In fact this week, I accidentally left on one of my dome lights on during work....I hit the keyless remote: car unlocked. Lights were still on. Went to start the car: Car started and ran for second then died. I was amazed that my battery wasn't totally dead.
So you left a 8w bulb on for 8 hrs and it did or did not kill the car? That has much more to do with the age of the battery than anything to do with the car at all, and it sounds like it still died?
My brother just got '08 Lancer. Nice car if you like the "fun stuff" (accessories,) 1.5 liter engine stinks (Remember I'm used to my 2.4 161hp VVT-i),
I thought you had to get the 2.0l 150 hp Lancer GTS to get the 18" wheels. Anyway, I am impressed you could notice the 2 tenths of a second difference from 0-60. I was wondering if you also noticed the Scions' 60' additional stopping distance, or the lower skidpad and cornering numbers.
Also, if you are into sporty looking coupes, perhaps it would be better to compare the Eclipse as opposed to sedan.
I think while the Mitsu and Scion are both trying to look sporty, the Civic actually is somewhat sporty.
I heard from Scion fan sites that Mitsu's are famous for terrible paint.
Makes you wonder what they say about the Scion on the Mitsu sites, no?
Sorry Mitsubisi owners (I used to own '00 Galant).
My '89 Mitsubishi Galant(car of the year at the time) was around the 180 or 190k mark when I got the '96 Contour SE MTX in '98. The biggest repair it had was a clutch replacement for $450. And that old Galant gave 2k towards the Contour's 10k price.
I didn't see any link to report fuel mileage to the EPA on their site.
Its a link on the main page titled something like "see MPG from drivers like you"
If you price out both of them with comparable equipment, that is base Smart with AC & power steering, vs. Base Fit with those items standard, I regret to say that the Honda comes out to be $128 more,
The base Smart with radio, A/C and power steering comes in at around a grand less than the fit and it has stability control and traction control which I believe the standard Fit does not have.
Seems for a second commuter car the Smart would be a better car than a Fit.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Is a strange thing. It reminds me of people that are into sports. I see the reasoning but for the most part it has never caught me. I do have prejudices however I know. I have never forgiven VW for the three examples they produced and I happened to buy. It may not have been the cars themselves as much as their sales and service but they have more than likely lost me forever. And sales and service is about people more than about the machine or product.
Still getting back on track we can see that there is no universal consensus as to the correct size vehicle. Most consumers prefer something in the Accord Camry size and that is unlikely to change over the next ten years. I am sure as a society we will prefer that they work harder on improving the fuel mileage to our favorite sized vehicles to us switching to smaller less comfortable vehicles. Yes, sub compacts may be practical and the Smart may even be practical to some but US consumers are more interested in comfort, and a bit more power. That is why the xD has more power than the xA and the xB got more power as well. Us consumers also like their SUVs and trucks and that isn't likely to change either. Trucks and SUVs may have to change but they have changed some already. For the last few years trucks have simply been getting bigger it may be time they got smaller as SUVs seem to be getting. But that is a far cry from switching to sub compacts.
Where are you getting these numbers? The base SMART doesn't have AC or power steering, you have to add for that. That's where you are $1,000 short I think. I see both AC and "electric power steering" as options on the list.
The SMART sounds like it needs traction control badly in snow, from what I've read, so that's a good thing for it to include.
Edmunds, Base Smart is about $11,500 A/C, radio and power steering add about $1500 to it making about 13K. The Fit starts at just under $14K, you do the math.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Yep. Getting a smaller car for the sake of it wouldn't be smart. Fit (and like) is a car that can be a lot more than pure commuter cars. Fit is fit enough to be a first car for many, and makes for a good second car as well, given the versatility of the package.
While we are drawing similarities (second car, fuel economy, size, price etc), the more I think about it, the more contrast I see between Fit and Smart. Smart fails badly in the utility aspect, while I would get Fit over even an Accord for that reason alone!
As ex '06 Scion xA owner..I was getting 39-40 mpg. I was driving close to 45 miles one way to work and I only had to fill up once week. It was good little car but being young...I wanted something more better & something more youthful so I went with a '07 Scion tC. Now I fill up about twice or even three times driving around & commuting to work. Scion are just as good as Toyota's...I've done some stupid things with both cars and they seem they want to start up the next day. In fact this week, I accidently left on one of my dome lights on during work....I hit the keyless remote: car unlocked. Lights were still on. Went to start the car: Car started and ran for second then died. I was amazed that my battery wasn't totally dead.
This is all part of the buyers happy experience, a satisfied customer is what the companies strive for "true believers" in their products. My wife likes the Scion xD. I think she'd be better off with a Civic but she really wants a MINI (unlikely to get one) But it's great when you can really enjoy what you own. For me I buy cars for the long haul. My friend gets bored quickly with cars once they are out of warranty or sooner he trades them in. we all have brands we like and brands we hate. I have brands I will never buy again, others maybe and some of course. Mitsubishi has come a long way but they still have work to do to make a full comeback. Glad you enjoy your tC,
I completely agree, a family's 2nd car has to be able to step in and do duty if the 1st car goes down which is why I would never consider the smart, not to mention it's terrible winter reputation which just wouldn't do in my part of the country. That's why our next car will probably be a Honda Fit. It would be a squeeze when our 3rd child comes along but it's utility would be enough if our 1st vehicle were out of commission.
Unfortunately, a lot of people's first vehicle is a Tahoe or Suburban so in their minds a 2nd vehicle HAS to be a full size 4 dr pickup because you never know when you will have to pull a mobile home or put a Clydesdale in the bed of your truck.
Or for many the second car has to have AWD. Plus if you are a two car family why would you want your wife to have less of a car than you have?
If I lived in the city I can see why someone might get a Fit but as a second car a Civic would seem more practical. The Yaris is still just a touch homely for me and doesn't offer much over the Corolla as a second car. The Civic and the Fit get the same fuel mileage and yet you get 31 HP more with the Civic. Plus I think you can buy aftermarket parts at the local 7/11. Pep boys and Auto zone stock cold air intakes for Civics on their shelves. If fuel mileage is your goal get a Hybrid or even a hybrid Civic. For me I am beginning to think a good second car would be a Rav4 or a Impreza Hatchback. It snowed last night and I don't feel much like putting chains on the FWD sedan. I will be looking for another 4x4 truck next week.
I'm just saying...I rather own my tC than '08 Lancer because it's better buy. "More bang for buck." I don't care about the "Fun things;" I care more what's under the hood than 40 GB hard drive music server. It's not like I said "Mitsubishi's suck!" Even my brother complained about the engine since he did own '04 Ralliart Lancer (which had 2.4 liter/161hp engine) then before that he had '02 OZ Editon Lancer. He's been in four accidents with both Lancers; came out with only bruises.
My oldest sister owns '04 Galant...she already has 115k miles on it. She's been in two accidents with it. She never had problems with it.
They are good cars: in fact when I was shopping for my tC. My sales consultant and I were talking about Mitsubishi's. First thing; she told me about them was "They are built like Japanese tanks." She used to sell them so I know she knew what she was talking about. Our family has VERY good business relationship with our local Mitsubishi dealer since we did buy six cars from them. I bet if I was to lose my tC, I had to buy new car with major negitive...they would find a way to get me into Mitsu.
I don't hate them. I actually wanted to buy Lancer EVO when I was shopping for better car. But I figured it would of been very hard to learn stick-shift on one of them. I wasn't worried about Insurance; I was more worried about what big brother would of said ( jealously), how quick I would need to buy new clutch, and how soon my sales consultant (who sold me both my Scion's. We became good business friends doing both deals) would kill me. LOL I could of gotten '06 EVO RS for $24k at the dealer about 4 grand more than my fully loaded accessory tC.
My wife doesn't have less car than I have. She drives a CR-V and I drive a Prizm. When we move up to the Odyssey she'll drive that as well.
The reason I like the Fit is the utility, and while the Civic currently gets 30 more HP it won't when the next generation Fit comes out. Plus the Fit will allow me to put my 100 lb. dog in the back in her kennel when I take her to the vet; can't do that w/a Civic.
I've never been convinced by hybrid technology and until I am I won't spend the $5000 premium. I get better mileage w/my Prizm than many people get w/their a hybrid and economics come into play at some point.
Why would you need chains??? I've never driven w/chains and we have bad weather from November to April. A FWD sedan is your BEST bet when the roads get nasty.
I'm just saying...I rather own my tC than '08 Lancer because it's better buy. "More bang for buck." I don't care about the "Fun things;" I care more what's under the hood than 40 GB hard drive music server.
No worries, just gotta realize what makes it a better buy for your might not make it a better buy for others. Its cool you have something that meets your needs and you feel good about driving.
California is not your typical Snow state and in the mountains when it snows they require chains. You can get by with studded tires if you live up in the mountains but only from October through April. I have had good luck with FWD as well. Better than RWD for going up hilly streets because the weight is over the drive wheels. But AWD and 4WD get a pass by the CHP at the chain check stations. In my opinion after 19 years in the Big Bear, Lake Arrowhead area 4WD works best then AWD followed by FWD and lastly RWD. 4WD gets the nod because of ground clearance and low range for deeper snow. When you see that third track from your pumpkin in the snow you are about finished.
So if I were going to travel much and might get caught in the winter at the Very least I would want a 4X4 and a AWD second car. With the snow we got last night I wasn't going anywhere till the ice melted with our FWD sedan.
Are you telling me the Fit is already looking to add 31 more HP next time out? Sort of proves a point.
So if I were going to travel much and might get caught in the winter at the Very least I would want a 4X4 and a AWD second car. With the snow we got last night I wasn't going anywhere till the ice melted with our FWD sedan.
Our AWD wagon and FWD sedan will stay parked until the ice melts in SE MI. The freeways were fine but our sub-division (and especially our street and driveway) were frightening. I wouldn't want to be out there without snows.
I agree with staying home if you can. I had some obligations at the hospital today so I had to borrow a friends Suburban for the two or three hours I needed to be out. Still even though I would rather not be out on the road in the snow, if I have to be out in it I want at least AWD. It may only become an Issue five or six times a year but on the days you need it having all wheels pulling beats only two.
Are you telling me the Fit is already looking to add 31 more HP next time out? Sort of proves a point.
No, the Fit is adding about 12 HP because they are switching from the old VTEC engine to the new iVTEC. There will still be a 20 HP gap. The current Fit engine is already an old one and the next generation one is more fuel efficient and on par w/the more powerful Civic engine, which is bigger for a bigger car.
So if I were going to travel much and might get caught in the winter at the Very least I would want a 4X4 and a AWD second car. With the snow we got last night I wasn't going anywhere till the ice melted with our FWD sedan.
Granted, if one were going to drive a lot in the mountains I would advise AWD. In any case if you are driving places where you transfer case is dragging then you are driving when and where you shouldn't be. And if you shouldn't be driving w/one car you shouldn't be driving w/two.
Our AWD wagon and FWD sedan will stay parked until the ice melts in SE MI. The freeways were fine but our sub-division (and especially our street and driveway) were frightening. I wouldn't want to be out there without snows.
Seriously you leave you AWD car at home?! :confuse: I mean why do that a decent set of snows and it will tackle anything. Upper New England we have lots of hills and we sure get a lot of snow and I've had RWD cars with good snow tires and no problems. My Rex with snows has gone through weather that stops most SUV's. Now FWD is only good in light snow but with snow tires it's ok as well. Only deep snow is an issue for the subie.
Compacts down 3% in the same timeframe, full-size pick-ups down some 20%. Hmm, if I wanted to draw spurious conclusions from incomplete data, I wonder what I could come up with here.....?
:-P
(Of course, subcompacts are still under 3% of the overall market, but hey, there's only a handful of models on sale so far!)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As long as the Federal Reserve continue to crash the dollar to save it's banker buddies, gas will continue to get more expensive. I hate to be bailing out greedy bankers. But at least it's getting the bloated unnecessary SUV's off the road. I saw another Suburban upside down yesterday blocking the highway. How symbolic.
Seriously you leave you AWD car at home?! I mean why do that a decent set of snows and it will tackle anything. Upper New England we have lots of hills and we sure get a lot of snow and I've had RWD cars with good snow tires and no problems. My Rex with snows has gone through weather that stops most SUV's. Now FWD is only good in light snow but with snow tires it's ok as well. Only deep snow is an issue for the subie.
The snows are on order. They should be here this week. The RE92s are about half gone so we will put them on the bench for winter and bring them back out in summer. Its not so much I am afraid of losing it in the Subie, (or the Accord, for that matter) but I am totally freaked about some moron in an Explorer (or similar) creaming my Subie and taking out my family.
on them on the net and in magazine and when it was all said and done the general concensus was that they are generally pretty reliable. shifty said they've improved in the last several years, too(didn't think I would remember you posting that on Edmunds, do ya shifty!!)and that 10 year and 100,000 mile Warranty a la Finbarr O'Neill didn't hurt, either. My Lancer GTS has needed one recall(rear door window sash recall to improve crashworthiness at particular crash impact angles)and it has needed two flat tires repaired in 8 1/2 months of ownership.
BTW-I have had some co-workers look me straight in the eye and tell me that my Lancer will last forever. "Forever?", I would ask.
"Forever!" was their response. I have had two of them state this and many, many others compliment me on my Lancer GTS package overall. I am someone still learning of Mitsubishi...those comments came the week of the purchase back in March of 2007.
I will tell y'all this, I will not hold back in reporting anything and everything about my Lancer GTS for 2008 from Mitsubishi, good or bad. So far I am much more than just pleased with the car.
Oh, and andeet, you could have bought a 2006 Mitsubishi EVO IX MR for only $24,000? Whew! I saw one for sale sharing showroom space with the Lancer GTS I ended up buying that was a 6-speed in Silver color selling for $36,000. Brand new but a 2006 model. Don't know if it was an "MR", though. But stevecebu would be interested in that car, if he is gonna make it back to the U.S. anytime soon, too. He is a frequent contributor here on Edmunds over in the Mitsubishi Lancer forums.
I think his wife and he were leaning towards a Subie as well but maybe I'll rattle his cage and inquire as to the latest with him. $24,000 sounds like an insider deal and not one for the general public, actually. Do you have inside tracking on deals on new Mitsubishi wheels, andeet?
What I posted was results of 3 years of warranty claims as conveyed to me by a Mitsubishi dealer I know. The # and seriousness of the claims was very low. The Mitsus are performing very very well in the field these days. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to a friend, if they like the style, etc.
I loved mine. I think the late 80s were a turning point for Mitsubishi, and then the late 90s was a less fortunate one. Now it seems they are regrouping again.
I don't know, some of the early Diamond Star stuff was great. I could just about beat myself silly for not getting an Eclipse GSX/Eagle Talon TSI AWD/Plymouth Laser AWD or Galant VR4 when I had the chance. I think it was when they killed those cars and came out with the Sebring etc and the Eclipse took on the role I described earlier. Maybe as Chrysler got more control they screwed things up wrong. Yeah I see your point especially towards the end.
Oh, and andeet, you could have bought a 2006 Mitsubishi EVO IX MR for only $24,000? Whew! I saw one for sale sharing showroom space with the Lancer GTS I ended up buying that was a 6-speed in Silver color selling for $36,000. Brand new but a 2006 model. Don't know if it was an "MR", though. But stevecebu would be interested in that car, if he is gonna make it back to the U.S. anytime soon, too. He is a frequent contributor here on Edmunds over in the Mitsubishi Lancer forums.
The dealer that my family buys from had four EVOs on the lot at the time; Nov '06. It was nice, just base Red EVO. I'm thinking they were selling it that low just to get rid of it or maybe it was '05?? I know if I went in there; they would of gotten me even more of a deal. Again, big brother would of killed me and I would of gotten my license taken away within few months for street racing. Cause I know all the locals in their rice burner Civics would challange me and being natural competitive I would of been stupid enough to go for it.
It's bad enough with my tC. I get cops staring all the time when I get off of work at 3:30-4:00 am...I'm not even doing 10 over and they still speed up to me.
Is Mitsu has plans bringing back the Ralliart Lancer for '08? Cause I'm wondering what Toyota has plans with the replacement of Scion tC? I heard rumors about a Scion xR; a four door sporty, that is Rally insipired to take over in '09? Maybe Toyota's idea for the Ralliart Lancer competitor? tC has been competitor for '04-'06 Ralliarts. I remember my brother comparing the tC's VVT-i with Ralliart Lancer's MIVEC when I let him drive it couple of times. Same power.
I'm serious about this people think it's least 200 hp when it's barely 160. I had a GTO, BMW try to race me but I just let them go by. My TRD Muffler is just for looks and my personal enjoyment meaning I like hearing it. But when I step on the gas rough...my TRD Cold Air Intake says differ; that's when I'm just letting the horses loose once in a blue moon.
There are aftermarket turbos that run for seven grand that could make stock tCs to 310. I'm not that crazy to buy one cause that tC will be hard to keep down on speed.
The snows are on order. They should be here this week. The RE92s are about half gone so we will put them on the bench for winter and bring them back out in summer. Its not so much I am afraid of losing it in the Subie, (or the Accord, for that matter) but I am totally freaked about some moron in an Explorer (or similar) creaming my Subie and taking out my family.
Oh I see yeah, no way would I drive in my area without snow tires on any car including AWD. I prefer Nokian tires and wouldn't swap them out for anything else! Not much you can do about the other idjits on the road. Most SUV drivers only care when their insurance company won't pay up for their bad driving or when they have to pump gas. I'm not opposed to SUV's for people who need them, but being in an SUV doesn't guarantee safety. In the snow and ice not much helps. I wonder how a Mazdaspeed 3 will do in the snow. The STI looks great but hard to justify the extra $$$$! The MINI looks great but also has issues especially with the RFT's. All the good choices are coming out next year! Sham I can't wait. :sick:
I was surprised at how portly the tC is, combined w/only 160 HP out of that 2.4. It should be easy to get 200HP and cut the weight on that car. All show no go.
Good point on the rental cars - that's the obvious way to go, we did it for a family trip a few year a go. What a bunch of idiots! Of course, if they talked to reasonable people, there'd be no article...
Which car isn't these days? Mazda3 w/2.3 is just as portly. And both cars have more power than the not so long ago "sport" Mazda 626/V6 which was even more portly.
Would you rather have MX-5 or Mazda6's motor in that Scion?
How about a MazdaSpeed3 engine? Or a '92-95 Toyota MR2/Clica All-Trac Turbo engine, back when Toyota used to make sports cars? Maybe an SR20DET out of a Sunny or Silvia.
Basically you have a sub-compact with a small, hard to access back seat that is about as fast as my 4 cylinder Accord (not that it isn't a snooze-fest). It handles about the same and looks like roughly the same mileage.
One of the used cars I was looking at to commute with was a Mazda MX3 GS with the 1.8l 24V V6. It reminds me a lot of the Scion, actually. The deal with the Mazda though is you drop in the 2.5l V6 from a Probe/MX6/626 and go from 130hp to 170.
"One of the used cars I was looking at to commute with was a Mazda MX3 GS with the 1.8l 24V V6. It reminds me a lot of the Scion, actually. The deal with the Mazda though is you drop in the 2.5l V6 from a Probe/MX6/626 and go from 130hp to 170."
Now you are talking. I had a 626 and that was one nice little motor.
While we may be similar in age, we seem to differ in how we feel. :P I haven't limited myself to very few ways to appreciate things. I, for one, would rather have Civic Si than Scion tC, for pure involvement factor. You, might prefer to have something with more torque (and easier to drive), perhaps? :shades:
If you were impressed with 165 HP/161 lb-ft (old SAE standard) in a 3100 lb Mazda, you shouldn't complain about a 161 HP/162 lb-ft (new SAE standard) propelling a 2950 lb Scion. Is it a car I would pick? No. Its appeal (or lack of) has little to do with the engine being shared with Camry but everything to do with the competition and choices around.
Mitsubishi was on the right track earlier in this decade, but a few things hurt them the most. And that wasn't necessarily due to association with Chrysler (which had existed for a long time). They struggled in Japan due to a few major issues around business ethics, poor reliability compared to major Japanese automakers, and eventual decision to grow up the Eclipse and kill Galant's appeal with last redesign would just put things to rest.
Now they are retrying, and in a market that is fiercely competitive. And this might very well be the last attempt to get up and be able to walk. Odds are stacked against the brand, however, with Korean brands on the rise and their aggressive marketing.
I haven't limited myself to very few ways to appreciate things. I, for one, would rather have Civic Si than Scion tC, for pure involvement factor.
Oh I definitely agree. I would much rather have a $23k Civic SI sedan than a $16k Scion tC. In fact, I would rather have an almost comparably priced Civic LX sedan than a tC.
If you were impressed with 165 HP/161 lb-ft (old SAE standard) in a 3100 lb Mazda, you shouldn't complain about a 161 HP/162 lb-ft (new SAE standard) propelling a 2950 lb Scion.
I was more interested in the 220 HP/192 lb-ft (old SAE standard) in the Mazda6 or the 270hp/280 lb-ft MazdaSpeed6. The Scion lacks any advantage over my current Accord, sharing similar acceleration times and handling numbers.
I don't place such an emphasis on horsepower or torque, I think the tC, Accord, and Mazda6 are all powerful enough with their 4 cylinder engines (and some more-so with their 6 cylinder engines) but on responsiveness, steering feel, and handling capabilities. The Scion seems to appeal to younger drivers stylistically, and offers good safety features at its pricepoint, as well as Toyota durability. It has its place.
Comments
So you left a 8w bulb on for 8 hrs and it did or did not kill the car? That has much more to do with the age of the battery than anything to do with the car at all, and it sounds like it still died?
My brother just got '08 Lancer. Nice car if you like the "fun stuff" (accessories,) 1.5 liter engine stinks (Remember I'm used to my 2.4 161hp VVT-i),
I thought you had to get the 2.0l 150 hp Lancer GTS to get the 18" wheels. Anyway, I am impressed you could notice the 2 tenths of a second difference from 0-60. I was wondering if you also noticed the Scions' 60' additional stopping distance, or the lower skidpad and cornering numbers.
Also, if you are into sporty looking coupes, perhaps it would be better to compare the Eclipse as opposed to sedan.
I think while the Mitsu and Scion are both trying to look sporty, the Civic actually is somewhat sporty.
I heard from Scion fan sites that Mitsu's are famous for terrible paint.
Makes you wonder what they say about the Scion on the Mitsu sites, no?
Sorry Mitsubisi owners (I used to own '00 Galant).
My '89 Mitsubishi Galant(car of the year at the time) was around the 180 or 190k mark when I got the '96 Contour SE MTX in '98. The biggest repair it had was a clutch replacement for $450. And that old Galant gave 2k towards the Contour's 10k price.
Its a link on the main page titled something like "see MPG from drivers like you"
If you price out both of them with comparable equipment, that is base Smart with AC & power steering, vs. Base Fit with those items standard, I regret to say that the Honda comes out to be $128 more,
The base Smart with radio, A/C and power steering comes in at around a grand less than the fit and it has stability control and traction control which I believe the standard Fit does not have.
Seems for a second commuter car the Smart would be a better car than a Fit.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Still getting back on track we can see that there is no universal consensus as to the correct size vehicle. Most consumers prefer something in the Accord Camry size and that is unlikely to change over the next ten years. I am sure as a society we will prefer that they work harder on improving the fuel mileage to our favorite sized vehicles to us switching to smaller less comfortable vehicles. Yes, sub compacts may be practical and the Smart may even be practical to some but US consumers are more interested in comfort, and a bit more power. That is why the xD has more power than the xA and the xB got more power as well. Us consumers also like their SUVs and trucks and that isn't likely to change either. Trucks and SUVs may have to change but they have changed some already. For the last few years trucks have simply been getting bigger it may be time they got smaller as SUVs seem to be getting. But that is a far cry from switching to sub compacts.
The SMART sounds like it needs traction control badly in snow, from what I've read, so that's a good thing for it to include.
Edmunds, Base Smart is about $11,500 A/C, radio and power steering add about $1500 to it making about 13K. The Fit starts at just under $14K, you do the math.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
SMART with AC power steering and radio is $13815
FIT with same options (plus more features that are standard) is $14316
So we are $500 difference for a faster, bigger, more freeway capable subcompact car with a great reputation and dealers all over the world.
No contest IMO.
While we are drawing similarities (second car, fuel economy, size, price etc), the more I think about it, the more contrast I see between Fit and Smart. Smart fails badly in the utility aspect, while I would get Fit over even an Accord for that reason alone!
This is all part of the buyers happy experience, a satisfied customer is what the companies strive for "true believers" in their products. My wife likes the Scion xD. I think she'd be better off with a Civic but she really wants a MINI (unlikely to get one)
But it's great when you can really enjoy what you own.
For me I buy cars for the long haul. My friend gets bored quickly with cars once they are out of warranty or sooner he trades them in.
we all have brands we like and brands we hate. I have brands I will never buy again, others maybe and some of course.
Mitsubishi has come a long way but they still have work to do to make a full comeback. Glad you enjoy your tC,
Unfortunately, a lot of people's first vehicle is a Tahoe or Suburban so in their minds a 2nd vehicle HAS to be a full size 4 dr pickup because you never know when you will have to pull a mobile home or put a Clydesdale in the bed of your truck.
If I lived in the city I can see why someone might get a Fit but as a second car a Civic would seem more practical. The Yaris is still just a touch homely for me and doesn't offer much over the Corolla as a second car. The Civic and the Fit get the same fuel mileage and yet you get 31 HP more with the Civic. Plus I think you can buy aftermarket parts at the local 7/11. Pep boys and Auto zone stock cold air intakes for Civics on their shelves. If fuel mileage is your goal get a Hybrid or even a hybrid Civic. For me I am beginning to think a good second car would be a Rav4 or a Impreza Hatchback. It snowed last night and I don't feel much like putting chains on the FWD sedan. I will be looking for another 4x4 truck next week.
My oldest sister owns '04 Galant...she already has 115k miles on it. She's been in two accidents with it. She never had problems with it.
They are good cars: in fact when I was shopping for my tC. My sales consultant and I were talking about Mitsubishi's. First thing; she told me about them was "They are built like Japanese tanks." She used to sell them so I know she knew what she was talking about. Our family has VERY good business relationship with our local Mitsubishi dealer since we did buy six cars from them. I bet if I was to lose my tC, I had to buy new car with major negitive...they would find a way to get me into Mitsu.
I don't hate them. I actually wanted to buy Lancer EVO when I was shopping for better car. But I figured it would of been very hard to learn stick-shift on one of them. I wasn't worried about Insurance; I was more worried about what big brother would of said ( jealously), how quick I would need to buy new clutch, and how soon my sales consultant (who sold me both my Scion's. We became good business friends doing both deals) would kill me. LOL I could of gotten '06 EVO RS for $24k at the dealer about 4 grand more than my fully loaded accessory tC.
The reason I like the Fit is the utility, and while the Civic currently gets 30 more HP it won't when the next generation Fit comes out. Plus the Fit will allow me to put my 100 lb. dog in the back in her kennel when I take her to the vet; can't do that w/a Civic.
I've never been convinced by hybrid technology and until I am I won't spend the $5000 premium. I get better mileage w/my Prizm than many people get w/their a hybrid and economics come into play at some point.
Why would you need chains??? I've never driven w/chains and we have bad weather from November to April. A FWD sedan is your BEST bet when the roads get nasty.
But for 99% of the people they don't need AWD even in their primary vehicle.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
No worries, just gotta realize what makes it a better buy for your might not make it a better buy for others. Its cool you have something that meets your needs and you feel good about driving.
So if I were going to travel much and might get caught in the winter at the Very least I would want a 4X4 and a AWD second car. With the snow we got last night I wasn't going anywhere till the ice melted with our FWD sedan.
Are you telling me the Fit is already looking to add 31 more HP next time out? Sort of proves a point.
Our AWD wagon and FWD sedan will stay parked until the ice melts in SE MI. The freeways were fine but our sub-division (and especially our street and driveway) were frightening. I wouldn't want to be out there without snows.
No, the Fit is adding about 12 HP because they are switching from the old VTEC engine to the new iVTEC. There will still be a 20 HP gap. The current Fit engine is already an old one and the next generation one is more fuel efficient and on par w/the more powerful Civic engine, which is bigger for a bigger car.
So if I were going to travel much and might get caught in the winter at the Very least I would want a 4X4 and a AWD second car. With the snow we got last night I wasn't going anywhere till the ice melted with our FWD sedan.
Granted, if one were going to drive a lot in the mountains I would advise AWD. In any case if you are driving places where you transfer case is dragging then you are driving when and where you shouldn't be. And if you shouldn't be driving w/one car you shouldn't be driving w/two.
Seriously you leave you AWD car at home?! :confuse: I mean why do that a decent set of snows and it will tackle anything. Upper New England we have lots of hills and we sure get a lot of snow and I've had RWD cars with good snow tires and no problems. My Rex with snows has gone through weather that stops most SUV's. Now FWD is only good in light snow but with snow tires it's ok as well. Only deep snow is an issue for the subie.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071210/AUTO01/712100330/1148-
Compacts down 3% in the same timeframe, full-size pick-ups down some 20%. Hmm, if I wanted to draw spurious conclusions from incomplete data, I wonder what I could come up with here.....?
:-P
(Of course, subcompacts are still under 3% of the overall market, but hey, there's only a handful of models on sale so far!)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
it's banker buddies, gas will continue to get more expensive. I hate
to be bailing out greedy bankers. But at least it's getting the bloated
unnecessary SUV's off the road. I saw another Suburban upside down
yesterday blocking the highway. How symbolic.
The snows are on order. They should be here this week. The RE92s are about half gone so we will put them on the bench for winter and bring them back out in summer. Its not so much I am afraid of losing it in the Subie, (or the Accord, for that matter) but I am totally freaked about some moron in an Explorer (or similar) creaming my Subie and taking out my family.
BTW-I have had some co-workers look me straight in the eye and tell me that my Lancer will last forever. "Forever?", I would ask.
"Forever!" was their response. I have had two of them state this and many, many others compliment me on my Lancer GTS package overall. I am someone still learning of Mitsubishi...those comments came the week of the purchase back in March of 2007.
I will tell y'all this, I will not hold back in reporting anything and everything about my Lancer GTS for 2008 from Mitsubishi, good or bad. So far I am much more than just pleased with the car.
Oh, and andeet, you could have bought a 2006 Mitsubishi EVO IX MR for only $24,000? Whew! I saw one for sale sharing showroom space with the Lancer GTS I ended up buying that was a 6-speed in Silver color selling for $36,000. Brand new but a 2006 model. Don't know if it was an "MR", though. But stevecebu would be interested in that car, if he is gonna make it back to the U.S. anytime soon, too. He is a frequent contributor here on Edmunds over in the Mitsubishi Lancer forums.
I think his wife and he were leaning towards a Subie as well but maybe I'll rattle his cage and inquire as to the latest with him. $24,000 sounds like an insider deal and not one for the general public, actually. Do you have inside tracking on deals on new Mitsubishi wheels, andeet?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Give me the european Civic 5 door, preferably diesel.
I think it was when they killed those cars and came out with the Sebring etc and the Eclipse took on the role I described earlier. Maybe as Chrysler got more control they screwed things up wrong. Yeah I see your point especially towards the end.
The dealer that my family buys from had four EVOs on the lot at the time; Nov '06. It was nice, just base Red EVO. I'm thinking they were selling it that low just to get rid of it or maybe it was '05?? I know if I went in there; they would of gotten me even more of a deal. Again, big brother would of killed me and I would of gotten my license taken away within few months for street racing. Cause I know all the locals in their rice burner Civics would challange me and being natural competitive I would of been stupid enough to go for it.
It's bad enough with my tC. I get cops staring all the time when I get off of work at 3:30-4:00 am...I'm not even doing 10 over and they still speed up to me.
Is Mitsu has plans bringing back the Ralliart Lancer for '08? Cause I'm wondering what Toyota has plans with the replacement of Scion tC? I heard rumors about a Scion xR; a four door sporty, that is Rally insipired to take over in '09? Maybe Toyota's idea for the Ralliart Lancer competitor? tC has been competitor for '04-'06 Ralliarts. I remember my brother comparing the tC's VVT-i with Ralliart Lancer's MIVEC when I let him drive it couple of times. Same power.
I would think the Camry drivetrain and slushbox would keep that to a minimum.
There are aftermarket turbos that run for seven grand that could make stock tCs to 310. I'm not that crazy to buy one cause that tC will be hard to keep down on speed.
Oh I see yeah, no way would I drive in my area without snow tires on any car including AWD. I prefer Nokian tires and wouldn't swap them out for anything else!
Not much you can do about the other idjits on the road. Most SUV drivers only care when their insurance company won't pay up for their bad driving or when they have to pump gas.
I'm not opposed to SUV's for people who need them, but being in an SUV doesn't guarantee safety. In the snow and ice not much helps.
I wonder how a Mazdaspeed 3 will do in the snow.
The STI looks great but hard to justify the extra $$$$!
The MINI looks great but also has issues especially with the RFT's. All the good choices are coming out next year! Sham I can't wait. :sick:
Would you rather have MX-5 or Mazda6's motor in that Scion?
I'm pretty sure we are the same age, actually.
Would you rather have MX-5 or Mazda6's motor in that Scion?
How about a MazdaSpeed3 engine? Or a '92-95 Toyota MR2/Clica All-Trac Turbo engine, back when Toyota used to make sports cars? Maybe an SR20DET out of a Sunny or Silvia.
Basically you have a sub-compact with a small, hard to access back seat that is about as fast as my 4 cylinder Accord (not that it isn't a snooze-fest). It handles about the same and looks like roughly the same mileage.
One of the used cars I was looking at to commute with was a Mazda MX3 GS with the 1.8l 24V V6. It reminds me a lot of the Scion, actually. The deal with the Mazda though is you drop in the 2.5l V6 from a Probe/MX6/626 and go from 130hp to 170.
Now you are talking. I had a 626 and that was one nice little motor.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
If you were impressed with 165 HP/161 lb-ft (old SAE standard) in a 3100 lb Mazda, you shouldn't complain about a 161 HP/162 lb-ft (new SAE standard) propelling a 2950 lb Scion. Is it a car I would pick? No. Its appeal (or lack of) has little to do with the engine being shared with Camry but everything to do with the competition and choices around.
You think those same people are going to buy another Mitsubishi?
Now they are retrying, and in a market that is fiercely competitive. And this might very well be the last attempt to get up and be able to walk. Odds are stacked against the brand, however, with Korean brands on the rise and their aggressive marketing.
Oh I definitely agree. I would much rather have a $23k Civic SI sedan than a $16k Scion tC. In fact, I would rather have an almost comparably priced Civic LX sedan than a tC.
If you were impressed with 165 HP/161 lb-ft (old SAE standard) in a 3100 lb Mazda, you shouldn't complain about a 161 HP/162 lb-ft (new SAE standard) propelling a 2950 lb Scion.
I was more interested in the 220 HP/192 lb-ft (old SAE standard) in the Mazda6 or the 270hp/280 lb-ft MazdaSpeed6. The Scion lacks any advantage over my current Accord, sharing similar acceleration times and handling numbers.
I don't place such an emphasis on horsepower or torque, I think the tC, Accord, and Mazda6 are all powerful enough with their 4 cylinder engines (and some more-so with their 6 cylinder engines) but on responsiveness, steering feel, and handling capabilities. The Scion seems to appeal to younger drivers stylistically, and offers good safety features at its pricepoint, as well as Toyota durability. It has its place.
I'd take another look if they offered a 4 door. Prices are dirt cheap!