It's not the salesperson who fights for the last 50.00. It's the management of the store. Sometimes, a customer just hits rock bottom. There isn't any more.
OK, but the salesperson is the face of the store and when people say they dislike doing business with a store it is because of the salesperson they were talking to. I know, some stores have a bad reputation because of how they operate but people always remember the salesperson good or bad. I’m sure you didn’t work at the type of store that the guys here would shun but I’m also sure there were would be buyers that didn’t like what they heard from you and they left. I’m inclined to believe that most of those would be buyers are the ones that you didn’t want anyhow.
And yes, there is a point when there is nothing else to give. Like the grinders that go into F&I and want the extended service, splash guards and 10 free oil changes “thrown in”.
I’m glad I’ve never had to put up with stuff like that.
Just curious, have you ever let a buyer walk and thought to yourself, "yeah, if I were him I wouldn't have paid that price".
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Don't most people want to look around some before deciding?
There is nothing wrong with the buyer looking around then deciding what they want. There is also nothing wrong with the salesperson pointing out a few things to a confused buyer but that is where it should end.
The point I was trying to make is that the salesperson shouldn't be the one to decide what is best for the buyer but if the buyer turns to the salesperson and says, "what do you think I should do/buy"? Something bad is about to happen.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The phrase "a few lousy bucks" has always interested me. Just how much money is that in dollars? To me, the magic number is $500, though I don't know exactly why. When I buy a car, I do grind a bit. Unlike jmonroe, I feel that the longer that I stay at the negotiation table, the less likely I am to get bumped. If we reach an agreement that separates us by $500, I'll cave in and purchase. If it goes above that figure, then I walk. Like GG, I try to do my homework before I go to the dealer. I research both my car and the new car. I have figures in mind for both. I expect the dealer to make a profit, and I expect a good deal for myself. Knowing all of this (and I share my homework with the salesman), $500 is a point where I think that both of us can be happy. The salesman can cave in at that point or I can do the same. It just seems a fair difference to me. If the dealer can prove that my figures are totally wrong, I'll listen. I may not buy, but I will listen out of respect.
with some of these megastores now, they have a huge supply of cars, and are trying to move them as fast as possible even at slim margins. So it isn't like sell to the grinder or wait for a better offer.. They got plenty of units to sell to them both!
probably different for small stores, or rare cars (like if LRguy only gets 1-2 of a special model).In that case, with a finite supply, you really can run out of units, so better off waiting for a better offer.
"What it's worth" is a shifting concept, as you no doubt have experienced many times. How long the car has been on the lot, maybe, or how close you are to a bonus, what kind of supply you have in inventory, how many people have expressed interest in it, how many other Honda dealers within, say, a 25 mile radius have the same thing, etc., etc.
A buyer sitting right in front of you with checkbook at the ready has to be worth something, even if the offer is "a few lousy bucks" less than you would have wanted.
You sound so bitter about losing customers because of PRICE. Seems to really bug you. I'm sure you're glad in a way that it's all over now, but it's interesting that even now after you've retired, that seems to be the one issue that burns you.
What percentage of customers did you have who just paid MSRP, no question, versus those who went for, say 5% off, to maybe those lucky few who got a new car at 10% off list? Or some other figure?
The point I was trying to make is that the salesperson shouldn't be the one to decide what is best for the buyer but if the buyer turns to the salesperson and says, "what do you think I should do/buy"? Something bad is about to happen.
You're so right you made me smile here. Still, I have to admit that was pretty much me when I walked in to the first Volvo store, said "I'm looking for a dog-friendly car that still gets decent mileage. What can you show me?"
You'll understand about Isell after a time. It took me a bit to get used to his way of thinking. He's not really bitter at all. He does, however, have intense feelings and opinions about grinders, picky selection of cars, car colors (He could care less), people who don't do research, integrity, customer ignorance, salesmen who give the business a bad name, etc.
He's actually a big Teddy Bear. I figured out ages ago that since he had so many customers and repeat customers, he had to give them good deals and treat them like kings and queens. For years, he has come here to give good advice and to vent. We'll never agree with him on some things, but we'll respect the hell out of him as a great salesman. Watch out. The first time that he made me laugh, I nearly passed out. He does have a unique sense of humor.
Jipster, I do agree with you and fezo. Once the dog is ours, he is ours. The agency won't even know us after a coupe of years. My wife was concerned today about following their training program closely. I reminded her that we have raised four dogs over the years. They were healthy, happy, and lovable. We'll do what we want to do. We jumped through the hoops because we wanted this puppy. Just like some other things in life, you play the game so that the end result can bring you happiness. Certainly, government has taught us that, if nothing else. :sick: Whether I have a fenced in yard, an SUV, or a fancy doggy bed is irrelevant. It's the love, caring, and attention that counts. If they ever try to take our dog, I know how to make a hen out of a rooster with one shot. (Thank you Dolly Parton.)
Richard, I've been around here off and on for about 12 years myself. Have seen a lot of the sales guys and a few sales women come and go. Isell has been steadfast in his comments, insights, and gripes. Always interesting, and certainly a good salesman to have been at one shop for so long.
I find it interesting that after all these years, it is still the customers who look for a better price that are really the only ones that push his buttons. The only ones to get him to engage the shift key.
(Keep trying to post a smiley-face after that one, but it's not working.)
Are you saying that it never happens the other way around where someone gets a great offer from another dealership only to walk out and buy from you for a few bucks less?
I might add that more often we will get a customer who felt mistreated at another store and comes to us. Price is less of an object than the buying experience. Does that mean they lay down? No, it just becomes less of an issue.
We had a large GM franchise in town that was closed down by GM. The dealership changed their model so they would sell used cars and just recently they got a Suzuki franchise.
Unfortunately, after a few months they decided to close. They said Suzuki's were actually selling better than they expected. It is the used car market that is causing the problem. Since fewer cars are being leased good used cars are hard to find. Some experts claim the used car business is very unique...and you really have to know what you are doing to make it work. I suspect that without the new car franchise there will be less cars getting recycled into used cars.
The dealer decided to close now and give their 40 employees some money to get them through for awhile, instead of dragging it on and going bankrupt, with no money left.
We had a large GM franchise in town that was closed down by GM. The dealership changed their model so they would sell used cars and just recently they got a Suzuki franchise.
It is the used car market that is causing the problem. Since fewer cars are being leased good used cars are hard to find. Some experts claim the used car business is very unique...and you really have to know what you are doing to make it work.
It’s kind of surprising to me that a dealership that’s been around for a while wouldn’t know how to make the used car business work yet there are ‘used car only lots’ that can do it. Maybe these owners don’t want to sell used cars that they don’t have confidence in.
The dealer decided to close now and give their 40 employees some money to get them through for awhile, instead of dragging it on and going bankrupt, with no money left.
Now that is pretty admirable. See above, it sounds like this place has scruples.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
yet there are ‘used car only lots’ that can do it.
I think new car dealers have access to better used cars, and the public trusts their cars more. Without a ready supply of used cars coming in as trade ins or leases, the dealership has to rely more on the auctions. I think you really have to be knowledgeable to pick up cars at the auction...it is a very specialized skill. I know a guy that did it, and he had to know what he was doing....and it shows up quickly if you make a few mistakes.
I agree, the dealer was very honest, I bought one car from them in 1992, and I thought I was going to lose my job just before delivery, and they said they would cancel the deal if that happened. They were kind to their staff to close it down before all the money went.
I would never want to be a car salesman but like it’s been said before, don’t you get customers that have shopped at other stores?
First of all, who cares what comes down the road in the future? If I invest quality time and provide useful information I feel I deserve an opportunity. The guy who comes into the store just wanting best price will not get as good a deal as someone I have spent time and energy with. That is because I am a sales person, not an order taker. The guy I successfully spend time with in many cases will become a repeat customer and invariably will provide a great CSI and referrals. The guy who comes in to beat another dealers price by a few bucks has no loyalty and will roll the bus on CSI.
I thought this was a pretty good answer by Irguy that you and jmonroe might want to re-read. It's not about things evening out. It's about being respectful to someone who has given you their time.
That's why 9 out of 10 salesmen prefer the "Jipst Method" of new car buying. It gives the salesman an opportunity to make a sale "now", without a bunch of wasted time price shopping. :shades:
driver....I think generally speaking the used car market is down, wouldn't you say? Fewer people who can get financed or into a lease contract (because their financials are being scrutinized more). Therefore, fewer trades. People are being forced to drive their cars longer because no one will write paper on them.
If I were a betting man, those people who used to get loans when they were totally upside down probably returned most of the gross on new car sales, too. They just want out of their current ride, into a new ride, regardless of the financial hit. You pros will correct me if I'm wrong.
Personally, I don't care one wit what the sales person makes, the sales manager makes. None of my business. Although, most dealerships I've ever been to wants to know what I make (even though I may not be financing), if I own or rent my abode, etc. So, while it doesn't matter to me what a sales person/manager makes, they sure do want to know my personal data as a way to qualify me.
LR....as a side note, TopGear had a show a few weeks ago where the hosts went to South America and bought used 4X4s to traverse all the way down to Chile. Very interesting show. IIRC, they had an old Range Rover, an old Suzuki "mini" 4X4, and an old Toyota Land Cruiser they bought for the trip. I thought it odd that they didn't buy a Jeep for the trip. But, after all the narrow roads, sand dunes, river fording, they declared the Land Rover as the most dependable, undependable vehicle on the planet.
He's not really bitter at all. He does, however, have intense feelings and opinions about grinders, picky selection of cars, car colors (He could care less), people who don't do research, integrity, customer ignorance, salesmen who give the business a bad name, etc.
Don't forget how he feels about manual transmissions!...
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I thought this was a pretty good answer by Irguy that you and jmonroe might want to re-read. It's not about things evening out. It's about being respectful to someone who has given you their time.
I don’t have to re-read what ‘lrguy’ said and I never said that a buyer shouldn’t be respectful. I pretty much understood what the Captain said but then he lost me when he said, “who cares what comes down the road in the future”? If you want more repeat business then you should care about what comes down the road in the future. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I actually knew that but with the number of posts you've had on the subject of them not selling I couldn't resist.
My oldest daughter is now driving the 00 Accord and has reached a point where she now says that she likes it better than the Camry she drowned and she likes the manual better than the automatic. That's my girl!
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
But, after all the narrow roads, sand dunes, river fording, they declared the Land Rover as the most dependable, undependable vehicle on the planet.
That sounds like when they aren’t on the lift, you can count on them. Although their reliability has improved the last few years. How couldn’t it. When you’re on the bottom there is only one way to go. Not sure that Hummer did that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
You know, I was thinking about the "value of a good salesperson" issue, and I think there's a valid point about respecting a salesperson who spends time and offers product knowledge. However, if you think about it, even guys in the biz admit there's a high employee turnover rate. This means that most of us encounter the opposite more frequently.
The biggest turnoff to me is the salesperson who is trying to close the deal as soon as he says hello. He's not interested in what I want - he's interested in getting me to buy something, anything.
On my last purchase, after I test drove the vehicle that I bought, the salesperson actually asked if I'd like to look at or drive any of their other vehicles. While I was test driving, she double-checked the inventory to see if they had any other G35s available (they did, but another couple was checking out the other one). If they hadn't had the vehicle I wanted, I would've given her a chance to find it, because sadly she was the ONLY salesperson who showed any interest in me buying what I wanted rather than what the salesperson wanted to sell me.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I have to say that I workied for a very unusual store. It's family owned and customers and employees are treated with respect.
Most places aren't like that. Some markets are much worse than others such as So. California where I am from. It can be a VERY dirty business.
Even in our store, turnover is constant but not like other places. Out of probably 24 salespeople, I would say that 6 have been there over ten years and another six over 5 years..This is unheard of in this business. When I left, I had the same owner, same General Manager, same New Car Manager and same Used Car Manager that were in those positions when I was hired almost 14 years ago.
A few years ago, they had me interview a potential salesperson who worked at a nearby Ford store. He told me that out of 25 salespeople, he was second in seniority. He had been there 8 months.
In other stores, there are constant threats and firings.
Those stores don't worry about future business and they don't believe in "be-backs"
" Don't count the be-backs, you count the GREENBACKS"
They figure if you leave you're not coming back and they are usually correct. Our store was a huge be-back store because we treated them right.
Kirstie, that salesperson was probably pushing you toward a car he had in stock because most stores don't do dealer trades. They aren't on good terms with other stores so they are forced to sell what they have.
Had I not walked into the store I did, I would have left quickly. I got lucky!
"So, that leaves you and me. Nobody else will buy one except the BMW guys."
Isell--
Put me in that camp as well. My last three cars (including two that I currently own) have been manuals. My wife is okay with man. trans as well, but her last two cars have been automatics.
I'll admit to enjoying shifting--although I might feel differently if I lived in an area with heavy stop-and-go traffic or constant traffic lights. Also, I'm cheap or so I've been told. Maybe it's because my main mode of transportation has somewhere between 18 and 24 gears so that a 5-speed seems relatively effortless.
Have any of you seen the videos of the hail storm from last week in OKC? I've endured some hail here--even had $2500 worth of hail damage a year ago in February, but that stuff was puny compared to the monster chunks that damaged hundreds of homes and cars in the metro area. The hail followed a three-day stretch where OK had 34 confirmed tornadoes.
I guess that's the point about turnover - when you see us all posting about the lack of value in our experiences with the salesperson, it's probably because we have encountered far more of the short-timers who have little experience or expertise, won't be there long, and aren't interested in building a customer base. Truly, they don't add value, and actually often make the process more painful.
It probably won't surprise you to find that the store at which I had a positive experience was our friend Brentwood's old store (he had long departed, but had recommended it).
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
kirstie....you just hit a "hot button" of mine. Listen to what I'm saying (as a customer). Listen to what I want. Do those two things, and you'll engage me.
If not....if you want to steer me towards something without knowing what I want, our conversation will be short.
This was a lot of years ago. But, I was at a dealership (can't even remember the brand) and the sales person either wasn't listening, or understanding me, but it was clear that what he steered me towards, wasn't remotely what I wanted.
Now, I'll assume that's because he didn't have what I wanted. If that's the case, tell me you don't have it. Make an alternate suggestion (but at least get close to what I've requested). If you can't do that, give me your business card and tell me you'll give me a jingle when you get what I want in stock, or be willing to trade with another dealer.
One thing's drop dead, absolutely for certain. If you don't listen to what I want, don't have what I'm seeking, aren't willing to get it, or inform me when you will get it, there's a 100% chance you aren't going to make the sale.
I don’t have to re-read what ‘lrguy’ said and I never said that a buyer shouldn't’t be respectful. I pretty much understood what the Captain said but then he lost me when he said, “who cares what comes down the road in the future”? If you want more repeat business then you should care about what comes down the road in the future.
I didn't say that you said a buyer shouldn't be respectful. What I said was, what I thought Irguy was saying, was that to cross shop his offer and buy from another dealership without giving him a shot at making the deal, after he spent his time presenting the car, was disrespectful. Seems to me you would let the first salesguy, that did all the work, have the opportunity to beat your best price, since that is your ultimate goal.
The "Who cares what comes down the road in the future?" means he can't worry about if someone coming into his store is cross shopping or not. He can't tell a potential buyer to get lost because another salesmen did all the work in showing the vehicle, even though he doesn't care for such practices. His job is to make the sale. That it "all evens out" doesn't enter into the equation. The problem is the customers lack of respect to him by not allowing him a chance, after he had done all the work, to make the sale. An experienced salesmen that builds value into a expensive product, then loses the sale to some greenpea, who's socks doesn't match his slacks, must be tough to take. :sick:
edited: okay, will whoever at Emunds that bumped into the emotorcon button please turn the thing back on. At the rates I'm paying I should be getting better service. :mad: (mad emotorcon)
Not a fan of Walmart. Was in one ONCE and that was enough.
I try not to go in Walmarts... always end up feeling like I need to take a flea bath afterwards. Don't know if this is common with all Walmarts, but the local one near me (fairly new) just has concrete as the flooring... no tiles. Makes the store seem like it's just a big warehouse.
Not much progress in the car buying business lately. The raging fever from a couple weeks ago has broken. I did see a nice looking Mazda 5 at the grocery store the other day in the color my wife likes, almost asked the guy how he liked it, but looked as if he were in a hurry.
I believe my Mazda salesman was either fired or quit. I haven't heard back from him. A few days ago I got a card in the mail from the sales manager, saying he saw that my name was in their records and to come in for a test drive or call him if I had any questions. We shall see. :surprise:
Did you "grind" for the best package? Did you shop different packages like people shop different cars? Did you fall victim to any "Mop & Glow" at the check-out counter as in the F&I office? Did you "test drive" certain phones? Will you be doing a survey (CSI) on the deal? Did you meet the owner of the store (dealership)? Did you have a trade-in phone? Do you now have "buyer's remorse"? Did you get an extended warranty? How did you like the options---texting, incoming calls, cameras, internet access, etc.? Last, but not least, WHAT COLOR PHONE DID YOU GET? :P
I would love to watch you as a customer. Are you as good on the other side of the counter?
"Not much progress in the car buying business lately."
Same here. My wife has been so busy with our latest house project and getting ready for the new puppy that she has lost interest. She did look at a Flex and said no way. She has agreed to try out an Aspen when our salesman gets one in soon. She has also mentioned buying a new Explorer since she is so used to our old one. Also, she is still considering the Jeep Grand Cherokee that we tried out a month ago. I'm just letting her take the lead with an occasional reminder that we need to keep looking. I tried a new ploy suggesting that she might like a new car for the new puppy. She just rolled her eyes and told me to "go play Edmunds". That girl knows me too well.
I would love to have seen the look on the sales lady's face when she found out that you were employed by Edmunds. :P I wonder if it put her on the defensive. I bet the word spread like wild fire around the dealership. I'm surprised that the owner didn't rush out with flowers, candy, and a 20% discount coupon. Did they think that you were a grinder or a baby seal? :shades:
Actually, I like manual transmissions. So, that leaves you and me. Nobody else will buy one except the BMW guys.
Even the bmw salesman said shifting manually is a dying art. Parents don't drive manuals and so their children don't learn how to drive them.
My mother had Hillman's (I don't know if they had those in the US...they were English and the shifting pattern was opposite to everything else) and Volkwagons.
My stepdad insisted that I learn how to drive a manual as well. He taught me on his old Ford Maverick.
Bless his heart, because you can imagine I ground the gears a few times during the learning process.
It paid off though. I bought nothing but manuals for 20 years, from age 22 to 42. After that I went to a city with horrendous traffic, and bought an automatic for the first time ever. Have bought automatics ever since, but now they come with "manumatics," so I do shifting once in a while that way. Still like the manuals in theory but must admit that with city traffic, an automatic is much, much easier.
I'm surprised that the owner didn't rush out with flowers, candy, and a 20% discount coupon.
Oh, that's funny. I helped my son buy a car last year and, in idle chat with the salesperson, I mentioned that I work on the edmunds' site. I gave her my business card and she indicated that she "never heard of them." Yeah, right!
The staff became VERY friendly and offered a quite substantial discount. So who needs flowers and candy?
tidester, host SUVs and Smart Shopper
P.S. IT is working on restoring the missing emotorcons.
First of all, who cares what comes down the road in the future?
I didn't expect you to get the difference about something maybe coming in the future to grind a nothing deal (your concept of things eventually being even) and making my future by creating the best buying experience ever. I really do not care about maybe a grinder coming in at all.
Just flew back east today (Indy) to spend a week with our oldest and her husband and 2 of the cutest and fun grand kids in the world. It is funny, but the last time we were here I spent several hours texting and talking to a professional athlete who gave me a deposit before I left for home. Tonight I get a call from a refferal and she said she will give me a deposit on an incoming car tomorrow. I should spend more time on vacation!
I really do not care about maybe a grinder coming in at all.
I don't think good salespeople are going to worry about grinders. They know a certain percentage of possible customers are going to be grinders and they will lose most of them. But, it is partly a numbers game. Talk to all the people, give them the best help and guidance you can, try to find out what the customer wants, hope 20% or some number end up buying. And that percentage goes up as you get more repeat and referral customers.
I don't think a good sales person will get too worked up about grinders. Salespeople don't like them, but you have to be at top form when meeting everyone...I am sure a lot of times the guy you thought couldn't afford to buy a new car buys the top model with no hassle.
Good sales is persistance, never give up, lots of listening, fulfilling the customers wants and needs at a fair price...you can't do more than that. Let the chips fall where they may....treat everyone with respect and you might even see them come wandering back in.
I haven't sold cars, but sales is basically sales, and good salespeople won't let grinders get them down...it's just part of the game.
they probably had a big mortgage on the property and just couldn't make it work without selling new vehicles
It was a fancy new showroom that was just redone a few years ago. Their business plan was to make it on just selling used cars...and the Suzuki line was just added a few months ago.
This was a thriving dealership up until about 10 years ago. But in the last 5 years they were making money on a good reputation, but GM sales were fading. Just selling used cars just doesn't bring in the same volume of business. Their business plan was a good try and seemed logical, but it just didn't work in real life.
Well said driver. I have been saying from the get go that sales is sales. I based that on the 20 some years I spent in the corporate world doing primarily technical sales and my 16 I have loved in the car business.
Comments
OK, but the salesperson is the face of the store and when people say they dislike doing business with a store it is because of the salesperson they were talking to. I know, some stores have a bad reputation because of how they operate but people always remember the salesperson good or bad. I’m sure you didn’t work at the type of store that the guys here would shun but I’m also sure there were would be buyers that didn’t like what they heard from you and they left. I’m inclined to believe that most of those would be buyers are the ones that you didn’t want anyhow.
And yes, there is a point when there is nothing else to give. Like the grinders that go into F&I and want the extended service, splash guards and 10 free oil changes “thrown in”.
I’m glad I’ve never had to put up with stuff like that.
Just curious, have you ever let a buyer walk and thought to yourself, "yeah, if I were him I wouldn't have paid that price".
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
There is nothing wrong with the buyer looking around then deciding what they want. There is also nothing wrong with the salesperson pointing out a few things to a confused buyer but that is where it should end.
The point I was trying to make is that the salesperson shouldn't be the one to decide what is best for the buyer but if the buyer turns to the salesperson and says, "what do you think I should do/buy"? Something bad is about to happen.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Richard
If you had a product to sell you would probably expect to get what it's worth I would think.
with some of these megastores now, they have a huge supply of cars, and are trying to move them as fast as possible even at slim margins. So it isn't like sell to the grinder or wait for a better offer.. They got plenty of units to sell to them both!
probably different for small stores, or rare cars (like if LRguy only gets 1-2 of a special model).In that case, with a finite supply, you really can run out of units, so better off waiting for a better offer.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
A buyer sitting right in front of you with checkbook at the ready has to be worth something, even if the offer is "a few lousy bucks" less than you would have wanted.
You sound so bitter about losing customers because of PRICE. Seems to really bug you. I'm sure you're glad in a way that it's all over now, but it's interesting that even now after you've retired, that seems to be the one issue that burns you.
What percentage of customers did you have who just paid MSRP, no question, versus those who went for, say 5% off, to maybe those lucky few who got a new car at 10% off list? Or some other figure?
You're so right you made me smile here. Still, I have to admit that was pretty much me when I walked in to the first Volvo store, said "I'm looking for a dog-friendly car that still gets decent mileage. What can you show me?"
He's actually a big Teddy Bear. I figured out ages ago that since he had so many customers and repeat customers, he had to give them good deals and treat them like kings and queens. For years, he has come here to give good advice and to vent. We'll never agree with him on some things, but we'll respect the hell out of him as a great salesman. Watch out. The first time that he made me laugh, I nearly passed out. He does have a unique sense of humor.
Richard
Richard
I find it interesting that after all these years, it is still the customers who look for a better price that are really the only ones that push his buttons. The only ones to get him to engage the shift key.
(Keep trying to post a smiley-face after that one, but it's not working.)
I might add that more often we will get a customer who felt mistreated at another store and comes to us. Price is less of an object than the buying experience. Does that mean they lay down? No, it just becomes less of an issue.
So, in effect, it would seem to balance out - more or less?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Or just give them some rat poison instead of "skinny and sweet" in their coffee... worked for the girls in the movie
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Is there an echo in here?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Unfortunately, after a few months they decided to close. They said Suzuki's were actually selling better than they expected. It is the used car market that is causing the problem. Since fewer cars are being leased good used cars are hard to find. Some experts claim the used car business is very unique...and you really have to know what you are doing to make it work. I suspect that without the new car franchise there will be less cars getting recycled into used cars.
The dealer decided to close now and give their 40 employees some money to get them through for awhile, instead of dragging it on and going bankrupt, with no money left.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
It is the used car market that is causing the problem. Since fewer cars are being leased good used cars are hard to find. Some experts claim the used car business is very unique...and you really have to know what you are doing to make it work.
It’s kind of surprising to me that a dealership that’s been around for a while wouldn’t know how to make the used car business work yet there are ‘used car only lots’ that can do it. Maybe these owners don’t want to sell used cars that they don’t have confidence in.
The dealer decided to close now and give their 40 employees some money to get them through for awhile, instead of dragging it on and going bankrupt, with no money left.
Now that is pretty admirable. See above, it sounds like this place has scruples.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I think new car dealers have access to better used cars, and the public trusts their cars more. Without a ready supply of used cars coming in as trade ins or leases, the dealership has to rely more on the auctions. I think you really have to be knowledgeable to pick up cars at the auction...it is a very specialized skill. I know a guy that did it, and he had to know what he was doing....and it shows up quickly if you make a few mistakes.
I agree, the dealer was very honest, I bought one car from them in 1992, and I thought I was going to lose my job just before delivery, and they said they would cancel the deal if that happened. They were kind to their staff to close it down before all the money went.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
First of all, who cares what comes down the road in the future? If I invest quality time and provide useful information I feel I deserve an opportunity. The guy who comes into the store just wanting best price will not get as good a deal as someone I have spent time and energy with. That is because I am a sales person, not an order taker. The guy I successfully spend time with in many cases will become a repeat customer and invariably will provide a great CSI and referrals. The guy who comes in to beat another dealers price by a few bucks has no loyalty and will roll the bus on CSI.
I thought this was a pretty good answer by Irguy that you and jmonroe might want to re-read. It's not about things evening out. It's about being respectful to someone who has given you their time.
That's why 9 out of 10 salesmen prefer the "Jipst Method" of new car buying. It gives the salesman an opportunity to make a sale "now", without a bunch of wasted time price shopping. :shades:
If I were a betting man, those people who used to get loans when they were totally upside down probably returned most of the gross on new car sales, too. They just want out of their current ride, into a new ride, regardless of the financial hit. You pros will correct me if I'm wrong.
Personally, I don't care one wit what the sales person makes, the sales manager makes. None of my business. Although, most dealerships I've ever been to wants to know what I make (even though I may not be financing), if I own or rent my abode, etc. So, while it doesn't matter to me what a sales person/manager makes, they sure do want to know my personal data as a way to qualify me.
LR....as a side note, TopGear had a show a few weeks ago where the hosts went to South America and bought used 4X4s to traverse all the way down to Chile. Very interesting show. IIRC, they had an old Range Rover, an old Suzuki "mini" 4X4, and an old Toyota Land Cruiser they bought for the trip. I thought it odd that they didn't buy a Jeep for the trip. But, after all the narrow roads, sand dunes, river fording, they declared the Land Rover as the most dependable, undependable vehicle on the planet.
Don't forget how he feels about manual transmissions!...
I do have to say that this business has taught me a few things.
1. The value of a handshake means nothing to some people
2. Lying is a natural for some people.
3. There are still a lot of good people out there
It's when people cross the line, and there is a line that get's me riled up.
And I never thought I would sterotype races of people but I'm afraid that will always stick with me too.
So, that leaves you and me. Nobody else will buy one except the BMW guys.
I don’t have to re-read what ‘lrguy’ said and I never said that a buyer shouldn’t be respectful. I pretty much understood what the Captain said but then he lost me when he said, “who cares what comes down the road in the future”? If you want more repeat business then you should care about what comes down the road in the future. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I actually knew that but with the number of posts you've had on the subject of them not selling I couldn't resist.
My oldest daughter is now driving the 00 Accord and has reached a point where she now says that she likes it better than the Camry she drowned and she likes the manual better than the automatic. That's my girl!
That sounds like when they aren’t on the lift, you can count on them. Although their reliability has improved the last few years. How couldn’t it. When you’re on the bottom there is only one way to go. Not sure that Hummer did that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The biggest turnoff to me is the salesperson who is trying to close the deal as soon as he says hello. He's not interested in what I want - he's interested in getting me to buy something, anything.
On my last purchase, after I test drove the vehicle that I bought, the salesperson actually asked if I'd like to look at or drive any of their other vehicles. While I was test driving, she double-checked the inventory to see if they had any other G35s available (they did, but another couple was checking out the other one). If they hadn't had the vehicle I wanted, I would've given her a chance to find it, because sadly she was the ONLY salesperson who showed any interest in me buying what I wanted rather than what the salesperson wanted to sell me.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Most places aren't like that. Some markets are much worse than others such as So. California where I am from. It can be a VERY dirty business.
Even in our store, turnover is constant but not like other places. Out of probably 24 salespeople, I would say that 6 have been there over ten years and another six over 5 years..This is unheard of in this business. When I left, I had the same owner, same General Manager, same New Car Manager and same Used Car Manager that were in those positions when I was hired almost 14 years ago.
A few years ago, they had me interview a potential salesperson who worked at a nearby Ford store. He told me that out of 25 salespeople, he was second in seniority. He had been there 8 months.
In other stores, there are constant threats and firings.
Those stores don't worry about future business and they don't believe in "be-backs"
" Don't count the be-backs, you count the GREENBACKS"
They figure if you leave you're not coming back and they are usually correct. Our store was a huge be-back store because we treated them right.
Kirstie, that salesperson was probably pushing you toward a car he had in stock because most stores don't do dealer trades. They aren't on good terms with other stores so they are forced to sell what they have.
Had I not walked into the store I did, I would have left quickly. I got lucky!
Isell--
Put me in that camp as well. My last three cars (including two that I currently own) have been manuals. My wife is okay with man. trans as well, but her last two cars have been automatics.
I'll admit to enjoying shifting--although I might feel differently if I lived in an area with heavy stop-and-go traffic or constant traffic lights. Also, I'm cheap or so I've been told. Maybe it's because my main mode of transportation has somewhere between 18 and 24 gears so that a 5-speed seems relatively effortless.
Have any of you seen the videos of the hail storm from last week in OKC? I've endured some hail here--even had $2500 worth of hail damage a year ago in February, but that stuff was puny compared to the monster chunks that damaged hundreds of homes and cars in the metro area. The hail followed a three-day stretch where OK had 34 confirmed tornadoes.
Gogiboy
It probably won't surprise you to find that the store at which I had a positive experience was our friend Brentwood's old store (he had long departed, but had recommended it).
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
If not....if you want to steer me towards something without knowing what I want, our conversation will be short.
This was a lot of years ago. But, I was at a dealership (can't even remember the brand) and the sales person either wasn't listening, or understanding me, but it was clear that what he steered me towards, wasn't remotely what I wanted.
Now, I'll assume that's because he didn't have what I wanted. If that's the case, tell me you don't have it. Make an alternate suggestion (but at least get close to what I've requested). If you can't do that, give me your business card and tell me you'll give me a jingle when you get what I want in stock, or be willing to trade with another dealer.
One thing's drop dead, absolutely for certain. If you don't listen to what I want, don't have what I'm seeking, aren't willing to get it, or inform me when you will get it, there's a 100% chance you aren't going to make the sale.
I didn't say that you said a buyer shouldn't be respectful. What I said was, what I thought Irguy was saying, was that to cross shop his offer and buy from another dealership without giving him a shot at making the deal, after he spent his time presenting the car, was disrespectful. Seems to me you would let the first salesguy, that did all the work, have the opportunity to beat your best price, since that is your ultimate goal.
The "Who cares what comes down the road in the future?" means he can't worry about if someone coming into his store is cross shopping or not. He can't tell a potential buyer to get lost because another salesmen did all the work in showing the vehicle, even though he doesn't care for such practices. His job is to make the sale. That it "all evens out" doesn't enter into the equation. The problem is the customers lack of respect to him by not allowing him a chance, after he had done all the work, to make the sale. An experienced salesmen that builds value into a expensive product, then loses the sale to some greenpea, who's socks doesn't match his slacks, must be tough to take. :sick:
edited: okay, will whoever at Emunds that bumped into the emotorcon button please turn the thing back on. At the rates I'm paying I should be getting better service. :mad: (mad emotorcon)
Just recently, I bought a new cell phone to replace my company supplied one.
With ONE exception the "salespeople" I ran into lacked any skills at selling or even showing any energy. Guess who I bought my phone from?
It's pretty bad when they hand me a business card with one name crossed out and their name hand written.
Well, I'm guessing it wasn't from a Walmart or Target... probably from an independent A.T&T store.
I ended up buying it from the T-Mobile store here in town.
I try not to go in Walmarts... always end up feeling like I need to take a flea bath afterwards. Don't know if this is common with all Walmarts, but the local one near me (fairly new) just has concrete as the flooring... no tiles. Makes the store seem like it's just a big warehouse.
Not much progress in the car buying business lately. The raging fever from a couple weeks ago has broken. I did see a nice looking Mazda 5 at the grocery store the other day in the color my wife likes, almost asked the guy how he liked it, but looked as if he were in a hurry.
I believe my Mazda salesman was either fired or quit. I haven't heard back from him. A few days ago I got a card in the mail from the sales manager, saying he saw that my name was in their records and to come in for a test drive or call him if I had any questions. We shall see. :surprise:
I would love to watch you as a customer. Are you as good on the other side of the counter?
Richard
Same here. My wife has been so busy with our latest house project and getting ready for the new puppy that she has lost interest. She did look at a Flex and said no way. She has agreed to try out an Aspen when our salesman gets one in soon. She has also mentioned buying a new Explorer since she is so used to our old one. Also, she is still considering the Jeep Grand Cherokee that we tried out a month ago. I'm just letting her take the lead with an occasional reminder that we need to keep looking. I tried a new ploy suggesting that she might like a new car for the new puppy. She just rolled her eyes and told me to "go play Edmunds". That girl knows me too well.
Richard
Tell Tom to get off of the emotorcons button!
Richard
So, that leaves you and me. Nobody else will buy one except the BMW guys.
Even the bmw salesman said shifting manually is a dying art. Parents don't drive manuals and so their children don't learn how to drive them.
My mother had Hillman's (I don't know if they had those in the US...they were English and the shifting pattern was opposite to everything else) and Volkwagons.
If I wanted to drive I had to learn on a manual.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Bless his heart, because you can imagine I ground the gears a few times during the learning process.
It paid off though. I bought nothing but manuals for 20 years, from age 22 to 42. After that I went to a city with horrendous traffic, and bought an automatic for the first time ever. Have bought automatics ever since, but now they come with "manumatics," so I do shifting once in a while that way. Still like the manuals in theory but must admit that with city traffic, an automatic is much, much easier.
Oh, that's funny. I helped my son buy a car last year and, in idle chat with the salesperson, I mentioned that I work on the edmunds' site. I gave her my business card and she indicated that she "never heard of them." Yeah, right!
The staff became VERY friendly and offered a quite substantial discount. So who needs flowers and candy?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
P.S. IT is working on restoring the missing emotorcons.
I didn't expect you to get the difference about something maybe coming in the future to grind a nothing deal (your concept of things eventually being even) and making my future by creating the best buying experience ever. I really do not care about maybe a grinder coming in at all.
I don't think good salespeople are going to worry about grinders. They know a certain percentage of possible customers are going to be grinders and they will lose most of them. But, it is partly a numbers game. Talk to all the people, give them the best help and guidance you can, try to find out what the customer wants, hope 20% or some number end up buying. And that percentage goes up as you get more repeat and referral customers.
I don't think a good sales person will get too worked up about grinders. Salespeople don't like them, but you have to be at top form when meeting everyone...I am sure a lot of times the guy you thought couldn't afford to buy a new car buys the top model with no hassle.
Good sales is persistance, never give up, lots of listening, fulfilling the customers wants and needs at a fair price...you can't do more than that. Let the chips fall where they may....treat everyone with respect and you might even see them come wandering back in.
I haven't sold cars, but sales is basically sales, and good salespeople won't let grinders get them down...it's just part of the game.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It was a fancy new showroom that was just redone a few years ago. Their business plan was to make it on just selling used cars...and the Suzuki line was just added a few months ago.
This was a thriving dealership up until about 10 years ago. But in the last 5 years they were making money on a good reputation, but GM sales were fading. Just selling used cars just doesn't bring in the same volume of business. Their business plan was a good try and seemed logical, but it just didn't work in real life.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Please tell IT (from the Munsters?) that we appreciate his work on the emotorcons. :P
Richard