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A well-designed survey will filter that out. You wouldn't simply ask a respondent, "Rank your car's reliability on a scale of 1-5", for example. Instead, you'd ask them to list specific problems, the frequency of those repairs, and how those problems were resolved.
If you ask factually-based questions, and then throw in different questions elsewhere in the survey that look for contradictions and mistakes, then you should end up with a pretty good survey. Unless the pool of respondents lie, and consistently lie about the same things (which is unlikely over a large pool of respondents -- there's unlikely to be a conspiracy amongst the respondents), the survey data should be pretty good, within an acceptable margin of error.
Yeah my sister raves about how great her Toyota is even though it breaks down like clockwork. My neighbor raves about his Honda even though its been in for warranty work 3 times in the first year he had it including when the exhaust system fell off at 45 miles.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There import car could be a pile. However since their ego gets in the way and they are "above the common man" they will go to bat for their inferior vehicle. Even when it let's them down. The funny thing is when I ask them where there car is ? They tell me "so and so" is borrowing it.
I go that's funny your girlfriend told me it's in the shop. Well ummmm.
I'm like man you gotta lie to me about your accord being in the shop again because I harrassed you about buying a import, and even told you it wasn't any better than my car.
I told him you have to much pride, don't you.
Rocky
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Frankly I don't care about the problems. They all break once in a while. I care more about how good the car is when everything works. More often then not, when I ride in a 5 year old Camry or Accord, it feels tighter and smoother than my wifes 06 Ford 500. I rode in a friends '01 Accord 4cyl that was quieter and smoother than the v6 in the Ford.
The v6 in my MIL's Camry is buttery smooth and responsive, while the 3.0L Duratec in my wifes new 500 is coarse and slow. There are differences, nope, I guess it's all in my head.
If that's roughly the method, I'd say that's pretty good. The survey should strive to seperate fact from opinion (for example, it's good to find out whether people are "satisfied", but the surveyer shouldn't allow the respondent to confuse subjective measures such as satisfaction with specific itemizations of reliability), and should ask just enough questions so that you can get detailed responses without asking so many question that people fail to answer or just skip things toward the end.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
BTW- GM since 1992 has changed one helluva lot'
Rocky
Also all the Fords and GM's I have had were all awesomely reliable and maintenance free, so I guess we are even.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Rocky
I've removed the 3rd row in my burb a few times and it is very heavy and bulky. No way my wife would feel comfortable removing it, heck, I dread it when I have to remove it. Most of the time I can fold mine up and have more than enough room.
I see both sides on this issue. Since we use the 3rd row quite a bit, the lack of room behind the 3rd row is why we went with the Suburban.
I agree GM wasn't competitive years ago, but if you hold that same perception as you did in 92' then GM won't have a chance to earn back your buisness. Currently across the board GM is very competitive with the foreign competition. 2007 Well further close the gap and I figure by 2010 GM will meet or exceed the competition in all area's of
"Fit and Finish and Quality"
It will be very interesting indeed.
Rocky
And Chevrolet's "American Revolution" Revolution, please, it's more comparable to a "sit-in". We're going to just sit here (and wine), until you buy our cars.
Can your "rice burner" run on E-85 and save the enviroment ?
Can your V-8 "rice burner" shut down half of it's cylinders and get the gas mileage of a 4 banger ?
OTOH- Is your "rice burner" hybrid engine as efficient as GM/BMW/DC new 2-Stage hybrid motor ?
I don't understand how so many can knock the push-rod V-8's when they are more powerful than the Asian VVT engines that are a dime a dozen anf GM doesn't want to be like everyone else and blend in.
Isn't GM still #1 ? They must be doing something right.
Rocky
E-85 has a long way to go and it probably won't save the environment. More fossil fuel is consumed in the production of the ethanol (diesel for farm equipment, trucks, etc.) than is saved by using ethanol, unit per unit. And lets not even get into where we are going to grow all of the corn needed for our vehicles, even if it could be made efficiently.
Can your V-8 "rice burner" shut down half of it's cylinders and get the gas mileage of a 4 banger ?
Yes! Honda does not have a V8, but does have a V6 that can - and it has horsepower and performance equal to GM V8's. It runs on 3 cylinders at highway speeds and is standard equipment in some Odyssey models. And if the domestics have an 8 cylinder that good at it, why is it not in all of their cars?
Isn't GM still #1 ? They must be doing something right.
For now, but they are on the downward side of the curve, with Toyota on the upward side of the curve. K-Mart use to be the #1 retailer and they are bankrupt now.
OTOH- Is your "rice burner" hybrid engine as efficient as GM/BMW/DC new 2-Stage hybrid motor ?
Well, where is it? By the time it's in production, it will be outdated and outclassed by the Asians.
Can your "rice burner" run on E-85 and save the enviroment ?
Can your V-8 "rice burner" shut down half of it's cylinders and get the gas mileage of a 4 banger ?
OTOH- Is your "rice burner" hybrid engine as efficient as GM/BMW/DC new 2-Stage hybrid motor ?
I don't understand how so many can knock the push-rod V-8's when they are more powerful than the Asian VVT engines that are a dime a dozen anf GM doesn't want to be like everyone else and blend in.
Isn't GM still #1 ? They must be doing something right.
Now that is comical.
From every article on GMs DOD SUVS, the mileage is still horrible and the same 5.3 in an Impala and GP is getting no where near the mileage of a v6 much less a 4 banger. Most people I've talked to are lucky to break 20mpg w/o leisurely cruising down the highway.
E85, while nice, at best, will be a long way off to solve our energy problems. The industry can barely produce enough to replace MTBE, let alone the rest of our gas requirements. It has to be trucked instead of transported in a pipeline. Plus you get about 20% less fuel economy when using it.
Where is GMs 2stage hybrid? What car is it in so I can sample one.
The only reason GM's v8s are more powerful is by use of displacement. Still, a 5.3 Impala SS is only marginally quicker than a Altima/Maxima/Camry v6 and gets no where the fuel economy in real world driving. If you compare GMs v6's used in the Impala/GP/Lacrosse and it gets real ugly real fast. It's almost embarrassing to compare the 3.5/3.9VVT to Nissan or Toyota's 3.5 in HP/torque and fuel economy.
If current trends continue, GM won't be #1 in sales for much longer, and profits are what count anyway.
OTOH Ford and DC might be.
Rocky
Why do I have to buy a Denali to get the 6speed and why has the towing capacity of the 3/4 ton Suburban/XL lost over 2000lbs of towing capacity vs. last year? Even the 1/2 ton lost towing capacity. How is that progress. Sure it looks nicer but still same crappy 4 speed attached to the 5.3. At least the 6.0 is an option, but no 6 speed w/o going to a Denali. No big block and no diesel really has the towing crowd POd. Even with the 6.0L it can't match the low rpm torque in the Armada.
I'm not going to shell $50k+ for a Denali to get the towing performance I need. Heck a 1/2 ton Nissan Armada rated to tow nearly as much as a 3/4 ton Suburban (9,100 vs 9500lbs), that's pathetic, same with the '07 Expedition.
I guess I'll have to wait to see what the 07 Expedition and the new Toyota Sequoia will be like. At least the Expedition it will have similar weight, more torque vs the 5.3 and a 6speed auto.
One thing's for sure, why trade in my current Suburban that has more towing capacity than a new 1/2 ton. Man the guy's with the previous 3/4 ton with an 8.1 are sitting pretty. The H/D towing crowd will be clamoring all over them.
Gm is no better from what I read. This link to GM's financials says it all. Glad to see people finally coming around!
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=GM&annual
I couldn't be happier with the car. I'd extensively test driven a lot of other cars (being an enthusiast), but none of them held up to the same quality, refinement, and luxury I was looking for in that price range. And boo to Toyota for being lame and not offering the V6 Solara with a manual transmission. I refuse to drive automatics ever again, and Toyota lost me for not offering that. Besides, the Accord's seats were more supportive, and the manual transmission version gets special touches like perforated seats (which are incredibly comfortable). Plus it had the best ergonomics of all the cars I tested.
The Toyota Solara XLE V6 was the most expensive of the cars I drove, and while the interior impressed me, the handling left me wanting, and no 6MT meant no sale for Toyota. The second worse thing was there's no way to shut off Toyota's accursed stability control. Everyone else lets you shut it off for fun or when you need some wheelspin to get out of mud, so why not Toyota?
Nissan didn't get my money because I know people with the Altima SE-R 6MT, and it sucks gas in the real world situation. My best friend's buddy is getting 15L/100km on average in the city (that's about 15mpg roughly). Plus I don't like the sound of the VQ35DE, as torquey as it is. And the interior wasn't that great for the price. This was the real contender with the Accord in my shopping experience.
Mazda's 6 didn't feel as refined, and the interior was substandard to the Accord and Solara, so I crossed it off my list.
The Ford Fusion's plastic panels felt like they contracted out Fisher-Price to make them. I was really unimpressed by the interior in that car. The price was the most attractive though of all the cars I tested. And when I drove it, it felt very unsmooth and the top end lacked power compared to Honda's and Nissan's V6s.
The worst car of all though was the Pontiac G6 GT. It felt like a plastic mess inside, worse than even the Fusion, and rear visibility was heinous! For a 3.5L V6, the car felt a lot slower than the Accord, and even felt slower than the Acura TSX 6MT. The Pontiac was only available with a 4 speed automatic at the time I tested it. The leather also felt like pleather, and I was unimpressed with the busy dash layout. Yawn.
I didn't even consider Chrysler/Dodge because I don't want to be driving a car longer than a minivan (yes, the Charger's length bumper to bumper is close to or larger than a few minivans!).
BMW didn't get my money because they want too much of it for any sort of decent car. The 323i that they sell in Canada is the lowest of the low, and feels cheaper than the Mazda 6. I'm not kidding you. I wouldn't even consider anything less than an M3, and it costs way too much to buy and maintain.
Mercedes-Benz, same story as BMW. Unimpressed for the price. They have some nice cars far outside my price range. The C-class bores me though. I don't like how it feels lacking in quality compared to pedestrian cars like the Accord, Camry, and Sonata. You have to spend big bucks with Mercedes-Benz to get anything worth your while (at least an E-class).
Volvos look stupid to me, so I didn't even put them on my radar.
The Hyundai Sonata was nice because it came with so many standard features at much less than the Accord EX-V6, Solara XLE V6, or Altima SE-R. BUT, I didn't like the seats (too flat and slippery) and I didn't like the dash layout, nor did I like the fact that the car looks sorta boaty compared to the other cars I was seriously considering. The biggest crime of all is again, there's no V6 available with a manual transmission! No money from me for them. I also prefer coupes, and the Tiburon sucks compared to the Accord EX-V6 6MT. It's outclassed in EVERY category except price. I don't understand how it has worse fuel economy, but it does (from friend's experiences). Plus it looks like a toy compared to the more grown up look of the Accord, Solara, and Altima. I found this problem with the Mazda 6 too. It wasn't serious enough for me.
The Acura TSX was too expensive in Canada (about $3k more than the Accord coupe I bought) and I loved it, but at my age I need the extra power, and the 6MT TL was out of my price range by even more than the TSX.
Toyota's Lexus offers no models in my price range at all except a stripped down, same-speed-as-the-TSX, IS250. No thanks Lexus.
Diesel, I think your putting to much emphasis on tow ratings and you should be concentrating on getting a very reliable SUV. The Nissan Armacrap *excuse me* Armada might beable to tow more, but I'm sure it doesn't have the guts to pull that heavy of a load, up hills without bogging down. Just like Fords, they can tow a heavy load at low speeds, but at cruising speeds they can't pull a wet noodle out of a chickens butt.
ya want to wait for an Expedition with another 5.4 dinosaur. MY GAWD diesel. You need to honestly test drive one before you start jumping to conclusions about the new GM SUV's which I'm seeing more and more of. OTOH why not buy a Denali ? It's worth every penny in resale.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
I've driven both myself and :confuse: how you came up with a different feeling in the accord.
Neways best of luck with the accord.
Rocky
Long years of happyness with your Accord.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I've heard that with the Armada/Titan, the only way they're going to be able to actually tow their 9100 lb or whatever is if you get out of the truck and run alongside it! Supposedly, whatever weight you put in the truck itself, you have to subtract from the towing capacity. You can have one or the other, but not both.
Is that how they rate the towing capacity of all vehicles these days? :confuse:
All tow ratings are derived by the vehicles gross vehicle combined weight rating (GVCWR)
My current Suburban is rated at 7200lbs. Basically any additional weight after the driver needs to be subtracted from the tow rating. I've had 8 people + gear along with my near 5000lb boat and it was scary. Couldn't accelerate, could hardly stop and was unstable as well.
I see two reasons why the Suburbans have lost tow capacity. The 1/2 tons gained curb weight, which if the GVCWR doesn't change with the increase in curb weight, reduces tow capacity and two, the 3/4 ton Suburban doesn't have the 8.1 anymore.
You need to do a little more research on this. GM is in the most trouble by far and it doesn't look like it will get any better in the near future. But I believe it will get better FWIW.
BTW, it was in fact Sears that merged with K-mart but the surprise is that K-mart BOUGHT Sears to make that happen. It's one of the great turn-around stories this country has ever seen IMO.
I wouldn't buy a '99 Denali, but I would buy an '00 thru '06. My point is my current Suburban is rated to tow 7200lbs. But it really isn't 7200lbs when you add cargo and family. Since we take lots of trips with our boat and generally pull the boat thru hilly terrain (Branson, MO). I'm tired of struggling in the hills. Sorry man, but the fact is, the 5.3 absolutely sucks for towing any kind of weight up hills. Well actually its a combination of the 5.3 and trans. The gearing just isn't right for towing.
Your wrong on the Armada's towing ability. Yes it has other issues, but it's by far the best fullsize 1/2 SUV tow vehicle going in regards to power (The 07 Denali w/ 6.2/ 6 speed should be a beast, but I haven't read a tow test and it's way of the price range I'm willing to spend). I've been passed to many times with my foot to the floor going 45 up a mountain to be passed by an Armada with a bigger boat going 65+.
And yes, I put an emphasis on towing, but that is the ONLY reason we have an SUV. I have decisions to make because we are either going to get a bigger boat or a fairly large travel trailer to do more camping as well, so towing capacity is a big issue. If the current lineup of SUVs aren't going to meet my needs, I guess I'll have to consider a 3/4 ton P/U, which I like the idea of a diesel, but not a P/U.
Regarding the Expedition, have you driven an '07? I didn't think so, so we'll just have to see how good/bad it is. One thing about Fords, is they generally make a good tow vehicle. The 07 will weigh close to that of the Tahoe/Suburban, have more torque and more gears (1/2 ton) and more towing capacity. That sounds good enough to at least consider the possibility, because I know the '07 Suburban with a 5.3 will be marginally better than my '00 regarding towing power.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
So far I see evidence of GM spiraling completely down. Tahoe/Suburban? Perhaps good vehicles, for what they are, but timing couldn't be worse. Wait gas price climb another 20-50 cents and you get employee pricing again :P Impala is a dead body with some cologne on it - will start wearing out soon, Equinox is just pathetic with even more pathetic advertizing (how can they even think anybody buying Lexus RX 330 might be remotely interested in it?), Malibu - see Impala. Don't even get me started on Cav.., sorry Cobalt (when you replace arguably worst car of its class, to be an improvement is nearly not enough). Other than Ecotech engines, there is basically no REAL product development in small(er) vehicle area. For GM it is all about reskinning, repackaging the same sht they had for last ten years. To be fair, Cadillac is doing fine, it probably is the only division that has something real going on, but their interiors are still behind their class. They just have a following of people who would rather die than buy an import (and all those supplier/employee/I get you 5 grand off the sticker pricing schemes don't hurt, either, at least in short term).
Now lets look at DC - it is actually the only profitable NA manufacturer (and specifically Chrysler division). Lots of problems but not even close to GM. And they actually make products that get people excited, FWIW.
Ford is a mixed bag. Freestyle is just pathetic, Fusion would have been great if not the PR disaster they brough upon themselves with mishandling IIHC crash tests, current Focus is actually a step back from previous model, Fivehundred is not for me, but in gas price environment I can actually see people turning to it despite its pathetic performance.
It all comes back to product relevance: I just happen to think that a full line of gas hogs with 5.7, 6.1 or 8 or 15 liter engines is not an answer for today's demand. Suerely, there is a constituance for those vehicles, so Escalade will not suffer from lack of customers, but Tahoe/Suburban may tank very fast when gas prices go over 3 bucks. Ford's/DC's products have problems, too (some are really serious), but their concept seems to be much more relevant in a long run. It is much easier to correct a poor execution than change a wrong concept.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
GM, unfortunately, is headed in that direction too. It is sad but they are basically shooting themselves in the foot. What amazes me is how many people I know that have switched to asian makes in recent years because of bad issues they had with GM. I think someone already said it here, but the GM execs have been worried more about making their bonus instead of making good cars and making customers. All at the expense of the average Joe trying to make a living building the cars and the parts that go into them.
Same can be said of the reverse, if one visualizes GM being of poor quality, scream loud enough, scare off everybody thinking otherwise, dispel any possible doubts, it may so happen that the virtual reality becomes regular reality (that is what you are doing isn't it?).
Face it GM is not as bad as many make it to be, nor are Toyota and Honda as great as many make them to appear.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
OK, I can live with that. I just happen to not like any recent GM vehicle I came across. Correction - not really not like - just like less than their competition, which basically constitutes inferiority and not being worth the money. I might buy one, but only for a discount they would not be willing to give me.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
No it doesn't constitute inferiority, just means you have a preference for something different. Otherwise I could go around and say Honda is inferior simply because they have nothing that really excites me like some other manufacturers have.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
So, I can admit, some of it is perception, another part of it is a simple preference (vehicle/body type, powertrain type, etc.), however, at least half of it is still "hard" evidence, or if you will my interpretation of it.
My perception (confirmed by virtually anybody who knows anything about the industry) is that GM virtually abandoned small(er) car development for nearly 15 years (as huge SUVs were paying the bills, they sold nearly unchanged Cavalier), woke up wet last year and now they are trying to make up for the lost time. If they stay the course (which is not really given), provided they survive, it will likely take them 15 years to regain credibility in the area. Perhaps Rocky or you like to volunteer to try them during that time - I need evidence first. I will gather it through rentals, press, auto shows (attend every year) and will see. So far - not in a market for a Tahoe, and you know already what I think about current Cobalt, Malibu, Impala and Equinox (as well as their Pontiac/Buick versions). So - no GM for me, except perhaps Saab, but it is a long shot, too.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Already did, have a CTS-V (man what a ride), and if I sell my Zephyr this summer I might take that money and get the new Pontiac G6 Convertible the wife likes.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You are going to have to provide your definition of ergonomics.
I fear you, like many, are using ergonomics to mean tactile and looks of interior components.
Ergonomics is actually a term to define how the working parts of the car (or any other functional object) work with humans.
In fact, GM does a decent job with ergonomics. It is easy to get into a comfortable position in the seats, controls are easy to reach and intuitive, sight lines are pretty good.
I rent cars frequently. I always hate getting Toyotas, as even in the little Corrolla I can never get the seat where I can comfortably reach the pedals, steering wheel and electronic controls. I will grant they look better than in GM counterparts, but looks mean little when driving.
You mention the Subaru. I've rented the Outback twice this year. The seat and dash controls are well placed. I've yet to figure out exactly how to use the dang stalk windshield switch.
Good ergonomics means using such controls is a no brainer. GM does this pretty well, if not, well, pretty.
Oh, if you are using the term correctly, you are just plain wrong.
Also, I am looking at the new Toyota Yaris base sedan for a potential new purchase. Styling that people seem to not see much in but I really like, this new small sedan from Toyota. I would call it conservative but their Corolla sedan is conservative personified. 34 mpg city and 40 highway plus Toyota resale values are pulling me in. Humm...just looking...twist my arm.
Ford makes a good attempt with the Fusion, I actually like that shiny steel grille up there, it gives hope of a possible tomorrow for the original mass-producing American carmaker. Didn't realize the Ford 500 got that good of gas mileage. It does?
GM, with all their huge pick-em-up trucks and SUV's has done just that...ignored making fine new car products for too many years. We vote with our pocketbooks and look what is happening. Most of us here on Edmunds back around 2000-2001 were talking about the lousy cars GM was producing back then. It's not like it's some kind of secret, it's just amazing how many appendages GM must have that the monster that it is couldn't react sooner before BK hits, eh?
It's gonna get real interesting to see in the next couple of years if Geely and Chery (Visionary Vehicles Ltd.-Bricklin's brainchild)can pull off what Bricklin is basically calling the next best thing in automobiles...cheaper Chinese rigs that actually hold up to American driving habits. Will Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru and the like have to actually lower their prices then to continue to compete in the ever-growing market share of cars? Small cars? Kia, Hyundai, Honda and Toyota have and are continuing to expand their small car repertoire in preparation to compete strongly.
I'm not kidding, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy a new Kia car product these days. I know and understand their great value. Honda and Toyota build quality, resale value and ingenuity are very hard to beat but the Koreans are pushing very hard to catch them.
Would you spend hard earned pesos on a Geely or Visionary Vehicle? How about hard-earned American dollars? How many pesos would it take to buy a new Toyota Yaris base sedan in America with the Power Package? Just kidding. Isn't this fun?
Three things to take note of during a base Yaris sedan test drive.
1)See if the front seat tilts you uncomfortably forward toward the dashboard/steering wheel with not enough thigh support going on. This is an actual early Yaris test drive complaint. According to the post above the Corolla might just share the same problem. My Kia seats are supportive and ergonomically sound. Might be a real concern to me.
2)The location of the cupholders is apparently weak. They are up above on the center console, on each side I guess. Too small to hold our nice big Big Gulps(so what, I don't buy those) and they could possibly let hot coffee spill on our laps. Remind you of the McDonald's incident when reading that? Ignore this one, I think!
3)The electronic speed-assist steering is apparently very sensitive and C&D reviewers didn't like the car's tracking at speeds over 55mph. Two hands on the wheel is a must at speeds over 55mph. Would have to see this one for myself, stay tuned.
Over and out.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
2018 430i Gran Coupe
In fact, GM does a decent job with ergonomics. It is easy to get into a comfortable position in the seats, controls are easy to reach and intuitive, sight lines are pretty good.
But alas, human beings are individuals. And being individual, that means we are all different, and how a functional object works with one human may be totally different from how it works with another.
Ergonomics is little more than a marketing buzzword to make you think you've found the perfect car, appliance, whatever. In truth, it has more to do with what you're used to than the way something is designed. What's intuitive to one person could be alien to another.
For example, when I get behind the wheel of some of these Japanese cars that have the headlights mounted on a stalk on the steering column, or the cruise control buttons mounted on the little cluster down towards the right on the steering column, well to me that's alien. It's not what I'm used to; I don't find it the least bit intuitive, and I have to end up fumbling around for it.
Now I'm not trying to say GM has bad ergonomics. Or anybody, for that matter. But the overall effect is still one part how its designed, and one part how the driver is built.