Quick question...we have an 09 Civic that was just in for it's regular service. It has 20K miles on it and the service adviser said we need to replace the front brakes. I was a little surprised to say the least, at 20K miles? We have an 04 Odyssey with 70K+ miles and it still has the original brakes. We don't drive either vehicle hard, so I was wondering if I should try and push for some type of warranty issue, if they'd even consider that. My wife noticed some squealing today (from the brakes ) so I thought about dropping it off at Brakes Plus in the morning, but would go back to the dealer if I could get it done for free! Just curious what you pros thought.
Honda has been having all kind of brake issues lately. Although I didn't think it was involving the civic, and it is usually the rears on the Accord.
But, that is crazy on a small car like that, and they should give you some consideration. It does sound like something has to be wrong if the pads are shot already.
Several years ago my daughter took her car to Brakes Plus. They told her she needed both front and rear pads and rotors. Being in the business, I had a mechanic friend look at the car. He said it only needed front pads. Told my daughter never to go to Brakes Plus again.
If you have an independent mechanic you trust have them check the brakes. There is an article somewhere on Edmunds that IIRC was written by a former service advisor who said something to the effect that dealerships often advise to do routine maintenance long before its actually due. Not saying that that is the case here but its worth looking into.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
dealerships often advise to do routine maintenance long before its actually due
Some dealerships can't even keep their story straight, which makes you question their honesty. About one year, while having my oil changed on Mazda MPV, the service advisor recommends replacing all 4 brakes, as they do a free full circle inspection with every oil change. No thanks I say. About 4 months later at another Mada dealership for oil change, they report brakes good. Four months after that, back at original dealership, brakes are rated good. The morale of the story? Leave defective/broken/worn parts alone long enough... and they fix themselves. :surprise:
Some of the dealers absolutely do. When I had my 06 Avalon at 25K the dealer said "the font pads could be metal on metal anyday". Well, at 35K when I turned the lease in they were still OK.
Rule of thumb I always follow....do whatever the owner's manual says...no more, no less. The manufacturer designed and made the car. I figure they should know how to best maintain it.
It's funny, the first BMW I owned (when they didn't offer "free" maintenance), they recommended oil changes every 3K miles or so. Plus, they also recommended that every fill up that I put in "special" fuile injector cleaner (the dealer actually had their own branded injector cleaner) that you bought from them.
The 2nd BMW I owned, under the "free" maintenance, oil changes were only stipulated via the maintenance minder (or about 10K-13K miles). No injector cleaner required.
Funny how maintenance requirements change depending on who's paying for it.
I usually let the dealership do maintenance while the car is in warranty. I figure if something goes sideways, I can always take it back to them and they can't blame an independent shop. Outside of the warranty period? I've got an independent ASE guy I've used for years. I'd put his knowledge and work against any dealership's knowledge and work, all day, every day.
It has 20K miles on it and the service adviser said we need to replace the front brakes.
Wow. I managed to get 60K out of the pads and rotors on my MS3, and my driving style is anything but sedate- and that also included a few track days. My adviser told me I had @1 mm of pad lining left before replacement was required, but I don't like to scrimp on brakes. And as for Brakes Plus? I avoid almost all franchise repair chains. I have a couple of decent dealers I can use as well as a couple of first-rate independent shops. In any case, I like to know the brand and grade of pads/rotors I'm paying for. The "house brands" won't cut it for me.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Thanks everyone! I did call the dealer this morning and spoke with the service manager who said to bring it in and they'd see what they could come up with. I don't have a local mechanic that I'm familiar with let a lone trust so I went by the referral of a local consumer advocate who has a radio show in town and his own referral list. Truth be told, I'd normally stay away from the chains as well, but since he listed them, I felt I could give them a shot.
I did call the dealer this morning and spoke with the service manager who said to bring it in and they'd see what they could come up with.
Which dealer is this?
I had the brakes done on my L300 not long ago and had the local Midas do the work. Don't know who owns the franchises in Parker, but here in C.R. the local folks have a good reputation.
so I went by the referral of a local consumer advocate who has a radio show in town and his own referral list
I'm guessing that would be Mr. Martino. You may be interested to note that Mr. Logan (former NFL player and now the play-by-play guy for the Broncos) now has a referral list of his own ... be interesting to compare the two.
I first replaced the front pads & rotors on my '01 Prelude Type SH @ 87,000 miles. I had the rear pads changed at that time too. I just replaced my rear pads (again) & rotors (for the 1st time) @ 120,000 miles.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
All you need to be on Martino's list is a check book. I don't know if Logan works the same - I sure hope not.
I'm not surprised ... :mad:
Just another income stream.
I have to admit that I enjoy the shows where Martino has Rollie Purifoy on as a guest; Rollie owns a Chevrolet dealership outside of Denver and has some pretty decent insight into the workings of a dealership - both sales and service.
Some dealerships can't even keep their story straight, which makes you question their honesty.
Couldn't agree more. Our 1995 Volvo had a stalling problem The original garage couldn't fix the problem but told us we needed front brake pads. They couldn't fix the problem so we went to another dealer and they didn't really fix the problem but they said the rear brakes needed new pads.
I think they had a warranty job to do and they just wanted to add on extra work for themselves. We drove the car for about 6 more months and then handed it back early on the lease....and didn't change any brake pads. The early buy out wasn't too bad, but the car came from a really small dealer who probably had a waiting buyer.
It sounds like you may have been sold rotors you didn't need.
Unlike BMW's and other European cars, it is rare to have top replace rotors on Hondas unless they have already been turned several times or they have been allowed to go metal to metal.
I know some of the "chains" love selling rotors and calipers that aren't needed.
It was Schomp, and when I called back to make an appointment, I got the song and dance about how my driving habits could have contributed in some way, so basically don't count on it being a warranty issue, not after 12K miles anyway. I just wanted to tell him we have a Civic and an Odyssey, how much of a hot rodder could I be in either one?
I had heard about Logan's referral list a while back, but I'm not really sure how the two offer any credence? I can see how a consumer advocate might have some insight in companies to use and avoid, but not an ex-football radio commentator.
My thought right now is to get the pads replaced as inexpensive as possible, it's a leased car and I'm itching to dust off my CCB card anyway!
That's funny Cliff, I've heard Martino saying the same thing about the BBB here in town. I guess I need to poke around and find a good independent around here. I'll check out Logan's site and see who he recommends if anyone. Thanks again though for all the help guys!
For something like a Civic, you may want to check Yelp and see what shops others in your area are having good luck with. Good chance you'll find something...
Heck my 2001 ext cab Silverado still has the original pads and rotors. I keep thinking I should replace them, but they still look good. Hard to believe, but I have had it for nearly 10 yrs and over 190,000 miles.
Thanks for the heads up, but it definitely wasn't a chain. I deal with an independent speed shop (Honda Specialist/nut). I knew I needed new rear pads because they were squealing (squeaks, squeals, & rattles drive me bonkers). I brought it to him & he said he'd put new pads on (Hawk) and check out the rotors while the pads/wheels were off. He told me the rotors needed to be changed & said they're cheap, so being the maintenance freak I am, I said to do it (Like I said, after 120K & 8 years it can't hurt).
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I think any modern car has audible brake notifications that "squeal" when they need to be changed. Regardless of mileage, I change out the pads when I hear that "squeal".
Unless I feel a bump, thump, drumming in the brake pedal, I usually decline new rotors.
A little update on my friend's SHO (which is actually his wife's car). They've been shopping it around a little bit. It has about 6K miles on it. All loaded up and pristine. He "says" he paid $41K for it ($44K MSRP). Best trade offer he's received is $33K.
6K miles=$8K depreciation hit.
Asked what his bride is looking for? An Acura TL, like mine, different color, though.
Don't know if the SHO is an auction car, or not. My dealership (who they visited) usually only keeps certified Acura's on their lot in the $30K plus price range. All the rest of their used lot are made up of cars under $20K.
6K miles=$8K depreciation hit. Asked what his bride is looking for?
Wow, that is an expensive rental car. Since cars lose 20 or 25% of their value as soon as they leave the showroom it actually isn't too bad of a hit considering. And, what will the dealer get for it? At least it won't need much of a clean-up.
My experience is that when someone is that unhappy with their purchase that quickly, they are seldom happy with anything they get. Whatever they don't have is always better. Maybe she did learn a lesson, that some cars are too big for some people, but I got a feeling this will be a continuing saga.....but an interesting one to follow.
P.S. On a slightly different topic: Heard any runaway Toyota stories lately? That problem seems to be solved.
PPS. Hope we get an update on what Honda says about those brakes. Needing a brake job after 20k is ridiculous! I'll be pleasantly surprised if they fix it under warranty, although they should.
For about a year and half (over 10 years ago now) my ride to work was all the way up RT 76 in Philadelphia AKA the Schuylkill (or as some call it the "SureKill") expressway. Bumper to bumper traffic and lots of crazy drivers. I would wear out a set of front pads in 15K miles (this was of course on a beater 79 Continental but I also wore out the pads on my Solara at around 20K and only drove that to work once in a while). FWIW I did complain to the dealer and they replaced the pads and rotors on the Solara under warranty.
A number of years ago a representative of Martino's came into where I was working and basically said that Martino had good reports on the dealership and for $x,xxx per year we could be on his recommended list. Also, knowing the dealership he endorses I would be very wary of his list.
The best brakes I had were on my 1979 Cutlass. At 85000k they had to be replaced, lots of tread left but he said the pads were glazed over so should be replaced.
15K though. I can't imagine needing new brake pads almost every year. That must be quite a highway. Though the big Lincoln probably wasn't the easiest car to stop either.
A guy doing deliveries in San Francisco may go through a set of brake pads in 10,000 miles vs. a guy driving the freeways of Montana may never wear out a set of pads.
Nobody ever wants to blame themselves or just maybe realize their 17 year old son may be an abusive driver (as I was). It MUST be the fault of the car!
Constructed over a period of ten years from 1949 to 1959, a large portion of the expressway predates the 1956 introduction of Interstate Highway System; many of these portions were not built to contemporary standards. The rugged terrain, limited riverfront space covered by the route and narrow spans of bridges passing over the highway have largely stymied later attempts to upgrade or widen the highway, despite the road being highly over-capacity; it has become notorious for its chronic congestion. It is the busiest road in Philadelphia, as well as in the entire commonwealth of Pennsylvania. An average 163,000 vehicles use the road daily in Philadelphia County, and an average of 109,000 use the highway in Montgomery County. Its narrow configuration, left lane entrances and exits (nicknamed "merge or die") and generally congested conditions have led to many accidents and the highway's nickname of the "Sure-Kill Expressway" or "Surekill Distressway".
A friend posted this on another forum. As a bit of background, he's self-employed in a retail industry and he is NOT an inveterate cheapskate. (The post has been edited for language only)
*censored* used car dealers...
I hate 'em.
Stopped to look at a Tacoma in Springfield at the Toyota Dealer. 2006. He wants $19,999 for it he tells me, but /IF I BUY TODAY HE CAN DO BETTER./ Oh, *censored* you pal....don't pull that crap on me, I'm not a 20-year-old looking to buy my first ride. Truck looks pretty good, the guy is on me like a heat rash. I tell him that no matter how much black tire dressing they put on the truck, the tires are shot and need replacing.
He says "No-no, we never sell a truck that has less than 50% usable tire life left, those are fine".
I say "Yeah, well you better look again, the fronts are on the treadwear indicators and the backs are 4/32's at best."
Sales jerk says/ ""YOU BUY TODAY AND I WILL PUT NEW TIRES ON IT."/
How did I now know that was coming??
I know that even if I *censored* around with it - and him - its still going to be more than I want to spend. So as I get back into the Boxster he's " /"""LET ME TAKE A THOUSAND OFF, DON'T DRIVE AWAY...AND I PUT NEW TIRES ON IT FOR YOU." $ 18,999! THAT'S A DEAL!!"
/Meh.
I go home and browsing the car ads last night..there's the same damn truck at $ 16,499 listed by their dealership on C/L. And these mutts wonder why they have no credibility.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
In my long quest to replace the convertible that doesn't convert I see a local dealer advertising an 07 Fusion with a stick and a sunroof. I figure this is worth a look - until I check price. $4K over the highest book I could find! I already know the routine. "Look, we cam down $2K. You have to meet us halfway." No, thanks.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
A guy doing deliveries in San Francisco may go through a set of brake pads in 10,000 miles vs. a guy driving the freeways of Montana may never wear out a set of pads.
I knew a guy that had put nearly 200K on his car and never replaced the brakes. Of course he lived in rural IL and on his 40 mile one way commute to work he probability used his brakes less than 10 times. He only used that car for commuting to work.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Kind of reminds me of when Suzuki came out with the SX4. I got into a discussion about this vehicle so I stopped by a nearby dealership to take a look at it. This dealership had on this $16K car a $4K ADM sticker.
A salesman came up to me and asked if I was interested, I used the ADM sticker as an excuse and he said "we can work on that". I was tempted to say "paying sticker would be overpriced on this car" (it was).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Its narrow configuration, left lane entrances and exits (nicknamed "merge or die") and generally congested conditions have led to many accidents and the highway's nickname of the "Sure-Kill Expressway" or "Surekill Distressway".
You brought back some memories with the mention of that road alright. Back in the late 60’s and early 70’s going to Atlantic City (before it went all the way down hill and before the casinos took over) we used to go their on vacation and that was the route we took. It was always a mess in the morning on the way there and at the rush hour on our way back. Why I did this to myself I still don‘t know.
The trip home I remember most was when there was an accident about a mile up the road and people were pulling over to the right and were about three deep sideways. I don't know how they even did that. I had no place to move but to rub my door handle on the left guard rail. As the Pa State Trooper was weaving around all the cars when he got to where I was it was a tight squeeze. When he got along side of me on the right he motions to Mrs. j to roll down her window. He then starts in on me telling me that I should be on the right not the left. I told him where I was, was the best I could do. He goes on to tell me that if he wasn’t in such a hurry to get to the accident he would give me a ticket and still might if he saw me up the road at the accident site. No, I didn’t get off because there was no place to exit but by the time I got there he was too busy directing traffic to bother with me.
You know who still reminds me of that day. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
it is actually better than it used to be. They rebuilt the whole king of prussia interchange, and paved it all recently. So at least the ride is smooth.
I spent about 10 months in the last 2 years working out there (past valley forge), so did the entire length (or a little less, if I went through town to the other bridge), from NJ to valley forge.
And that was in a stick, but my left leg survived. and up to 56K on my brake pads, the fronts at least, are just fine. rears wore out in 40K, due to lousy caliper design.
As to the sure kill, the key is avoid rush hour. If I hit it by 6:20, my 44 mile commute I could make in 50-55 minutes.
coming home? Leaving work at 3:45, and it could be an hour. more often 1:15-1:30. Sometimes 2 hours. Once 2.5. That day, my left calf was a triffle sore (for about a week).
We were on it a few weeks ago on a Sunday heading out to King of Prussia for a memorial service for my wife's uncle. It was an absolute parking lot until we got a good piece out of the city. A real kidney stone of a drive.
jmonroe - Yeah, AC used to be a great place to go. I live a half hour from it and heave not been in years.
Back in the day there was a fabulous Italian restaurant on Atlantic Avenue called Luigi's. In the 80s PBS did a thing on the effects of casinos on AC. They interviewed Luigi who went into Resorts the first day it opened and saw the strategy of giving you no reason to leave the building. He put his restaurant up for sale the next day and got out while the getting was still good. I can still taste the veal parm....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Yes, much better. When I used it, it was a solid line of backup from the Blue Route all the way to 202. Getting off at 202 south was so bad (due to 422 being off that ramp too) I would actually get off at 202 N, hit the u-turn and be 5-10 minutes to the good everyday.
I used to try and be out the door by 6 otherwise I had to deal with the mess at City Line avenue, as well as further up.
The absolute worst was Friday afternoons in the summer or whenever there were events at the stadiums, like you mention 2 hours to go 40 miles was not uncommon for me.
I am a bit spoiled by my commute now, however it can still take me 45 mins to go 12 miles on the way home. I can't wait until 295 is all done.
Funny story on that road. It was around Christmas time and my GF wanted to go to the outlet stores in Lancaster, PA on a Saturday afternoon. Well traffic was thick but moving. Something happened ahead and caused traffic to come to a stop from about 50. I stopped in plenty of time, the person behind me almost hits the Genny and then the fun began. A small white car obviously couldn't stop, swerves into the right lane and nearly side swipes my car. She was flipping out since it was on her side. Naturally, this was all my fault. :confuse:
I think the old adage still applies...."a car is worth exactly what someone else is willing to pay for it."
Personally, I can't see getting panties all bunched up over any car deal. If I don't like it, for any reason, I'll move on.
Same goes for dealerships I try to avoid like the plague. There are some that just seem to want to use all of the tricks....ADM, "mop & glo", etching options, etc. Typically, they employ a sales person who quickly gives way to the closer. And, it's clear from the "get go" they're going to want to grind to the very last nickel.
I have no use for those places. They can never seem to understand why I won't engage them at the negotiation table. Usually my reply goes something like this...
"By the time we negotiate away the ADM, get down to the nitty gritty, at which time I may, or may not have a deal with you because I don't want to listen to your bump, I could be down the road in a new car from somewhere else".
ADM, "mop & glo", etching options, etc. Typically, they employ a sales person who quickly gives way to the closer.
I am with you GG, I wouldn't spend any more time than I need to in these dealerships. However, I think there is a large segment of the population who just don't know better.....and these techniques work on them.
All dealerships have to carve out their market. Some do it on low price, some on fair price and service, some with a seemingly low price to bring you in the door....and then try to con you into extras. That might actually be the largest segment in the market, who knows.
Anyone have thoughts on manual vs. automatic in this discussion. I bring this up because my 94 Civic five-speed was 13 years old and had somewhere between 125K and 130K on the clock. It was still on the original pads and rotors. About six months before I sold it the mechanic stated that the front pads still had more than 50% of material left and the rear even more.
I did have a tendency to downshift quite a bit (a habit I've since kicked). I know the experts say you shouldn't use the transmission to slow the car because the brakes are much, much cheaper to replace. Funny thing is the clutch still worked beautifully and I never heard any errant sounds from below.
Conversely, I had to have the rotors turned at about 58K on my MR2 (also a five-speed) because of annoying pulsation. However, approximately 56K of those miles were put on by the first owner so maybe he rode the brakes. He supposedly used the car as a commuter vehicle between Wichita and Kansas City so one wouldn't think there would be that much stop and start. As we all know though, salespeople (and buyers) don't always tell the whole truth.
I think you are correct. My 1999 Wrangler needed front pads at 49K(right after I bought it). When I recently rotated the tires at 107K the pads checked out at a bit over 50% worn...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Comments
But, that is crazy on a small car like that, and they should give you some consideration. It does sound like something has to be wrong if the pads are shot already.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Some dealerships can't even keep their story straight, which makes you question their honesty. About one year, while having my oil changed on Mazda MPV, the service advisor recommends replacing all 4 brakes, as they do a free full circle inspection with every oil change. No thanks I say. About 4 months later at another Mada dealership for oil change, they report brakes good. Four months after that, back at original dealership, brakes are rated good. The morale of the story? Leave defective/broken/worn parts alone long enough... and they fix themselves. :surprise:
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
It's funny, the first BMW I owned (when they didn't offer "free" maintenance), they recommended oil changes every 3K miles or so. Plus, they also recommended that every fill up that I put in "special" fuile injector cleaner (the dealer actually had their own branded injector cleaner) that you bought from them.
The 2nd BMW I owned, under the "free" maintenance, oil changes were only stipulated via the maintenance minder (or about 10K-13K miles). No injector cleaner required.
Funny how maintenance requirements change depending on who's paying for it.
I usually let the dealership do maintenance while the car is in warranty. I figure if something goes sideways, I can always take it back to them and they can't blame an independent shop. Outside of the warranty period? I've got an independent ASE guy I've used for years. I'd put his knowledge and work against any dealership's knowledge and work, all day, every day.
Wow. I managed to get 60K out of the pads and rotors on my MS3, and my driving style is anything but sedate- and that also included a few track days. My adviser told me I had @1 mm of pad lining left before replacement was required, but I don't like to scrimp on brakes. And as for Brakes Plus? I avoid almost all franchise repair chains. I have a couple of decent dealers I can use as well as a couple of first-rate independent shops. In any case, I like to know the brand and grade of pads/rotors I'm paying for. The "house brands" won't cut it for me.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The way the car is driven has everything to do with how long they last.
20,000 miles sounds way premature unless the car has an abusive driver.
And, I would avoid the "chains" like the plague!
Which dealer is this?
I had the brakes done on my L300 not long ago and had the local Midas do the work. Don't know who owns the franchises in Parker, but here in C.R. the local folks have a good reputation.
so I went by the referral of a local consumer advocate who has a radio show in town and his own referral list
I'm guessing that would be Mr. Martino. You may be interested to note that Mr. Logan (former NFL player and now the play-by-play guy for the Broncos) now has a referral list of his own ... be interesting to compare the two.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I'm not surprised ... :mad:
Just another income stream.
I have to admit that I enjoy the shows where Martino has Rollie Purifoy on as a guest; Rollie owns a Chevrolet dealership outside of Denver and has some pretty decent insight into the workings of a dealership - both sales and service.
Couldn't agree more. Our 1995 Volvo had a stalling problem The original garage couldn't fix the problem but told us we needed front brake pads. They couldn't fix the problem so we went to another dealer and they didn't really fix the problem but they said the rear brakes needed new pads.
I think they had a warranty job to do and they just wanted to add on extra work for themselves. We drove the car for about 6 more months and then handed it back early on the lease....and didn't change any brake pads. The early buy out wasn't too bad, but the car came from a really small dealer who probably had a waiting buyer.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Unlike BMW's and other European cars, it is rare to have top replace rotors on Hondas unless they have already been turned several times or they have been allowed to go metal to metal.
I know some of the "chains" love selling rotors and calipers that aren't needed.
I had heard about Logan's referral list a while back, but I'm not really sure how the two offer any credence? I can see how a consumer advocate might have some insight in companies to use and avoid, but not an ex-football radio commentator.
My thought right now is to get the pads replaced as inexpensive as possible, it's a leased car and I'm itching to dust off my CCB card anyway!
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
I did look at Logan's site, looks to be all contractor/construction related.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Unless I feel a bump, thump, drumming in the brake pedal, I usually decline new rotors.
A little update on my friend's SHO (which is actually his wife's car). They've been shopping it around a little bit. It has about 6K miles on it. All loaded up and pristine. He "says" he paid $41K for it ($44K MSRP). Best trade offer he's received is $33K.
6K miles=$8K depreciation hit.
Asked what his bride is looking for? An Acura TL, like mine, different color, though.
Don't know if the SHO is an auction car, or not. My dealership (who they visited) usually only keeps certified Acura's on their lot in the $30K plus price range. All the rest of their used lot are made up of cars under $20K.
Asked what his bride is looking for?
Wow, that is an expensive rental car. Since cars lose 20 or 25% of their value as soon as they leave the showroom it actually isn't too bad of a hit considering. And, what will the dealer get for it? At least it won't need much of a clean-up.
My experience is that when someone is that unhappy with their purchase that quickly, they are seldom happy with anything they get. Whatever they don't have is always better. Maybe she did learn a lesson, that some cars are too big for some people, but I got a feeling this will be a continuing saga.....but an interesting one to follow.
P.S. On a slightly different topic: Heard any runaway Toyota stories lately? That problem seems to be solved.
PPS. Hope we get an update on what Honda says about those brakes. Needing a brake job after 20k is ridiculous! I'll be pleasantly surprised if they fix it under warranty, although they should.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
For about a year and half (over 10 years ago now) my ride to work was all the way up RT 76 in Philadelphia AKA the Schuylkill (or as some call it the "SureKill") expressway. Bumper to bumper traffic and lots of crazy drivers. I would wear out a set of front pads in 15K miles (this was of course on a beater 79 Continental but I also wore out the pads on my Solara at around 20K and only drove that to work once in a while). FWIW I did complain to the dealer and they replaced the pads and rotors on the Solara under warranty.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
The best brakes I had were on my 1979 Cutlass. At 85000k they had to be replaced, lots of tread left but he said the pads were glazed over so should be replaced.
15K though. I can't imagine needing new brake pads almost every year. That must be quite a highway. Though the big Lincoln probably wasn't the easiest car to stop either.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
A guy doing deliveries in San Francisco may go through a set of brake pads in 10,000 miles vs. a guy driving the freeways of Montana may never wear out a set of pads.
Nobody ever wants to blame themselves or just maybe realize their 17 year old son may be an abusive driver (as I was). It MUST be the fault of the car!
From Wiki:
Constructed over a period of ten years from 1949 to 1959, a large portion of the expressway predates the 1956 introduction of Interstate Highway System; many of these portions were not built to contemporary standards. The rugged terrain, limited riverfront space covered by the route and narrow spans of bridges passing over the highway have largely stymied later attempts to upgrade or widen the highway, despite the road being highly over-capacity; it has become notorious for its chronic congestion. It is the busiest road in Philadelphia, as well as in the entire commonwealth of Pennsylvania. An average 163,000 vehicles use the road daily in Philadelphia County, and an average of 109,000 use the highway in Montgomery County. Its narrow configuration, left lane entrances and exits (nicknamed "merge or die") and generally congested conditions have led to many accidents and the highway's nickname of the "Sure-Kill Expressway" or "Surekill Distressway".
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
(The post has been edited for language only)
*censored* used car dealers...
I hate 'em.
Stopped to look at a Tacoma in Springfield at the Toyota Dealer. 2006.
He wants $19,999 for it he tells me, but /IF I BUY TODAY HE CAN DO
BETTER./ Oh, *censored* you pal....don't pull that crap on me, I'm not a
20-year-old looking to buy my first ride. Truck looks pretty good, the
guy is on me like a heat rash. I tell him that no matter how much black
tire dressing they put on the truck, the tires are shot and need replacing.
He says "No-no, we never sell a truck that has less than 50% usable tire
life left, those are fine".
I say "Yeah, well you better look again, the fronts are on the treadwear
indicators and the backs are 4/32's at best."
Sales jerk says/ ""YOU BUY TODAY AND I WILL PUT NEW TIRES ON IT."/
How did I now know that was coming??
I know that even if I *censored* around with it - and him - its still going to
be more than I want to spend. So as I get back into the Boxster he's "
/"""LET ME TAKE A THOUSAND OFF, DON'T DRIVE AWAY...AND I PUT NEW TIRES
ON IT FOR YOU." $ 18,999! THAT'S A DEAL!!"
/Meh.
I go home and browsing the car ads last night..there's the same damn
truck at $ 16,499 listed by their dealership on C/L. And these mutts
wonder why they have no credibility.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
In my long quest to replace the convertible that doesn't convert I see a local dealer advertising an 07 Fusion with a stick and a sunroof. I figure this is worth a look - until I check price. $4K over the highest book I could find! I already know the routine. "Look, we cam down $2K. You have to meet us halfway." No, thanks.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I knew a guy that had put nearly 200K on his car and never replaced the brakes. Of course he lived in rural IL and on his 40 mile one way commute to work he probability used his brakes less than 10 times. He only used that car for commuting to work.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A salesman came up to me and asked if I was interested, I used the ADM sticker as an excuse and he said "we can work on that". I was tempted to say "paying sticker would be overpriced on this car" (it was).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You brought back some memories with the mention of that road alright. Back in the late 60’s and early 70’s going to Atlantic City (before it went all the way down hill and before the casinos took over) we used to go their on vacation and that was the route we took. It was always a mess in the morning on the way there and at the rush hour on our way back. Why I did this to myself I still don‘t know.
The trip home I remember most was when there was an accident about a mile up the road and people were pulling over to the right and were about three deep sideways. I don't know how they even did that. I had no place to move but to rub my door handle on the left guard rail. As the Pa State Trooper was weaving around all the cars when he got to where I was it was a tight squeeze. When he got along side of me on the right he motions to Mrs. j to roll down her window. He then starts in on me telling me that I should be on the right not the left. I told him where I was, was the best I could do. He goes on to tell me that if he wasn’t in such a hurry to get to the accident he would give me a ticket and still might if he saw me up the road at the accident site. No, I didn’t get off because there was no place to exit but by the time I got there he was too busy directing traffic to bother with me.
You know who still reminds me of that day. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I spent about 10 months in the last 2 years working out there (past valley forge), so did the entire length (or a little less, if I went through town to the other bridge), from NJ to valley forge.
And that was in a stick, but my left leg survived. and up to 56K on my brake pads, the fronts at least, are just fine. rears wore out in 40K, due to lousy caliper design.
As to the sure kill, the key is avoid rush hour. If I hit it by 6:20, my 44 mile commute I could make in 50-55 minutes.
coming home? Leaving work at 3:45, and it could be an hour. more often 1:15-1:30. Sometimes 2 hours. Once 2.5. That day, my left calf was a triffle sore (for about a week).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
jmonroe - Yeah, AC used to be a great place to go. I live a half hour from it and heave not been in years.
Back in the day there was a fabulous Italian restaurant on Atlantic Avenue called Luigi's. In the 80s PBS did a thing on the effects of casinos on AC. They interviewed Luigi who went into Resorts the first day it opened and saw the strategy of giving you no reason to leave the building. He put his restaurant up for sale the next day and got out while the getting was still good. I can still taste the veal parm....
I could be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure that's the Italian restaurant that we were always sure to go to. It was very good.
The kids really liked that place early on. Then we started to go to Ocean City MD. Things change but we still have the memories of the good times.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Do you mean the one michaell mentioned or the one with the "shag man?"
If it's the latter, I was a bit surprised to hear him endorsing them as well.
Yes, much better. When I used it, it was a solid line of backup from the Blue Route all the way to 202. Getting off at 202 south was so bad (due to 422 being off that ramp too) I would actually get off at 202 N, hit the u-turn and be 5-10 minutes to the good everyday.
I used to try and be out the door by 6 otherwise I had to deal with the mess at City Line avenue, as well as further up.
The absolute worst was Friday afternoons in the summer or whenever there were events at the stadiums, like you mention 2 hours to go 40 miles was not uncommon for me.
I am a bit spoiled by my commute now, however it can still take me 45 mins to go 12 miles on the way home. I can't wait until 295 is all done.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Funny story on that road. It was around Christmas time and my GF wanted to go to the outlet stores in Lancaster, PA on a Saturday afternoon. Well traffic was thick but moving. Something happened ahead and caused traffic to come to a stop from about 50. I stopped in plenty of time, the person behind me almost hits the Genny and then the fun began. A small white car obviously couldn't stop, swerves into the right lane and nearly side swipes my car. She was flipping out since it was on her side. Naturally, this was all my fault. :confuse:
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Personally, I can't see getting panties all bunched up over any car deal. If I don't like it, for any reason, I'll move on.
Same goes for dealerships I try to avoid like the plague. There are some that just seem to want to use all of the tricks....ADM, "mop & glo", etching options, etc. Typically, they employ a sales person who quickly gives way to the closer. And, it's clear from the "get go" they're going to want to grind to the very last nickel.
I have no use for those places. They can never seem to understand why I won't engage them at the negotiation table. Usually my reply goes something like this...
"By the time we negotiate away the ADM, get down to the nitty gritty, at which time I may, or may not have a deal with you because I don't want to listen to your bump, I could be down the road in a new car from somewhere else".
Then again, that's just me.
I am with you GG, I wouldn't spend any more time than I need to in these dealerships. However, I think there is a large segment of the population who just don't know better.....and these techniques work on them.
All dealerships have to carve out their market. Some do it on low price, some on fair price and service, some with a seemingly low price to bring you in the door....and then try to con you into extras. That might actually be the largest segment in the market, who knows.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That would be the one. Shomp, as far as I know, has always had an excellent reputation.
Anyone have thoughts on manual vs. automatic in this discussion. I bring this up because my 94 Civic five-speed was 13 years old and had somewhere between 125K and 130K on the clock. It was still on the original pads and rotors. About six months before I sold it the mechanic stated that the front pads still had more than 50% of material left and the rear even more.
I did have a tendency to downshift quite a bit (a habit I've since kicked). I know the experts say you shouldn't use the transmission to slow the car because the brakes are much, much cheaper to replace. Funny thing is the clutch still worked beautifully and I never heard any errant sounds from below.
Conversely, I had to have the rotors turned at about 58K on my MR2 (also a five-speed) because of annoying pulsation. However, approximately 56K of those miles were put on by the first owner so maybe he rode the brakes. He supposedly used the car as a commuter vehicle between Wichita and Kansas City so one wouldn't think there would be that much stop and start. As we all know though, salespeople (and buyers) don't always tell the whole truth.
Gogiboy
I think you are correct. My 1999 Wrangler needed front pads at 49K(right after I bought it). When I recently rotated the tires at 107K the pads checked out at a bit over 50% worn...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Some of the chains advertise "lifetime" pads. Of course, when you return they charge you labor and find a bunch of other things to sell you.
A "well known" muffler chain seems to be the best at doing this!
Some of these "lifetime" pads are made out of such hard material that they will squeak and require firmer pedel pressure.
Uh-oh ... that's where I had the brakes on my L300 done.
Oh, wait. It got traded in last month for the MINI. Shew - dodged that bullet.
The ION has almost 37K on the original pads and rotors, and the VUE is at about the same mileage, also with the original brakes.