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Toyota Camry Hybrid



  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    Hey John,

    What do you think will happen to the hybrid sales when the tax credit limit is reached? Why is the tax credit needed anyway?


  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978

    Best way is to look for the largest and deal with fleet sales or internet manager.

    Look at their lot size and car inventory. Also, look into local financial information.

    One that sayes they sell a lot and won't tell you is SMALL.

    Ask Kdhspyder on this forumn. He is knowledgeable and sells Toyotas at a large delaership.

    Toyotas and Hondas are best,

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    Toyotas and Hondas are best

    Thanks for your unopinionated and unbiased point of view :P
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    Re. ADM . . . simply walk away, and don't buy the car. Early adopters always pay more for everything, plus they have to deal with any design or production bugs. Have patience, and the market will come to you. Don't buy anything at the leading edge of the curve.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978

    Great advice! I am thinking of buying an IBM PS2 :) and a 1980 Honda Civic GL 1500.

    Oh No! Passion doesn't ever overcome practicality. Ever wonder how a year old car that was absolutely the bet last year, is old technology andm ust be repalced wevery year when the new model comes out ??. Just wait until the 2008 Camry Hubrid comes out with so many new, must have features?

    The best time to buy is in October, go to the Toyota lot on October 31 on a rany day and pick the last 2007 Camry Hybrid they have on the lot nd you will finally get a great deal!


  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,112
    I'd give them the benefit of the doubt

    If the average driver gets combined 38 MPG with the TCH I would consider that good. Not great or equal to the same car with a diesel engine.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    That clears 60 in 7.3-7.9, and gets 35+ MPG?

    I'm all for Diesels coming back, but they have to be as good as Toyota Synergy Drive, with NVH suppression, and emissions, and right now, that's a tough road to hoe!

    The E320 Diesel can think about it, but it struggles to get out of the high 20's, which is still pretty good! PLUS it can't pass emissions in all 50 states.

    Even Honda is sucking wind, by comparison!

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    But let us hold onto that 38 mpg diesel until it is actually offered here.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,112
    I'm betting that Toyota, Honda, DCX & VW have them in the wings waiting for ULSD. My Passat Wagon has a lot more room than the Camry and I can get easy 40 MPG if I stay under 70-75 MPH. There is no way the Camry will handle as well as the Passat. I have driven both. The early reports are the 2007 is sloppier handling than the previous years. Lots of folks are getting EPA 37 MPG with their E320 CDI on the highway. Let's face it, who would buy an E320 CDI for trips to the mall? The Mercedes was designed for the open road. The Camry is a nice car to rent I would do it again.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    Actually, the best time to buy a new car is the end of December, especially December 24. You can almost name your price, at least that's been my experience - both as a buyer and as a new car salesperson.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    You skillfully dance around the lack of grunt in your Passat. I think it was timed by Edmunds at around 10 seconds? Handling in a family sedan gets you Mazda6 sales numbers.

    I don't see any new Passats with diesel power either. Not exactly an endorsement from the maker, is it?

    Good try, doh. ;)

  • Can someone PLEASE get me invoice pricing on the Hybrid?

    Thanks! :shades:
  • All reports I've read say how the '07 Camry is in a different handling league vs. prior years. Sloppier? No way. Much better? YES. And R&T tested the TCH specifically and it got 0.81g @ 60MPH in the slolam with 7.3 sec. 0 - 60. And that was with the 16" rims w/all-season tires! LOL

    Overall they were surprised how well the TCH did...Add on top of that that the hypermiler can likely get over 40 MPG with it, and the electric-only drive, and, get the idea....;)
  • njeraldnjerald Posts: 688
    Although it is not relevant for anything, manufacturers invoice should be $23,630 w/transportation. Dealers invoice s/b $450-550 more.

    Expect to pay MSRP or more for a few months.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    Toyota D4D 180 D-CAT if installed in the Camry should fill your prescription. D4D 180 D-CAT

    Toyota D4D

    Until such time as Toyota decides to offer diesel, the TCH is a very compelling car.
  • Thanks graphic guy. I have now been to three of the six area dealers, including two mentioned. There is a big variation in how many 07 TC's they have on their lots. I am assuming this will correlate somewhat with the (relative) number of TCH's they will get.

    I would be willing to drive up to 3 hours to a regional dealer that was larger but can't seem to get the data to know what region I am in and who the higher volume dealers are in my region.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    You are in the Cinci region, annie

    I'm guessing because I have not heard otherwise that the number of TCH's may depend on the relative number of Prius's being sold presently.

    E.g.: CA will likely get 5 times more than 2nd place VA, which is larger than MD, MA, WA, FL, TX, IL, NY/NJ, CT. This is based on Prius sales trends.

    However, the Camry is much more 'middle America' than the Prius so the reverse may be true. It's an interesting business analysis.. meanwhile you'd just like to place an order for a darn TCH.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    Mercedes 320 CDI does!

    rated at 27/37 mpg

    0-60= 6.8 seconds ( Auto Consumer Guide)

    Cost: ONLY $51,050
  • Come to think of it, I have sighted few Prii here in Cincinnati. I travel to California monthly and see so many out there. One small sample size indicator is my workplace's parking lot. 500 employees in this building. Mostly cars <7 yrs old. No Prii until six weeks ago. Now there are four Prii showing up daily. I'll have to find out who owns them and ask about how long they waited on a list.

    So if TCH follows this trend, the midwest may be bringing up the rear in the rollout. Darn! I haven't wanted to take the time for a fly/buy/drive. I could use a little more patience.

    I agree Camry fits the midwest personality. When I moved here from California 15 years ago it was mostly Detroit cars. Then the Camry made inroads, especially CE/LE. Once Georgetown KY plant opened up, it was like permission had been given to the unquestioning made-in-USA crowd to buy "Japanese". Then Honda, then Mazda, then Nissan started picking up.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    So as not to stretch the 'rules of the road' here if you wish you might contact me through GreenHybrid to see what options you have.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I already adressed that!

    The site you are on now tested the E350 TDI two years ago, and got only 30 MPG, 7.3 seconds, and no California Emissions Certification. Good, but a work in progress. Like a First-gen Prius.

    Plus the $51k preice tag, which is commendable, since gas E350 easily crest $50k.

    I like Mopar's concept better, showing Toyota can cover it's own back, if necessary.

    Anyone see the necessity?

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,112
    E320 CDI reviews
    Car & Driver
    Nevertheless, the diesel is quicker to 60 mph&#151;7.1 seconds versus 7.4&#151;and delivers more punch in low- and midrange sprints: 30 to 50 in 3.5 seconds, 50 to 70 in 4.8. The gas E320 recorded 3.8 and 5.4 seconds, respectively.

    Road & Travel
    The diesel takes 6.8 seconds to reach 60 mph; the V6 gas E-Class takes 7.1.

    The winners posted an astonishing 47 miles to the gallon.

    Canadian Driver
    another velvety upshift from the five-speed automatic transmission, and finally my rearview mirror was filled with the grille of the shocked Z28 driver that was (was!) beside me. Coming to a stop at the next light, both the Z28 driver and myself were left with little doubt of Mercedes's claim that the E320 CDI could reach 0-100 km/h in 7.0 seconds, one third of a second faster than the current E320 gasoline engine model.

    Woman Motorist
    The additional low-end torque gives the E320 CDI a faster 0-60 time -- 6.8 seconds -- than the gas powered version -- 7.1.

    However even when we drove normally, with modest awareness of our mileage, the E320 CDI got 35 to 37 miles-per-gallon on the highway. That&#146;s great!
  • Don't forget that once you add hands-free phone, navigation, and upgraded stereo to the E320 CDI Benz you're coming awfully close to $60K. $60K!!! It's waaaaay out in the stratosphere just bringing up that vehicle in this forum...Hello!!!
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    Toyota Winning Hybrid Race

    I'm impatient to be able to drive the TCH.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,112
    bringing up that vehicle in this forum...Hello!!!

    I don't find it near as outrageous as the Lexus GS450h. If that is not the biggest waste of automotive dollars, I cannot imagine it. A $65,000 wannabe luxo barge. Lexus has hit the bottom with that one. Proving that fools are still willing to throw money away. I will believe in hybrids when they are still in as perfect condition as our 1990 LS400, 16 years from now. I think Lexus lost their vision about 6 years ago.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    Gagprice said:
    " ... Proving that fools are still willing to throw money away. "

    Yeah think about people that are willing to by a hybrid model over a reqular engine model when they know there will be no monetary payback until 5-7 years or 100,000 miles. Are they fools also? Or are only the Luxury SUV oweners you mention that buy the better mileage, abiet higher performance, SUV ?




    P.S. - Finally saw a 2007 Hybrid commercail -- Good job Toyota :)
    P.S.S. - Darn Hobie Kayak rack cuts my mileage by 1.5 mpg at 80 mph. :cry:
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I'm guessing, eventually, Mercedes will stop producing E350, since the E320 CDI is so much better. ;)
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    With all this above MSRP talk going on for Camry Hybrids, it seems to me that the hybrid tax credit's main beneficiarys are the dealers, who of course do nothing to spur investment and innovation in efficient technologies.

    I can hear it already:

    Toyota dealer: "Sure, I might be charging $3000 over MSRP, but you'll get that back in the form of a credit when you file your taxes. So the cost of the car is actually only MSRP."

    Hybrid buyer: "Really? Sign me up! Here's a check for $3000 over MSRP."
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    This assumes..

    A. All buyers are sheep... 'Uhh OK I'll do that.'

    B) The tax credit is $3000 on a TCH... It isn't.

    What if there were dealers that never charged above sticker prices and some that even on the hottest vehicles charged under sticker?

    Shop. Be smart.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "A. All buyers are sheep... 'Uhh OK I'll do that.' "

    Actually, it doesn't have to assume that. There is no question that most dealers would mention and leverage the tax credit to charge higher prices for the Camry hybrid.

    The tax credit's main purpose was to spur innovation in the technology. High demand hybrids such as the Prius and Camry Hybrid do not need the tax credit, they will sell well without it.

    So when you add a tax credit ($2500 or $3000 or whatever) to an item that is already in high demand and short supply, the main beneficiary would be the retailer (the dealers in this case).

    Tax credits don't come out of thin air. Ultimately, it comes out of taxpayer's pockets (both hybrid buyers and non-hybrid buyers alike).
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