issue brought some major attention to how bad it's gotten. I watch Lou Dobbs, report on middle class issues and he turns 5 shades red sometimes when talking about them. A few weeks ago in fact he reported on foreign governments buying up infrastructure. The Chinese are buying up highways because our government doesn't want to spend tax-payer money to keep the maintence up on them. He almost cursed on live TV, because he was so outraged and angry at our politicians.
I really hope that in 2008' that americans really pay attention to politicians and where they stand instead of the rhetoric. Elections have became a popularity contest and many important domestic issues have been overlooked. The person I'm going to support has one skeleton in his closet and that is he supported H-1B visa's which I don't fully support.
I can go back home to Michigan, and see empty factory' s. One particular company built a brand new facility and never used it as the federal government and private sectors canceled contracts with the company right before it was complete. Hundreds of applicants were sent a letter they wouldn't be getting a job.
I honestly feel we are going through some bad times right now and the proof is not only showing up in the automobile sector but also in the service sectors. If people that worked at the local factory making a good middle class income loses his/her job then the impact affects the local community. I don't mind the Japanese, and other foreign entity's coming over to our country and opening up knew facility's but I do think we need to do a better job at protecting the all ready established institutions here. I see nothing wrong with a law that says if you want to sell it here, you need to build it here with "X" amount of domestic content. Lemko, could you imagine how many jobs that would create along with a universal healthcare system ????
I'm not saying that's the ultimate fix or answer pal but something needs to be done to not only save the domestic car company's but to strengthen our manufacturing base because I feel a total service economy won't work because as we've seen those jobs are being sent over sea's also. I know you've called up people needing service like on your computer and the guy on the other end is in India.
I do hope the foreign company's keep moving jobs over here and buying parts from american suppliers and get americanized but we also need more federal involvement to relieve the financial burdens the big 3 are feeling. I think with the right policy's put in place we can right this sinking ship. I'd love the day when I could buy a Lexus LS 460 that has 80% domestic content and is assembled in Pennsylvania or a Ford Fusion that has 85% domestic content and is made in Idaho, or a Chevy HHR that's made in Oklahoma, or a Acura RL, that's made Wisconsin, or a Mitsubishi EVO-X, made right here in the Texas Panhandle in Amarillo, you get my drift. That's buying american cars and that's what it means to me.
I wouldn't mind an American-made Lexus LS460 made right here in North Philadelphia - another once powerful manufacturing center that is currently boarded-up and dilapidated. North Philadelphia was once home to many well-known brands - Botany 500, Stetson Hats, Baldwin Locomotives, Philco, Merck & Co, not to mention hundreds of smaller manufacturers of machinery, steel products, and apparel.
NA market doesn't matter. What matters is profitability. Having 100% of the market isn't going to help if you are losing money on every one. Contrast GM to BMW, which has a tiny market share, but actually makes money on everything they sell. I would take being profitable over being the biggest.
Never really left rocky - just less time to post so I just drop in every once in a while and try to catch up.
But the way things seem to be going, I could miss a couple of months in here and not REALLY miss anything.....everybody keeps going around and around and around in circles. It's like lifting the lid on the washing machine in the middle of a spin cycle - all we're doing in here is chasing our tails.
Not only is it boring but I'm getting dizzy. Problem is very few folks are really interested in what the OTHER guy is trying to say; simply trying to score points like it's a freakin' football game. And I'm as guilty of that as anybody else in here ; so I benched myself for a bit - only posting occasional tidbits in here just so I don't get completely rusty.
BTW; on our little sidebet, I caught wind of something said by Ed Peper (general manager of Chevy) regarding Camaro powertrains to the effect that there would be a high perf V8 option and TWO V6 options (one for economy/price and a different high performance V6). No mention of a 'base' V8 with an optional high-performance V8.
So, it seems as though the 'standard' V8 may very well be the LS2. I'm gonna hold off until I see something a bit more 'official' but I think you're closer to naming your preference in brewski's than I am.....
understood the fanaticism about "market share", especially at the expense of profitability...
If an automaker is shooting with everything they have to get say, a 35% market share, and shooting for that goal alone, something else is being sacrificed, and the usual suspects are profitability and/or quality...
And yet, it is profitability and/or quality that will keep them in business next year, whereas nobody EVER purchased a vehicle simply because a company had XX% market share...
It may give bragging rights to the one who gains that market share, but anyone with half a brain would never buy anything based on market share alone...
Especially if the companies with the LOWER market share have more repeat buyers, better quality, and real dividends for their stockholders at the end of the year...
Well, for those who don't know already, you are owned by forgien countries. Like China, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Japan, Germany, South Korea to name a few. We are a debtor nation folks. Because we have sent so much of our wealth overseas over the last 30 years with no education to our population of what it really means... I'll give you one hint. Get out on google and see how much china owns in T-bills.. :surprise:
Ford 500 isn't selling so ford is changing its name to Taurus Ford Freelander also isn't selling so ford is changing name to Taurus X. The sad part is there are people that will buy these vehicles because of the new name.
when I was in Detroit, where EVERYONE is familiar with the auto industry, even little old ladies on canes and crutches, I somehow remember a man in his 60s telling me that he would only own a Ford product like the Maverick, because of its inherent built-in quality (back when American cars were approaching junk even as a boat anchor) but could NEVER bring himself to buy a Mercury Comet because they were poorly made and had no quality whatsoever...if ever there were two cars that truly looked identical except for minor grille and taillight changes (maybe speedometer, too), these two cars looked the same even to non-car people...
My reason for bringing that up is that all they have to do is change the name, and many folks who owned a Taurus years ago and were pleased with it will be very happy to have a chanve to, once again, buy a new Taurus and make themselves happy...
To us automotive mavens here at edmunds, we laugh and mock a simple name change because we see right thru it...but when 16 million cars (plus or minus) are sold yearly, there are many folks who cannot tell a V6 from a V8, do not know what a turbocharger is, but can tell red from yellow from blue, and as long as it comes in blue, they will buy it, esp if it reminds them of their Taurus of years back...
To you and me the name change is an insult...but then I never bought a pet rock or a chia pet, but they sold millions...hence, PT Barnum still lives among us, and he is working for FoMoCo as we speak...:):):):):)
The decision by Ford to rename the Five Hundred the Taurus is one of the stupidest things I've heard coming out of the auto industry in a long time. The most recent generation of Taurus was synonymous with rental cars and poor resale value.
The Five Hundred is a good car! Granted the styling is bland (it's certainly not ugly), but it's huge, safe, and other than the mediocre power, has gotten solid reviews.
Ford just needs to put 3.5 engine in the Five Hundred instead of the 3.0 with 203 horses.
ford dealer here has had new ford 500 die on test drive, I took one for test drive and it was garbage , brand new car and check engine light wouldn't shut off and pulled really hard to the right every time the brakes where applied.
While I would never own one, I like the 500. I'm sure ever new car dealer has had a few cars die on them during test drives. While I was Accord hunting, there was a brand new EX-L NAV 5MT that wouldn't start. Granted the car had been sitting on the lot forever because no one wanted a NAV 5MT Accord, but that's beside the point.
Over here in Europe we've seen Daewoo cars now being re-badged as Chevrolet with their own Chevy showrooms, (usually attached to a Vauxhall showroom. Vauxhall is main GM brand in UK = Opel in Europe). Quite why that was done is a mystery. Chevrolet really has no history here - other than for us petrol heads and we don't buy Daewoo's. So, could this have been a cynical ploy to try and regain the lead from Toyota ? Daewoo now = Chevy = GM sales ? 'Time the General stopped faffing about and addressed his real problems..........poor design, poor execution, poor materials, too many brands/models.variants and overmanning. Some dear soul in an earlier reply suggested that it was time for your government to help out GM. Why for heavens sake ?
The Japanese manufacturers are in the ascendant now but, the ones to watch are the Chinese. Just scratching about at present but they have a potentially huge internal market that will give them a real edge on economies of scale. Want to do your children a real favour ? Get them to start learning Mandarin.
Yeah....The Chinese are gonna rule the world one day. But then again, a mediocum of wealth reaching the masses there may collapse that communist government...Wait wrong topic. My bad.
GM wants to make Chevrolet a global nameplate...rebadging Daewoo's as Chevrolets will enable GM to compete at the bottom of the market, while "protecting" Vauxhall and Opel.
While in the United Kingdom, I watched an episode of Top Gear where the reviewers were performing some sort of ridiculous test with a Chevrolet Lacetti (spelling?). I quickly got the impression that the Lacetti, and Chevrolets in general, are not looked upon favorably by the British.
I would not rush to learn Mandarin, altho one should keep their eyes open...in the 1980s, when Japan was buying up everything, (aka, Japan, Inc.), the word was for everyone to learn Japanese as we would eventually become a virtual colony...and then 1989, Poof!!!, the Nikkei Dow fell from 40,000 to around 17,000, Japan liquidated many of their US holding for 10 cents on the dollar, and it took over a decade and a half for them to come back in terms of national wealth, altho their auto industry continues to grow here...
While I do not wish economic hardship on anyone, when (not if) the US suffers their next major recession, and when unemployment breaks 10%, I truly believe that the Chinese will suffer 10 times as much as WalMart will suffer, and makers like Mercedes, Audi, Lexus and Infiniti will suffer greatly...hence, while learning Mandarin, like any foreign language, is always a worthy endeavor, I question whether China will really own the world, because their entire economy's growth is a reflection of ours...when we sneeze, I believe they will suffer the flu and pneumonia, from an economic standpoint...
Spanish may be better, simply because the foreigners you will most likely interact with over here will be Hispanic, legal or illegal...
China already owns the U.S. Look at the treasury bonds they own already and how they prop up our debt. We as Americans are so quick to sell each other out to the highest bidder.. :sick:
T-Bills are sold on the open market. Anyone can buy them. It's the nature of capitalism.
This flip side of this is that the China's trade with us is protected from currency fluctuations. In addition by having the US Gov't owe them so much money the one trading partner the Chinese never want to see go belly up is the US economy.
Condisder if you lent your neighbor next door a $1000 a month every month and now he owes you $100,000. He pays you back like clockwork and pays you $10,000 a year in interest. He's never missed a payment in his life. That's a pretty sweet deal for you. If your neighbor wants to borrow another $5000 next month you'd probably step right up and try to outbid the other neighbors to get that new note.
But you certainly don't want anything bad to befall your neighbor...there goes your $100 Grand and all the interest as well. You ( China ) want your neighbor ( US ) to stay very very healthy.
Kd, It works in theory but what happens when we can't afford to borrow anymore because we can't make our bills ????? This is econ 101 and here in the U.S. banks will let consumers borrow more than they can pay back and they (banks) know this.
This is more than theory, rockylee, this is reality. We are a debtor nation. The only way to for a nation to get out of debt is the same as for any family... .. work more/harder and make more money and pay off all the bills, or .. stop charging things and pay cash.
If this latter choice is taken then most of our military industrial complex gets shut down, because it generates income only when it sells armaments to other countries, generally it only consumes income. The Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard and Port and Border Patrols all get laid off....as well as all the workers making products for the military. Only the workers making military products for sale to other countries can keep their jobs.
or, .. to fund the the necessary defense projects then, like any family, ya gotta cut the money going to tuition and entertainment and vacations.
If a family makes $50000 net each year it can't spend $60000, otherwise it has to borrow $10000 from the bank or a family member.
A reporter with a national newspaper is hoping to talk to consumers who currently are or just recently purchased a new vehicle and factored or will factor in where the car was made (i.e. made in the USA). Please reply to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Friday, March 16, 2007 with your daytime contact info.
Or, since the Constitution mandates that one of the few Constitutional functions of the federal gov't is to "provide for the common defense", maybe we could stop sending so much money to people who refuse to work, let them go hungry, then they WILL do the jobs that Americans are unwilling to do, so they can eat, and maybe balance the budget and pay back some debt...
Compassion may be nice, but it is not a Constitutional function of the gov't, and I am sick and tired of working to support my family and theirs...and, as long as Medicaid (welfare) covers Viagra, we seem to be getting more of theirs...it would seem to me that if every welfare recipient was impotent, it would seem like poetic justice, don't you think???
Comments
I don't think that includes the might Acura.
Rocky
Rocky
Let me know if you have trouble understanding it, I'll explain it to ya.
I rest my case...
Can you provide a link showing they quit tariffing american vehicals ???? :confuse:
Thanx,
Rocky
P.S. please post your answer in the "Tariffs to Help Domestic Manufacturers? " forum so we can get this one back on topic
Sorry, I've seen that level-field article so many times I honestly skimmed over it and just realized I missed Acura on it.
You have my apology....However Honda/Acura does have some models not made here in the States which means they can't wave the all-american flag quite yet.
Rocky
There is a growing personal and economic despair of tens of millions of Americans who watch helplessly as their communities are plunged into poverty by the flight of manufacturing jobs. Their families and neighborhoods have become torn apart by neglect and indiffence. They will eventually lose hope that America is a place where they have a future. Whole sections of former manufacturing centers like Ohio resemble the third world with boarded-up storefronts, dilapidated houses, potholed streets and crumbling schools. The end of the world is no longer an abstraction to many Americans.
We as a nation have turned our backs on the working class. We stand passively and watch an equally pernicious assault on the middle class. Anything that can be put on software, from architecture,to engineering to finance, will soon be handed to workers overseas , who will be paid a third or less of what their American counterparts will receive and who will, like 45 million Americans, will have no access to health insurance or benefits.
The top 1% of American households have more wealth than the bottom 90% combined. This figure alone should terrify all who care about our democracy. The people are being left out to dry by a government held hostage to corporations - one that is willing to tolerate obscene corporate profits.
What makes it worst lemko, is foreign company's are on capital hill and have a controlling interest in our country.
The Dubai ports issue brought some major attention to how bad it's gotten. I watch Lou Dobbs, report on middle class issues and he turns 5 shades red sometimes when talking about them. A few weeks ago in fact he reported on foreign governments buying up infrastructure. The Chinese are buying up highways because our government doesn't want to spend tax-payer money to keep the maintence up on them. He almost cursed on live TV, because he was so outraged and angry at our politicians.
I really hope that in 2008' that americans really pay attention to politicians and where they stand instead of the rhetoric. Elections have became a popularity contest and many important domestic issues have been overlooked.
The person I'm going to support has one skeleton in his closet and that is he supported H-1B visa's which I don't fully support.
I can go back home to Michigan, and see empty factory' s. One particular company built a brand new facility and never used it as the federal government and private sectors canceled contracts with the company right before it was complete. Hundreds of applicants were sent a letter they wouldn't be getting a job.
I honestly feel we are going through some bad times right now and the proof is not only showing up in the automobile sector but also in the service sectors. If people that worked at the local factory making a good middle class income loses his/her job then the impact affects the local community. I don't mind the Japanese, and other foreign entity's coming over to our country and opening up knew facility's but I do think we need to do a better job at protecting the all ready established institutions here.
I see nothing wrong with a law that says if you want to sell it here, you need to build it here with "X" amount of domestic content. Lemko, could you imagine how many jobs that would create along with a universal healthcare system ????
I'm not saying that's the ultimate fix or answer pal but something needs to be done to not only save the domestic car company's but to strengthen our manufacturing base because I feel a total service economy won't work because as we've seen those jobs are being sent over sea's also. I know you've called up people needing service like on your computer and the guy on the other end is in India.
I do hope the foreign company's keep moving jobs over here and buying parts from american suppliers and get americanized but we also need more federal involvement to relieve the financial burdens the big 3 are feeling. I think with the right policy's put in place we can right this sinking ship. I'd love the day when I could buy a Lexus LS 460 that has 80% domestic content and is assembled in Pennsylvania or a Ford Fusion that has 85% domestic content and is made in Idaho, or a Chevy HHR that's made in Oklahoma, or a Acura RL, that's made Wisconsin, or a Mitsubishi EVO-X, made right here in the Texas Panhandle in Amarillo, you get my drift.
Rocky
Totally 100% off-topic but an interesting stat.
And this is different from the rest of our history.....how?
I would take being profitable over being the biggest.
Rocky
P.S. I'm getting cotton-mouthed and will be looking forward to you helping me quench my thirst.
But the way things seem to be going, I could miss a couple of months in here and not REALLY miss anything.....everybody keeps going around and around and around in circles. It's like lifting the lid on the washing machine in the middle of a spin cycle - all we're doing in here is chasing our tails.
Not only is it boring but I'm getting dizzy. Problem is very few folks are really interested in what the OTHER guy is trying to say; simply trying to score points like it's a freakin' football game. And I'm as guilty of that as anybody else in here
BTW; on our little sidebet, I caught wind of something said by Ed Peper (general manager of Chevy) regarding Camaro powertrains to the effect that there would be a high perf V8 option and TWO V6 options (one for economy/price and a different high performance V6). No mention of a 'base' V8 with an optional high-performance V8.
http://www.camaro5.com/?p=46
So, it seems as though the 'standard' V8 may very well be the LS2. I'm gonna hold off until I see something a bit more 'official' but I think you're closer to naming your preference in brewski's than I am.....
If an automaker is shooting with everything they have to get say, a 35% market share, and shooting for that goal alone, something else is being sacrificed, and the usual suspects are profitability and/or quality...
And yet, it is profitability and/or quality that will keep them in business next year, whereas nobody EVER purchased a vehicle simply because a company had XX% market share...
It may give bragging rights to the one who gains that market share, but anyone with half a brain would never buy anything based on market share alone...
Especially if the companies with the LOWER market share have more repeat buyers, better quality, and real dividends for their stockholders at the end of the year...
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070125/AUTO01/701250368/- 1148
Rocky
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/editorial/16548302.htm
Rocky
Thank for your support. In response to your question, the Senator and Mrs.
Edwards drive American made hybrid SUVs.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact the campaign at
this e-mail address.
Thanks again for your support.
Rocky
Rocky
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070214/OPINION03/7021403- 13
Rocky
Rocky
Ford Freelander also isn't selling so ford is changing name to Taurus X.
The sad part is there are people that will buy these vehicles because of the new name.
Rocky
My reason for bringing that up is that all they have to do is change the name, and many folks who owned a Taurus years ago and were pleased with it will be very happy to have a chanve to, once again, buy a new Taurus and make themselves happy...
To us automotive mavens here at edmunds, we laugh and mock a simple name change because we see right thru it...but when 16 million cars (plus or minus) are sold yearly, there are many folks who cannot tell a V6 from a V8, do not know what a turbocharger is, but can tell red from yellow from blue, and as long as it comes in blue, they will buy it, esp if it reminds them of their Taurus of years back...
To you and me the name change is an insult...but then I never bought a pet rock or a chia pet, but they sold millions...hence, PT Barnum still lives among us, and he is working for FoMoCo as we speak...:):):):):)
The Five Hundred is a good car! Granted the styling is bland (it's certainly not ugly), but it's huge, safe, and other than the mediocre power, has gotten solid reviews.
Ford just needs to put 3.5 engine in the Five Hundred instead of the 3.0 with 203 horses.
The Japanese manufacturers are in the ascendant now but, the ones to watch are the Chinese. Just scratching about at present but they have a potentially huge internal market that will give them a real edge on economies of scale. Want to do your children a real favour ? Get them to start learning Mandarin.
While in the United Kingdom, I watched an episode of Top Gear where the reviewers were performing some sort of ridiculous test with a Chevrolet Lacetti (spelling?). I quickly got the impression that the Lacetti, and Chevrolets in general, are not looked upon favorably by the British.
While I do not wish economic hardship on anyone, when (not if) the US suffers their next major recession, and when unemployment breaks 10%, I truly believe that the Chinese will suffer 10 times as much as WalMart will suffer, and makers like Mercedes, Audi, Lexus and Infiniti will suffer greatly...hence, while learning Mandarin, like any foreign language, is always a worthy endeavor, I question whether China will really own the world, because their entire economy's growth is a reflection of ours...when we sneeze, I believe they will suffer the flu and pneumonia, from an economic standpoint...
Spanish may be better, simply because the foreigners you will most likely interact with over here will be Hispanic, legal or illegal...
Just some random thoughts...
Rocky
This flip side of this is that the China's trade with us is protected from currency fluctuations. In addition by having the US Gov't owe them so much money the one trading partner the Chinese never want to see go belly up is the US economy.
Condisder if you lent your neighbor next door a $1000 a month every month and now he owes you $100,000. He pays you back like clockwork and pays you $10,000 a year in interest. He's never missed a payment in his life. That's a pretty sweet deal for you. If your neighbor wants to borrow another $5000 next month you'd probably step right up and try to outbid the other neighbors to get that new note.
But you certainly don't want anything bad to befall your neighbor...there goes your $100 Grand and all the interest as well. You ( China ) want your neighbor ( US ) to stay very very healthy.
Rocky
.. work more/harder and make more money and pay off all the bills, or
.. stop charging things and pay cash.
If this latter choice is taken then most of our military industrial complex gets shut down, because it generates income only when it sells armaments to other countries, generally it only consumes income. The Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard and Port and Border Patrols all get laid off....as well as all the workers making products for the military. Only the workers making military products for sale to other countries can keep their jobs.
or,
.. to fund the the necessary defense projects then, like any family, ya gotta cut the money going to tuition and entertainment and vacations.
If a family makes $50000 net each year it can't spend $60000, otherwise it has to borrow $10000 from the bank or a family member.
Compassion may be nice, but it is not a Constitutional function of the gov't, and I am sick and tired of working to support my family and theirs...and, as long as Medicaid (welfare) covers Viagra, we seem to be getting more of theirs...it would seem to me that if every welfare recipient was impotent, it would seem like poetic justice, don't you think???