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No, it's not normal. But it *is* typical. :P
(If I felt I could get away trading in my relatively new Elantra for a new Miata, I would. But financial reasons prevent me from doing so, and I want that power retractable hardtop. Someday...)
I was convinced they would buy them because of their average height. I guess I was wrong :confuse:
Rocky
Rocky
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Even $11,000 is too much for the car. It has to be priced at the level of a good mid-range motorcycle, around $6,500 IMO.
I find it funny that before when you were thinking that they were going for 20K+ you said that was over priced and it should be in the low 10's. Now that they are you say thats over priced and should be around $6,500. I would guess that if it came down to $6,500 you would scream "its overpriced it should be under $5k".
As for being tiny it is supposed to be (even though the new ones are bigger) and as for unattractive, that is purely subjective,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Or to put it more simply, if you look at one, you don't see $20K or hardly $10K.
Some part of value of a product has to be "perception". This is why electronic gear is sometimes "weighted" to give it heft or why engineers spend so much time making car doors sounds solid, even if they aren't.
Some "value" is readily apparent, like a wooden ship model. Even if you knew nothing about them, you could see it has some value---there is obviously lots of effort in it.
Other kinds of "value" are pure hype, like old Barbie dolls--they have no intrinsic value.
With cars, "hype" can only take you so far---you have to also deliver the "ship model" kind of visible value.
One might say that a BMW is "overpriced" by "hype", but it also has beautiful paint and interior and feels solid as a rock.
I don't see how a Smart car is going to come out cute as a puppy and wag its tail and say "I'm worth $20,000 dollars".
cue obscure Top Gear Reference
How many "sales" are you talking about? A couple thousand? Sure, that's possible. I mean, what with credit being given to anyone with a pulse (or as the Finance guys say--"if you can see their breath on the mirror"), and that human tendency to be the "first" to have something, I could imagine a few thousand being sold country-wide.
But to compete with Scion or Hyundai at the same price point? No way.
Keep in mind they aren't trying to compete at the level that Scien or Hyundai are. Smarts aren't going to be nationwide and I am sure their volume targets are going to be very modest.
Actually all kidding aside, I do hope they set modest goals so that they don't look like a failure from the get-go.
I'm sure it will be a great little car for some affluent metro folks. I hope they have a garage though...if San Francisco is any indication, a little tyke like that will be rubble in 6 months parked on city streets.
Hey, my hair was shot off in the war!
10,000 sales a year...???
Join the club. God is great, God is fair, some he gave brains, the rest he gave hair.
But seriously I am considering one for my daily drive (for commuting). If it gets real good city mileage why not? 99% of the time its just me in the car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Were you Union or Confederate?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I agree. I checked it out, and ruled it out, long before I discovered the undoubtedly superior xA.
As soon as the Smart Fortwo arrived in Canada I was curious to test-drive one. It was a mild, snowy day in January 2005. With 1-2" of fresh snow on the dealer's lot, the poor thing was totally paralyzed, its rear wheels spun hopelessly. The high-heeled saleswoman and I had to push it out to the street where the snow had been cleared (on the plus side, it was easy to push!).
On the street and a few km of open highway it felt OK, but I found the semi-automatic 6-speed manual transmission distracting. This car "knew" when it needed to be shifted and instructed the driver to shift by flashing an arrow up or arrow down on the dash. Who wants that? Since it was "SMART" enough to know when to shift, why not just DO it itself? Not surprisingly they will offer an auto transmission in the USA -- in fact this should be the ONLY acceptable option (of course, it will cost more).
But I don't expect they will have improved on the inherently poor handling in snow of this ultralight, rear drive vehicle. Given this design, if at DC they are really SMART, they will just target urban areas... in the sunshine belt.
This car, about half the size and less than 3/4 the engine
should atleast get 55 mpg for me to even give it any
consideration. I agree anything above $7000 is
completely unjustifyable. The Merc brand is now
a joke. Read last few years consumer reports on
reliability. History can only salvage a brand
for so long.
The Toyota Aygo which gives close to 70mpg
on highway if priced under $8k will just blow this
away.
In any case, I still see more Smarts in Vancouver on a daily basis than Fits.
Or Versas
Or all Mercuries combined
Or all Buicks combined
Or motorcycles
Or Scions in a month (mainly due to Scion not being sold here...)
They must be attracting the right sort of people to do that
But, I'm glad you like yours. And, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the board.
From the posted article: The new Fortwo is larger then the original but is still a tiny car that can be parked perpendicular to the sidewalk without sticking into traffic.
This makes me lol. Can you imagine seing a little four foot parking spot and just parking perpendicular? LOL
Yes but thats barely 40 on the highway, the smart should far exceed that.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Might as well get a motorcycle, and cut out the middleman...and a tiny old Civic ot something for rainy days.
10,000 a year? I'd be surprised if they sold that many, unless they subsidized them (subvented leasing or low interest rates). But I dunno...I've seen weirder things happen in the marketplace.
you have to remember, this Smart car has been a loser from the get-go, and it's getting long in the tooth technically.
This is a last gasp effort, not a new product.
Scion xA -- yeah, okay, it's maybe not beautiful, but it isn't High Ugly like a you know what. :P
And besides I don't think I'm ready to experience the sterling DC reliability record, or the excellent dealer service. My heart's too weak for this level of total customer satisfaction.
How many there are in Vancouver really, I don't know; but they have been sold here for almost 2 full years and I still see them rarely. I'd say I see fewer than 1 per day and I spend about an hour a day driving in town. Actually I see more Used SmartCar For Sale ads in the paper, than Fortwos in the streets.
And yes, you can park a Smart car nose-first into a 4-5' space, but only if it's a convertible (you'll need a way to get out & back into it).
Happy U.S. Thanksgiving! Here in Canada we are ahead on at least some things, we already celebrated ours on Oct. 12
Correct. Scions are not sold in Canada, the few you see here have been imported individually (and are even more special, for this reason). And to protect the sizeable price difference between new US and Canadian cars, Toyota recently restricted its US dealers from selling ANY new cars to Canadian residents. So it is now only possible to export used US model cars to Canada (there is another Forum dedicated to this topic).
So have a very, very happy Thanksgiving, you lucky ones!
It actually should do ok in the snow with the proper tires.
The tires that came with the demo Smart car were simply hopeless on snow (on the level dealer's lot). I didn't bother to check what tires it had, I think that its RWD design was a contributing reason for failure. It definitely made me check the Smart off my list.
Thinking back, my last RWD car was a 1971 Alfa Romeo, a thoroughbred that didn't do well on snow, but was otherwise superb. For practical reasons, I've owned FWD and AWD vehicles ever since, starting with a great 1973 Fiat 128 4-door, 1500 cc FWD, that I realize now the Scion xA reminds of, it's as much fun to drive and very safe on wet pavement.
Seems more like... 2.
Mr Fit got sideswiped by rock solid Volvo (circa 94). Long horizontal scrape across both passenger doors. Would better handling have helped? Nope. Wall of cars on one side, concrete median on another. I wasn't even turning left!
Seems more like... 2."
OK, so you live downtown, in Richmond or along the Fraser Valley, maybe. On my way home tonight it was snowing/sleeting at medium elevations (300-1000 ft).
Mr Fit got sideswiped...
Oh - oh. Sorry to hear. True, our streets can be narrow and are getting crowded. Frustrating. Hope they will fix the Fit like new again.
Pretty funny-he drives it like a maniac in France's countryside and in small-town France. The photography employed highlights the action by filming it just right to magnify it's absurdly small size. Crowe's character hates the car, it's pretty obvious. The car gets weird looks from just about everybody and I would guess that those that already like the tiny car, though, will like it even more after seeing it in the movie. You want a tiny turning radius and, yes, a tiny parking space for your rig? Then this is your car.
I would look at the Brazilian-built Obvio! 828/2 retailing for $14,000 before I would even test drive a Smart ForTwo for $15,000. OTOH-a 2007 Suzuki SX4 offers more features and value for $14,999 than the Smart car. The Brazilian 828/2 is going to be a lot of car for the money, too.
The abundant choices are really nice to have. To throw another one in the mix I am curious what car Toyota/Scion is going to build to replace the wonderful Scion xA? I test drove a 2006 xA in 5-speed form and was socking that one away in my mind for many moons as being my next new car. Talk about a good way to let go of $14,000, that xA. Is it going to be a tall Ractis-type wagon replacing it? Another design? When does it arrive in showrooms? Anyone heard anything?
Continuing, favorite Kia is now building a mini minivan called the Rondo that will seat 7. Seven people? Did I read my Kia source correctly? They are also building a new car called the C'eed that looks interesting right up front, four doors in at least one of the C'eed models and an attractive, enticing body design. More use of the new "crossover" style and the C'eed is going to be here soon, too. The Rio5 is comparing very, very well to other new subcompacts to reviewers so far. It won a "best value" award recently (JD Power) for Kia along with their minivan. Kia continues to be a contender worldwide and they only get better and better each and every manufacturing year with big bro Hyundai. A parting thought, my 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4 still has not burnt out a single lightbulb at 123,335 miles.
That 2.0L 4-banger engine still humms with precision. It will take a great deal from Suzuki on a SX4 to steer me away from buying another new Kia, that it will. :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
You may have ended up with a couple of good ones, but the many folks who got the duds (and there were many), won't lose the bitter taste easily.
I had 2 Sephias as company cars: the '97 had its share of problems and consumed a quart of oil every 500 miles, the 2000 was built by Satan himself -- my employers offered it to me for $1 in 2005 and I turned them down flat!
All I have to do is mention KIA in a crowd and eyes roll heavenward amidst heavy groaning. It'll take 10-20 years to lose the stench of the early models.
The '01 Sportage has showed me how good this company can really be. There will always be a good portion of people who will investigate a company theirselves to see if they like it. Very competitive pricing, the Long Haul Warranty and some really impressive product have all combined to fix Kia firmly in place as a worldwide contender for the future.
They're growing in Europe big time and will be popular throughout Asia and as China's market grows. Americans and their Ford pick-em-up trucks, as hard as it is to believe, don't comprise the worldwide automotive market.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I would look at the Smart for $11,000 (its the convertible thats $15K) long before looking at the Obvio at $14,000. Plus since the Smart will have a dealer network to support it the Smart would be the much better bet.
OTOH-a 2007 Suzuki SX4 offers more features and value for $14,999 than the Smart car.
SO you are spending an extra $4K for what? I would not recommend an SX4 unless you are a cash strapped buyer who actually needs an AWD/4WD vehicle. Plus the SX4 gets what half the gas mileage of the Smart?
The Smart car is not for everyone and is not good for a primary car, but as a second car in a two (or more) car family where one is used (or can be used) only for commuting the Smart makes sense.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think it depends on the locality too. In Santa Barbara, where its hard to have a commute in the double digits, it makes a lot of sense. It is possible to get anywhere, reasonably quickly, using surface streets. In Loveland, OH (quite possibly one of the worst laid out communities I have ever seen) where you have to commute to Cincinnati every day for work on an interstate highway, Smarts make less sense.
So what? They grew here first, so I am not sure why you are dismissing the US market.
I have owned both a 1999 Kia Sephia and now own a 2001 Kia Sportage 4x4. The Sephia did have a few more problems but nothing major, all fixed under Warranty.
Well, I am glad for you. My experience with Kia Sephia has been less stellar, and their dealer service has been positively the worst I have ever experienced of any make. As for their famed warranty, they were willing to go to extremes to weasel out of it by calling an obvious part's failure a "normal wear & tear".
Overall it has not been the worst car I have owned, and it is actually reasonably comfortable and a decent handler, but their service and lack of commitment to their word left a bad taste in my mouth. I doubt I will look at another Kia for many years to come. I doubt any of my friends who have witnessed my struggles will look at one either.
You know the old saying about how you tell one person about a good experience and ten about a bad one? Well, some companies haven't learned that yet.
This is the best, the most succinct explanation of why I and many others really want a micro car, and the name of that social disaster is living in a big city. If I lived somewhere in the middle of nowhere, I don't think there is a snowball's chance in a hot place that I would buy a subcompact. Yet now, out of desperation for parking, maneuverability, and fuel cost I have managed to convince myself that I really like tiny cars.
Eh, call me a Grand Marquis dressed as a subcompact. Thanks, Mr_Shiftright, for that revelation.
New York City, for instance, takes pains to actually PUNISH car owners--so the car-owning situation is critical....ditto London, where you pay a tariff to enter certain parts of the city.
So yeah, zero parking, massive traffic, burdensome financial penalties from tolls, fines or gas prices---all that is a kind of "social disaster" for the driver.
Right now, say in San Francisco, I think a micro car would work for someone in the North Beach neighborhood, as long as they don't take to the surrounding freeways, where they will be harrassed within an inch of their lives. I'm laughing at I type this, thinking about the other day when I was being tail-gated by a school bus at 75 mph in the RIGHT lane of Highway 280!!
I strongly disagree! If a micro can do for me what I need of a subcompact, why would I even consider a subcompact.
Small is its own reward.
Why would you do that, if I may ask?
Absolutely! Why would I want to haul excess mass and occupy more real estate wherever I go if it is of no use to me? In fact, all other things equal, I would pay a premium for reduced size and mass.
You are in the extreme minority here. Millions of people do just this every day.