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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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Comments

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    From my car's MPG computer, I notice the instantaneous MPGs (based of fuel injector duty cycle I believe, as opposed to the old days where it was manifold vacuum) will increase at a safe distance behind a semi. Even with a couple of seconds following distance, there is still a noticeable advantage.

    The trick is to find a truck going the speed you want to travel but on the interstate finding a semi going 70 isn't that hard. If you anticipate needing to change lanes and let him in a few times, it seems to help the relationship.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    close enough to avoid the vortex where the air comes back together called, let me think, following too close? Don't they give you a ticket for that? :blush: Not that I have ever been scolded by a Smokey bear hat wearing person for that act.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Did you read the article about the 35th anaversuery of the Cannonball run? The comment on the second year was one I thought you would like. One of the contestants entered a MGA. It broke down 600 miles after the start of the race. I was more amazed that it made it 600 miles than hearing it broke down. I had more faith in my Fiat than my old Sprite when it came ot road trips. Maybe it is because the Brits have such a small country? They are never far from a service station. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    600 miles is impressive, I agree. ;)

    Got hit today, actually an SUV hit a Prius, and pushed it into the back of my Miata.

    Surprisingly, the Prius suffered the least damage. Tough bumpers on that thing. The front had no visible damage yet it managed to crack my Miata's bumper completely in half! It even fared better than the SUV's bumper on the other side.

    -juice
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    The air behiind a truck is moving along with it for 2-3 truck lengths behind. If there's a cross wind the position of the moving air shifts to the side, of course. Trailing along 6-7 car lengths still has greatly reduced air resistance and avoids the debris kicked up by the wheels and the nails picked up by the wheels that's looking for a tire to gouge and paint to scour.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, it's always fun to ask a Brit directions. Even if you're traveling 100 miles, he'll blow out his cheeks and shake his head and wonder if a human being could endure 100 miles of driving--LOL! They don't realize, as Bill Bryson once said, that Americans would drive further for a taco than most Brits would on a week's vacation.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,733
    well, heck, don't we have states larger than their whole country? They don't NEED to drive very far.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Right. By "right behind them" I mean maybe 50-100ft. You don't care about the dirty air effect so much as dropping your 65-70mph wind/friction down to about half of that. That will give you about 200rpm lower engine speed, and you don't have to tailgate to do it. But were talking real semi and not delivery trucks - you need that big rectangular slab of metal blocking the wind for you.

    This also works if there's a crosswind. Let the metal behemoth block the gusts for you(though it kind of needs to be 3 lanes or wider).

    Just a few tricks I learned running up and down route 5. :)

    In an automatic, lugging the engine isn't a bad thing - GM makes their living doing it ;) In a manual, you need to learn where your shift points are and drop from 3rd into 5th or 6th, skipping the gears inbetween. Obviously this needs to be on a slight downhill slope, so timing is important.

    My old Mercedes gained 15HP and about 2 mpg the second I cut the belt to the A/C(which needed recharging anyways).
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    And you can bet that if they did have to drive long distances, they'd trade in those little toasters on wheels for big mastodons quicker than we Americans seem to every time the fuel gets cheap and starts flowing readily again! :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    In an automatic, lugging the engine isn't a bad thing - GM makes their living doing it

    If an automatic transmission gets to the point that it's starting to strain from lugging, isn't it usually "smart" enough to downshift? Presuming that it's geared reasonably?

    Back in 1981, when Chrysler bumped the axle ratio on their V-8 cars from a 2.41:1 to a 2.26:1, it was too much of a strain on the existing Torqueflite, which had a 2.45:1 first gear and 1.45:1 second gear. So to compensate, they changed it to something like a 2.74:1 first and 1.58:1 second.

    My old Mercedes gained 15HP and about 2 mpg the second I cut the belt to the A/C(which needed recharging anyways). Hmmm, maybe I should try that trick on my '85 Silverado, and see if it does any good.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    You know, that may be something to think about. Look at the cars we see in Australia. They seem to like cars about the size we do. In fact quite often we can take a car pretty much unchanged from what they have and drop it right into our fleet with nothing more than another name. There seems to be a lot of distance between locations for them as well. Maybe the fact that we do drive so much more than Asians and Europeans distance wise has colored our vehicle preferences?
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Maybe the fact that we do drive so much more than Asians and Europeans distance wise has colored our vehicle preferences?

    Absolutely. After WWII, Europe was in ruins, by and large. Nobody had any money to buy new cars and the distances that people travelled on a daily basis was relatively small.

    Compare that to the US, where all that manufacturing capacity that was used to build B-29's and tanks and such were quickly converted over to automobile production.

    Couple that with the post-war growth of suburbs around every major metropolis and it's easy to see why Americans liked their cars "lower, longer and wider" than those in Europe.

    As an example, Google Maps shows the driving distance between London and Rome to be 1126 miles. Denver to LA is 1016, and that's only one third the width of our country.

    I suspect that most folks travelling between these two pairs of cities would fly; but, if they aren't flying, then the alternative in the US would be to drive, while in Europe it would be to take the train.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    As an example, Google Maps shows the driving distance between London and Rome to be 1126 miles. Denver to LA is 1016, and that's only one third the width of our country.

    Interstate 90 is the longest interstate in the US (Boston to Seattle) and its 3,099 miles long. I-95 (Boston to Miami) is 1,927 miles.

    Europe is 8.38% larger than the U.S. but has 137% more people.

    Yep we gots some elbow room.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    As an example, Google Maps shows the driving distance between London and Rome to be 1126 miles. Denver to LA is 1016, and that's only one third the width of our country

    I've made the trip from the DC area to Houston, about 1400-1500 miles, in a day. Well, okay, it was a 22-24 hour "day", and I was dog-tired when I reached my destination! I wonder how long it would take to cover 1500 miles of Europe by car? I'd imagine that would probably take you through 5 or 6 countries and over a wide variety of roads ranging from Autobahn-esque superhighways to cowpaths. Plus, how much of a hassle is it to drive from one country into another in Europe? It isn't like trying to get into Mexico, is it?
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    No kidding. We drove to Fort Hood from Crestline last Christmas.. When we got to El Paso we were only half way there. we would drive for hours after we passed Palm Springs and see nothing for miles even in California. Once we hit Texas there were times you couldn't see a building for as far as the horizon. There were small cars on the road for sure but the majority of vehicles we saw were land barges. You could set the car on Cruise control and not touch the gas or brake for at least an hour. There were times I was sure I could take my hands off of the wheel and not change lanes for at least five miles. There were several places there where we were with several other cars all doing in excess of 90 after dark. The speed limit on two lane roads was 70 and that was blocking traffic. Road trips my not be as common as they once were but I am willing to bet they have helped make the SUV and motor home far more popular than anywhere else in the world.

    Didn't I read somewhere that we have more paved roads in the US than all or Europe combined?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Didn't I read somewhere that we have more paved roads in the US than all or Europe combined?

    I seriously doubt that. They have a very heavy population density and we have wide tracts of land with few if any paved roads.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Hmmm.

    2.45 + 1.45 + 2.41 axle
    1st 5.9045
    2nd 3.4945
    3rd 2.41

    2.45 + 1.45 + 2.26 axle
    1st 5.537
    2nd 3.277
    3rd 2.26

    2.74 + 1.58 + 2.26 axle
    1st 6.1924
    2nd 3.57
    3rd 2.26

    Those are some stunningly languid gears. You'd need a giant V8 to get anywhere with those. My 2000 Accent (1.5L) has around a 12.5:1 reduction in 1st, the 1.6L Accent was around 13:1, and the new Accent is about a 14.7:1 in 1st (all manuals). My S2000 with an aftermarket 4.77 rear is a 14.88:1 in 1st.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I think we pave a lot more of our roads than they pave of theirs.

    Man, that eastbound drive once you climb out of Palm Springs is mind-numbing. If only there were no such thing as a highway trooper, I would set the cruise on 120 and cover the distance to El Paso (a sometime destination for me) in half the time. But the only place you can ACTUALLY do that is New Mexico.

    Did it a couple of times in the RSX, a subcompact. :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I think we pave a lot more of our roads than they pave of theirs.

    I think Europe (or at least western europe) has a higher percentage of paved roads than the U.S. You get outside of the major metroplatain areas in the U.S. and you start running into a lot of unpaved roads. Get into rural America off the main roads and you will see a lot of unpaved roads.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Andre, you've got me beat. My longest day(s) behind the wheel:

    1) Childress, TX (SE of Amarillo) to Phoenix .. 900 miles, IIRC. In an '85 Honda Accord, which I suppose would be considered a subcompact by today's standards. At least I had someone to share the driving chores with.

    2) LA suburbs to Arcata, CA ... 650 miles. By myself. In an '88 Isuzu Trooper. Long, long, long day. Didn't help that I got lost in SF and drove around in circles for an hour before finding the Golden Gate bridge. Decided to come home via I-5.

    On unpaved roads: I've got one about 2 minutes from my house. It's a county road that runs for 2 or 3 miles before it becomes paved again. Lots of unpaved roads near me, and I'm only 30 miles south of Denver.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Yeah he has me beat too, we went from Chicago to orlando (about 1,200 miles) in a day.

    On unpaved roads: I've got one about 2 minutes from my house. It's a county road that runs for 2 or 3 miles before it becomes paved again. Lots of unpaved roads near me, and I'm only 30 miles south of Denver.

    Yeah I am about 30 miles as the crow flies from the loop (Downtown Chicago) and I can be on unpaved roads in 15-20 minutes. What really weird is that some of the better off farmers actually pave the road in front of their house to keep dust down. So you go a mile or so down gravel roads then hit a 150 foot stretch of pavement then back onto gravel for a mile or so and then pavement to about 150 feet.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    Those are some stunningly languid gears. You'd need a giant V8 to get anywhere with those.

    Yeah, unfortunately that was a sign of the 70's. :( They stuck those loafy axles in there in a vain hope of getting better fuel economy. In the 60's and earlier 70's, the typical tame Mopar V-8 rear was a 2.76:1, but sometime in the 70's they went to a 2.45:1 (I mistakenly typed 2.41:1, but that was the sucky ratio GM started sneaking into cars like my '76 LeMans :mad: )

    On the plus side though, some of those loafy 70's cars could hold first up to close to 50, and then practically skip 2nd and go right into 3rd! I guess the old saying that the bigger your engine, the fewer gears you really need does hold true.

    Once the automatic overdrive transmissions came out, they could shorten the axle ratio to give better acceleration, while still getting good highway economy. Ford was the first to take advantage of that. In 1980, the 4-speed automatics usually had a 3.00:1 axle, while the 3-speeds had a tamer 2.50:1. Some of 'em had 3.27:1 and 3.55:1 ratios, although they also offered a 2.73:1. GM didn't seem to take advantage of the overdrive in the same way though. Instead of putting in a quicker axle, they'd just go for even lower highway revs. Probably looked good on the EPA tests, but in real life you'd just end up having to downshift more for power, so fuel economy was probably a wash in many cases.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    I think the street I live on was finally paved in the 60's, but it was with what was basically a mixture of tar and rocks. They finally paved it with real asphalt in 1978.

    Right off the top of my head, I can only think of a few unpaved roads left around here, unless you go out on a farm or find some service road that runs along a power company right of way, or a private driveway or something. Just about any state, county, or city street is going to be paved. There is one street that runs on an old railroad right-of-way that goes back to some houses, and the last time I was out that way it was still unpaved. One of the farms gave way to a McMansion orchard though, so I'm sure it's been paved by now.

    One of my friends moved to a trailer park in Delaware a couple years ago, and it was unpaved...a combination what appeared to be ~#57 gravel and potholes.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Belgium has the most miles of lighted roadways in Europe and perhaps the whole world.

    And for you guys asking about what is faster to get around Europe Top Gear has proven time and time again it is always faster to drive...

    SLR VS boat part one

    Look to the right for parts 2-5.

    Ferrari 612 VS Jet Part 1
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    well my Geography isn't what it should be. But looking at Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Finland, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom have a total of 3,519,021 KM of paved roads. I am not sure how many other countries make up Europe but unless I am missing a bunch the rest of the countries have a long way to go to reach the US that has 4,164,984 KM of paved roads as well as an additional 2,242,673 KM of unpaved roads. So if we don't have more paved roads than Europe we sure have more than any other country I can find.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Ok so Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Finland, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom have 84.5% the mileage of the U.S. in paved roads.

    Now what about Ireland, Portugal, the Nederlands, Luxeumburg, Belgium, Norway, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Greece, Romania, Russia, Turkey (part of Turkey is in Europe) Several former soviet Republics, the countries that made up Yugoslavia, Hungary and maybe a couple others I may have missed?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Sorry. I listed Belgium and I was thinking Ireland was part of the UK. And I didn't know Russia was part of Europe because when I was in School the USSR was always listed separately and I never equated the new divisions as Europe. Still, we have a lot of paved roads compared to any other nation. Do you think I missed another 1,000,000 miles of paved roads?
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Member Posts: 265
    Do you think I missed another 1,000,000 miles of paved roads?

    Considering I didn't see Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Bulgaria, and finally two really big countries, Belarus and Ukraine, then when we add those to the ones already mentioned, it is quite possible.

    Not that it really makes that much of a difference.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Sorry. I listed Belgium

    Oops my mistake, sorry.

    I was thinking Ireland was part of the UK.

    Oh don't tell the Irish that.

    And I didn't know Russia was part of Europe

    Most of Russia is in Asia but there is a sizable portion (with most of the population) in Europe.

    Still, we have a lot of paved roads compared to any other nation.

    Since we are the fourth largest nation with the fourth largest population and highly industrialized I am not surprised.

    Do you think I missed another 1,000,000 miles of paved roads?

    It would have been 395,000 miles and I do think that the other half of Europe would have that many miles of paved roads.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    well that is what happens when you grow up with a NATO mentality. I grew up with a political perspective and sorted out all the communists countries in my head and even with the fall never put them back. I did look it up last night and saw that only part of Ireland is in the UK so I guess I dissed southern Ireland and the baltic states plus Russia and some others so I guess I should apoligise. to that group as well.

    But my main goal was to try and guess as to why we as a nation developed the car culture to the point where at one point SUVs and light trucks were "listed" as 50 percent of vehicle sales in the us?

    and you are right about some of our unpaved sections. we also have an additional 2,000,000 KM of unpaved highways.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    One part of the equation is simple to explain, though.

    Route 66 and simmilar "western" expansions/movements of the population during the 30s-50s. If you wanted to get to California or out west to escape the midwest dust bowl and depression - all you needed was your trusty hunk of Detroit steel and enough gas. See, we built these beautiful roads all over the west, and they were just sitting there...

    The idea that cars were equivalent to social and physical freedom - it stuck. Of course, movies and songs and so on - all helped make it a permanent part of our culture. Even today, most Americans feel like they're missing something if they don't have a vehicle.
  • crimsonacrimsona Member Posts: 153
    Poor public transportation plays a major factor too. It's hard to have a good public transit system when cities are so spread out with all the suburbs and such. I took a look at Vancouver vs Seattle on Google Maps - the difference in area is staggering, to say the least. And Vancouver's public transit is quite mediocre outside the Vancouver - Burnaby area.

    Cheap gas, huge highways, huge parking stalls... It's no wonder that SUVs took off. In Hong Kong my parents probably paid more for their parking stall for their condo (mid-sized sedan!) than what some homes cost in parts of the US. (over 100k USD)
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    You are right, we do have a lot of room. Americans also have a different outlook on personal space. That could be another reason we like our vehicles bigger or at least wider than most other countries manufacturing vehicles. Excuse me while I wax on about a theory why we have trouble with small cars.

    Let me give you some observed examples. I have noticed in European countries the proper distance between two people talking seems to be one arms length. If you are standing close enough to a person to touch them with your outstretched arm that seems to be comfortable to most people on a social basis. In Asia it seems to be half that distance. Except Japan where I found the proper distance confusing. Africa seemed to be about the same as Europe as far as conversation distance was concerned. In the US two arms distance is more acceptable. If I can reach out and touch another persons fully extended hand that seems about right for most social contact.

    Commercial contact is different as well. In Europe or at least England I noticed the seats on public transportation were a bit closer together. The distance between two people was about the width of your hand. A booth for four people would only sit four people even if your squeezed together. In Asia a booth for four people did not allow even a hands distance between the people. The Reason Japan confuses me is they allow more room to talk and eat but on the sub way they cram you in like a Sardine. (Talk about pressing flesh!) And they had cars that if there were two people sitting in them their shoulders would touch unless they were both women.

    In the US we sit about two hands apart on a bus, enough room so both people have an arm rest if they have arm rests. Even on a elevator we consider it too full if people are required to stand shoulder to shoulder.

    So besides out available room could it be our culture that makes us feel cramped if we aren't sitting an arms length apart? Isn't that what the Adds about Auto-claustrophobia are all about?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    But my main goal was to try and guess as to why we as a nation developed the car culture to the point where at one point SUVs and light trucks were "listed" as 50 percent of vehicle sales in the us?

    Well as I said before Europe is more tightly packed than the U.S. is they have way more than twice the number of people and only about 10% more land. So its a pretty short hop from one major are to the next.

    Now if I were to go west from my house it would be about a thousand miles before I hit any metro area of any considerable size (Denver). Drive through Nebraska sometime :sick:

    Also consider that for every mile of autobahn that Germany has they have 20 square miles of land. For every mile of interstate the U.S. has we have something like 80 square miles.

    I just think the differences of circumstances drives (no pun intended) the difference in cars we drive.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,408
    There's a whole different attitude between Van and Seattle, too. Van and the area is much more urban and developed in that large high rise residential structures are popular...not so much in Seattle, at least not yet. I do think that tide will change, and paying 400K for a 30 year old tract house located 30 mins minimum from anywhere you want to go, and can be a 2 hour drive in heavy commutes, will lose popularity. Public transportation down here is a joke, unless you live in downtown Seattle, you're really going to want a car if you need to go anywhere in a reasonable amount of time. The Van area beats it in every way. Small cars are also more accepted in Van, the (old) Yaris took off quite well there.

    On the wide cars/wide seating discussion...part of it has to be that Americans are usually wider than people in those other areas, too...
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,718
    the taurus felt more closed in than my focus, although it has more spreadout room. it was strange seeing
    the same outside door panels on the taurus as 10 years ago.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    state of Kansas was this: it's not as flat as you have heard it is! We drove down from the north end of Kansas right about the middle of the state, and headed south to the center of the state and then hitched up to I-70, or was it I-80? One of those. To take us eastward into Missouri.

    Anyhoo-I looked at the state extensively as we tugged our furniture and household possessions on east to Missouri. Everything we kept we fit into our '01 Kia Sportage 4x4 and behind it in our 4'X 8' utility trailer. BTW-the '01 Sportage 4x4 towed like a champion! What a great little Korean-built SUV. Ford, GM and DCX ought to sit up and take notice of HyunKia, they are superb carbuilders.

    Kansas is not as flat as a pancake...it rolls and rolls and goes up and down everywhere...it's not flat. Illinois is a lot flatter state IMO. Missouri is chock full of hills but does possess some less hilly, tornado prone areas. Actually, tornado's hit Missouri in hilly areas as well as flat. Stockton, MO, was torn asunder by tornado's in 2003, just before we moved over there.

    Interesting points about distances between people during conversations. I like a good two arms distance between another person and me while speaking face-to-face here in these United States, that I do.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • growwisegrowwise Member Posts: 296
    Even today, most Americans feel like they're missing something if they don't have a vehicle.

    You hit the nail right on its head. What more, I'll rephrase that..
    "most Americans feel like they're missing something if they don't have a NEW vehicle"

    BTW, I want a new vehicle :cry: I am tired of my 5 year old jalopy :blush:
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    BTW, I want a new vehicle I am tired of my 5 year old jalopy

    5 year old? I am pushing 7 and hope to get another 2-3 years out of it. :P

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • growwisegrowwise Member Posts: 296
    I see the financial sense of it.. But life is short and I am bored with my car. Is this normal?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I was noticing yesterday that my friend's new Lexus LS460 is considerably smoother, quieter and roomier than my xA. I was also noticing that it cost exactly 6 times as much.

    Is it a better car? Yes, in every way. Is it 6 times better. No.

    Somehow I was expecting the difference in the cars to be the same as the difference between Buffalo, New York and Maui.

    It's not like that. :P

    I like the new compact Mazda 3 Mazdaspeed. That would be a nice shifty car, and a nice compromise between too small and too big (or too small and too expensive and too big and too expensive)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    But life is short and I am bored with my car. Is this normal?

    Yeah its normal. But I have other things I want to do with my money right now.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    There are few cars in the compact range that I like enough to say I want one. Only one Sub compact meets the I want one test; the mini. The Mazda3 may be another exception. The Mazdaspeed Mazda3 even more so. What got me into the show room a few years ago was the SVT Focus. I needed a 4 Door so I ended up with the ZTS but the SVT was the car I liked best between all of the contenders. The Mazda3 does the same for me.

    So Scion will not be making a new xA or xB. They say the xB will be replaced with another box like the one it came in but there is nothing about the xA. What do you think they will replace the xA with?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I would be a lot more excited about paying a premium for a FWD "performance" compact if it had a real limited slip. The SVT was less powerful than the Dodge SRT4 and lacked the ability to put the power it did have to the ground effectively.
    I think the biggest advantage of the ITR over the Integra GSR was the limited slip, and that is also what gave Nissan a devoted following in the early 90s is most of their manual transmissioned vehicles were available with a limited slip differential.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    True, but the SVT was a bit easier to control than the SRT4. I don't remember if the SRT4 came out when the SVT was still being made but I drove one about a year ago. The SRT4 is oh-my-gosh fast. Pop in a chip and you have 300 HP to the front wheels without breathing hard. I could tell right away I would spend a lot of money or radar detectors and tires. But yes, the SRT4 impressed me.

    I wish we could get a Focus like they race in WRC but that isn't going to happen. Looks like Ford will take the manufacturers championship unless they blow it in the last race on the 29th. To lose they will need a DNF and Citroen will need 26 points, I don't think you can get 26 points in one race. Subaru is a distant third again. They can't win even if they are the only ones to show up.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I hope they make the Ractis the next xA. It's cool-looking in a very odd French-Japanese sort of way. I fear it will offend your eyes as much as the xB does now! :-P

    And I had a chance to test drive the new Suzuki SX4 tonight, and my opinion on its size has changed somewhat. You could almost call it a subcompact - I figure it can't be much bigger in any meaningful way than an xA. It's definitely smaller than a Matrix (I know because I had one), and maybe roughly the size of the Impreza, so it's probably bordering on compact size. But its wheelbase is only 98.4 inches, and you wouldn't want to put more than two adults in the back seat, width-wise. I would have a hard time if I had absolutely had to pick one category or the other.

    I left the dealer quite favorably impressed, by the way. It's hard to believe this thing only costs $15K. With shipping and the $300 package that includes cruise and a leather-wrapped wheel, it's a shade under $16K before fees. Almost exactly the same price as the Fit Sport, and equipped about the same, but with a lot more power (and 300 extra pounds of weight) and AWD. Kinda fun. :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • havalongavalonhavalongavalon Member Posts: 460
    It's cool looking, allright! The ultra low floor with rear access ramp must be really usefuI, but I wonder if this design can be compatible with North American bumper height and strength requirements... See picture in
    link title

    By the way, we have a new driver in our family so I've been following this thread for a while. Thanks in part to some enthusiastic reports here (which in this case I value more than CR's inexplicable ratings) we recently purchased an xA. I am very impressed and pleased not only with its price and included equipment, but also with how it handles, stops and goes in hilly, curvy, wet roads -- it's a blast to drive! Nothing at all wrong with it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I beat the snot out of that little car and it hasn't even burped once for the last 16,000 miles...but I also take very good care of it. Just had it all tightened up underneath. Once I wear the tires out (which is happening pretty quickly thanks to me) I'm looking forward to putting better rubber on it. Like you said, practical, useful, solid, fun and economical. The car was a slam-dunk bargain.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    and it was a blast to drive. Like you two I found nothing wrong with it. The future is all in subcompacts.

    The 2007 Suzuki SX4 is not very big, and that's precisely why I like it, Mr.Bond. The snobbish high-priced cars are boring cars and really don't interest me at all. The real new cars are small cars. It's all small cars.

    It's true. Catch the feeling.

    nippon...I caught hell in this very forum for heaping early praise on the 2007 Suzuki SX4. Now you're saying you like it and I have always liked the sport crossover for four seasons. It's Hip. Tragically Hip. :surprise:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    iluv,

    isn't the 2007 Suzuki SX4. some sort of a motorcycle :confuse: I didn't know Suzuki, made cars still....sorry :P

    Rocky
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