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Comments
Of course the domestics led the way with Saturn in Tennessee.
As for your complaints about the other markets, you haven't provided any link to substantiate your claims. Until then.
It seems Detroit chose to box itself out. An open mind goes a long way.
I don't know why Cadillac and Lincoln cars do not sell at home. I know the Escalade beats all in its class for sales. GM as a whole has the SUV full sized market pretty weil tied up. How is that bad for them? At least they are best at some segments.
Just that, how reliable is that market segment now and in the longer term? If it isn't, there is nothing to worry about, is it?
Cadillac now looks good, but their prices are too low. They need to slowly move up market a bit. Somehow GM has never managed to move Cadillac up market but on a whole despite being working man’s luxury they are not too bad off at the moment.
Lincoln, on the other hand looks old and dated. The town car and the mkz look they belong in the early 90ies. Ford just does not spend enough cash making sure it’s car line up is fresh, new, and competitive for the price.
Loren
I see lots of Cadillacs here in the Midwest. Who says they're not selling.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'd say Cadillac's problem is the same as the rest of GM's. They sold to many troublesome and uncompetitive product for to long. I'd guess if you spent quite a bit of cash on a vehicle that turned out to be substandard, it would take a long time to get that person back. Odds are they may have gone to Lexus never to return.
The CTS seems decent and the new model looks to be very nice. The SRX could have been so much more if it wasn't priced so high and had a better interior from the start. I rarely see one. The new STS looks good, but it is competing in a touch market as is the CTS. Escalade has the goods, DTS's clientele is dying off and the Lucerne is probably a better buy.
Not if they have to deal with Lexus after the warranty is up. They will look elsewhere. I would like to see a survey on customer service after the warranty is over. I would bet that Lexus drops to the bottom like a rock. Lexus is fortunate in the fact that they sell to fat cats that generally dump the car after 3 years. So they have a good dealer experience.
After the so called "fat cats" dump there Lexus's after 3 years, it's not like they disappear. Lexus and Acura have a pretty impressive used car warranty program and look at how expensive a used Lexus is. People want them.
It's not like the experience with a Cadillac dealership is fun and inexpensive. A friend of mine just had to replace the transmission in his '98 Seville STS at 85k miles. He wasn't bragging about his experience with the dealership, other than the fact that he felt "bent over".
I have sold a ton out of warranty Lexus vehicles. They are one of the few vehicles we will sell out of warranty simply because their come back rate is so low.
In the past three years I can only think of one Lexus that we have had to bring back for work within our used car warranty period. Even that one was fairly minor as the O2 sensor just gave up the ghost.
You can say that Lexus are boring, uninspiring, soulless vehicles all day long and I will agree with you but you can't say they are unreliable.
My MIL has a 1999 Lexus RX300 that my FIL bought when it was 2 or 3 years old. He bought it from a police auction so it has the absolute worst history you can think of. I think it was seized from some drug dealer or something and was a little rough. He had a couple of grand of body work done to it and it looked like new.
She has 180,000 miles on it now and has only had two problems. The 02 sensors have been replaced once which is to be expected.
Now the other problem was entirely her fault. I serviced the transmission for her once when I had my shop and that was at 120,000 miles. The service had never been done before then and was never done after either. It really didn't surprise me that the transmission failed at 160,000 miles or so. It was replaced with a rebuilt one for 2,500 dollars or so and has been fine ever since.
The problem is all the studies are 3 years or less for long term customer service. CR or JD powers need to interview some owners that keep their cars longer than 8 years. Then we will get the true picture.
That saved her about 2,000 dollars. A good independent is a god send for any older vehicle. Dealers are always going to be more expensive as the service operation is paying most of the bills. The new car departments at most dealerships are run to break even at best and some are run at a loss continuously. That is what has happened to the new car industry. Some dealers make money on used cars but not enough to turn a profit overall.
The rest of the world has a very different opinion about Lexus, perceived or otherwise. And it helps to have that. It would help GM and Ford to have that. And there are good reasons for that "perception". It is called ownership experience.
It is why some import brands have gained respect from Americans.
I did not make the statement on how great Lexus is and how crappy the domestics are. I just responded to let people know that Lexus is not perfect. I would imagine there are a lot more old Caddies still running than Lexus.
I did not say our LS400 was unreliable. I said the dealer was ripping us off on simple repairs that we felt were needed to keep the car like new. Which it is.
For those that are environmentally inclined. I would suggest keeping your cars and trucks as long as possible. Find an independent repair facility as soon as possible, after the warranty expires.
No make is perfect. No doubt some are better than others.
I doubt the rest of the World knows what a Lexus is. They are built primarily for the wealthy American clientele. Even the Japanese did not know what they were till last year. Kind of our little secret.
Many here feel it a personal insult if you say anything bad about a brand they like.
That list is in the works!
And even better, there's a list being made of all the good Lexus (and other) dealers.
Dealer Ratings and Reviews
Note that we have sections for the buying experience as well as how you are treated in the service department.
btw, Gagrice, how much did that indy charge you for the $1200 service?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You'd think with all of the incompetence displayed by the Big 3 over the past 40 years you'd have a bunch of new US auto companies that actually produce relevant and competitive product.
Same thing that people kept asking why there isn't a third party... Same reason.
A little niche sports car or super car company can survive in the US but not a new start up company trying to offer anything close to a full line of vehicles.
Loren
I assume you mean me??? Anti freeze needs to be flushed??? Like down the toilet or something??? :P :P :P
I bought it used, so the manifold COULD have been replaced, I don't know. I've had no problems. A/C is ICE COLD!!
Unlikely but so was the idea of an American car company not beholden to shareholders...
Nissan opened Smyrna in 1983, while Spring Hill didn't open until 1990.
New car companies starting up in the US? How about Smart... er, I mean smart.
Loren
Cr did do a survey of cars kept for a 10 year period(1997 MY-2006) and the Japanese Big 3 were the most reliable car brands in that survey. VW was the worst of the major makes while Ford was middle of the pack. GM and Chrysler had basically the same record for reliability at the 10 year mark of ownership but both had worse reliability than the Japanese Big 3 makes or even Ford at the 10 year mark of ownership. CR said Hyundai's newer models were up there reliability wise with the Japanese makes but older Hyundai's have more problems than the Domestics.
Oh thanks for setting me straight on that one.
TCO uses actual cost (TMV) not MSRP. That said, none of these cars sell at MSRP. At least, I haven't paid MSRP on *any* car yet, much less the mainstreamers. Its usually close to listed invoice which by itself is about 9-10% off MSRP.
The independent Lexus shop charged us $253 for the part on the gas gauge. They did several other minor repairs including some bushings in the front end a leaky valve cover gasket and reset the airbag light. The total bill with tax was just under $1100. These were repairs that Lexus estimated at over $5k. I will go in an rate them on the sight listed.
Sometimes it just depends on the repairs. Somethings I get done at the dealer others I don't. I saved a ton having the trans rebuilt at a local small trans shop, yet my local Chevy dealer was real close on price when I replaced my A/C compressor and fuel pump. Plus GM gives a life time warranty on the parts.
Loren
Just a thought,
Loren