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Toyota Camry Hybrid

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Comments

  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098
    "No, when start from still, only electrical engine propell the car unless moderate or harder gas pedal action or speed over 30mph. So in stop and go traffic, only the electric motor in working unless sudden acceleration applied. This is why hybrid has higher mileage in city than highway.

    The battery will not "depleted" but no longer aid even needed. True, you are running by the gas engine only while the battery will be charged to certain pecentage, than the Synergy system will activate it for exessive torque needed."

    I think we are speaking of different hybrids; I was referring to the HCH, with the IMA, you are describing the Prius, with HSD.
  • "Did you one say that the Prius didn't have Gears ?"

    I am back and a proud owner of 2006 Prius, right here in TCH thread =D Prius HSD have gears in the planetary gearset. It does not SHIFT any gear. The shift occurs in energy, from mechanical to electrical and vice versa. This creates high and low thrust, without the need to shift gear -- as in traditional transmission. The balance is controlled by how much HSD generates electricity. A breakthrough concept isn't it? IMA does not utilize this amazingly simple concept.

    "However, I think a transmission should be defined as the mechanism by which the engine power is transferred to the wheels."

    I disagree. You are describing a "Transmitter" as in WHAT transmits power. However, a "Transmission" is rather HOW power is transmitted. HSD does not have extra (dedicated) hardware to create the purpose of having/creating a transmission job. Everything was created out of simple 5 rolling gearset.

    Dennis
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,134
    Hey good to see you back. Are you lovin' your Prius?
  • Yup, very much in love =D Passing power is awesome!! I don't miss my Celica a bit. Okay, just a little bit in the exterior appearance. Another thing I am surprise is how I can easily beat EPA fuel economy numbers in Prius. Imagine when the car breaks in and warmer weather come? Oh man!!

    Can't wait to test drive the TCH when it comes out.
  • The specifications page on Toyota.com now lists the Hybrid EPA estimated MPG at 40/38.

    http://www.toyota.com/images/vehicles/2007/camry/specs.pdf

    I am holding in my hand a printed copy of this page from when it was first posted a few weeks ago and it lists 43/37.

    And the latest edition of the Hybrid Synergy View newsletter, of which I just got today also lists 43/37.
    http://www.toyota.com/hybridsynergyview/2006/winter/favoritecar.html?url=button

    I bet this is our first clue that the EPA has completed their testing and the results aren't what Toyota predicted. This will probably mean the Hybrid Tax Credit value will fall as well. :mad:
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098
    "Did you one say that the Prius didn't have Gears ?" "

    I hope you realize this wasn't my statement.

    "However, I think a transmission should be defined as the mechanism by which the engine power is transferred to the wheels."

    This part is mine, and I stand by my definition. Transmitter? The thing that provides power in a vehicle is the motor, either ICE or electric, or both.

    I think you answered the original question about gears in your statement, I will emphasize the important part:

    "Everything was created out of simple 5 rolling gearset."
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    Actually my break point would be closer to $10 a gallon, which will probably happen in 2021. At that time, I might consider a low high mileage nuclear or solar car.

    Cheers,
    MidCow
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Posts: 1,207
    “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”

    Mark Twain. It's as true today as when he said it.
  • liaisonliaison Posts: 49
    Can someone explain what ICE and HSD mean. I have been away from this thread for awhile(mainly with the next gen Camry thread). Thanks
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    ICE - Internal Combustion Engine...
    HSD - Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > "Full Hybrid" : means twp powers sources either of which can power the vehicle alone or in combinmtation with the other.

    Changing the definition to fit a product, eh?

    FULL means FULL.

    Since IMA lacks the ability to create & consume electricity at the same time, how can that possibly be considered the same as the HSD and Ford hybrid systems?

    THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!

    IMA cannot use electric propulsion to help climb a hill while at the same time recharge the battery-pack. That is most definitely a useful ability... one that ASSIST hybrids do not provide.

    The new Civic-Hybrid is missing that, so it cannot possibly be considered full. It is still an ASSIST hybrid.

    JOHN
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Gears ?

    Don't let them drag you into a semantec argument. Gears shift. Since nothing shifts in the PSD, nothing can be called a gear. There are devices inside that carry power. So the term "power carrier" is definitely a better label.

    Whatever the case, it is crystal clear that many still don't have any idea what goes on under the hood. There are summary documents available, like this one. I strongly suggest they consult them before jumping to anymore conclusions.

    JOHN
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,134
    Gears shift. Since nothing shifts in the PSD, nothing can be called a gear

    They do? Gears in a differential don't shift. planetary gears do not have to shift. I would gather from what you are saying the system in the HSD uses belts and pulleys to transfer power from the power sources to the wheels. With NO gears in the design. Unless of course the motor is directly hooked to each wheel through a reduction gear, like the hybrid systems used in heavy equipment. Hybrid systems are as varied as the imagination. To try and say one is "full" and another is "half" seems to give a tunnel vision view of hybrid technologies. All hybrid systems have something to offer the buyer. If not they will not sell and will be scrapped.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    That's a great example of pointless semantic arguing! Use whatever the heck label you want. In the end, they are still NOT THE SAME.

    JOHN
  • lanceqlanceq Posts: 16
    Will the new Camry Hybrid have any significant improvements from the 2006 Prius?
  • A very good insight, John =D. Some people in here acted like they knew how HSD worked. After 2 years or so, they still don't get it. I am still seeing:
    - Incorrect comments about HSD system unable to run gas engine while in reverse.
    - Myths about HSD being inefficient on the highway (I can get about 55mpg on the highway. Name any size traditional car sold in US with any engine size that can match that). QED.
    - Myths about the need to replace battery and inflated cost of the battery pack. (The cost mentioned was actually a 4 years old number and prices have come down to $2,150. It is even lower than 4-speed Camry automatic transmission.)

    Dennis
  • Not significant improvements. Camry Hybrid has many improvements that were made in the Highlander Hybrid plus more.

    When compared to Prius:
    - Battery pack makes 17 hp more (45 hp vs. 28 hp)
    - The main electric motor reaches 65 hp more (141 hp vs. 76hp)
    - Eco button to make the climate control less aggressive when the ICE is off.
    - 650 Volts vs. 500 Volts electrical system (More efficient and less heat loss through wire)
    - The Inverter and the powertrain packaging are smaller
    - I suspect, as in the Highlander Hybrid, there will be no more chain used to transfer power. See pics below for comparison.

    Prius
    image

    Highlander Hybrid / RX400h
    image

    That's all I can think of for now.

    Dennis
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,134
    I do see a lot of gears in the Prius hybrid system. I think you are mistaken about the cost of a new battery if it is out of warranty. If Toyota will replace the HV battery for $5000 it will be a miracle. Toyota/Lexus dealers are rip-off artists.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    As always, the skeptic. In addition to the warranty toyota now states that the battery life now should be at least 150,000 mi. This based on their own bench testing and 9 years of experience on the road. At 150,000 mi plus drivers have considered that they have received full value on a vehicle.

    And why shouldnt it go 250,000 miles with care? I will be at 150K in 3 yrs. I'll let you know.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Talk about coming up with definition to fit (or unfit) a product...

    IMA cannot use electric propulsion to help climb a hill while at the same time recharge the battery-pack. That is most definitely a useful ability... one that ASSIST hybrids do not provide.

    ;)

    Whoever came up with the very idea of "Full" hybrid. The originality lies in "parallel" versus "series" hybrid.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    The point is that once a term is defined, it cannot be changed.

    That definition has been around for years. The first mention in my logs (webpage 45) is from late 2002, to document the video-clips I had just published with the purpose of pointing out how differently a "full" hybrid operated compared to an "assist".

    JOHN
  • "Whoever came up with the very idea of "Full" hybrid. The originality lies in "parallel" versus "series" hybrid."

    A full hybrid like Hybrid Synergy Drive falls under neither "parallel" nor "series" hybrid. HSD is a parallel-series hybrid.

    HSD can utilize both modes depending on the situation. The simplicity and beauty of HSD is that it (computer) transforms and balances both modes using the same Power Split Device. This feature is already built into E-CVT.

    When GM announced their two-mode hybrid design, I was puzzled. GM claimed that their two-mode system is better than single mode design. HSD actually has no mode, because it varies and balancing act done by the computer. Then I figured that they were referring to IMA system.

    GM design has two statistic modes. One for the city and another for highway. The switch is done by a clutch. One has yet to see how smooth the transition will be.

    Dennis
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    A good explanation and discussion is at Toyota Georgetown's website:

    http://www.toyotageorgetown.com/hybrid/index.asp
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I’m surprised that, having defined “full hybrid”, nobody has come up with the definition of a half hybrid yet. ;)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    A full hybrid like Hybrid Synergy Drive falls under neither "parallel" nor "series" hybrid. HSD is a parallel-series hybrid.

    Neither is the hybrid system Honda showcased couple of years ago in a scooter. It is a combination of series (during cruising) and parallel (during acceleration/start up) hybrid, depending on situation.

    BUT, I would refrain from using a term like "Full Hybrid", it simply has more marketing connotation than anything to do with technology.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    The hybrid Camry has one flaw that I view as a big flaw and that is a lack of trunk space due to its battery.

    Oh yes I know the same problem is encountered in both hybrid versions of the Accord ,Civic and Lexus GS450H. Any hybrid sedan will have limited cargo space.

    That is why I think hybrid hatchbacks like the Prius makes the most sense( assuming an owner values cargo space).

    So what is the cargo space solution for the hybrid versions of the Camry, Accord and Civic? I think the perfect answer would be hybrid wagon versions of the Camry, Accord and Civic.
  • MSRP is $25,900. That will be plus destination and any options. Option prices are not out yet. Fully loaded with Nav and Leather should be just under $30,000. The base MSRP is $5000 less than Accord Hybrid.

    Brian
  • You will have the 60/40 split rear seat so the trunk can't be that small.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    MSRP is $25,900

    Not a bad price at all. I wonder what the price will be in Canada?

    Congratulations Kydspyder for your foresight in correctly predicting the hybrid Camry MSRP many months ago.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    That is assuming I dont usually have passengers in the rear seats. And that is not the case.

    The trunk space of the hybrid Camry at 10.5 cubic feet is about 12 percent less than the trunk space of my small BMW 3 series. And one reason I want to buy a new car is for more cargo space.
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