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Now I'm paying $160/mo for an 06 4 Runner Sport and an 07 Camry Hybrid. I plan to switch to AARP for about a $400/yr savings (I'm 52 years old, with $1000 ded collision)
0 deductible on collision
how much insurance? maybe he wants to protect his $10 million home from personal injury claims
and....he could be a smoker :-)
also depends what he drives and where he lives
it is certainly possible to pay that much on insurance for one car
and midcow's question was tongue-in-cheek, I believe
I certainly hope that you're right.
No tickets, no wrecks
One million umbrella $1,000,000
Full coverage at $500,000 / $250,000
Ininsured No-fault $100,000
$1,000 deductable
Four cars:
2006 Honda S2000
2005 Honda Accord EX V6
2002 Lexus IS300
2000 Toyota Avalon XLS
Again your cost may very, but as you can see apples do not always compare to oranges. When someone says "full-coverage" it can mean a lot of things.
Cruise On,
MidCow
Yet even at these speeds one can still save about 30-40% of the fuel that an equivalent ICE vehicle might use.
At lower speeds the driver may be able to turn off the ICE by letting up on the pedal and 'gliding' such as when coming to a stop or a slow down in traffic. Speeding up thereafter will almost always reengage the ICE. Without an advancement in technology and possible additional costs driving in purely EV mode is not feasible for long distances all at once.
It's not worth the effort to try to keep the vehicle in EV mode by light acceleration from a stop for example. The hypermilers who have taken stock Prius' to extremely high levels of fuel economy suggest that the most efficient way is just to accelerate normally up to crusing speed and let the technology do its job.
As wvgasguy has noted previously going overboard and looking to gain 1-2 mpg may end up saving you - a quart of gas per month? Just by driving the TCH in of itself will save you 30-40% due to the HSD technology. If you are a normal steady driver and were getting 25-28 mpg in your previous V6 you should be getting 38-40 mpg now. If you drive with a heavy foot most of the time consider driving more relaxedly.
Are you talking about battery technology, or something else? The TCH seems to have a large enough electric motor (~141-150 HP) to move the auto.
A 40hp motor would struggle to pull a 3600 pound car from a dead stop unless you accellerate VERY slowly!
To be honest, I don't know why they use such a large electric motor. Maybe it is just for a margin of safety (not using the full capacity of the electric motor). Or is this extra capacity used to generate additional power during regeneration? Or could the "generator" and the battery both supply current simultaneously?
I'm looking at the brochure, on the last page, it specifies: Hybrid System Net Power= 187hp (140 kW)
But what you say, is acurate...it doesn't give a hp figure for the electric motor, just 105 kW, and the "traction battery" output is 40hp (30kW)
Any electrical engineers around?
I noticed in some other specs that they do the same thing on the Prius:
ICE: 76hp (57kW)
Elect Motor: 67hp (50kW)
Battery: 28hp (21kW)
They list the total (net) at 110hp.
None of these numbers add up to 110! (76+28=104)
I'm looking at the brochure, on the last page, it specifies: Hybrid System Net Power= 187hp (140 kW)
But what you say, is acurate...it doesn't give a hp figure for the electric motor, just 105 kW, and the "traction battery" output is 40hp (30kW)
Any electrical engineers around?
You don't need horsepower when moving from a standstill, you need TORQUE and the MG2 has lots of them. Horsepower is torque multiplied by RPM. The traction battery has enough juice to provide torque at low speed.
The engine can produce enough wattage to supply the MG2 at higher speed.
$137.51 + shipping from toyotapartspeople.
However, those driving hybrids didn't seem to have those desperate fuel issues. As one Houston Chronicle employee driving a Toyota Prius blogged then, " FYI, [my wife] and I finally got to Palestine, TX (166 miles) at about 5:45 AM -- 30 hours after leaving our house in Clear Lake. The Prius still has about 1/4 tank of gas..." Another blogger on the Houston Chronicle website wrote, "My wife and I were part of the horde of people who left town last Thursday to avoid Hurricane Rita. Driving a Toyota Prius hybrid car, we made about 45 miles in nine hours time before turning back. During that time we consumed less than two gallons of gasoline, all the time in the comfort of an air conditioned car. I can't [speak highly enough] for the Prius as the ideal evacuation car."
Having purchased a TCH in July, I started thinking about that evacuation and began fumbling over the idea of how to compare the Prius' performance to how the Camry hybrid would have performed. Admittedly, though, I'm terrible with numbers, so I thought I'd post this question for you all, the ones I've learned so much from over the past couple of months...
If my in-laws would have had a TCH during their evacuation, how would they have fared?
The Prius has an 11.9 gallon gas tank and gets 60 mpg (in city)...
- During the escape, he went 166 miles on 9 gallons = 18.44 mpg's.
The Camry has a 17.2 gallon gas tank and gets 40 mpg (in city)...
- During the escape, how many gallons would the Camry have had left?
Thanks much in advance!
Using your city figures and simple ratios:
18.44/60*40 = 12.29 mpg on the Camry.
166/12.29 = 13.5 gallons used. 3.7 left.
If you use 50 mpg for the Prius which may be more reasonable then:
18.44/50*40 = 14.75 mpg on the Camry
166/14.75 = 11.25 gallons used. 5.95 left.
But since that seems difficult, I did a search for you in the search box "slide". The best message numbers for just the sliding arm rest are : 2392, 2393, 2385, 2388, 2389, 2390, 2391, 2434,2455,2457,2458,2459,2499,2638,2693,2824,2825,2829,2830,2831
Slide-On!
MidCow
The store on ebay is
http://stores.ebay.com/Price-Toyota-Scion-Parts-Department
In those circumstances, my car is completely free of any squeals.
1 HP = 746 W = 0.746 kW
The battery is rated at 30 kW, close to 40 hp.
When the car is going at normal speeds, and when the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) revs are moderate to high, most of the power from the ICE goes through MG1, where it becomes electricity, to MG2, where it goes back to mechanical power, and on to the wheels. This is why MG2 is rated close to the ICE power rating (140 hp MG2 vs 147 hp ICE).
The information that follows is based on my own current measurements at the battery.
The full battery power is used only for short periods, during strong acceleration (such as intial start or for passing).
In order to save the battery for the 8-year term of the warranty, the computer directs battery charging and discharging at 20 amperes or less (5 kW or 6.5 hp). That is why you can barely accelerate without the ICE running.
Also, the air conditionning compressor draws from that 5 kW budget, so there is barely any power left for going at 40 mph against a wind if the outdoor temprature is high.
But another question:
If I understand what you are saying (I think that I should as I am an engineer myself!)...at medium/high revs, the ICE is mostly generating electricity, and then sending that power directly to the traction motor, rather than directly driving the wheels?
This seems like an unnecessary engergy conversion - mechanical -> electrical -> mechanical - rather than directly driving the wheels. Doesn't this extra conversion impart some inefficiencies?
Thanks again
So why in the world would you convert " ICE goes through MG1, where it becomes electricity, to MG2, where it goes back to mechanical power, and on to the wheels. "
That is one reason, the main reason, that the Toyota HSD systems are rated less highway mileage than city mileage.
YMMV,
BSEE MBA
MidCow
Maybe that is why the big error in the EPA HSD city mileage rating. Toyota calculated the city mileage assuming all the power transfer was 100% efficient.
"Toyota calculated the city mileage assuming all the power transfer was 100% efficient."
ROTFLMAO - That is really really funny!
It is a design limitation of the current HSD system, PERIOD!
The circumvention is to ty to utilize the wasted spins of MG1 and MG2 ( which must always be spinning except for that brief assymptotic point when the transition from spinnee (G) to spinnor (M) occurs. The power conversion inefficincy is merely a by-product of a poor transmission design ( of course there are those Prius bigots that say the HSD is not a tranmission and that the Prius is transmission-less). I predict you will see a HSD replacement very soon, with the 2008 models or at the latest 2009.
The again the whole EPA rating system is pretty archaic; i mean no one averages 48 mph on the highway. But right now EPA ratings and actual testing is the best metric we have to gauge expected mileage.
having said all that the TCH is a decent car. I am kind of suprise at the high price though!
YMMV,
MidCow
Not only archaic. Too much is left for the automakers. My letter of response from the EPA said they only test 15% of the new model cars. The rest they trust the auto makers to follow the tests as they have laid them out. And, they DO NOT divulge which cars they actually test.
Glad I could give you a good laugh :shades:
No - the PSD (power split device) transfers about 70% of the engines power directly driving the wheels. About 30% drives MG1. MG1 generates electricity that is then used to drive MG2 (traction motor) and recharge the battery pack as needed. Yes there is some inefficiency, but it's really quite small. The ballancing of power from MG1 and MG2 gives the PSD an infinitely variable virtual gearing, and elimitates the need (and power loss!) for clutches and a torque converter.
I can't seem to get better mileage in town. My trip mileage goes down while in the city and up when on the highway. Thankfully I mainly do highway so it is about 42 mpg by calculation of my first fillup since buying the Camry Hybrid (562.6 miles, 13.378 gals).
How do you get greater city mileage?
May be hard to beat your 42 mpg. That's pretty good. Posters in heavy traffic cities are expressing low (relatively) numbers. I've found it difficult to compare peoples milages because cities are different. My idea of a city is a smaller city where I may have 6 or 7 light from one end to another. I don't live near a LA type city or even the Pittsburgh area. Basically though the tips are the same, the results will be different based on "your" city.
1) Run on EV (under 41 mph)when possible
2) Accelerate normal and then let off the gas to get on EV
3)Stay in the right lane so you won't feel intimidated to goose it and go.
4) Anticipate stops and coast
I really think the key to all types of driving is once "at speed" lift your foot and don't apply any more pressure to the throttle than is necessary to maintain the speed you want. When throttle is not needed (like an aproaching stop or down hill grade) lift your foot.
IMO there are at least 6 different notions of what 'city' driving is to each driver. I see them as...
A) crawling out of Manhattan through the tunnels and bridges at 10 mph;
C) driving through a congested commercial suburban area such as a huge mall complex;
D) rolling through a surburban neighborhood @ 25 mph such as on a Sunday looking at houses;
E) going from stop sign to stop sign to stop sign on the way home from work in your local neighborhood;
F) short trips 'in town' to work or school or shop.
A - D will likely get you better fuel economy than E while F is absolute death on fuel economy. The difference as I see it is continual rolling forward at a slowish speed with little or no demand on the ICE, a Sunday drive, and few if any stops.
I am amazed that most drivers are finding that they are getting 40 mpg or more at highway speeds of 70 or higher.
WARNING: The weather will be changing soon and your FE will suffer by about 10% from Nov through Mar.
kdhspyder...I agree with all you said, but only partially with the above statement.
This doesn't apply in areas (like Tucson, AZ) where we use the A/C continuously March-Oct, and not in Nov-Mar. (We rarely need the car heater Nov-Mar either!...so WHY was I required to buy heated mirrors and seats? Oh well...prehaps the next owner of my car will live in the snow country, but not me!)
I am reminded when I make an overly broad statement like the one above that all generalizations are wrong :surprise: .
Tks for the pick up.
I've posted before that I think A/C takes a relatively big hit on FE. I've been pooh-poohed by others who say this isn't true, that A/C on ECO shouldn't lessen FE by much, if any. So... not being very savvy as to what makes the things under the hood work (or in the case of the TCH, the things in the trunk, too) why would running the heater take 10% off FE but running the A/C doesn't? Or is it not just the heater that affects FE when it's cold out?
I'm in Houston and REALLY looking forward to the arrival of November (if we're lucky) so I can turn off the A/C and see if I can get better FE. My 17 mile, 45-60 minute commute is a combination of A, B and E in 95-100+ degree (humid) weather and so far my 6 tank average is 35.9 mpg.
What I wanted to explain was why MG2 had such a high rating of 105 kW : It is a "worst case" design for conditions where the transmission (PSD) reduction ratio is high and the ICE spins much faster than the PSD's crown gear. In such conditions most of the power flows through MG1 and MG2.
In terms of efficiency, it is not a bad design, because in stabilized speed conditions the ICE and the PSD crown gear spin at closer speeds, and a smaller percentage of power flows through the less efficient MG1-MG2 double conversion.
Now for cold conditions : I haven't experienced winter in my TCH yet. But as a Canadian, I do know that when it was 30°F below 0, my '96 Avalon took a couple of miles before it would reach normal temperature. During that time span, in order to control emissions, I know my TCH ICE will never stop. That will impact fuel economy to some level.
Also, the TCH ICE is programmed to re-start if the heater has taken too much heat out the block (that is of the parameters affected by the ECO switch, when in heating mode).
The Prius and other hybrids just brought these impacts into clearer focus.
a) winter gas. There are additives put into gasoline in the winter to help reduce air pollution. As a result it doesn't burn as efficiently. -2 to 3%
b) heating the cabin. The reverse of AC but the heat is generated off the ICE.
c) heating the engine liquids. The extreme situation is in Canada, MN, ND, ME where engine block heaters are required.
The major benefit of the HSD system is that it allows the ICE to shut down or go to idle as much as 30-40% of the time while driving. In winter due to the need to generate heat the ICE runs longer and shuts down less often. Ergo it burns more fuel. There is about a 10-15% loss of FE in winter in my observations. But this is true of all vehicles. It's just more noticeable in the hybrids since most have the in-vehicle means to measure the losses with some precision - and - a 15% loss on a Prius is 7 mpg ( 51 mpg to 44 mpg ) whereas a 15% loss on say a Sequoia is 2 mpg ( 16 mpg to 14 mpg ).
Bob, I hope you're off on that 15%. If my 38.8 drops to 33 I may have to put the TCH in the garage for the winter. Hey, I forgot I have a 4 Runner for winter use! I may be able to take over the GreenHybrid chase to max FE after all. Then again I still can't compete with flatlanders in the warm south.
Don't forget to disconnect the battery, or run it every other week or so...
We seldom have a loooong cold snap so I'll take it into town every so often. It will be interesting to compare my tips with Fall weather (no A/C) and winter driving. I have a 125 mile trip I make often and should be able to get good comparison numbers for the seasons.
http://oregonstate.edu/~tongt/camry/
I make no claim that these are correct - just thought I'd post it for those of you so inclined. Lots of .pdf files
Would you mind posting the part number? That way the forum will have two of the four part numbers. (The one I posted for ash non-leather and your bisque leather.)