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It may not carry over into real life, but it appears that they are the #1 determinant to good crash ratings..
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I think in the side impact, if you're the one that's being hit, unless you're in a Town Car and get t-boned by a rusted-out '75 Civic, there's a very good chance that you're going to get hurt. It really doesn't take much impact to literally throw a car sideways, and in such an impact, if it's on your side, your head is going right into the window/roof pillar/etc.
I've had two good, hard side impacts in my time, but luckily both of them were on the passenger side and I was riding solo. The first was in a 1969 Dart GT. I got run off the road by an F-150 and hit a traffic light pole sideways. It caught the car in the passenger side door and I'd say it smashed the whole car in about a foot! Strangely that door still opened and closed (after I kicked it open the first time), and the doors were thick enough that it looked like it only intruded about 4 inches into the passenger cabin. The whole car got twisted just enough that the hood and decklid were mis-aligned, and the seam where the rocker panel joins the rear quarter on the driver's side ripped loose. As for the pole, well it got ripped out of the ground, bolts and all, and I forget how far it got thrown, but it was out in the intersection!
Anyway, I'm sure that if I took a hit like that on the driver's side, I would've gotten seriously hurt.
The next hit was in a 1986 Monte Carlo. A kid in a '92 Tempo ran a stop sign in a parking lot and smacked right into me, fortunately on the passenger side. It was enough of a hit to disorient me and put me in the hospital to get checked out, and it did knock the car sideways a few feet, which if I'd had a passenger, or if that had been a hit to the driver's side, would have been enough to hurt.
When I test drove the xA a while back, that was the feeling I had, but to me it just felt like the front seat was higher - and perhaps it was, to make a little bit of foot room in the back seat.
And it did feel a little small up front, but that was ok with me. I'm going from a '96 Civic hatchback to an '05 Elantra, and am having trouble getting used to all that extra room I now have.
I think the whole idea of a "safe car" is a misnomer. The only thing we really have is "less dangerous" cars.
There are so many factors and dynamics that go into a car crash, including lots of luck. I never presume I'm "safe" in a car when I drive...I drive like I'm on a motorcycle...(no, I don't try to split lanes--LOL!)
What the hell are you putting in there... a Hemi? :surprise:
I have to ask this:
Does that mean you pop wheelies?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Let's see...I'm putting on a rear sway bar, front strut brace, sport muffler, 17" wheels and tires---that's got to be good for a couple hundred extra pounds.
I think I'm so used to paying for Porsche parts that all this aftermarket Toyota stuff feels like I'm paying in monopoly money or using Euros :P Everything is like 1/4 the price.
The only Scion in stock around here in goodly numbers is the tC, which kinda defies last year's year-end sales stats. Of course, the tC is also the only Scion that can't break 30 mpg with the manual (which I think is fairly pathetic, but gas mileage isn't everything). So maybe there isn't so much mystery to that one.
The local Honda dealership, after never being able to keep a single Fit on the lot longer than 24 hours, has now done something unusual for them: they have designated a demo car, so now there is a black auto-trans Fit in front of their dealership with big signs inside that say "2007 Honda Fit. NOT for sale"
And the local Chevy dealer, who never orders very many cars because in this area Chevy dealers sell mostly trucks, just got a big truckload of Aveos in - I happened by right when they were unloading them. He has like one each of Impala and Malibu, and like three Cobalts, and now about a dozen or more Aveos!
Viva la revolucion! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I don't think there is too much to worry about, as far as I can tell. I, too, like the looks of the HHR .. just wish it came with the supercharged 2.4L engine from the Cobalt SS / ION Redline.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think the main reason my friend didn't want it is because he didn't want to get something that small again. He was getting tired of his little Tracker, and had it narrowed down to an Equinox or an Xterra.
I think the HHR is actually bigger inside than the PT Cruiser, but there's just something about it that makes it feel claustrophobic to me. And while they're both way too plasticky, I actually prefer Chrysler's hard plastic, which has IMO a more pleasing texture to it, kind of an "elephant-skin" look I guess, compared to the HHR which, IIRC, was a bit more pebble-grained.
The Xterra he ended up getting is just as plasticky as either of those though, and it has kind of a pebble-grain texture, which I just don't like the looks of.
I think the PT Cruiser felt like it sat up a bit higher than the HHR, and I also didn't feel as close to the driver's door. There was just a vulnerable feeling that the HHR gave me, moreso than the PT.
Shame though, because I was intrigued by the HHR's fuel economy. 23/29 with the 4-cyl/automatic. The Xterra my buddy ended up getting is 16/22, although he's been averaging something like 20, which is about all his Tracker got!
As for sales though, I've heard they're on track to sell 100-120K HHRs annually. I think originally they only planned for 60K. They sold 9352 in April. And just to show how much the SUV/Crossover/wanna-be SUV market has changed and fragmented, nothing else in that field has doubled that in sales. The Escape sold 16,011 in April, making it the top selling SUV.
I guess the days of the Explorer being able to move 30K+ units per month are ancient history.
Here's a question for Mr. Shiftright (or anyone who would know)... do you think Honda will step up production of the Fit to meet demand quickly?
I've heard (possibly cock and bull) stories from dealers that Honda is going to stick with their plan of shipping 40k Fits to the US this year regardless of demand, because they like their cars to be "special" and "sought after". Sounds silly, but your thoughts are appreciated.
That was the main thing that killed it for me, the plastic. I felt like I was sitting in a oversized kids toy.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
My guess is no. The Fit right now is enjoying the status of hot car and once the Veruca Salts (you know the little brat from Willy Wonka who wanted everything right then and there) of this world gets theirs sales will slow down. I would guess production increases won't come along until next year.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Besides, most people buy for style or price, and probably don't know (or care for the most part) how old the platform is. There might even be buyers crazy enough to pay 50K for an ancient Chevy PU chassis with an overstyled wagon body on it.
Oh wait, that's Hummer....
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
There has already been some talk of the new NA-plant being used for the next generation Fit, which will definitely help with supply.
Remember, the Fit's production was originally decreased to make room for more Civics.
Civic WILL slow down next year after the new Sentra and Corolla are here, and hopefully then Honda will up the production numbers on the Fit a bit.
As for HHR, that is the other model my local Chevy dealer can't keep on the lot. They don't come in in the quantity that the Aveo does, but they come in a half dozen at a time, and never stay very long. I wonder what HHR's average inventory time is right now - I would be surprised if it were longer than 15 days.
The first time I ever looked at that model, I know it was going to be a hit. For a lot of the same style reasons as the PT, of course, but also because it has so much utility built in. Me, I hate the VERY cheap plastic all over the inside, and the stupid window switches buried practically on the floor at the bottom of the center stack. It makes a very decent $13K or $14K car, but at prices of $15-17K or more as the higher trims are priced, it feels way too cheap IMO.
But hey! HHR is not a subcompact. :confuse:
Now, the local Hyundai dealer STILL can't manage to get rid of last year's Accents, although he doesn't seem to have much trouble selling the new model, so maybe it is just because those half dozen '05s are "orphans" now. Also, none have A/C. This dealer is a combo with a million other brands including Saab, Hummer, and Cadillac, so he doesn't order a lot of Hyundais to begin with. Not a big profit item for him, I would imagine.
There was an article in the NY Times business section on Tuesday about how GM's purchase of the former Daewoo was the single best investment it has made in a long time. Apparently, it is very profitable for GM, designing and building small cars for GM brands all over the world, with a big emphasis right now on China. But of course, they are also responsible for the Aveo in America, which was last year's subcompact sales champ (not a title I expect it to hold onto this year!).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Turns out they have sold well worldwide, overall, and GM has a nice road to the Asian market for a modest investment. One of GM's bright light bulbs of late.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
http://www.autospectator.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4545
The tC is actually up a little in sales over last year, but the xB and xA are WAY up! And the Yaris is set to do 100,000 a year if it keeps this pace - that is twice what Toyota forecast for it, not to mention twice the pace of the Echo in its very best years!
And whoa Nelly! If this pace continues for Corolla, it will actually outsell Camry this year, another unheard-of for Toyota! If Corolla becomes the best-selling car of 2006, I will make the bold assertion that the new wave of smaller cars is about to crest and change the market. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Now I'm not trying to dis the Corolla as a total piece of junk, because it's not. But it is showing its age, and there are newer products out there. Plus there's that Godawful driver's seat position!
I read the Edmunds road test of the fit yesterday. They certainly seemed to like it. i was intriqued, since it sounds like a fun car to drive, but it does still seem to have issues as a highway cruiser. But, for a 2nd/around town car, certainly a viable option.
The Versa to me is still more interesting. It won't get as good mileage I guess as the Fit, but should be a lot more comfy as an everyday car, and hopefully will be a better cruiser.
But, more improtantly, Nissan is treating it like a real car and OFFERING OPTIONS!. Moonroof, stereo controls on the steering wheel, height adjustable seat, are all things that I consider a requirement, and the FIt doesn't offer at all. Plus other nicities like Bluetooth, and some other stuff I forget now.
Yeah, I want compact and good MPG, but that doesn't mean I am poor or want to drive a strippo. besides, that's why they are called options.
For the FIt, they just need to add an EX model, with a moonroof, seat adjuster, armrest, and a few other things. A slightly bigger engine and/or a 6 speed stick might be too much to ask for, since Honda seems to have moved on from the days when an EX had a different motor than a DX/LX.
OK, I am done ranting. I could see myself driving a Fit though if they would just add those couple of features, and I really can see myself in a Versa if the seats turn out to be comfy!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Honda figures are up too.
Fit is selling at a lower pace (but that seems to be historically true with the Corolla vs Civic), but will break the 40k mark that has been currently allocated to North America
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/June2006/01/c2687.html
(Canadian PR, figures in body of release)
5k x 7 months + the 9k already sold = 44k
Add another 1300 x 9 from Canada and that's another 11k
personally, i don't worry too much, no matter what i'm driving.
Corolla is becoming a staple at Hertz and even Avis now as well.
Not too shabby I'd say; you don't need a hulking behemoth.
Years ago, a buddy of mine t-boned a 1990-93 Accord with his '78 Newport, and that impact made the above Camry look like a parking lot ding! He hit the Accord on the passenger side, and there WAS a passenger over there. But amazingly, she wasn't hurt! Considering it pushed in the side of the car about two feet, it's a miracle that she didn't get hurt!
As for the 3000 lb threshold, that used to be, more or less about what it took for me to feel safe. But I think that's really more because my first car, a 1980 Malibu coupe, weighed about 3000 lb. And back then the next size class down, something like a Citation, 1981 K-car, etc, just seemed like too far of a step down, and with paper-thin doors.
Without a head-protecting side airbag, there is nothing but easily breakable glass between your head and an intruding vehicle, tree, or pole.
No car in the IIHS side test without head-protecting side airbags has scored better than Poor, the worst rating. A couple of small SUVs scored Marginal, and one minivan, the Toyota Sienna, scored Acceptable.
Needless to say, the IIHS test convinced me to sell my '97 Camry and replace it with a 2004 Camry with side airbags, even though the '97 was running and looking perfectly fine!
Just wondering about the crash you mentioned if the main intrusion was just behind where the passenger was sitting?
It avgs over 32 MPG, 65% hwy/35% city driving.
When we first got it, it got 29+ MPG, first tank of gas.
For the next few months, though, the MPG dropped to 27-28MPG.
Now? It seems that after 5,000-7,500 range, then MPG slowly climbed back upwards.
I filled the tank, and it got nearly 33MPG, last month.
If we drove it like they recommend, take off slowly, etc, it would most likely get 34MPG.
Those MPG numbers on the sticker aren't 100% accurate, not by a long shot( we drive 30,000+ miles on this car).
When you get over (think it was 10-12K miles) a certain mileage on this thing, the mileage does increase.
The sticker numbers are correct when the car is newer.
Our 1990 Sentra XE automatic was rated "only" 31MPG hwy..... I averaged 33+(to) 37MPG, on Hwy miles, and 29-31 city. I once hit 41+ MPG :surprise: , all hwy, 55 mph, in 92.
Anyhow, that's the way it was/is,etc, at least from what we have seen.
You also have to consider how people drive. Some will get less than what a sticker says is avg, some may get the exact avg, some may do better.
Take Care/Not Offense.
A car equipped with all of the options comes out much worse on the value equation. You're potentially looking at a $13,000 car with a bottom line close to (or over) $20,000. The interior materials, suspension, brakes, and powertrain don't get upgraded one bit when you add all those options, which is one of the reasons people may consider moving up to a larger vehicle.
That crash that my buddy had was about 10 years ago, and I didn't even know him back then! I did see the accident though, as I was delivering pizzas that night and it happened right outside the the shopping plaza where the store was located. And then that weekend my ex-wife's LeBaron got stolen and then impounded, and ended up at the same junkyard that the Newport and Accord did, so I got to see them both close-up.
The Accord was on a flatbed truck, and it looked like the Newport had popped it clean between the wheels. The front fender and rear quarter seemed undamaged, and I think even the A- and C-pillars weren't damaged. IIRC, the windshield wasn't even broken. But both doors and the B-pillar appeared pushed in about two feet.
I really don't see how this woman passenger could have survived, unless she wasn't wearing her seatbelt and somewhow got thrown toward the driver's side? Since it was sitting up on the trailer, I couldn't actually peer into it to see how crushed the passenger seat actually was.
Another thing that impressed me about the Accord though, is that the car seemed strong enough that it didn't "wrap" around the front of the Newport. Maybe that's because it was hit with such a wide frontal area though? When my '69 Dart hit the traffic light pole years ago, the whole car bent just a bit, throwing the hood and trunk out of alignment and even popping the seam on the driver's side (impact was on the passenger side) where the rocker and rear quarter join up.
basically, whatever got you the power options, roof, stereo controls on the steering wheel, bluetooth, alloys, and I think a couple of other things.
Sure, if it get to 20K+ there are other choices, but there are people that will opt for a 16.5K Versa equipped like this, instead of a 15K version without a lot of the toys, even though the drivetrain/suspension apre basically the same.
At least there is a CHOICE! The Fit doesn't really give you a choice of a little more deluxe (EX spec) model. Not sure what you can get on a Yaris, since I would never consider one of them.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I think it comes with the usual receptacle for your golf bags in the back, and a little horn so people know you're driving around the course.
Without T&L, about $17.9.
Seems pricey for what you get.
Granted, you get the 6-speed in the Versa, but I wonder if Nissan is thinking of dropping the same transmission into the Sentra and Altima as well?
Still, that's the nice thing about at least making the extras available. You can get the sticker on a CIvic well north of 20K (non-Si model), or you can get a strippo for ~16Kish. At least they give you the choice.
The debate about small loaded car vs. next size up strippo comes up occassionally. Would you rather have a loaded civic (moonroof/alloys/whatnot) or a base Accord (hubbies, black trim) for a similar price?
As to the Snetra, I bet the VCersa blankets it. Starts lower, but loaded up is more expensive than a cheap model Sentra, although a top line Sentra might be higher.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'd rather have a loaded small car. And, hey, I do!!
I bought a loaded Mazda 3 - Leather, sunroof, ABS/airbags, and even the Xenon. There is no way I would have spent all that money, MSRP over 20k, if I didn't like the underpinnings a lot. Otherwise I would have just been putting make-up on a pig, so to speak. And the handling/braking and Zoom-zoominess is the reason you get a 3 in the first place, right?
Buying a loaded version of a mediocre car (like my previous car, a Sephia) would be pointless, which is probably why Kia didn't offer the choice. :P
Besides, I've only had people in the backseat of the car once. So it's not like the size really matters. I do love its hatchy goodness, though.
The conditions to the deal were these...
1. I can buy the car back whenever I want but when I do I have to have our wholesaler find a specific car for my family member so that they can buy it.
2. I gave them a list of other people in my family who are absolutely never ever allowed to drive that car. This list includes a couple of cousins, my sister and everyone on my dad's side of the family.
I averaged, according to the trip computer which is about 1.5 to 2.0 MPG optimistic, 34.5 mpg on the 500 mile trip down. Over the trip I averaged 67 mph which includes two stops for gas/snacks and a 45 mph slow cruise through a notorious speed trap ridden section of back road.
I spent a whole lot of time above 90 mph following a group of three other cars through PA. Even at 90 mph I was getting between 29 and 30 mpg according to the trip computer.
At 72 mph in 6th gear my engine turns around 3,000 rpms. At 90 mph in 6th gear it turns around 4,000 rpms.
That's GOOD mpg by the way. I'm surprised.