I've never heard a peep from the press that the xA was unattractive...the xB takes all the heat! :P
I don't think any real small sedan or hatch can be "beautiful" but they can be "eccentric" and "interesting" and "quirky" and all that...again, the cuteness factor, with big noses and paws on a small body.
The best defense is to stay out of an accident, that is very true--because once an accident occurs, forces are unleashed which are totally unpredictable outside the crash-lab. If cars were "safe" we'd have no deaths instead of 40,000 a year. So lots of people in "safe" cars are dying and they aren't all in subcompacts by any means.
well that is true. Accidents can kill people. I am not sure that is a real big issue for most people. But while the xA isn't as Ugly as the xB it has never been described before as attractive or something that was so good looking we simply couldn't keep our eye off of it. That takes eye of the beholder to a whole new level. But I will accept interesting. If I considered the Matrix like a fairly attractive woman then the xA looks a bit like that woman's younger sister dressed in the older sisters clothes with a bit of extra baby fat.
vehicles like the xA and Fit are essentially pint-sized minivans. Blow either one up to about 200" long, keeping their proportions, and you essentially end up with a Sienna, Odyssey, or whatever.
But then, blow up the xB and you end up with an Astro.
Funny, but for all the ragging that the xB has to endure with, I kinda like it. Probably partly because the blocky, Astro-esque styling makes it look a bit more rugged, and partly because, while it's a tiny little thing, it's more quart-sized than pint-sized.
But style-wise, the only thing that bugs me about the xB is that bumper that juts out too far, coupled with the grille that doesn't jut out far enough. Gives it a blocky step-look in front. I think if they'd angle the grille and headlights, similar to how the Astro did back in the 80's, and shrink that step on the bumper, it would improve its looks.
I'll put my hand on my heart and swear to you I have been told (by women) at least 5-6 times that the xA is "so cute". That's not necessarily an ego-builder but it's way better than EWWWWWWWW.......
Guys don't much care for it except I have heard 3-4 times "hey, is that a hybrid?"
I'm thinking of starting a car club called "The Angry Gnats" for modified xAs.
That would be a great car club. However we do have one for xBs here and they call themselves the rolling toasters. Because I was driving behind one at the time I almost laughed myself silly.
But can't you see them putting two moon roofs running parallel on top and people just popping up now and then? It fits I tell ya. And the angry gnats? Can't you see the image? I love it.
is out of the running, for me, as are the Yaris and even the Mini. I could not abide that idiotic center instrument binacle! Yes, I could probably adapt, but why would I struggle with something that I'll live with for a decade or more?
After more than a century of automotive development, good ergonomics should be a given, yet it still seems the exception.
Oh it's not like that. You'd get used to it in a few days. I thought it was going to be a big deal but I don't even think about it anymore. The only hassle with the center pod is that you have to reach to reset the trip meter and that's a bit awkward.
I mean, really, you haven't got some long string of analog gauges to look at, and the speedo is big enough to see from the back seat and believe me, you'll KNOW when you're speeding without looking at it...which leaves the tach, and all you care about on a 1.5 liter engine is where the redline is.
So my argument is that there is nothing to look at of interest anyway. :P
Oh it's not like that. You'd get used to it in a few days.
I mentioned this somewhere on edmunds before, but I wear bifocals (ok I admit it I am getting up there in centuries) and that center mounted gauge cluster is in the worst possible spot for me. Its right at, and/or above, the line separating the two different prescriptions. That means i see regular gauges through the lower half and they are in focus. But those center mounted ones are either distorted by the changing prescription or seen through the upper half and they are not far enough away for that.
So my argument is that there is nothing to look at of interest anyway.
"Gee officer the reason I was going so fast is that I wasn't watching the speedometer, you know that gauge that is of no interest."
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
for me, the Fit is a better "fit" and does put the intruments in the right place, interesting or not.
Others have argued that a subcompact is not worthwhile since, for a few K bucks more you can have a bigger, more powerful, more luxurious more whatever vehicle. My thoughts run in the opposite direction: as much as I would like to have a new Miata, it is difficult to justify $6-8K more than a Fit as a daily driver, and they're both about 2500lbm. Yet the Miata's greater power/mass and superior handling would make it a safer and much more enjoyable vehicle not to mention its "drop-head" benefits.
But the Fit has better utility (which would be an infrequent benefit). The Fit consumes less fuel, yet even at $3/gal it would save less than $300/yr - from that perspective the Miata is cheap entertainment considering what others spend in greens fees, movies or sports events. And of course RWD vs FWD - no contest! Still there's that $16K vs $23K out-of-pocket.
I could not abide that idiotic center instrument binacle!
The choice today is between idiotic and infurating. The first one is in the center but visible, the second in front of you but invisible because the steering wheel obscures it.
In the past vehicles sold in the US were made for full-sized (read 5'10" +) men. Today, because of their countries of origin they're made for different demographic median. The distance between the steering wheel and the pedals has been changed the same way.
So, while I don't like the center-mounted display, at least I can see it without making ducking maneuvers just to check my own speed.
I can't say that I have had any trouble reading the gauges that were behind the steering wheel. If you haven't noticed unless your steering wheel is a fresbie or a garbage can lid there is this big huge space that you can look through and see those gauges with little or no trouble.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The heights aren't country specific, they are SAE specific. Horizon displays (like the Prius and the new Civic) are going to get more common, as is HUD as a secondary display.
If you haven't noticed unless your steering wheel is a fresbie or a garbage can lid there is this big huge space that you can look through and see those gauges with little or no trouble.
Oh, how clever. Since you have graced me with this unnecessary piece of gratuitous bs, allow me to express my jealousy for your statistically median height. Unless I totally lift my steering wheel to the point where it is no longer ergonomic to operate, my wheel's upper rim intrudes in the line of sight. And while the height of the steering wheel all up may be standard, the distance from the steering wheel to the pedals is NOT. That forces the taller among us to adjust the steering wheel down after pushing the seat back. That causes the steering wheel to intrude in the line of sight.
Now, spare me your gratuitous remarks in the future if those concepts are too hard for you.
snakeweasel, please refrain from a retort and hwyhobo, please try to maintain a civil attitude and call on the host if you are unhappy with a post. Thank you!
Scion xA-- well what I meant was that in the xA, or mine at least, you can hear what the engine is doing so I can "know" my speed within 5 mph, no problem. That's one reason I put on a noisier muffler. I like "mechanical" sounds in a car.
But bifocals? Shoot, it's hard enough to WALK in them much less drive. I'd probably forego bifocals in a center-dash type of vehicle and just use the long distance glasses.
Or you could have your windshield ground to prescription and throw the glasses away altogether!
Mr. Shiftright may be on to something there! Just have your windshield re-hashed to fit your current glasses prescription.
Isn't growing old fun?
BTW-what is the big deal about the center pod Toyota likes to save production money on? I mean, Toyota doesn't make enough money as it is...they really should look for ways to gouge us...I...I mean carefully contrive savings however they can with their small rigs, right? Just go with it. Doesn't reflect on the goodness of the car IMO.
But bifocals? Shoot, it's hard enough to WALK in them much less drive. I'd probably forego bifocals in a center-dash type of vehicle and just use the long distance glasses.
Or you could have your windshield ground to prescription and throw the glasses away altogether!
This is exactly why horizon displays and HUDs are going to gain popularity. Horizon displays and HUDs appear much further out, closer to optical infinity. This means that even though you are looking at something close up, your eyes see it as something far away. This is great for a couple of reasons... one is no bifocals, you wear glasses for distance while driving and they work fine because the display appears far away. Also as you age, the "accommodation effect," the time it takes for your eyes to focus on something close up from something far away and vice versa, increases. By making everything appear far away, you minimize this effect.
with center-mounted gauges is simply that I have yet to see a display that I find attractive to the eye. They usually end up just looking homemade and, alien somehow.
At least with little cars, they're narrow enough that the gauges might not be too far from your line of vision. With something like an xA, you could probably just keep looking straight ahead and roll your eyes to glance at the speedo. Kinda like I roll my eyes at the thought of ever owning something that small! :P
One of the things that has often mystified me related to something daysailer has mentioned before, small car maneuverability. His Miata may be able to avoid things but sub compacts often have weak scores in the very areas we should expect them to exceed. Pick up a copy of Car and Driver and you often expect a sub compact to have moderate 0-60 time but why are they back with a 6000 pound SUV in breaking? Shouldn't they excel here? Slalom times indicate how quickly you can swerve to avoid accidents even skid pads tell us about the amount of traction you have on mountain and canyon roads. But they don't excel in these areas. At best they are average and at worst they are sub standard. The only sub compact to address these concerns I can see is something like the Mini. I haven't seen the times on the Fit or the Versa but I don't imagine they will be any more impressive than the old Echo. It seems as if the manufacturers simply aren't willing to put their best effort in these little cars. I may have to break down and see what the newest Car and driver does on these cars.
One of the things that has often mystified me related to something daysailer has mentioned before, small car maneuverability. His Miata may be able to avoid things but sub compacts often have weak scores in the very areas we should expect them to exceed.
Well, the first thing to keep in mind is that a Miata is a sportscar, not a generic, economy-minded small car. It's designed to handle and perform. And how a car handles and performs really depends more on the way the suspension and steering are designed, as well as the engine, brakes, center of gravity, etc. Tires have a lot to do with it as well.
About the best thing a small car has going for it is that it presents itself as a smaller target to hit. For instance, if you run a red light in a car that's 12 feet long versus one that's 19 feet long, the 19 foot long car is more likely to get hit simply because it's a larger target. Even if it can accelerate out of the way just as quickly as the 12-foot car, it will still take longer to move all that length past a given point. And it would be easier for oncoming traffic to swerve around a 12-foot obstacle than it would be a 19-foot one.
Small cars usually tend to do pretty well in slalom courses, but in some situations those short wheelbases can make the cars feel unstable and jittery. And you'd think a lighter car would brake better than a bigger one, but often they skimp on brakes when it comes to little cars. Plus, in many cases these days, even little cars have relatively large, heavy wheels and tires, and that takes some effort to haul down.
The Mini is a sub compact and it does well in breaking and slalom and skid pad. It all goes back to the idea that the manufacturers aren't putting their best effort in small cars. Sub compacts do not excel in performance that helps in accident avoidance as some have suggested. At best they are middle of the pack. Slalom results prove that while a sub compact may feel quick it is in fact not as quick in swerving as our seat of the pants-o-meter might suggest.
That's probably true. I'd guess that the size of the subcompact car is what really helps in avoidance, as I can speak from personal experience on a number of occasions where a few more inches of width especially would have done me in.
Having said that, I think I could match the MINI's slalom with about a $1,000 upgrade. The brakes are another issue, since swapping drums for disks is a bigger problem (you often have to swap rear axles (even dead axles on FWD)and who knows what else.
Actually the xA's brakes are very good but they cannot stand repeated stress...that's the problem. But for a one-time SLAM, not bad, not bad....surely middle of the pack if not a tad on the upper end. A fatter tire would help but then you run the risk of aqua-planeing.
I bet some braided steel brake hoses and high quality brake fluid would make some difference.
Read the Fit forum and you'll find plenty of people 6'5" feeling very comfortable in the Fit and I haven't seen any complaints about not being able to read the dash.
Read the Fit forum and you'll find plenty of people 6'5" feeling very comfortable in the Fit and I haven't seen any complaints about not being able to read the dash.
That's good news. I haven't tried Fit yet. It will definitely be one of my criteria in the future. I am tired of "ducking" in my car just to read my speed when I see something b&w on the horizon behind me . I would rather put up with the center display.
is reportedly Nissan's "subcompact" replacement for the Sentra as that model continues its evolution to bloated landwhale.
But I'm puzzled by Nissan's strategy, since the Versa is >200lbm more than this year's Sentra! And since the new Sentral is now within 200lbm of the Altima, they have three models spanning a range of only about 300lbm while yielding the subcompact segment to the Fit, Yaris, XA, etc.
It appears that Nissan agrees with Boaz that there's no money to be made in small cars.
I think auto makers have succumb to the large, extra large and supersize, and they should go back to the small, medium and large. Honda & Ford have it right: Fit, Civic, Accord and Focus, Fusion, 500. Then you have Toyota Yaris, Corolla, Camry, Avalon. Funny thing is that with respect to space, the new "small" has more space inside than the "medium" and almost as much as the large. You think, for example, a small (Fit) and large (Accord) would be enough with the small costing around $15K and the large about $25K with the options and luxury features adding or subtracting to that cost.
I tink right now that the car makers would be too nervous getting rid of their medium sized cars until they see how the market likes their small ones. Even though a Fit may have more room than a Civic, some people can't look beyond the exterior size/shape and just "think" it's too small.
You can blame the people with clip boards that accost you in the malls asking for opinions. Manufacturers look heavily to market research and there is very little to suggest to them that the vast majority of Americans are interested in sub compacts that are real sub compacts. The Mini is no exception because they have marketed it well out of the competitive segment of the market. You can even sell Amway to a niche. But that fat middle or the bell curve is where the money is. Ask Toyota or even Honda. You can always rake off the extra profit for the SUV and large car market, the buyers are more than likely upscale and are willing to spend the money. But Sub Compact buyers in general are looking for economy and there isn't much fat left when you are selling to entry level. That might be why the performance is not a major investment for most sub compacts. Mini knew there was a image they had to live up to so they provided an option that allows them to fit the niche very nicely. And you don't have to buy your car and add $1000.00 to get into the ball park in performance.
I really don't believe that outside of these forums and car circles, the average american buying a car really knows or cares that much about performance when they're buying something like a Versa, Corolla, Civic, Mazda3/6, Fusion, Accord, Camry, etc. They're not looking at 0-60 speeds or how fast it can drive around a bunch of cones. Or what they do know about performance is that they think small economy cars are slow and they need something bigger and faster, even though the reality may be that the actual performance of the two are really close. I think it's funny when you see some discussion forum for minivans or SUVs and someone makes a big deal of whether or not the 0-60 time is 8, 9, or god-forbid 10 seconds! Like that second or two makes a difference. Or when the maximum HP is at 5000 or 6000 rpm, which is in a range that nobody really drives in. Anyway, probably 95% of every new car out there has sufficient power for 95% of the population, so I think there area a lot of other, more important areas to compare cars.
You make some valid points. If marketing was based on need those points would be even more valid. However in the real world or at least the American real world it simply doesn't work that way. Spend the next few days looking at car comercials and tell us where the consumer buyers target is. Looking at truck comercials you hear them say things like, " most powerful engine in its class." or "able to tow 25 percent more weight than the other trucks in it's class." You will never hear, "enough power to fit 95 percent of you average needs." You will never hear, 95 percent of the power of a Ford, Chevy or Dodge in it's class.". The Versa itself makes fun of other small cars with it's "auto-claustrophobia" commercial. Doesn't matter one bit about what people know about performance other than they have a car with more than the last generation or the same car had. Cars don't often come with a standard 260 HP engine but you can have the option of downgrading to a 120 hp engine do they? Do you remember seeing the Nissan commercial of a car sliding through the streets of a deserted city? What image was nissan trying to portray? And the Subaru running down a rainy twisty road? Or the BMW commercial with the BMW motorcycle driving together down a twisting canyon or mountain road? Or Nissan with the commercial of it sitting on an empty road to watch the sunset only to drive like a bat till they could see the sunset again? While most people don't know much about their cars they do know they have more power than a 108 HP Echo. And in these forums the posters can tell you if their cars have more or less performance potential than your car the minute you post it.
And in these forums the posters can tell you if their cars have more or less performance potential than your car the minute you post it.
Yes but I seriously doubt that the posters on these forums represent a cross section of the buying public. I would bet that at least half the people out there don't know how many HP their engines produce. I have known people who didn't even know how many cylinders their car has let alone the displacement and HP ratings.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I don't base the reasons people buy cars strictly on TV commercials. I think people ask their friends, family, base it on their experiences and the experiences of people around them. Maybe a TV commercial got someone thinking about a car they might not otherwise thought of, and maybe even got them walking into a dealer, but when it comes to actually signing on the dotted line and buying the car, I doubt if TV commercials played much of a role.
On the other hand, I think that TV commercials do a good job of generalizing an automaker...Mazda and Nisson are seen as the sporty Japanese cars, versus Toyota and Honda the boring ones with the super quality. With Subaru it's the all-wheel drive. Kia/Hyundia it's the big warranty. Volvo is safety. Then you get the BMW, Lexus, Jag, and they're all trying to distinguish themselves in more or less snobbish terms. BMW for the sporty snobs, Lexus for the quality snobs, Mercedes for the traditional snobs, etc. So I think that TV ads do more for selling companies then actual models of cars.
True, but none of them bought their car because it was was less powerful, or less comfortable, or had less hauling capacity that the other cars in the class. No one was looking at a car commercial showing their perspective choice struggling to hold a mountain road or falling behind traffic on the open road. Have to ever seen a add to that effect? Do you think it would sell? Let me think,,,,,,Nope.
So your conclusion as to why sub compacts make up less than 5 percent of the market and Mid sized cars have better than 30 percent is? You believe American are practical? The F-series truck is the best selling vehicle in the world because we like sub compacts? I have down sized my personal fleet quite a bit but looking at sales for the Accord and Camry and then looking at projections for what they "hope" to see in sub compacts doesn't impress me much with our practical side. When you project selling 50K of a Sub compact and the same company projects 400K mid sized cars, 300K compacts and 200k SUVs it is hard to believe the manufacturer is looking at practical buyers.
Ok I will give you that, but how many people choose car 'A' over car 'B' simply because car 'A' has 15 more HP? Or can get to 60 MPH a half second faster? People buy a car because 1.) they like it and 2.) it fits a particular need (be it real or perceived). Face it performance figures really matter to a select few. Most people have other things they look for in a car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you eliminated all of the corporate, business and rental car sales, I wonder what the percentage would be of people who buy midsized vs compact? You're right about people not being practical, and Americans are big people too, so when comparing a Corolla to a Camry, or a Civic to an Accord if people can afford either one then they'll go for the Accord. But if you compared a Versa to an Accord, or even a Fit to an Accord, with the more open feeling of these new subcompacts you never know where Americans will go. We haven't had cars like this before. Plus it will depend on gas prices, which is how the subcompacts got here in the first place. If gas prices were to go up and hang around $3/gal for a few years, then people might go to more subcompacts. And of course even if a 4cyl Accord could get about as good as mpg as a Fit, the impractical Americans would probably go for the Fit, because of the perceptions that cars of the size of the Fit must get better MPG. Just like they assume that something as small as the Fit must be tiny inside, even if it has almost as much space as an accord.
True, but none of them bought their car because it was was less powerful, or less comfortable, or had less hauling capacity
Not if you try to sell it that way, but if you say, "You will be saving $2,000 every year in fuel costs alone while enjoying the same spacious interior" - it might work.
Not if you try to sell it that way, but if you say, "You will be saving $2,000 every year in fuel costs alone while enjoying the same spacious interior" - it might work.
Thats an awful lot of driving to save $2,000 every year in fuel costs.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Actually, we have had "cars like this before." In the late '60s and into the early '70s, we had quite a number of small cars with great space utilization, visability, versatility, and excellent fuel economy, and the majority of which I speak were front-wheel drivers as well. Practically all were European vehicles, none of which (the European marques) are imported into the USA currently. Well, sort of, especially since the Nissan Versa has a substantial amount of European influence.
The front-wheel drive cars of which I speak include, but not limited to, the BMC Mini (and, its variants like the Austin America), FIAT 128, Renault R12 and R16 (larger, but extremely versatile - the R16 was known as a Sedagon, e.g. a sedan/wagon), Simca 1204, and the Honda 600 (and, later the original Civic). Plus, there were plenty of small European rear-drivers that made an entry in the USA including the DKW, NSU, and earlier Renaults. Another front-driver - one from the late '70s - includes the German-built Ford Fiesta, not to be confused with the later Kia-built Ford Festiva.
Many were "before their time," especially the French vehicles, as the French always required small cars with significant versatility. That's why I find the Nissan Versa so unique, and such a proper name, given its European, and French-derived management, lineage.
Oh you could be right, but offer car A lets call it a toyonda civil for 16k with 120 hp and car B a Nissazda Sendra3 with 130 HP for 16K and they will happily sing the praises of Zoom zoom to all who will listen. It isn't that it matters to them, it only that new and more can sell. Old and less doesn't sell. Bigger and better sells. Smaller and more conservitive doesn't sell. Got a computer? Want to bet the next one you get will have more ram, more hard drive and have a faster clock speed? Will it matter that you don't know or care if it does? Nope, but it will sell a lot better if it is the new and improved computer. New and improved implies better in our society. Real or imagined. we or at least some of us have talked about this before. Sub Compacts have a perception problem to over come in this country. Does the word Econo-box show up on your radar screen? It was created for Sub Compacts and is still an interchangeable word with such reading material as Car and driver and Motortrend. They will even title there test, six new econo boxes or something to that effect.
Comments
I don't think any real small sedan or hatch can be "beautiful" but they can be "eccentric" and "interesting" and "quirky" and all that...again, the cuteness factor, with big noses and paws on a small body.
The best defense is to stay out of an accident, that is very true--because once an accident occurs, forces are unleashed which are totally unpredictable outside the crash-lab. If cars were "safe" we'd have no deaths instead of 40,000 a year. So lots of people in "safe" cars are dying and they aren't all in subcompacts by any means.
But then, blow up the xB and you end up with an Astro.
Funny, but for all the ragging that the xB has to endure with, I kinda like it. Probably partly because the blocky, Astro-esque styling makes it look a bit more rugged, and partly because, while it's a tiny little thing, it's more quart-sized than pint-sized.
But style-wise, the only thing that bugs me about the xB is that bumper that juts out too far, coupled with the grille that doesn't jut out far enough. Gives it a blocky step-look in front. I think if they'd angle the grille and headlights, similar to how the Astro did back in the 80's, and shrink that step on the bumper, it would improve its looks.
Guys don't much care for it except I have heard 3-4 times "hey, is that a hybrid?"
I'm thinking of starting a car club called "The Angry Gnats" for modified xAs.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Ho-boy, that one's got to be right up there with "I'm on the pill" and "I'll love you forever and never get fat!" :P
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
After more than a century of automotive development, good ergonomics should be a given, yet it still seems the exception.
I mean, really, you haven't got some long string of analog gauges to look at, and the speedo is big enough to see from the back seat and believe me, you'll KNOW when you're speeding without looking at it...which leaves the tach, and all you care about on a 1.5 liter engine is where the redline is.
So my argument is that there is nothing to look at of interest anyway. :P
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I mentioned this somewhere on edmunds before, but I wear bifocals (ok I admit it I am getting up there in centuries) and that center mounted gauge cluster is in the worst possible spot for me. Its right at, and/or above, the line separating the two different prescriptions. That means i see regular gauges through the lower half and they are in focus. But those center mounted ones are either distorted by the changing prescription or seen through the upper half and they are not far enough away for that.
So my argument is that there is nothing to look at of interest anyway.
"Gee officer the reason I was going so fast is that I wasn't watching the speedometer, you know that gauge that is of no interest."
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Others have argued that a subcompact is not worthwhile since, for a few K bucks more you can have a bigger, more powerful, more luxurious more whatever vehicle. My thoughts run in the opposite direction: as much as I would like to have a new Miata, it is difficult to justify $6-8K more than a Fit as a daily driver, and they're both about 2500lbm. Yet the Miata's greater power/mass and superior handling would make it a safer and much more enjoyable vehicle not to mention its "drop-head" benefits.
But the Fit has better utility (which would be an infrequent benefit). The Fit consumes less fuel, yet even at $3/gal it would save less than $300/yr - from that perspective the Miata is cheap entertainment considering what others spend in greens fees, movies or sports events. And of course RWD vs FWD - no contest! Still there's that $16K vs $23K out-of-pocket.
I'm impaled on the horns of a dilema.
The choice today is between idiotic and infurating. The first one is in the center but visible, the second in front of you but invisible because the steering wheel obscures it.
In the past vehicles sold in the US were made for full-sized (read 5'10" +) men. Today, because of their countries of origin they're made for different demographic median. The distance between the steering wheel and the pedals has been changed the same way.
So, while I don't like the center-mounted display, at least I can see it without making ducking maneuvers just to check my own speed.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That's good Shifty, but I'm not sure I could see the xA as being 'angry'.
Maybe a club called "The Mighty Peeved Gnats"........
Oh, how clever. Since you have graced me with this unnecessary piece of gratuitous bs, allow me to express my jealousy for your statistically median height. Unless I totally lift my steering wheel to the point where it is no longer ergonomic to operate, my wheel's upper rim intrudes in the line of sight. And while the height of the steering wheel all up may be standard, the distance from the steering wheel to the pedals is NOT. That forces the taller among us to adjust the steering wheel down after pushing the seat back. That causes the steering wheel to intrude in the line of sight.
Now, spare me your gratuitous remarks in the future if those concepts are too hard for you.
Scion xA-- well what I meant was that in the xA, or mine at least, you can hear what the engine is doing so I can "know" my speed within 5 mph, no problem. That's one reason I put on a noisier muffler. I like "mechanical" sounds in a car.
But bifocals? Shoot, it's hard enough to WALK in them much less drive. I'd probably forego bifocals in a center-dash type of vehicle and just use the long distance glasses.
Or you could have your windshield ground to prescription and throw the glasses away altogether!
How About "Angry Gnats in a Can"?
Isn't growing old fun?
BTW-what is the big deal about the center pod Toyota likes to save production money on? I mean, Toyota doesn't make enough money as it is...they really should look for ways to gouge us...I...I mean carefully contrive savings however they can with their small rigs, right? Just go with it. Doesn't reflect on the goodness of the car IMO.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
xA is still topping my leader board in the class...
Or you could have your windshield ground to prescription and throw the glasses away altogether!
This is exactly why horizon displays and HUDs are going to gain popularity. Horizon displays and HUDs appear much further out, closer to optical infinity. This means that even though you are looking at something close up, your eyes see it as something far away.
This is great for a couple of reasons... one is no bifocals, you wear glasses for distance while driving and they work fine because the display appears far away. Also as you age, the "accommodation effect," the time it takes for your eyes to focus on something close up from something far away and vice versa, increases. By making everything appear far away, you minimize this effect.
Unfortunately the center mounted gauges are not far enough away to be read easily with long distance glasses.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
At least with little cars, they're narrow enough that the gauges might not be too far from your line of vision. With something like an xA, you could probably just keep looking straight ahead and roll your eyes to glance at the speedo. Kinda like I roll my eyes at the thought of ever owning something that small! :P
Well, the first thing to keep in mind is that a Miata is a sportscar, not a generic, economy-minded small car. It's designed to handle and perform. And how a car handles and performs really depends more on the way the suspension and steering are designed, as well as the engine, brakes, center of gravity, etc. Tires have a lot to do with it as well.
About the best thing a small car has going for it is that it presents itself as a smaller target to hit. For instance, if you run a red light in a car that's 12 feet long versus one that's 19 feet long, the 19 foot long car is more likely to get hit simply because it's a larger target. Even if it can accelerate out of the way just as quickly as the 12-foot car, it will still take longer to move all that length past a given point. And it would be easier for oncoming traffic to swerve around a 12-foot obstacle than it would be a 19-foot one.
Small cars usually tend to do pretty well in slalom courses, but in some situations those short wheelbases can make the cars feel unstable and jittery. And you'd think a lighter car would brake better than a bigger one, but often they skimp on brakes when it comes to little cars. Plus, in many cases these days, even little cars have relatively large, heavy wheels and tires, and that takes some effort to haul down.
Having said that, I think I could match the MINI's slalom with about a $1,000 upgrade. The brakes are another issue, since swapping drums for disks is a bigger problem (you often have to swap rear axles (even dead axles on FWD)and who knows what else.
Actually the xA's brakes are very good but they cannot stand repeated stress...that's the problem. But for a one-time SLAM, not bad, not bad....surely middle of the pack if not a tad on the upper end. A fatter tire would help but then you run the risk of aqua-planeing.
I bet some braided steel brake hoses and high quality brake fluid would make some difference.
That's good news. I haven't tried Fit yet. It will definitely be one of my criteria in the future. I am tired of "ducking" in my car just to read my speed when I see something b&w on the horizon behind me
But I'm puzzled by Nissan's strategy, since the Versa is >200lbm more than this year's Sentra! And since the new Sentral is now within 200lbm of the Altima, they have three models spanning a range of only about 300lbm while yielding the subcompact segment to the Fit, Yaris, XA, etc.
It appears that Nissan agrees with Boaz that there's no money to be made in small cars.
I tink right now that the car makers would be too nervous getting rid of their medium sized cars until they see how the market likes their small ones. Even though a Fit may have more room than a Civic, some people can't look beyond the exterior size/shape and just "think" it's too small.
Yes but I seriously doubt that the posters on these forums represent a cross section of the buying public. I would bet that at least half the people out there don't know how many HP their engines produce. I have known people who didn't even know how many cylinders their car has let alone the displacement and HP ratings.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
On the other hand, I think that TV commercials do a good job of generalizing an automaker...Mazda and Nisson are seen as the sporty Japanese cars, versus Toyota and Honda the boring ones with the super quality. With Subaru it's the all-wheel drive. Kia/Hyundia it's the big warranty. Volvo is safety. Then you get the BMW, Lexus, Jag, and they're all trying to distinguish themselves in more or less snobbish terms. BMW for the sporty snobs, Lexus for the quality snobs, Mercedes for the traditional snobs, etc. So I think that TV ads do more for selling companies then actual models of cars.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not if you try to sell it that way, but if you say, "You will be saving $2,000 every year in fuel costs alone while enjoying the same spacious interior" - it might work.
Thats an awful lot of driving to save $2,000 every year in fuel costs.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The front-wheel drive cars of which I speak include, but not limited to, the BMC Mini (and, its variants like the Austin America), FIAT 128, Renault R12 and R16 (larger, but extremely versatile - the R16 was known as a Sedagon, e.g. a sedan/wagon), Simca 1204, and the Honda 600 (and, later the original Civic). Plus, there were plenty of small European rear-drivers that made an entry in the USA including the DKW, NSU, and earlier Renaults. Another front-driver - one from the late '70s - includes the German-built Ford Fiesta, not to be confused with the later Kia-built Ford Festiva.
Many were "before their time," especially the French vehicles, as the French always required small cars with significant versatility. That's why I find the Nissan Versa so unique, and such a proper name, given its European, and French-derived management, lineage.