By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Interesting, because in Canada only the Hybrid has a temporary spare.
As far as "value" I wouldn't consider a CE. I'm trading in an Infinity FX45 ($48,000 list) and the actual MSRP is not a significant issue as I buy what I like and I usually want something "different". This car appeals to me for the engineering in it and the tax credis simply make it an easy decision. I didn't want something that looked like a "treehugger" car (I am not a treehugger, just getting frugal)so I avoid the Prius and the Honda's don't offer the MPG. I simply decided I wanted an economy car in my family fleet and the Camry Hybrid now falls into that list without being small or stripped.
Also, I like the idea of 600 miles per tank for a trip. If (when) gas lines become long (I still remember) I want to get "there and back" without worry of getting stuck "there".
Call me crazy, but when Iran passes out the nukes to the rest of the middle east, oil will be in short demand! (Mark this in your calandar and look at it this time next year to see if I'm wrong.)
Anybody have any insight into this Security System? Thanks.
Can't address the alarm sys, but my son's less-than-1-year old 05 Mazda 3 was totaled, (he was at fault, unfortuantely) and he got enough from the ins to buy a new 06. We were very surprised. They even included lic and sales tax.
Your paragraph above is the perfect description of what Toyota and Honda and Ford have all discovered about the potential hybrid driver. Good decision.
The real anti-theft system is the chip in the SKS fob programmed to your engine. Without the SKS key fob no one ( ncluding you ) can start/steal your vehicle without putting a hook under it. IMO this is much more useful as a deterrent than the RS 3200. It's your choice though.
First some oft-heard statements/myths:
you can refer to post # 2890 on the Hybrid Highlander by cdtrap wherein he summarized many points of misinformation. Not all apply to the TCH but enough do.
EPA Estimates / testing methodology
You can go to the EPA website to see how they do the testing but at present the tests are based on 30 y.o. assumptions. If you drive moderately you will approach/attain EPA values. Moderately doesn't mean poking along. Normal suburban driving near a mall or on a 40 mph heavily travelled road will be the 'sweet spot' for your fuel economy.
Highway driving at 55 is the most efficient. One should attain just about 37 mpg ( EPA estimate ) atthis speed. For every 10 mph faster above 55 you will lose FE; e.g. at about 65 you will likely show a FE of ~33 mpg; at 75 mph you will likely show a FE of under 30 mpg. Why? Increased drag kills the FE for all vehicles above 75 mph. Also in keeping this speed you are riding the ICE almost all the time not giving it a chance to turn off.
Turning off the ICE
This is the most ingenious trait of the HSD system and it's mainly dependent on the driver. As the controller of input ( your brain, foot and pedal ), the driver can induce the ICE to turn off while driving during which time no fuel is burned whatsoever. Pretty basic. As noted above if you are racing at 75 mph nearly all the time you are just driving an ICE 2.4L Camry. Drag and driver input will keep your FE low. But if you have to drive like this due to conditions then you have to. Be safe.
Using 'pulse and glide' in any situation whether 65 mph on the highway or 25 mph in the city will turn off the ICE and allow you to save fuel. Use it. It's easy and causes no disruptions at all done correctly.
If however you have a choice of routes and the time consider not taking the highway. What many have found is that giving up the bustle of highway driving by using suburban roads at more moderate speeds is a) more relaxing and b) more fuel efficient.
Anticipation:
This is linked to driver input. If you are in a situation such as a suburban road or highway where you see a blockage or traffic light up ahead where you will likely slow or stop then let off the pedal as early as possible while still being safe. When you let off the pedal you turn off the ICE and 'glide' to a stop ( not burning any fuel ). This also saves wear on the breaks and is in fact more relaxing.
Weather conditions:
Fortuitiously the TCH is coming now when the weather is mild. During Winter months expect the FE to deteriorate by about 10%. The same is true of rough weather at other times ( think riding a bike in windy conditions ). EPA weather conditions: tests done in a laboratory at ~72 deg with a fully warmed up engine.
Your personal real world FE rating:
One of the most misunderstood statements regarding the EPA FE ratings is the Combined rating. The EPA is not a rigorous scientific body. It's results have to be utilized in a political environment. Thus in the case of the Prius it's ratings are 60 City - 51 Highway - 55 Combined. The EPA just takes the midpoint and assumes all drivers are about 50/50 in City/Hwy driving. But what if you are not? My own is 85% highway @ 60 mph and 15% 'city' at 40 mph. To be exact one should take the weighted average in order to get a correct 'combined' value. Mine is 52.5 mpg in EPA weather condtions.
If you make enough to get hit with "alternate minimum tax" (AMT) you do not get the tax credit. It would not do me any good for sure.
Short trips kill FE for all vehicles.
If your normal driving pattern is short hops either to work or around town then the ICE/exhaust system never has a chance to get up to it's most efficient temperature. Everytime you stop and turn off the motor then the engine cools and everything must be started again. In this case you are driving a normal ICE 4c Camry in the most disadvantageous City conditions. Be honest with yourself in the type of driving you might be doing.
Now combine all these variables into a single algorithm describing your personal driving. It can be done.
For example:
Winter driving against a strong northerly headwind at 75 mph on a just recently plowed roadway ( Minn commute? ).
Your fuel economy might be in the 30 mpg range or lower.
Take a Sunday drive looking as houses cruising through various neighborhoods now in springtime. You might attain 45 mpg!
So, I recognize that my commute may be too short to benefit fully from a hybrid, but I would expect that I should still get in the low 30 MPG range. My other trips make up over half my mileage and they're a good bit longer. I'd be happy to average 34 MPG in winter and 36 MPG in summer. Frankly, I want to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, so this car is as much a statement as it is anything else. I want to do my part, and I can afford a few $K extra. I just hope maintenance costs don't eat me alive--it's one thing I have seen NOTHING on.
Do you know the routine maintenance schedule for the TCH and how much your dealership plans to charge for it?
Thanks again!
That's a very good point and something that many people may not know. The hybrid "penalty" for driving at speeds above 55 mph is higher than a non-hybrid car.
Autoweek got 42 mpg for the Prius (rated at 51 mpg) at constant highway driving of about 75 mph, so your estimate of 30 mpg at 75 mph for the Camry Hybrid seems about right.
The unfortunate thing is those Prius drivers driving 55 mph in the car pool lane to maximize their mpg. Man, that is so ANNOYING!
Also, does anyone have information or photos or the rearview mirror with the rear camera option? Cost? Doesn't the navi have the rear view as an option?
Any pricing from Hybrid buyers in S. Florida? recommendations on who to go to?
Thanks all!
The Camry V6 is rated at 31mpg highway, so it may deliver similar mileage on interstate trips?
Do you know the routine maintenance schedule for the TCH and how much your dealership plans to charge for it?
Based on the Prius and the HH there is nothing special to do on the TCH. As a matter of fact it might be less than a regular ICE. The only thing that has to be done is service the ICE with oil and filters every 5000 mi/6 mo's; rotate the tires; inspect the brakes, hoses, etc as with any vehicle. That's it.
All Toyota auto's now use timing chains which should last the life of the vehicle. The plugs are rated for 100K plus. That's it.
You should save on brakes big time since you will be 'gliding' a lot and only engaging the friction brakes at the very end of your stop. 100K miles have been reported in the Prius.
We offer free oil and filters and VA inspections for life. So that part of the maintenance is Zero! Rotate the tires and do the annual visual inspections. The electric motors and hybrid system and the PSD are maintenance free.
Not exactly. Yes there is a more pronounced effect/loss of FE with the hybrids but all vehicles suffer from the drag loss. That part is just physics.
The 31 mpg EPA on the 3.5L V6 is also predicated on the 48 mph EPA testing procedures. Thus going 65 mph will cost you about a 5-10% loss of FE ( ~28-29 mpg ). Going 75 mph or faster constantly in the ICE V6 will cost you about a 20-30% loss in FE ( ~24 mpg ).
damn - I'm getting 23 mph in my car going 70 mph.....(not a Camry hybrid), but I want a new car and I need a reason to buy one!!! :-)
Are you driving a V6 or 4c presently. 23 mpg makes sense at 70+ mph regularly. I'd estimate ~30-32 mpg in good weather in the TCH. That's about a 30% increase in FE which is the figure almost everyone seems to find in longterm driving of a HSD hybrid over it's ICE counterpart.
I don't have an answer but the general rule is that two factors contribute to the energy needed to rotate the wheel (for a car of a given weight): (1) the mass of the wheel (2) the mass distribution along the radius from wheel center to rim. More weight out towards the rim takes more energy to rotate. So a bigger wheel of the same mass as a smaller wheel would take more energy to rotate. If the bigger wheel was a light alloy and the smaller wheel was heavier iron, who knows? Sorry - I know this doesn't tell you how the mileage is affected.
Are you able to tell if the generator is slowing the car down when you let off the gas completely or just when the brakes are applied? and if in fact it is slowing when letting off the gas can you tell if the brake lights are coming on without touching the brake pedal (similar to jake brake operation)
Too small for me.
The red ring around the reverse light is not illuminated. Actually this lens unit (built into the trunk lid) is a Hybrid only piece. On the other camry models this lens unit is split in half and contains a tail light as well as the reverse lamp. Since the Hybrid tail lights are LED units, using the conventional taillight bulb on the trunk wouldn't have matched in appearance to the LEDs. This is why a Hybrid is super easy to spot from the rear...the reverse lens extends from top to bottom.
Are you able to tell if the generator is slowing the car down when you let off the gas completely or just when the brakes are applied?
This is what the "B" mode in the transmission selector is for. It adds additional "engine" braking. The brake lamps are not illuminated during coasting in this mode.
If it's the same as the HH and the Prius the vehicles with a Navi screen will have a schematic 'cartoon' of what is going on with the drive system and charging. Using this you can see that when you let off the pedal the front wheels drive the MG2 as a generator to charge the battery. Better yet IMO if you are in the bar-graph screen it's like a biofeedback device. You can see instantaneously what your mpg is as you drive and change pedal pressure. Let off the pedal and the bar graph goes to the 'roof', i.e. theoretically you are getting infinite mpg for that period ( you are moving and burning no fuel ). This is what I mean in the prior post about 'turning off the ICE'. It's very obvious.
IN the standard model there is no screen but a digital readout if it's like the HH that shows the instantaneous FE reading. '99.9' indicates that the ICE is shut off.
Now I haven't yet driven the TCH so those that just got theirs can answer this question better.
Regarding the brake lights I think it's just like anyother vehicle they dont come on until you actually apply the brakes. It's like that in the Prius.
Careful. The 'B' is not to encourage engine braking on flat normal driving. It's specifically intended as a 'low gear' on long downhill runs. Nothing more.
It's about the size of a laptop computer carrying case located between the ICE and the electric motors.
It is sealed and needs no maintenance.
As a matter of fact it might be less than a regular ICE.
snip
So what does ICE stand for?
Thanks.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=3430&page_numbe- - r=1
One nit in the analysis is that it seems at the time they didn't have the pricing available to them. It appears that they compared the basic SE V6 and the basic TCH. Plugging in the pricing which is now known one finds the following:
SE V6 .. $26,950 (R/T est) vs $26,000 ( Actual)
TCH .. $29,915 (R/T est) vs $26,900 ( Act Pck #1 )
In actual pricing the TCH is about $900 higher than the SE V6 creating a hugely different conclusion.
This comparo answers a lot of questions posed priorly here.
Remember, the biggest factor in highway mileage is wind resistance which increased by a factor of the speed increase squared. This doesn't happen at a magic number of 75, but at much much lower speeds. Get on you bicycle and go 15 mph and see how much wind you experience.
Air resistance doesn't differentiate between hybrids and non-hybrids Therefore the statement "That's a very good point and something that many people may not know. The hybrid "penalty" for driving at speeds above 55 mph is higher than a non-hybrid car." IMHOSO (In My Humble Objective Scienitific Opinion)cannot be true. The only factors that affects a vehicle is the CD (Coefficient of drag) and the rolling tire resistance.
In the case of HSD, 42 mph might even be more efficient because theorectically you could still be in "electric only" mode. However, the needless spinning of MG2 and the loss on doble energy form convesion mught offset this. However, John1701A is proposing that the Prius actually achieves a state of pertpetual motion by using "NO Gas" at highway speeds under certain conditions with the ICE running. see message : john1701a, "Civic Hybrid vx Civic LX - How many miles before I break even?" #22, 2 Apr 2006 6:33 am
Cheers,
MidCow
I recently rented a Prius for a week. After a long mountain descent, which completely charged the battery, I experienced travelling along a flat (as near as I could judge) road at 72 MPH without the ICE running. I though travel at that speed without the ICE was impossible, but apparently not. Of course I cannot discount the possibility that the ICE may have been rotating, just not having any fuel fed to it.
An entire post about nit picking, Midcow? Yes since the influence of air resistance has an exponential effect the curve is not straightline but severely curved. Without listing every data point showing the curve I chose two common speeds to illustrate the effect.
I'll stand by those estimates. But thanks for your input.
I actually like the digital display better. It has several different modes that you can toggle through using the "Dis" button on the steering wheel. Two of these modes will show you the current efficiency of the vehicle:
1. Gives you a bar graph of current efficiency;
2. The other is a graphically display that will tell you whether you are using the ICE, the electric motor, or both. . . or whether you are recharging by coasting or braking. I like this display mode the best.
As for the nav screen, the "cartoon" is too much to look at while driving, although impressive to passengers. I prefer the "consumption" screen, which provides you with bar graph data for each minute of travel. It seems to be a good format to assist in altering your driving style for ultimate efficiency.
As for any noticeable slowing when coasting - I would say it is very similar to any other car.
The digital display below the speedo appears to be the same display that will be included on the Lexus GS hybrid. . . in case anyone is interested.
40 mpg 55 mph
35 mpg 65 mph
30 mpg 75 mph
You're right about that. Even at 55, you better get out of the way... I may start taking the back roads to work...