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But then the Prius is rated at something like 60 and most people report getting 45 or so.
Test drove a Prius. It was OK. Some oomph but not much. The styling sort of sticks out (hey !!! look at me !!! I'm so socially conscientious !!!). There are a lot of them on the road here in the (SF) Bay Area.
Ah a hybrid Camry has come out and it seems to hit a lot of high notes for me (just reading about it).
Haven't had a Toyota since I was a teen-ager.
Just test drover one. Quite nice. Very quiet. A combination no doubt of good acoustic design but also, of course, the hybrid motor is just a lot quieter.
One concern and my question. I test drove it maybe 10-15 miles. Local streets and highway too. Accelerated sharply a number of times just to see what it would do.
I left the lot with just under a 1/4 tank of gas. Driving 10-15 miles, with a number of sharp accelerations the gas dial dropped quite noticably. (and this is with a 17.2 gal. tank which is considerably larger than the 14.5 that I have in my Contour).
If I accelerate a lot, am I going to destroy the car's mileage (and if so, why is the oomph in there in the first place?).
What are the driving do's and don't's for hybrids if you want to get somewhere near the average mileage out of it (which seem to be about 3/4s of what's rated)? A web reference for hybrid driving tips?
thanx.
pat
You can refer to the following posts:
#2890 in the Hybrid Highlander forum
#843 and #848 in this forum
If you have further questions please pose them.
Was too busy trying to grok everything else to do with the car that I didn't look for the following:
When driving in a friend's Prius I believe the display would actually show real-time mpg - does the Camry hybrid's display do this as well?
And what would be really nice, on top of real-time, would be 'trip' mpg. Push a button, start recording. Push the button at any other time or simply stop. And then see mpg over that period of time?
pat
Hardchemist, any luck on your car yet? Southeast Toyota seems to be anemic on loded ones.
In the Prius one can create a 'trip readout' by zeroing out the tank readout before starting a trip. Better yet with the MFD you can see the graph of every 5 min segment of your driving so you know when you go 80 mph that your Fuel usage falls to ~3.3 gal/100 mi ( GPC ) whereas cruising at 55 mph your Fuel usage is ~2.6 gal/100 mi ( GPC ).
IOW going 80 mph will cost you ~ $10/100 mi where as going 55 mph will cost you about $7.80/100 mi.
On a 500 mile trip you would get there 3 hours sooner. Time for a round of golf, swim in the pool or make a couple sales calls. That extra $11 in gas could make you a lot of money. For me it would be an extra $300 in consulting fees.
I'd recommend checking out: http://www.insightcentral.net/KB/faq-efficiency.html
Even though it's somewhat specific to the Honda Insight, I think there's enough general info to be useful in this context. As an Insight owner for the last 5+ years (early adopter!), I think the tip about learning to conserve momentum by anticipating conditions ahead of you is one of the best things one can do to conserve gas. The less you accelerate and decelerate rapidly, the better off you are. Keeping some distance from the car ahead in stop and go will help you travel at a constant speed.
The other thing that is a HUGE boon to freeway mileage is drafting in back of a big rig. However, it's rare to find one that's travelling as fast as I usually want to go...
My dealer seemed pretty confident that next week there would be some loaded ones to choose from. Unfortunately I was advised that they cannot put Camry SE 17" rims on it. Period. That notwithstanding, my dealer typically hears about incoming allocations right before they hit Jacksonville, which is where they put on all the extra crap. This way I can choose from the extras, and not get stuck with stuff I don't want.
I'd like magnetic grey or titanium, tinted windows, all option packages, no spoiler (added weight and reduced aerodynamics overall LMAO). Toyo guard is probably a fact of life, but I'll try to decline if possible.
Regarding the Honda Insight mileage hints, anticipating the conditions ahead is always a good way to save fuel. I throw my MB 6-speed manual tranny in neutral whenever possible (especially coming up to red lights and going downhill), and I average around 29MPG. And that's still doing 75 on the FL turnpike with the A/C on!
Oh one other thing....throwing a big fat monkey wrench into everyone's gas mileage calculations....get a handheld GPS and see how fast your car is REALLY going, vs. what the speedometer tells you. If you are off by 3 MPH that can be a 5% delta depending on what your average speed is.
Oddly enough, my Benz is DEAD-ON (GPS vs. Speedo) and still the trip computer reports 29 MPG vs. my manual calculations of 28 MPG. This was spread out over 5000 miles and a dozen tanks of fuel. That's 3.5% right there. So what are we to believe? Am I getting shorted at the gas pump? Is the variation from temperature differences and the effects on gasoline volume? Is the gas cooler, thus 3.5% denser as it gets sprayed into the cylinders?
One of the U.S. Govt. agencies (NIST???) had a few Prius vehicles for long term testing (dang if I can't find the direct link to a .gov website that reported the findings), and they said the gas mileage computer display was 10% overstated!!! I'll try to find the link and post it when I get home today.
One of the first things everyone needs to do with their TCH is to record a few thousand miles of actual mileage so as to have an idea of any errors in how the car reports the calculated number. Oh, how wonderful it is to be a geeks...
Thanks
We need to remember the higher the milage figures achieved the less impact on incremental changes. For example, I can baby this car and get 38mpg, but drive it like I used to and get 36 mpg. If I drive 20,000 miles a year, this savings only nets out to about $7/month. Where as with my Infiniti FX, going from 16 to 18 mpg was pretty significant.
After I filled up last night, I drove around town (small town - 2 miles) and was able to not have the gasoline engine kick on at all. It was a hoot driving alons and the gage read 99.9 mpg
I believe the form for the IRS tax credit has a blank for up to 3 automobiles. I think I read something about 5?
Taken to an extreme riding a bike that 500 miles will cause no pollution at all. However in the end the rider will be a pauper due to all the lost business.
What are the driving do's and don't's for hybrids if you want to get somewhere near the average mileage out of it (which seem to be about 3/4s of what's rated)? A web reference for hybrid driving tips?
First off, (and this is only my opinion of how I think it works) on about any car computer, if you are starting out on a fresh tank (like a test drive) and you accelerate a lot, the computer will calculate mpg's as if this will be the way the car will be driven for the entire range, thus a lower overall mpg rating. Whereas, if you are getting 38 mpg and already have 300 miles on the tank, then the acceleration may only impact you by a tenth or so on the overall rating.
If you plan on goosing a hybrid all the time, I'm not sure you would be satisfied. However if you simply goose it at the red lights and still do a lot of nonstop driving, you'll get on the low end of the milage prediction; but if you drove a V6 car the same way you'd never achieve what the EPA ratings are for it as well. I believe the driving pattern will keep your results relative to the ratings between different cars. For example an SE V6 is 22 to 31 I believe. If you are the type to drive the hybrid and get 34 mpg, then I'm guessing you'd only get 22 in the V6.
The other thing to remember if you have a high mpg rating vehicle then going a couple of increments better, say from 36 up to 38 mpg does not save all that much. Whereas if you're driving an F150 getting 12 mpg and you baby it to get 13 mpg, you can save pretty significantly if you drive a lot. Going from 34 to 38 mpg is probably like going from 12 to 13 mpg. (do the math, it's pretty revealing)
If you're interested in mpg's the oomph is there when you need it for safety, not for jack rabbit starts.
Driving: I found myself, out of habbit, always pushing on the gas pedal to some degree even when going down hill. On the hybrid, let completly off and the engine will stop and you'll feel like you're "coasting". You may have to brake some because this thing really rolls well (low friction) and will accelerate down hill on its own momentum. When you let off completely or are braking the battery will charge.
If you have the habbit of driving up to a stop light and stopping at the last minute, then you'll not get as much charging effeciency. If you see the light changed or traffic stopped ahead of you then letting of the gas early (if safe) will allow the battery to charge longer. As you watch the flow diagram you'll quicky see how to master the high mpg without really losing any time. The difference in me getting 36.5 and 38.5 was just paying attention to taking my foot off the gas at times it really wasn't helping anyway. Does that save me a lot of money, not really, but it was really cool when I filled up seeing that I got 38.63mpg! (20 more then my FX averaged)
One of the U.S. Govt. agencies (NIST???) had a few Prius vehicles for long term testing (dang if I can't find the direct link to a .gov website that reported the findings), and they said the gas mileage computer display was 10% overstated!!! I'll try to find the link and post it when I get home today.
There is often a significant deviation between the Prius trip computer and the actual hand-calculated values due primarily to the unique 'fuel bladder' in the Prius I believe. The TCH as I understand has no fuel bladder so it is less likely to have these variations.
What I do find though is that if one 'calculated' tank is off in one direction then often the next tankful is off in the other direction. So I ignore the trip computer except as a general indicator. In the final analysis your personal fuel consumption is actually the total no of gallons you actually use.
As recorded on GreenHybrid: my last 9 tankfuls since the weather moderated
MPG - Mi - Gal ....GPC ( Gal consumed/100 mi )
50.8 - 503 - 9.9 ... 1.99 GPC
48.8 - 498 - 10.2 ... 2.05 GPC
51.9 - 514 - 9.9 ... 1.93 GPC
48.4 - 532 - 11.0 ... 2.07 GPC
50.9 - 519 - 10.2 ... 1.96 GPC
50.3 - 493 - 9.8 ... 1.99 GPC
51.2 - 517 - 10.1 ... 1.96 GPC
44.2 - 469 - 10.6 ... 2.26 GPC
55.7 - 512 - 9.2 ... 1.80 GPC
And what would be really nice, on top of real-time, would be 'trip' mpg. Push a button, start recording. Push the button at any other time or simply stop. And then see mpg over that period of time?
It has a real time gage where the tach would normally be. It moves around a lot but it does give you an indication on how to make significant "shifts". That is letting your foot off the gas shuts off the engine and the gage drops off to an E mode (well above 60mpg - it's actually infinity since the engine is not running)
Also, every time you fill up the display gage shows the "tank" mpg. You don't have to reset this.
Additionally, it has an ECO gage with three levels of economy. If you achieve a certain level of economy on the current trip, then when you push the button to stop the system, it will show you your ECO level. It also says "EXCELLENT" if you hit the top level.
There is a display that shows the energy flow and if you have the nav system there is also a screen for this as well there. Although there are so many useful screens for achieving high mpg's it's a schame more than one cannot be displayed at a time. Then again in traffic, pay attention to driving. The gages are good to teach you how to drive to maximize effeciency of the system. I'm used to high HP cars and relatively fast interstate driving (my life is about to change). These gages will reteach you on how to drive and pretty soon you don't really need to look at them to know how you're doing.
One other thing, not that your dealer cares, if Toyota indeed makes about 40,000 hybrids, then these will NOT be scarce. The only reason I pushed to be first was to get a state tax credit that runs out June 5th in WV. With the Fed tax credit you probably have until June 30th, maybe Sept 30 (you need to study that one). However saving $3000 on the deal by waiting two months and only getting a 50% tax credit would be a better deal. I won't deal with a gouging dealer. Unfortunately there are those that will and it keeps the practice continuing. At $3000 over MSRP, you'd better be more interested in saving the world rather than saving money because the economics just are not there.
Not so, human beings emit CO2, quite a lot of it for a 500 mile ride.
But on a 20 mile commute, I just can't see going 80 on the freeway. Since you are essentially "stopped" on the off-ramp, and for the final mile or so, your average speed drops very quickly. And how much time do you really save? 1 minute? 2 minutes (at best). Yet you've dropped your mpg at least 10%. I know that isn't a lot of money, but there's absolutely no benefit. So I consider that "wasteful." At least the long drive time savings is worth something.
People should slow down on their daily commutes and find some other way in their lives to gain back the "lost minute" - If U.S. commuters would drive even 65, we'd save a lot of gas and a lot of air pollution.
http://www.toyotanation.com/photos/showgallery.php/cat/771/page/2
Ignore the Camry "coupe" somebody photoshopped and posted on page 1 LOL
Speaking of "noise", any opinions yet on the stock sound system?
hardchemist-
Why wouldn't they put 17"s on it for you??
At the end, or beginning
Times - miles - Speed - FE/Fuel usage
20 min - 22 mi - 70 -- 45 mpg ( 2.22 GPC )
25 min - 20 mi - 55 -- 55 mpg ( 1.81 GPC )
27 min - 19 mi - 40 -- 65 mpg ( 1.54 GPC )
And I'm expecting (hoping) that, at a minimum, that the TCH has real-time MPG (I've seen this in the Prius).
pat
now do a little around town driving, at a normal pace
and then at a breakneck pace
not because I want the number, but just because it's fun to think of you doing this stuff for me!! :-)
seriously, the numbers are interesting
Can I ask you how she does on the hwy at 75? (and THAT is a serious question)
My commute to work is 96 miles one way. I am preparing for my TCH by leaving 10 to 15 minutes earlier and driving the interstate at 65 instead of 75 in the right lane (in my 92 Toyota pickup with 365,000 miles on it). Mileage has increased about 8% and the drive is more relaxing.
GET THE PRESSURE SENSORS FIRST!!!
You need to break down the factory wheels/tires and get the factory tire pressure sensors out of them for your new wheels. Or sell them to me. I also ordered a set of YokoMAMMA Avid V4S's in 225/50/17 to fit on Lexus GS300 Chrome Wheels. I just hope the sensors fit the Lexus wheels. They should-->Come on Toyota. Hopefully the sensors will fit your new wheels as well. They look nice from the picture. I couldn't imagine staring at the low tire warning light every day!
and trip computer of course.
Alex
I originally thought the TPMS was based on axle-level rotation monitors, and if one of your axles suddenly (or slowly) started rotating at a different rate than the other 3 then this would set off the system - no embedded sensor required.
Khdspyder, sorry to bug you again - but do you have your finger on this particular pulse? Are there actual tire or rim-based sensors that work with the TPMS??
THANKS everyone in these forums for tips, help, and shoulders to cry on!
http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/toyota_camryhybrid_2007/4789/model_user_reviews.h- tml;_ylt=AvwnLCjCIQvnnTVJjlAq3anm7c4F?sort=mh&trimid=19002&modelid=4789&reviewid- =4&reviewnum=3&start=1&show=atf
I also remember a brief mention of the TCH being a bit hard to keep at a steady highway speed. I do not remember where I heard that. Any owners care to comment?
Thanks!
Bill
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/local_links/links/335
You have to subscribe to download, but it isn't very expensive. They have the owner's manual, Nav system manual, new features manual, and several other maintenance notes.
Actually riding the ICE at 75 mpg or more will hurt FE/increase fuel usage dramatically for all vehicles by a factor of about 20-30% vis-a-vis 55 mph. I'd expect the FE to be about 40-ish and the GPC to be 2.5 rather than 2.0.
In additon what makes this opinion very suspect is the several references to the R&T test mentioning a lunging at 70 mph.
Here is the link to the R&T comparo and I don't find any reference to that at all
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=3430
One would have to wonder why this reviewer went out of the way to be so negative. We should all verify it for ourselves but with a very skeptical eye to this one review.
I think the transition will be more seamless if you use the cruise control and let the computer do its job.
I'll grant you, I would be surprised if it is as bad as might be inferred from the poster I linked to. On the other hand, as an example, I felt a bit claustrophobic with the FORWARD headroom in the car and never really found any mention among the pro reviewers. I have found only a few "regular" people who noticed it, too, but it turned out to be something I didn't want to live with. (I'm getting a base TCH, no roof.) I hope this minor nit is not one I find bothersome!