Cousin IT was the short furry dude with a high pithed voice on The Adams Family. Was quite the "ladies man" according to Gomez. I think he had a thing with Thing. :sick:
Yes, they had Hillmans in the United States. My best friend's family had two of them plus a T-Bird. They had a Hillman sedan and my best friend got a Hillman convertible for his 16th birthday. The sedan was a two-tone gray; the convertible was black. You are correct about the gear shift being the opposite from American made cars. There is a story here.
Our freshman year in college, he drove his Hillman 300 miles to my university's homecoming weekend in October. When we were leaving the dance, he was as drunk as a skunk, so I had to drive the girls back to their apartment off campus. I had driven "straight gears" many times, but not like this one. It took me a good ten minutes to figure out how in the hell the gears worked. Because of this, the girls thought that I was also drunk. They decided to walk back to their apartment. They were not happy campers. To make matters worse, I drove by their apartment and blew the horn just about the time that they got there. Needless to say, I never had another date with the girl that I took to the dance.
My good friend drove his Hillman until he finished graduate school. He had enjoyed eight wonderful years with that car. He kept it in immaculate condition. He put it away until his daughter was 16. He had it reconditioned. and painted as a gift for her birthday. Though she didn't get hurt, she totaled it one week after she got it. My old buddy took it in stride, but he was so disappointed. We still tell old Hillman stories when we meet, which isn't often enough.
I have a very good friend who's more of a car fanatic than I am. Our motoring tastes are somewhat similar. He's got a soft spot for American Muscle.
In the past 5 or 6 years, he's had a 'vette, which was replaced by a Mustang Cobra KR. And, he has a Ford F 150 as a daily driver (vs when I had my Tahoe as a daily driver).
He got married late in life (as in about 3 years ago). That event more or less changed forever what he puts in his garage. His love of muscle cars just wouldn't do, given that his blushing bride can't/won't drive a muscle car.
The Cobra gave way to an Infiniti G35x. His wife fretted over colors, over options, for almost a year before they finally pulled the trigger.
I think most here would agree that an Infiniti G is quite a nice car. But, after driving it for several months, she decided it was too small. IIRC, she came into the marriage with a 7 year old Mitsubishi Lancer. So, from my perspective, the G certainly isn't any smaller. And, it's certainly a much nicer car. But, she's not my wife. And, it's not my money.
As such, and to make her happy, they traded a barely one year old G in for the new Taurus SHO. Again, quite a nice car. Well, now it seems the SHO is too big, and too heavy for her liking.
He was bemoaning to me he lost about $15K on the Cobra. He lost another $10K on the G. Probably looking at another $10K-$15K loss on the SHO....all in the course of the last 3 years.
As a side note, she really likes my Acura.
As I delicately put it to him last night...."you can always tell her 'no more cars'."
To which he responded, "easy for you to say, you aren't married to her".
Driver....you mentioned the weird shift pattern on the Hillman...right on! My mother's first car was a 4 year old 1951 Hillman convertible...black with red leather. I learned to drive on this baby in 1955...4 speed on the column...but the exact reverse from the norm. It also had cool turn signals that were actually little "flippers" that flipped up from the side panel and said to all that "I am going to turn now, please get out of my way."
No, I think Haldimand Motors (largest used car lot in North America) is still going strong. They know how to play the used car game. One of our employees bought a 2005 Ford (Taurus or 500?) and he loves the car, their warranty, and their service.
The one closing was Nethercott Chevrolet. The father sold the business to his son about 15 years ago. The father said he did well with it, but business goes down every year. The father was driving a Toyota now, he says he doesn't care what he drives, as long as it is cheap and dependable.
He was bemoaning to me he lost about $15K on the Cobra. He lost another $10K on the G. Probably looking at another $10K-$15K loss on the SHO....all in the course of the last 3 years.
Let me guess. Your friends wife is 20 years younger and a lot better looking than he is. I agree... gotta keep her happy.
I didn't mention that I work here until after we'd agreed on a deal - I would've had to force it into the conversation, and I just didn't feel comfortable with that. Hm... they probably thought I was a baby seal because I didn't negotiate on price at all. It was a used vehicle, and the price was slightly less than I'd anticipated. Time was a more important priority that day, so I said I'd take it right then at marked price if I could get out in an hour.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I feel for your friend. No matter what your savings look like those car losses will dent a wallet.
If Melinda did that to Bill even he would have to say "hold on a minute"
My wife came equipped with a Buick Skylark back in 1977. Nice car at the time. If I had met her when she owned a (ahem) Rambler American I don't think we would have gotten off the ground.
Do I judge someone by what they drive? Sure do. Shallow, yes. But it says a lot.
His wife arriving with a Misterbitchy Lancer (EVO would have been mentioned and taken it to a different level) should have been a big red flag. Caution.
Now if this little lady had arrived on scene with this...whole nuther story.
Next time I will go with you as your assistant. We will both get cars and I will do the grinding. You can sit and eat your candy and smell your flowers. We'll get big discounts as Edmunds Executives. You can be Vice President of Frontline Sales, and I'll be Director of Frontline Consumer Postings. Hell, who checks business cards these days?
She sounds like a real Gold Digger to me. Then again, who knows what is offered in fringe benefits to the husband? :P Some things are worth the money. :shades:
I didn't expect you to get the difference about something maybe coming in the future to grind a nothing deal (your concept of things eventually being even) and making my future by creating the best buying experience ever. I really do not care about maybe a grinder coming in at all.
Why did you interpret my response to mean that a “grinder” would be coming in?
My comment applied to people that would be walking through the door “in the future”. Some of those people have to be real customers. By default, that has to be the case. :confuse:
I keep hearing that a salesman can’t pre-qualify a customer. So, if you want more repeat business you have to give some time to walk-ins. Now, if you see you’re dealing with a “grinder” ,yeah, show him the door.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
We actually were discussing customers who go down the block to save a few bucks. You mentioned how they even out so why should it upset a salesman. Those are the people I could care less about because the offers are usually ridiculous. Now that you have changed the criteria I agree that walk ins who are not just interested in beating a price are important. Actually, the most important because I have the opportunity to start a dialogue, find needs, demonstrate and build value face to face.
Edit: If you actually do a deal with the guy who comes in just to beat an already low price (which is rarely the case) he will kill you on CSI, not be a repeat buyer and not send referrals. What is the point?
jipster....richard. You both are correct. She's not 20 years younger than him, but about 13 years younger. Since he waited so long to get married, I thought he would be a confirmed lifetime bachelor. But, she came along at the right place, in the right time for him.
The Mitsu was not an EVO.....just a plain jane Lancer (yellow one, at that).
I can only speculate on the intangibles of their union. But, frugality isn't one of them.
Any of the cars he's sold recently I would have jumped on (almost jumped on the G35x). That KR Cobra would have been sweet, too. Except, if I would be back in the market for American muscle, it would be of the convertible variety.
Hell, even that SHO would be something I'd seriously consider if I were in the market right now.
Should be interesting as their marriage matures (if it matures).
He's done things without any sort of interference for so long, this is new territory for him.
As I've discussed with him before, the two most powerful words in the world are "YES" and "NO". Maybe he should practice more of the latter, and less of the former.
The customer (grinder) owns the car. Now let's say for whatever reason, the customer gets a phone call or email a day or two later with a lower price. They can't come back to you or try to return the car - but they'll probably murder you on the CSI.
Has anybody here sold a car & then the customer tried to bring it back because they claimed to get a lower price?
I get it all the time. Someone will buy something from me & then return it a few days later saying they didn't need it. A lot of times it is because they found it cheaper somewhere else.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I've had customers buy cars from me only to have another store call them and tell them they paid way too much!
I once told a customer that our store would be willing to write a check for every car they had in their inventory for that price and that we would pick them up and send the customer 500.00.
>Time was a more important priority that day, so I said I'd take it right then at marked price if I could get out in an hour.
That sounds like a fair exchange--rather than negotiate for less money you took an added value from their side in the form of a quick transaction and delivery! Less time to get car was worth money.
"You and Jipster are correct. I had my "munsters" confused."
Richard,
As you and most of the forum posters know, Cousin Itt and the other other Addam's clan were the creation of Charles Addams, a long time New Yorker cartoon contributor.
One of my favorite Addam's cartoons had a car theme. Uncle Fester is driving a sizable convertible sedan up a steep mountain road. The driver behind him is clearly annoyed--probably been honking and profanely suggesting that Fester pull the car over. Fester, taking the abuse in stride, is waving for the driver to go around by using the opposing lane. Unbeknownst to the driver--but clear to Fester--is that there is an enormous Mack truck coming down the road on the opposite side.
I just love that cartoon image. Not one word is necessary to carry the entire story. Who hasn't felt like Fester from time to time?
"As I delicately put it to him last night...."you can always tell her 'no more cars'."
GG--
When we bought my wife's Rav4 in 2004 we purchased it from a Lexus dealership. The salesman was pretty chatty and was relaying how the dealership only kept cream puff low mileage used cars on the lot. He showed us a less than one year old Lexus sedan with 800 miles. I asked if it was some kind of dealer demo. The salesman's response was "Oh, no, the owner saw that the next model year had arrived he just had to have the new one." I'm sure I must have looked a bit shocked and mumbled something like "so there must be some significant improvements and changes in the 04 over the 03. "No, not a one, really", he replied. WOW was all I could think.
Incidentally, I just drove past the same Lexus dealership a couple of weeks ago and they have moved the entire facility across the street to a gleaming PALACE on a huge parcel of land. Now, I know how they were able to finance the move!
"Time was a more important priority that day, so I said I'd take it right then at marked price if I could get out in an hour."
Kirstie--
Hmm...your sales interaction reminds me of Janet Leigh's character's interaction with the used car salesman in Psycho--and she was on the run from the law. Did you pay for the replacement car with a wad of $100 dollar bills produced from your purse? I guess the fact that you are still posting on the forums means that you didn't stop for the night at the Bates Motel. Whew!
He was bemoaning to me he lost about $15K on the Cobra. He lost another $10K on the G. Probably looking at another $10K-$15K loss on the SHO....all in the course of the last 3 years
For someone who started out with a 7 year old Lancer, they are getting pretty particular. Hope there is a good side to this relationship.
A guy like that should be driving an old Topaz, just so he knows the new girlfriend really likes him because of him...not his car.
Time was a more important priority that day, so I said I'd take it right then at marked price if I could get out in an hour.
After all the grinding stories around here...you actually saw the car you liked, thought it was a fair price, bought the car with no bargaining, turned around and drove home.
That salesman must think he died and went to heaven.
Hey isell, how many of those do you get in a lifetime?
No matter what the price was, no matter how low, even when we priced cars in error, people always wanted more.
I always try to get a little lower in price, you won't get if you don't ask. As I said before with my last purchase, I saw the car and researched it including price. The sticker that was on the car was an OK price but not a good price. However they had it listed on their website as a "special" that my research told me was a great deal. Me and the wife went there fully willing to pay that "internet special" price. But I still tested the waters and tried to get a lower price.
Not that I was a jerk about it or wasted much time, but as I said you don't ask you don't get.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There are a few ways to look at this issue. In Kirstie's case, the car was better than what she hoped for, the price was good, she paid and drove away. Nothing wrong with it.
Someone else might say, I am close enough to try to get $500 knocked off. Dealer comes back with $200 off. Not a lot of effort, and an extra $200 would buy a nice celebretory dinner to go out to in the new car...even a bottle of champagne to smash on the front bumper.
I think I would have to try the 2nd method. But, I understand method #1 too, after all, you only have so much energy, you are elated that everything just happened with no gliches...go home and enjoy the car.....and in one years time that extra $200 will mean nothing really....but you will still love your car.
As someone who is not in the car business and is "just" a purchaser of vehicles my feeling is that it is very very difficult to have either sympathy or empathy for car sales people. First of all, in the vast majority of times I have been to show rooms to look at vehicles I always feel like I want to take a shower when I get home. I realize that the car business does have a few (very few) decent hardworking honest sales people who care about their customers. However, the sales staff described by those adjectives are very rare.
I don't know if it is the "culture" of the car business which treats its employees like Fagin sending his crew out to cheat and steal, or whether sales people simply don't care as their livelihood depends only on the deals they close. In addition, the chances of a sales person being at the dealership past the next month are not very high, so why should the sales person even care about anything other than making the sale.
Since it is possible to get service at ANY authorized dealer, it should not be a surprise to anyone that the cost of the vehicle is the deciding factor for the purchase. Yes, "grinders" (as you sales people call them) do try to minimize their cost. What do you expect? It is simply the job of the consumer to get the vehicle for the least cost and it is the job of the sales person to sell the vehicle at the highest profit to the dealer. Although it is a zero sum game between purchasers and dealers, both can come out winners if there is some accommodation between both parties.
What I, as a consumer, absolutely hate is the dishonest practices used by car dealers. The dishonesty extends to false advertising, fake payments, phoney "125% trade in deals, and ads which tout a low price, but then (in the fine print) you find out about a huge down payment to get to the "special" price. In addition, the games played in the F&I office, or by sales people who show you a contract with different numbers than were agreed are common and unconscionable.
Yes, I understand that, in general, people are aholes and that dealing with the public is tough, but don't expect consumers to "feel your pain" when pain is exactly what is inflicted by sales people.
I wonder how many people here have actually done what the sales guys are talking about, taking a price on a given car and then shopping it around to other dealers, to compare on the same model elsewhere?
I never have. Not that I think it's wrong or anything, but I have never been in a situation where two dealers had exactly the same car. I always go shopping with a budget in mind and I'm quite good at sticking to my budget. But still, I have to find the right car first, and then agree on a price.
Only once have I walked away from a dealer because we couldn't come to terms on price on a car I wanted. This was a Maxima back in 1992. He couldn't come down to less than my budget figure of $18,000. He was firm at $18,300 or something like that.
So a couple days later I bought a Camry for $17,700. A day or two after that, the Nissan guy called again and said he could do the deal for $18,000 after all, and I had to say "sorry, too late."
That was the most memorable time. Other than that, I have only walked out on a dealer because they didn't have the car I wanted, not because we couldn't agree on a price for something they had that fit what I wanted.
These discussions about price have actually surprised me some. Is it really that easy to find identical cars at two different dealers and compete to find the best price? I guess with the internet now it's easier, but even checking dealers' inventory on line, during my recent quest I was never able to find two dealers with exactly the same car. I considered myself lucky to have finally found *one* dealer who had the car I wanted, out of three in my immediate area and another three or four who were more distant.
Well, I do declare and bless my soul. Where did YOU come from? You could make this place a little more exciting. It's been needing a shot in the old engine. Only 170 forum posts in five years? You should get out more. You write well and you obviously have a brain that supports more than a hat.
I'm with Jipster. You appear to have had some "vehicular interchanges" with automobile representatives. All avid readers thirst for tasty, tantalizing tidbits of tabloid text. Put it on us young man---hoping that you are at least below the age of 70. We are now offering discounts on dues for those who are at least 20 years out from Social Security. Welcome to our little corner of the world.
Well I guess I'm one of the guilty ones of comparing prices among the dealerships, a process that I do not find so strange or anything unusual, after all I do it for most other things so why not on cars. Once I've decided which vehicle best suits my needs I begin the process of identifying who has what in stock (generally by email), providing them with as much information as possible (IE. VIN, etc) and wait for responses. In my case finding identical vehicles is not that difficult since I tend to choose popular colors and options ,hard part is getting them to provide any responses other than come on down for a test drive or a price slightly less than MSRP. I do my homework and have a good idea as to price just as I'm sure each dealership does as they know the market better than I, so what's the problem of providing a realistic price up front. Thankfully some dealerships do a much better job providing requested pricing information than others. Are they always cheaper, no but 9 times out of time I buy from them, and surprise, surprise they actually encourage cross shopping prices.
Salespeople are there to do a job. That job is to get the customer to buy. Under no circumstances do I consider the salesperson my friend. That said, I do try to treat each salesperson with respect. I also expect them to treat me with respect.
When I purchase a vehicle, I send out emails to all of the local dealers requesting their best price. Yes, price is a top consideration. Once I have all the prices, I dismiss any dealer who does not provide a price as well as any dealer whose price is way off the mark.
I will then visit the two or three dealers who have provided the best price to determine the value they will allow for my trade-in. At that time, I may "grind" a bit to see if I can get them to lower their quote a bit more. In my experience, most dealers will match or beat a competitor's price, it is the trade-in value where I find the biggest differences. Yes I know selling a vehicle myself will provide a higher price but I don't like the bother of selling a used vehicle.
One thing I usually do is dismiss dealers who attach a dealer add-on sticker to the vehicle. I do not believe buyers should reward such dealers. However, if the dealer has attached something minor like $100 pin-stripes or wheel locks, I may stick around a bit as I have found those dealers will generally not insist I pay for such minor things. It is the ones who want $800 or more for a bunch of unwanted, overpriced stuff which I ignore. It is simply not worth the time to dicker with these types of dealers. The addition of such a sticker is an indication their sales philosophy will require far too much time. Why bother when there are many dealers who do not resort to such tactics.
Once I have identified the best pricing (sales price less trade-in), I start working on the financing. Before I buy, I have determined the interest rate available from credit unions, banks, etc. I have found dealers will usually find a way to beat those rates if given a chance.
Once I have everything in place, the next criteria is location. Everything being equal, I will usually buy from the dealer whose location best suits my needs (price, trade-in, location).
I must admit, the personality of the sales person does, ultimately, have an impact on my final decision. I like to reward a salesperson who seems interested in me as a person and who does not play games (e;g: turn over, trips to the tower, etc) with my business. If I sense a salesperson is playing games, I will find a way to leave the dealership ASAP.
The final issue in actually purchasing a vehicle is in the finance office. I expect a certain amount of issues when I enter the little room to finalize the deal. When asked I always say I plan on keeping the vehicle for three years. That usually stops them from spending a lot of time trying to sell me an extended warranty. Then I tell them I do not want anything listed on the inevitable sheet of items they think I might be interested in buying. In fact, I have not purchased vehicles because of an overly aggressive finance person.
I have found my approach usually results in a fair price with a minimal amount of time for both me and the salesperson.
Is it really that easy to find identical cars at two different dealers and compete to find the best price?
The only time I couldn't was when I bought the Elantra wagon. It was in 2000, the last year of the station wagon, and it was the only one left in the area that I could find. Other than that when I bought new every dealership had the car I wanted with the options I wanted in a narrow range of colors I would accept.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
vt....it does indeed sound like you've got a few good buying stories to tell. Would love to hear them.
In fairness, it does sound like you're shopping at the places who employ tactics which you should be leery of before you even walk in the door. I've always said (as have most of the sales pros who post here), if you don't trust a dealership, or a sales manager, or a sales person, why shop at that store?
Like most purchases, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. You cite the example of getting 125% of your trade-in's true worth. Too good to be true, right? 125% more that it's worth according to whom would be the question I'd ask.
Finance rates are many times sponsored by the car manufacturers. Just a rule of thumb, when it comes to finance, whether to apply for a car loan, or a credit card, or anything else where you're borrowing money, fine print rules the day, unfortunately (did you really ever read those credit card applications you signed?). And, knowing your creditworthiness is always a good idea before you walk into any dealership which you plan to borrow money to buy the car. Plus, those finance rates are usually reserved for those with the very top tier credit. Also understand that those "special" rates are set by the manufacturer's finance arm, not the dealership.
We've said it before in here. As you point out, the best deal is the one where it's a win-win situation. You're happy with your deal. The dealership is happy to sell the car to you without any histrionics.
Not to take anything away from jipster's best seller, but that's the exact reason I only utilize the GG method of car buying.....do your research before you walk into the dealership. Know you're credit score. Know generally what you're trade is worth (with the understanding that the dealership must make a profit on your trade when they resell it). Know the market, incentives, and generally what the new car you're trying to buy sells for. Base your offer on that. Make one offer, and one offer only. Make it known to the dealership that the offer is a "one shot" offer. The answer is either "yes", or "no". If yes, you've bought a car. If no, you move on.
1) The salespeople on this forum are anything but typical. Most have been with their stores for years & all seem to be well informed and decent. In my experience, that combination is highly unusual.
2) The car buyers on this forum are anything but typical. Most know (in many cases, exactly -- see below) what they want to buy, about what it should cost and that the store isn't a charity. Car enthusiasts actually care what car they drive away in; OTOH, many, if not most, buyers just want either: a) transportation, b) a monthly payment that they (think they) can swing and/or c) a vehicle that inflates their perceived self-worth.
3) Many people don't much care what they end up with -- any color so long as it's not (fill in the blank), truly optional options -- take or leave whatever's available, etc. When I bought my last car, the only one that suited me was available 800 miles away -- nothing in Phoenix, nothing in the L.A. area (or they wouldn't do dealer trades), nothing in San Diego. The one before that was a special order. Isell has no idea why any of this matters, and that's okay, because the majority of car buyers don't either.
The car buying/selling experience that the regular posters here describe is not the one that the industry model is based on, but the stories are interesting all the same.
Well done, ken117. I agree about trade-in being a sticking point. I usually trade with warranty left over and expect a good price for that reason.
I am a little jealous, however about the number of dealers you have to choose from. Here I have to travel long distances between dealers. Example, Toyota-35 miles or 40 miles opposite directions. Honda-40 miles or 65 miles. Ford-11 miles or 65 miles.
I'd like to try your way just once. Maybe a Marriott stay in a larger metro area. I'm thinking Atlanta, Ga. I have a vision of room service trays, car info scattered everywhere and Edmunds on the web with me doing multiple calls and visits until my dream car finds me. That would be fun and actually pay for itself.
"I am glad Americans got to experience Hillmans"....I have no idea if these Hillmans from the 50s were also in the U.S. I also live in your town of Burlington Ontario....learned to drive the Hillman in Oakville.
I also live in your town of Burlington Ontario....learned to drive the Hillman in Oakville.
That's very close...hope I don't lose my cover. I learned to drive a Hillman in Hamilton. We just moved up the road 2 years ago. We moved from Burlington to Waterdown.
We probably live within about 5 miles. What are the odds of that happening?
that was a great post,cdnpinhead. What is said on this thread is not reflective of the real world of auto sales. The posters don't reflect that world either. This stuff is way out to the right on the bellcurve of evil vs good.
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Cousin IT was the short furry dude with a high pithed voice on The Adams Family. Was quite the "ladies man" according to Gomez. I think he had a thing with Thing. :sick:
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Our freshman year in college, he drove his Hillman 300 miles to my university's homecoming weekend in October. When we were leaving the dance, he was as drunk as a skunk, so I had to drive the girls back to their apartment off campus. I had driven "straight gears" many times, but not like this one. It took me a good ten minutes to figure out how in the hell the gears worked. Because of this, the girls thought that I was also drunk. They decided to walk back to their apartment. They were not happy campers. To make matters worse, I drove by their apartment and blew the horn just about the time that they got there. Needless to say, I never had another date with the girl that I took to the dance.
My good friend drove his Hillman until he finished graduate school. He had enjoyed eight wonderful years with that car. He kept it in immaculate condition. He put it away until his daughter was 16. He had it reconditioned. and painted as a gift for her birthday. Though she didn't get hurt, she totaled it one week after she got it. My old buddy took it in stride, but he was so disappointed. We still tell old Hillman stories when we meet, which isn't often enough.
Richard
Richard
In the past 5 or 6 years, he's had a 'vette, which was replaced by a Mustang Cobra KR. And, he has a Ford F 150 as a daily driver (vs when I had my Tahoe as a daily driver).
He got married late in life (as in about 3 years ago). That event more or less changed forever what he puts in his garage. His love of muscle cars just wouldn't do, given that his blushing bride can't/won't drive a muscle car.
The Cobra gave way to an Infiniti G35x. His wife fretted over colors, over options, for almost a year before they finally pulled the trigger.
I think most here would agree that an Infiniti G is quite a nice car. But, after driving it for several months, she decided it was too small. IIRC, she came into the marriage with a 7 year old Mitsubishi Lancer. So, from my perspective, the G certainly isn't any smaller. And, it's certainly a much nicer car. But, she's not my wife. And, it's not my money.
As such, and to make her happy, they traded a barely one year old G in for the new Taurus SHO. Again, quite a nice car. Well, now it seems the SHO is too big, and too heavy for her liking.
He was bemoaning to me he lost about $15K on the Cobra. He lost another $10K on the G. Probably looking at another $10K-$15K loss on the SHO....all in the course of the last 3 years.
As a side note, she really likes my Acura.
As I delicately put it to him last night...."you can always tell her 'no more cars'."
To which he responded, "easy for you to say, you aren't married to her".
Touche!
So, that leaves you and me. Nobody else will buy one except the BMW guys.
Oh it's not only you and BMW guys (all BMW owners I know drive auto's), I would most likely be driving one if it wasn't for my morning commute.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Doug
No, I think Haldimand Motors (largest used car lot in North America) is still going strong. They know how to play the used car game. One of our employees bought a 2005 Ford (Taurus or 500?) and he loves the car, their warranty, and their service.
The one closing was Nethercott Chevrolet. The father sold the business to his son about 15 years ago. The father said he did well with it, but business goes down every year. The father was driving a Toyota now, he says he doesn't care what he drives, as long as it is cheap and dependable.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Let me guess. Your friends wife is 20 years younger and a lot better looking than he is. I agree... gotta keep her happy.
I can visualize my new business card now...State of Kansas, Director of Commerce, Consumer Affairs Div.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The Hillman Minx models were more attractive and quite modern looking for the times;
The convertibles looked really sharp;
Not sure why their gear shifts had to be backwards???? :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I am glad American's got to experience Hillman's...I thought they weren't that mainstream that they would have found their way to the US.
I forgot about those little signal arms. The new cars have flashing mirrors or lights along the side of the cars......everything old is new again!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
No matter what your savings look like those car losses will dent a wallet.
If Melinda did that to Bill even he would have to say "hold on a minute"
My wife came equipped with a Buick Skylark back in 1977. Nice car at the time. If I had met her when she owned a (ahem) Rambler American I don't think we would have gotten off the ground.
Do I judge someone by what they drive? Sure do. Shallow, yes. But it says a lot.
His wife arriving with a Misterbitchy Lancer (EVO would have been mentioned and taken it to a different level) should have been a big red flag. Caution.
Now if this little lady had arrived on scene with this...whole nuther story.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Richard
Richard
Richard
Why did you interpret my response to mean that a “grinder” would be coming in?
My comment applied to people that would be walking through the door “in the future”. Some of those people have to be real customers. By default, that has to be the case. :confuse:
I keep hearing that a salesman can’t pre-qualify a customer. So, if you want more repeat business you have to give some time to walk-ins. Now, if you see you’re dealing with a “grinder” ,yeah, show him the door.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Edit: If you actually do a deal with the guy who comes in just to beat an already low price (which is rarely the case) he will kill you on CSI, not be a repeat buyer and not send referrals. What is the point?
We can be wrong but not usually.
Yes, I know this isn't the thing to do but it's done all of the time and usually with accuracy.
The Mitsu was not an EVO.....just a plain jane Lancer (yellow one, at that).
I can only speculate on the intangibles of their union. But, frugality isn't one of them.
Any of the cars he's sold recently I would have jumped on (almost jumped on the G35x). That KR Cobra would have been sweet, too. Except, if I would be back in the market for American muscle, it would be of the convertible variety.
Hell, even that SHO would be something I'd seriously consider if I were in the market right now.
Should be interesting as their marriage matures (if it matures).
He's done things without any sort of interference for so long, this is new territory for him.
As I've discussed with him before, the two most powerful words in the world are "YES" and "NO". Maybe he should practice more of the latter, and less of the former.
Has anybody here sold a car & then the customer tried to bring it back because they claimed to get a lower price?
I get it all the time. Someone will buy something from me & then return it a few days later saying they didn't need it. A lot of times it is because they found it cheaper somewhere else.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Lets institute that into all car sales.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I once told a customer that our store would be willing to write a check for every car they had in their inventory for that price and that we would pick them up and send the customer 500.00.
Think I ever heard anything?
That sounds like a fair exchange--rather than negotiate for less money you took an added value from their side in the form of a quick transaction and delivery! Less time to get car was worth money.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Richard,
As you and most of the forum posters know, Cousin Itt and the other other Addam's clan were the creation of Charles Addams, a long time New Yorker cartoon contributor.
One of my favorite Addam's cartoons had a car theme. Uncle Fester is driving a sizable convertible sedan up a steep mountain road. The driver behind him is clearly annoyed--probably been honking and profanely suggesting that Fester pull the car over. Fester, taking the abuse in stride, is waving for the driver to go around by using the opposing lane. Unbeknownst to the driver--but clear to Fester--is that there is an enormous Mack truck coming down the road on the opposite side.
I just love that cartoon image. Not one word is necessary to carry the entire story. Who hasn't felt like Fester from time to time?
Gogiboy
GG--
When we bought my wife's Rav4 in 2004 we purchased it from a Lexus dealership. The salesman was pretty chatty and was relaying how the dealership only kept cream puff low mileage used cars on the lot. He showed us a less than one year old Lexus sedan with 800 miles. I asked if it was some kind of dealer demo. The salesman's response was "Oh, no, the owner saw that the next model year had arrived he just had to have the new one." I'm sure I must have looked a bit shocked and mumbled something like "so there must be some significant improvements and changes in the 04 over the 03. "No, not a one, really", he replied. WOW was all I could think.
Incidentally, I just drove past the same Lexus dealership a couple of weeks ago and they have moved the entire facility across the street to a gleaming PALACE on a huge parcel of land. Now, I know how they were able to finance the move!
Gogiboy
Kirstie--
Hmm...your sales interaction reminds me of Janet Leigh's character's interaction with the used car salesman in Psycho--and she was on the run from the law. Did you pay for the replacement car with a wad of $100 dollar bills produced from your purse? I guess the fact that you are still posting on the forums means that you didn't stop for the night at the Bates Motel. Whew!
Gogiboy
For someone who started out with a 7 year old Lancer, they are getting pretty particular. Hope there is a good side to this relationship.
A guy like that should be driving an old Topaz, just so he knows the new girlfriend really likes him because of him...not his car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
After all the grinding stories around here...you actually saw the car you liked, thought it was a fair price, bought the car with no bargaining, turned around and drove home.
That salesman must think he died and went to heaven.
Hey isell, how many of those do you get in a lifetime?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
No matter what the price was, no matter how low, even when we priced cars in error, people always wanted more.
I always try to get a little lower in price, you won't get if you don't ask. As I said before with my last purchase, I saw the car and researched it including price. The sticker that was on the car was an OK price but not a good price. However they had it listed on their website as a "special" that my research told me was a great deal. Me and the wife went there fully willing to pay that "internet special" price. But I still tested the waters and tried to get a lower price.
Not that I was a jerk about it or wasted much time, but as I said you don't ask you don't get.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There are a few ways to look at this issue. In Kirstie's case, the car was better than what she hoped for, the price was good, she paid and drove away. Nothing wrong with it.
Someone else might say, I am close enough to try to get $500 knocked off. Dealer comes back with $200 off. Not a lot of effort, and an extra $200 would buy a nice celebretory dinner to go out to in the new car...even a bottle of champagne to smash on the front bumper.
I think I would have to try the 2nd method. But, I understand method #1 too, after all, you only have so much energy, you are elated that everything just happened with no gliches...go home and enjoy the car.....and in one years time that extra $200 will mean nothing really....but you will still love your car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't know if it is the "culture" of the car business which treats its employees like Fagin sending his crew out to cheat and steal, or whether sales people simply don't care as their livelihood depends only on the deals they close. In addition, the chances of a sales person being at the dealership past the next month are not very high, so why should the sales person even care about anything other than making the sale.
Since it is possible to get service at ANY authorized dealer, it should not be a surprise to anyone that the cost of the vehicle is the deciding factor for the purchase. Yes, "grinders" (as you sales people call them) do try to minimize their cost. What do you expect? It is simply the job of the consumer to get the vehicle for the least cost and it is the job of the sales person to sell the vehicle at the highest profit to the dealer. Although it is a zero sum game between purchasers and dealers, both can come out winners if there is some accommodation between both parties.
What I, as a consumer, absolutely hate is the dishonest practices used by car dealers. The dishonesty extends to false advertising, fake payments, phoney "125% trade in deals, and ads which tout a low price, but then (in the fine print) you find out about a huge down payment to get to the "special" price. In addition, the games played in the F&I office, or by sales people who show you a contract with different numbers than were agreed are common and unconscionable.
Yes, I understand that, in general, people are aholes and that dealing with the public is tough, but don't expect consumers to "feel your pain" when pain is exactly what is inflicted by sales people.
I never have. Not that I think it's wrong or anything, but I have never been in a situation where two dealers had exactly the same car. I always go shopping with a budget in mind and I'm quite good at sticking to my budget. But still, I have to find the right car first, and then agree on a price.
Only once have I walked away from a dealer because we couldn't come to terms on price on a car I wanted. This was a Maxima back in 1992. He couldn't come down to less than my budget figure of $18,000. He was firm at $18,300 or something like that.
So a couple days later I bought a Camry for $17,700. A day or two after that, the Nissan guy called again and said he could do the deal for $18,000 after all, and I had to say "sorry, too late."
That was the most memorable time. Other than that, I have only walked out on a dealer because they didn't have the car I wanted, not because we couldn't agree on a price for something they had that fit what I wanted.
These discussions about price have actually surprised me some. Is it really that easy to find identical cars at two different dealers and compete to find the best price? I guess with the internet now it's easier, but even checking dealers' inventory on line, during my recent quest I was never able to find two dealers with exactly the same car. I considered myself lucky to have finally found *one* dealer who had the car I wanted, out of three in my immediate area and another three or four who were more distant.
I'm with Jipster. You appear to have had some "vehicular interchanges" with automobile representatives. All avid readers thirst for tasty, tantalizing tidbits of tabloid text. Put it on us young man---hoping that you are at least below the age of 70. We are now offering discounts on dues for those who are at least 20 years out from Social Security. Welcome to our little corner of the world.
Richard
When I purchase a vehicle, I send out emails to all of the local dealers requesting their best price. Yes, price is a top consideration. Once I have all the prices, I dismiss any dealer who does not provide a price as well as any dealer whose price is way off the mark.
I will then visit the two or three dealers who have provided the best price to determine the value they will allow for my trade-in. At that time, I may "grind" a bit to see if I can get them to lower their quote a bit more. In my experience, most dealers will match or beat a competitor's price, it is the trade-in value where I find the biggest differences. Yes I know selling a vehicle myself will provide a higher price but I don't like the bother of selling a used vehicle.
One thing I usually do is dismiss dealers who attach a dealer add-on sticker to the vehicle. I do not believe buyers should reward such dealers. However, if the dealer has attached something minor like $100 pin-stripes or wheel locks, I may stick around a bit as I have found those dealers will generally not insist I pay for such minor things. It is the ones who want $800 or more for a bunch of unwanted, overpriced stuff which I ignore. It is simply not worth the time to dicker with these types of dealers. The addition of such a sticker is an indication their sales philosophy will require far too much time. Why bother when there are many dealers who do not resort to such tactics.
Once I have identified the best pricing (sales price less trade-in), I start working on the financing. Before I buy, I have determined the interest rate available from credit unions, banks, etc. I have found dealers will usually find a way to beat those rates if given a chance.
Once I have everything in place, the next criteria is location. Everything being equal, I will usually buy from the dealer whose location best suits my needs (price, trade-in, location).
I must admit, the personality of the sales person does, ultimately, have an impact on my final decision. I like to reward a salesperson who seems interested in me as a person and who does not play games (e;g: turn over, trips to the tower, etc) with my business. If I sense a salesperson is playing games, I will find a way to leave the dealership ASAP.
The final issue in actually purchasing a vehicle is in the finance office. I expect a certain amount of issues when I enter the little room to finalize the deal. When asked I always say I plan on keeping the vehicle for three years. That usually stops them from spending a lot of time trying to sell me an extended warranty. Then I tell them I do not want anything listed on the inevitable sheet of items they think I might be interested in buying. In fact, I have not purchased vehicles because of an overly aggressive finance person.
I have found my approach usually results in a fair price with a minimal amount of time for both me and the salesperson.
The only time I couldn't was when I bought the Elantra wagon. It was in 2000, the last year of the station wagon, and it was the only one left in the area that I could find. Other than that when I bought new every dealership had the car I wanted with the options I wanted in a narrow range of colors I would accept.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In fairness, it does sound like you're shopping at the places who employ tactics which you should be leery of before you even walk in the door. I've always said (as have most of the sales pros who post here), if you don't trust a dealership, or a sales manager, or a sales person, why shop at that store?
Like most purchases, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. You cite the example of getting 125% of your trade-in's true worth. Too good to be true, right? 125% more that it's worth according to whom would be the question I'd ask.
Finance rates are many times sponsored by the car manufacturers. Just a rule of thumb, when it comes to finance, whether to apply for a car loan, or a credit card, or anything else where you're borrowing money, fine print rules the day, unfortunately (did you really ever read those credit card applications you signed?). And, knowing your creditworthiness is always a good idea before you walk into any dealership which you plan to borrow money to buy the car. Plus, those finance rates are usually reserved for those with the very top tier credit. Also understand that those "special" rates are set by the manufacturer's finance arm, not the dealership.
We've said it before in here. As you point out, the best deal is the one where it's a win-win situation. You're happy with your deal. The dealership is happy to sell the car to you without any histrionics.
Not to take anything away from jipster's best seller, but that's the exact reason I only utilize the GG method of car buying.....do your research before you walk into the dealership. Know you're credit score. Know generally what you're trade is worth (with the understanding that the dealership must make a profit on your trade when they resell it). Know the market, incentives, and generally what the new car you're trying to buy sells for. Base your offer on that. Make one offer, and one offer only. Make it known to the dealership that the offer is a "one shot" offer. The answer is either "yes", or "no". If yes, you've bought a car. If no, you move on.
2) The car buyers on this forum are anything but typical. Most know (in many cases, exactly -- see below) what they want to buy, about what it should cost and that the store isn't a charity. Car enthusiasts actually care what car they drive away in; OTOH, many, if not most, buyers just want either: a) transportation, b) a monthly payment that they (think they) can swing and/or c) a vehicle that inflates their perceived self-worth.
3) Many people don't much care what they end up with -- any color so long as it's not (fill in the blank), truly optional options -- take or leave whatever's available, etc. When I bought my last car, the only one that suited me was available 800 miles away -- nothing in Phoenix, nothing in the L.A. area (or they wouldn't do dealer trades), nothing in San Diego. The one before that was a special order. Isell has no idea why any of this matters, and that's okay, because the majority of car buyers don't either.
The car buying/selling experience that the regular posters here describe is not the one that the industry model is based on, but the stories are interesting all the same.
I am a little jealous, however about the number of dealers you have to choose from. Here I have to travel long distances between dealers. Example, Toyota-35 miles or 40 miles opposite directions. Honda-40 miles or 65 miles. Ford-11 miles or 65 miles.
I'd like to try your way just once. Maybe a Marriott stay in a larger metro area. I'm thinking Atlanta, Ga. I have a vision of room service trays, car info scattered everywhere and Edmunds on the web with me doing multiple calls and visits until my dream car finds me. That would be fun and actually pay for itself.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I also live in your town of Burlington Ontario....learned to drive the Hillman in Oakville.
Take care neighbour.
Doug
That's very close...hope I don't lose my cover.
I learned to drive a Hillman in Hamilton. We just moved up the road 2 years ago. We moved from Burlington to Waterdown.
We probably live within about 5 miles. What are the odds of that happening?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250