"...if you ever have to get rid of the dog it must be returned to them (the breeder)."
You are correct. We are not allowed to sell the dog or take it to a shelter. If something happens, we return it to them. Coco is the agency's most popular breed. There were six of them. We were 5th in line and had selected him as our first choice. We had no idea that we would actually end up with our first choice. We're really happy about getting him.
I have the same arrangement with both my dogs. One came from a rescue; one came from an excellent breeder. In both cases, should I or my husband no longer be able to care for the dog, it is supposed to go back to the rescue and to the breeder, accordingly.
Of course both of them said that if I named a person specifically in my will to take care of the dog, and that person accepted, that arrangement would be honored.
A good breeder really does care about where their dogs are placed and will take an interest in the dog's welfare all its life.
>I wonder if they ever consider the quality of the service department in their decision to buy from a certain dealer.
I sure did (do). I bought Buicks from a particular GM store because of how proper and caring the people were throughout the operation. The service is managed by one of the three brothers, sons of the original owner since 1920 or 30 or so. The other two were the sales guys. I learned lots of relatives were scattered throughout the business. Nobody had a silver spoon. The owners pumped gas at the corner pumps. The new guys did every job in the place for months at a time, service writer, tow truck driver, lot jockey/hand car washer. So everyone knew the job was not about them but about the customer in the end. We sent them lots of business from 25 miles and more away, both for sales and service.
All Hondas are created equal, all Fords & Chevys are not. Try going to a Ford dealer to buy an F150 & then try to find the exact same one at another dealer across town or across the country.
One of the hardest things I took into consideration when buying my Acura during Cash 4 Clunkers last year was the fact that I knew NOTHING of any Acura service dept. My Dad's Tahoe purchase was equally as hard knowing that he'd be without the truly amazing service department of the BMW dealer we've cultivated a relationship with since 2004.
Let's do a short recap:
Pull in on a flatbed with Dad's X5 that just stopped on the Tappan Zee bridge in the middle of rush hour during a snowstorm due to a 2x4 that went up through his radiator. Here's a car Bradd, just glad your Dad & the dogs didn't get hurt. People couldn't even get appointments for service for a few days, much less a loaner car.
Pull in on a flatbed with wife's X3 after she hot a center divider & blew out 2 tires. No problem Bradd, glad your wife is OK & none of the boys were with her. Here's another X3 to use for the weekend. I'll call yuou when your truck is ready.
Those are just the 2 MAJOR incidents that stick out in my mind. Will I ever buy another BMW from another dealership? NO.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I understand all this stuff with the dog rescues and breeders but I just don't believe things like you need a fenced yard to have a dog or someone has to be in the house all the time. That's OK. I'm the guy that takes care of the dogs that don't get rescued otherwise and whose only breeders were his parents. Good old mutts.
No offense to the rest of you folks. There's room for all of us.
Gromit is mostly black lab but enough chow in him that his tongue is spotted.
Wally is yellow lab, husky and some other things.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
If I had that sort of dealer I'd be giving him all my business as well.
Where I grew up we had a Chrysler Plymouth guy like that. At various times it was a DeSoto Plymouth and just a stand alone Plymouth. My dad bought the only new car of my childhood - a 57 Plymouth Custom Suburban - there. Sadly a combination of megadealers and the last generation not being as dedicated to things as previous ones and it's long gone. All the old family places are gone out here.
Actually, up maybe 35 miles away is one that is still there. Used to be a Pontiac place and is now a stand alone Buick operation.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
But, with so many customers now, they don't care about those things. They have already researched the cars to death and ALL they care about is PRICE!
If you know that price is a big motivator for these customers, how long does it take you to offer a good price? Surely you have access to the same research these customers do, and know what price they must be looking for? Do you hit that price pretty quickly or make them work for it?
For me personally, the first priority is finding the car equipped as I want it in an acceptable color. That is non-negotiable; I won't compromise on what I really want.
Price is second, and quality of service department is third.
Even though price is my second criteria, not the first, I will walk out of a dealer's lot if I see a second sticker next to the Mulroney sticker with "Additional Dealer Markup" or some such thing. I'm not interested in playing those games.
Try going to a Ford dealer to buy an F150 & then try to find the exact same one at another dealer across town or across the country.
We have dozens of Ford dealers around here. If I can find one F-150 at one dealership I know I can find another just like it at others.
t I knew NOTHING of any Acura service dept.
Which begs the question, if you actually need the service department how well built is the car? Plus the fact that I can use any dealership service department. Nothing says I even have to use a dealerships service department.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A good breeder is very fussy where they will place their dogs. Some even stipulate that if you ever have to get rid of the dog it must be returned to them (the breeder).
Breeders... have all the screenings, referrals and psychological testing of buyers you want. But I think it idiotic, and an infringement of ones rights, to stipulate what a buyer can and can't do with a dog after he or she hands over the cash. I wouldn't think such non-resell stipulation enforceable under the law anyhow, and how the breeder would even know about it's animals after the sale is questionable. Maybe breeders require weekly status reports from buyers as well? Seems more like a marketing ploy to me. Sure they care about their animals and want good homes for them, but come on.. this is Obama Care at its worse. :sick:
So, if I understand you correctly, you will visit a dealership, test drive, tap the straight commissioned salesman's brain on new technologies, options, etc., then go somewhere else where there is no time or effort involved on the dealership's part just to save a few bucks.
bianca....I hear you. I have some dealerships I just refuse to do business with because walking the lot, and seeing the "add-on sticker" on their vehicles, I know that it's going to be a fight to just get some semblance of a deal done. First, you have to waive off the add-on sticker. Then, you have to fight with them for every $50 at the negotiation table. I'm not interested in doing that. Even when I tell them up front that I'm not willing to do the bump and grind routine, they insist, I'm out of there in pretty short order.
On the other end of the spectrum, if we sit down as I show the details of the deal I'm looking for, and it goes smoothly, I turn into a serious buyer, very quickly.
I don't spend a lot of time at the negotiation table. I do spend a lot of time formulating my offer, away from the dealership, however. Once I'm committed to my offer, I'm a buyer at that offer. I tell them that, also.
Is it the right way to do a car deal? I dunno. It works for me.
From what I can gather, I could probably do a deal with any of the sales pros who post here. They like being jerked around even less than I do. I can appreciate that.
tap the straight commissioned salesman's brain on new technologies, options, etc.
I will never understand why the dealership's pay structure should enter into my world at all.
I've been hosting these forums for, oh, about 9 years now. I've never had anyone ask me what my pay structure is. What if you found out we get paid per on-topic post? Would our constant whining about wasting our time reading off-topic posts get old? Or our constant insinuation that lurkers are tapping into our knowledge base without providing salary? Or, would you just assume that it's our job to provide a venue that'd be of enough value to generate enough on-topic posts from members that we don't have to try to guilt you by constantly bringing up our salary structure? Just a thought.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Speaking for myself, I never wanted my customers to know how I was paid. It has nothing to do with the deal.
I would have to assume however, that the majority of customers would know that we weren't hourly employees and that at least a portion of our pay was through commissions. It's 100% by the way.
With that in mind, I would expect a customer to give me a chance at their business instead of just using my knowledge and time only to shop me all over town.
But I probably expected too much.
I've never tried to "guilt" anyone. Just stating facts and the realities of the business.
Jmonroe: as you said -very tough to drive a manual in NYC. I have driven a manual I think only once or twice in my life.
I’ve driven a manual more than once or twice in my life, in and out of city traffic, and I don’t plan to do it anymore either. I’ve said this before, I’m waaay too lazy to do that. After I got out of the Navy I drove for UPS for a while when I was going to night school. Fortunately, that job didn’t have to pay for the schooling, the VA did that for me, because that was the deal when I signed up and I have no regrets about that.
However, to make some spending money, like I said, I drove for UPS. A stick shift, all day long 8+ hours a day for about 3 years (there is a tale about the end of this “employment opportunity” that I could tell but not right now). Man, did my ’62 Chevy Biscayne 6 cyl. automatic take a beating at the end of the work day from what I did to that poor thing. So much so that I was almost afraid of getting diminished value for the dented floor pan to the left of the brake peddle when I traded it in for my first new car, a ’66 Bonneville.
That UPS job took the fun out of driving a stick for me, forever.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
With that in mind, I would expect a customer to give me a chance at their business instead of just using my knowledge and time only to shop me all over town.
Don’t get me wrong. I would never want to be a car salesman but like it’s been said before, don’t you get customers that have shopped at other stores? It seems like the law of averages would dictate this. No store can be that unlucky to be in the wrong spot all the time.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Kristie, My pay is not part of the equation and no customer has ever known what I was paid on the deal. On the other hand, to me my time is valuable as I eat what I sell. If I have spent quality time with someone presenting, explaining and building value in a product only to have him go down the road for a couple of bucks without the opportunity for at worst case a last look shows no respect for what I have done to educate and contribute to their research. .
I would never want to be a car salesman but like it’s been said before, don’t you get customers that have shopped at other stores?
First of all, who cares what comes down the road in the future? If I invest quality time and provide useful information I feel I deserve an opportunity. The guy who comes into the store just wanting best price will not get as good a deal as someone I have spent time and energy with. That is because I am a sales person, not an order taker. The guy I successfully spend time with in many cases will become a repeat customer and invariably will provide a great CSI and referrals. The guy who comes in to beat another dealers price by a few bucks has no loyalty and will roll the bus on CSI.
I LOVE BMWs. The way they drive, the way they ride, the way they accelerate, the way they handle, the way they brake, the feel they have for the road, the way they look, how beautifully crafted their interiors are, the way they include maintenance in the price of every new vehicle they sell... I could go on and on.
The 3 main reasons I didn't go to BMW when it was Cash 4 Clunkers time was size, price, & fuel economy. The car that I bought from C4C was to eventually become my wife's car (family hauler). We currently lease an '07 BMW X3. She was on pace to go over her lease miles (somewhere around $1200 - $1500) so I figured between that and the C4C $ I was getting that it would be worth it to eat an extra car payment for a year. We bought the TSX in August '09 & the lease on our X3 isnt't up until July '10.
If you know anything about BMW's lineup, the 3 series is small. My mom has an '08 328xiA that my Dad refers to as "the clown car.". It is a fantastic car if you are single or just married, but once you put children into the equasion, the car becomes impractical. They are also expensive for the size of the car they are. The next step up is a 5 series which is a $50K automobile. The C4C program said the new car couln't have an msrp of over $45K. In addition, the 5 series didn't meet the fuel economy requirements.
As to why I bought an Acura, it is probably 7/10ths a BMW as far as driving dynamics go, is handsome, has a very well crafted interior, comes loaded, gets fantastic gas mileage, has a huge trunk, and has an MSRP of just over $33K. Best of all, under the heated leather seats, backup camera, navigation system, taut suspension... is a HONDA. My daily driver is a 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH with almost 121,000 miles on it. I'm sure if I just keep up with maintenance, our TSX will last us many years & many miles.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Speaking for myself, I never wanted my customers to know how I was paid. It has nothing to do with the deal.
Interesting ... one of the first things our MINI salesman told us upon arriving on the lot was that they get paid based on the number of cars they sell, not the individual price paid on any one deal.
Of course, they are fixed price (MSRP, since it's MINI), so not sure what the point was ....
If I have spent quality time with someone presenting, explaining and building value in a product...
Why is it I never get to present, explain and build value in my trade? You guys look at a little black book and bingo there's the number which is all I really need a salesman to do on the car I'm buying.
If I didn't think it had value I wouldn't be looking at it.
First of all, who cares what comes down the road in the future? If I invest quality time and provide useful information I feel I deserve an opportunity.
All I’m saying is that you have to get some customers that walk away from other stores for a myriad of reasons and I’m sure you don’t say to the guy that is now at your store, “why don’t you go back to the other store because that guy probably spent some ‘quality time’ working with you”.
The guy who comes into the store just wanting best price will not get as good a deal as someone I have spent time and energy with.
This might explain why a customer decides to leave your store and goes down the street. I personally don’t want or need a lengthy stay at a dealership when I go to buy a car. I think there are a couple others around here that feel the same way. We do our research and want a yay or nay. We try to keep it simple.
So I’ve been told, the longer I’m at the table the better the chances are that I’ll be bumped up. I say, “so I’ve been told” because I never stick around long enough to get into that game.
In your biz, I have to think that it works both ways. Sometimes for you and sometimes against you.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
What's wrong with your assesment is the fact that us "enthusiasts" make up such a small percentage of the car buying pubilc & so many people don't know what a car can & can't do. The sales presentation helps them decide between 2 manufacturers or 2 different dealerships.
Especially in LRGUY44's case - He's trying to say how his LR is better than a competing BMW, MB, or similar luxury product.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Why is it I never get to present, explain and build value in my trade?
Good point!
It's funny when the sales guys complain about the customers who go elsewhere "to save a few lousy bucks."
Well, it's the same "few lousy bucks" that you want to KEEP. So Mr. Buyer is walking away, shaking his head, saying "I can't believe that nice sales guy who spent so much time with me is willing to lose the deal for a few lousy bucks!"
I don't know anyone's definition of "a few" when it comes to a car purchase. It's an individual perception.
But the whole argument sounds like sales people trying to justify keeping their prices as high as possible and then berating the non-customers who didn't pay it.
I wonder if the Volvo guy that I didn't buy from is shaking his head, thinking "That woman just didn't understand the value of the 1.9% financing offer!" When my thought is "That salesman just didn't understand that I really, truly wanted my car equipped as a I told him, nothing less!"
Different perspectives, but either way, it's no sale until the sales person can offer the right car at the right price. How much time you want to spend to get to that point is really up to you.
I've never had anyone ask me what my pay structure is.
What's your pay structure? :surprise:
What if you found out we get paid per on-topic post?
I'd probably say all the on-topic posts are from friends and family of yours. :P
I've never asked a salesman about his pay structure when buying a car, but I've been told several times. i.e "You did great, we only made $50 on that deal", "I only make $100 on these kind of deals, that's as low as we can go", "... your salesperson won't be making a commision.., (pause)... but okay, deal." So yeah, it's the dealerships job to take care of their employees, it's my job, for my family, to get a good deal. I can't be worried about the dealership and salesman making enough money off me to support their business and family. I hope they do, but in the end the deal is beneficial to them or they wouldn't make it.
Why is it I never get to present, explain and build value in my trade?
First off, I didn’t say the above. That was ‘makola’ but I’ve had the same thoughts that he has, the few times that I’ve traded.
It's funny when the sales guys complain about the customers who go elsewhere "to save a few lousy bucks."
I’m going to repeat myself again on this very subject. We (customers) sure do get berated when we want the last $50 on the deal and when we get it, it’s all for us. So why do the salesman fight so hard for the last lousy $50, when if they get it, they only get to keep part of it (30%, maybe)? I never did get a good answer for that one. The only explanation, although I haven’t heard it, is it’s an accumulative affect.
So, to answer the “last few lousy bucks” dilemma, it probably comes down to who’s got those “last few lousy bucks” in their hand when you drive off the lot.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Hi, Needed some help on shipping my car from West Texas to New York City. Any of you salespersons or folks have any recommendations or suggestions?? Not necessarily the cheapest price ,but reliable ,on time with good communication. Any info/advice appreciated.
No car shipping stories for me !!! LOL !! Just want a simple easy shipping ! LOL! :P
What's wrong with your assesment is the fact that us "enthusiasts" make up such a small percentage of the car buying pubilc & so many people don't know what a car can & can't do.
OK, there might be something wrong with my assessment but that pales compared to what's wrong with people that go in to buy a car and aren't sure of what they want.
Putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop can't be a good thing.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It's not the salesperson who fights for the last 50.00. It's the management of the store. Sometimes, a customer just hits rock bottom. There isn't any more.
Or the store simply doesn't want to "cheap sell" a car that they know someone else will pay more for. Would you?
Yeah..." A few lousy bucks". Until I got into this business, I had NO IDEA just how downright cheap some customers can be.
I don't mean "smart" or "frugal" I'm talking about when they are so cheap it's disgusting.
And what little respect some people have for a knowledgeable professional sales person who could actually enhance their buying experience. I am so glad I am in high end where most people appreciate what a salesperson can offer.
How about the manufacturers --- looking to save every penny on the parts to build the car. If they can save $2 per car by using standard washers instead of lock nuts, why not-- the regular ones won't loosen up before the warranty runs out. :P
that pales compared to what's wrong with people that go in to buy a car and aren't sure of what they want.
Well, I dunno. On my recent car-shopping exercise, when I started the process I wasn't sure of what I wanted. I knew what I wanted functionally, but it took driving several of the cars on my list before I could narrow it down to the final choice. That's probably not unusual. Don't most people want to look around some before deciding?
Don't most people want to look around some before deciding?
Not always ... I think the last time we test drove more than one brand was in 2006. Wanted to get a car for our daughter as she headed off to college; we test drove exactly three:
Hyundai Sonata Saturn ION Scion xA
The last two purchases were quite simple. In 2007, our '05 Saturn VUE got traded in on an '08 VUE. No other manufacturers were considered,
And, just last month, the daughter bought herself a 2010 MINI as a graduation present. We briefly did some on-line research on the Kia Forte and Hyundai Accent before the daughter decided to go with the MINI.
As my wife likes to point out, she's a buyer, not a shopper.
However, since the next car will be mine, I'll take all the time I need and evaluate my options. Since I'm 99.9% certain it will be a convertible, I'll do some test drives and narrow the choices down.
Or the store simply doesn't want to "cheap sell" a car that they know someone else will pay more for. Would you?
If you're that sure that you know someone else will pay more for it, then why complain about the potential buyers who "only care about PRICE" and find yours too high? If they walk, they are only making room for that elusive buyer who is willing to pay more.
Your deal is either good enough to turn a prospect into a buyer, or it isn't. It is what it is; if your lowest point doesn't jibe with what the prospect is willing to pay, it's no one's fault, just a failure to reach a mutually satisfactory agreement.
No you don't understand me at all. I usually don't talk to a salesman until I am ready to buy. I get all I need to know about new technologies, options, etc from magazines, online, here on Edmunds and all the like. As for test drives if it can be rented or I know someone with one that takes care of that as I think the test drives around the block that most dealers give are a joke.
I will walk into a dealership to look, sit in and get a general feel for a car but I will try not to bother people unless I have decided to pull the trigger and then its all about the price.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Thanks! It is nice to know that someone appreciates the method to my madness :P
And it made even more sense considering the $3500 I got for my 1990 BMW325iA was pretty much the break even point if I factor in the purchase price of the car ($950) + the money I poured into it for a new radiator, oil change (did it myself!), trans fluid flush/fill, brake fluid flush/fill, new tires (what a world of difference tires make, even on an almost 20 year old suspension), alignment, diagnostics, gas, & insurance.
I basically got lucky! I'm far from a financial genius. I could have done a lot better buying cars with the money I lost selling our condo.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
That is easier to do on a low end car than on a Euro luxury brand. I have customers who have researched to the nth degree and I still can impart some new knowledge. Also, our demo is nowhere close to a "spin around the block". It is about 13 miles and has mountain grades, highway, curvy 2 lane and city. Also, I always offer the use of a car for a day - my goal is a satisfied customer who will be a repeat in the future.
Also, our demo is nowhere close to a "spin around the block". It is about 13 miles and has mountain grades, highway, curvy 2 lane and city. Also, I always offer the use of a car for a day - my goal is a satisfied customer who will be a repeat in the future.
That's a FANTASTIC way to do business. Especially since you are (for the most part) selling trucks in the $40K & up range (no pun intended). Besides the test drive, you let people take the truck home, see how it looks in their driveway/garage, see how they like it when they wake up in the morning, maybe they check it out on their commute...
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Did I mention we also have an off road track (I call it the e-ticket at Disney World) tht never fails to amaze. Even though most will never do off roading , It shows the safety and capability of the cars. Included is a 36 degree side tilt. It is a great place to observe people.
shows no respect for what I have done to educate and contribute to their research.
Are you saying that it never happens the other way around where someone gets a great offer from another dealership only to walk out and buy from you for a few bucks less?
Comments
You are correct. We are not allowed to sell the dog or take it to a shelter. If something happens, we return it to them. Coco is the agency's most popular breed. There were six of them. We were 5th in line and had selected him as our first choice. We had no idea that we would actually end up with our first choice. We're really happy about getting him.
Richard
Of course both of them said that if I named a person specifically in my will to take care of the dog, and that person accepted, that arrangement would be honored.
A good breeder really does care about where their dogs are placed and will take an interest in the dog's welfare all its life.
I sure did (do). I bought Buicks from a particular GM store because of how proper and caring the people were throughout the operation. The service is managed by one of the three brothers, sons of the original owner since 1920 or 30 or so. The other two were the sales guys. I learned lots of relatives were scattered throughout the business. Nobody had a silver spoon. The owners pumped gas at the corner pumps. The new guys did every job in the place for months at a time, service writer, tow truck driver, lot jockey/hand car washer. So everyone knew the job was not about them but about the customer in the end. We sent them lots of business from 25 miles and more away, both for sales and service.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
All Hondas are created equal, all Fords & Chevys are not. Try going to a Ford dealer to buy an F150 & then try to find the exact same one at another dealer across town or across the country.
One of the hardest things I took into consideration when buying my Acura during Cash 4 Clunkers last year was the fact that I knew NOTHING of any Acura service dept. My Dad's Tahoe purchase was equally as hard knowing that he'd be without the truly amazing service department of the BMW dealer we've cultivated a relationship with since 2004.
Let's do a short recap:
Pull in on a flatbed with Dad's X5 that just stopped on the Tappan Zee bridge in the middle of rush hour during a snowstorm due to a 2x4 that went up through his radiator. Here's a car Bradd, just glad your Dad & the dogs didn't get hurt. People couldn't even get appointments for service for a few days, much less a loaner car.
Pull in on a flatbed with wife's X3 after she hot a center divider & blew out 2 tires. No problem Bradd, glad your wife is OK & none of the boys were with her. Here's another X3 to use for the weekend. I'll call yuou when your truck is ready.
Those are just the 2 MAJOR incidents that stick out in my mind. Will I ever buy another BMW from another dealership? NO.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
No offense to the rest of you folks. There's room for all of us.
Gromit is mostly black lab but enough chow in him that his tongue is spotted.
Wally is yellow lab, husky and some other things.
If I had that sort of dealer I'd be giving him all my business as well.
Where I grew up we had a Chrysler Plymouth guy like that. At various times it was a DeSoto Plymouth and just a stand alone Plymouth. My dad bought the only new car of my childhood - a 57 Plymouth Custom Suburban - there. Sadly a combination of megadealers and the last generation not being as dedicated to things as previous ones and it's long gone. All the old family places are gone out here.
Actually, up maybe 35 miles away is one that is still there. Used to be a Pontiac place and is now a stand alone Buick operation.
If you know that price is a big motivator for these customers, how long does it take you to offer a good price? Surely you have access to the same research these customers do, and know what price they must be looking for? Do you hit that price pretty quickly or make them work for it?
For me personally, the first priority is finding the car equipped as I want it in an acceptable color. That is non-negotiable; I won't compromise on what I really want.
Price is second, and quality of service department is third.
Even though price is my second criteria, not the first, I will walk out of a dealer's lot if I see a second sticker next to the Mulroney sticker with "Additional Dealer Markup" or some such thing. I'm not interested in playing those games.
I'm curious why you ended up with an Acura instead of a BMW since you liked the BMW dealer so much? What made you switch brands?
We have dozens of Ford dealers around here. If I can find one F-150 at one dealership I know I can find another just like it at others.
t I knew NOTHING of any Acura service dept.
Which begs the question, if you actually need the service department how well built is the car? Plus the fact that I can use any dealership service department. Nothing says I even have to use a dealerships service department.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Breeders... have all the screenings, referrals and psychological testing of buyers you want. But I think it idiotic, and an infringement of ones rights, to stipulate what a buyer can and can't do with a dog after he or she hands over the cash. I wouldn't think such non-resell stipulation enforceable under the law anyhow, and how the breeder would even know about it's animals after the sale is questionable. Maybe breeders require weekly status reports from buyers as well? Seems more like a marketing ploy to me. Sure they care about their animals and want good homes for them, but come on.. this is Obama Care at its worse. :sick:
On the other end of the spectrum, if we sit down as I show the details of the deal I'm looking for, and it goes smoothly, I turn into a serious buyer, very quickly.
I don't spend a lot of time at the negotiation table. I do spend a lot of time formulating my offer, away from the dealership, however. Once I'm committed to my offer, I'm a buyer at that offer. I tell them that, also.
Is it the right way to do a car deal? I dunno. It works for me.
From what I can gather, I could probably do a deal with any of the sales pros who post here. They like being jerked around even less than I do. I can appreciate that.
I will never understand why the dealership's pay structure should enter into my world at all.
I've been hosting these forums for, oh, about 9 years now. I've never had anyone ask me what my pay structure is. What if you found out we get paid per on-topic post? Would our constant whining about wasting our time reading off-topic posts get old? Or our constant insinuation that lurkers are tapping into our knowledge base without providing salary? Or, would you just assume that it's our job to provide a venue that'd be of enough value to generate enough on-topic posts from members that we don't have to try to guilt you by constantly bringing up our salary structure? Just a thought.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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I would have to assume however, that the majority of customers would know that we weren't hourly employees and that at least a portion of our pay was through commissions. It's 100% by the way.
With that in mind, I would expect a customer to give me a chance at their business instead of just using my knowledge and time only to shop me all over town.
But I probably expected too much.
I've never tried to "guilt" anyone. Just stating facts and the realities of the business.
I’ve driven a manual more than once or twice in my life, in and out of city traffic, and I don’t plan to do it anymore either. I’ve said this before, I’m waaay too lazy to do that. After I got out of the Navy I drove for UPS for a while when I was going to night school. Fortunately, that job didn’t have to pay for the schooling, the VA did that for me, because that was the deal when I signed up and I have no regrets about that.
However, to make some spending money, like I said, I drove for UPS. A stick shift, all day long 8+ hours a day for about 3 years (there is a tale about the end of this “employment opportunity” that I could tell but not right now). Man, did my ’62 Chevy Biscayne 6 cyl. automatic take a beating at the end of the work day from what I did to that poor thing. So much so that I was almost afraid of getting diminished value for the dented floor pan to the left of the brake peddle when I traded it in for my first new car, a ’66 Bonneville.
That UPS job took the fun out of driving a stick for me, forever.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Wait a minute... you're getting paid? What the heck!?...
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Wait a minute... you're getting paid? What the heck!?...
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Don’t get me wrong. I would never want to be a car salesman but like it’s been said before, don’t you get customers that have shopped at other stores? It seems like the law of averages would dictate this. No store can be that unlucky to be in the wrong spot all the time.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Can't fool us anymore!
First of all, who cares what comes down the road in the future? If I invest quality time and provide useful information I feel I deserve an opportunity. The guy who comes into the store just wanting best price will not get as good a deal as someone I have spent time and energy with. That is because I am a sales person, not an order taker. The guy I successfully spend time with in many cases will become a repeat customer and invariably will provide a great CSI and referrals. The guy who comes in to beat another dealers price by a few bucks has no loyalty and will roll the bus on CSI.
The 3 main reasons I didn't go to BMW when it was Cash 4 Clunkers time was size, price, & fuel economy. The car that I bought from C4C was to eventually become my wife's car (family hauler). We currently lease an '07 BMW X3. She was on pace to go over her lease miles (somewhere around $1200 - $1500) so I figured between that and the C4C $ I was getting that it would be worth it to eat an extra car payment for a year. We bought the TSX in August '09 & the lease on our X3 isnt't up until July '10.
If you know anything about BMW's lineup, the 3 series is small. My mom has an '08 328xiA that my Dad refers to as "the clown car.". It is a fantastic car if you are single or just married, but once you put children into the equasion, the car becomes impractical. They are also expensive for the size of the car they are. The next step up is a 5 series which is a $50K automobile. The C4C program said the new car couln't have an msrp of over $45K. In addition, the 5 series didn't meet the fuel economy requirements.
As to why I bought an Acura, it is probably 7/10ths a BMW as far as driving dynamics go, is handsome, has a very well crafted interior, comes loaded, gets fantastic gas mileage, has a huge trunk, and has an MSRP of just over $33K. Best of all, under the heated leather seats, backup camera, navigation system, taut suspension... is a HONDA. My daily driver is a 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH with almost 121,000 miles on it. I'm sure if I just keep up with maintenance, our TSX will last us many years & many miles.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Interesting ... one of the first things our MINI salesman told us upon arriving on the lot was that they get paid based on the number of cars they sell, not the individual price paid on any one deal.
Of course, they are fixed price (MSRP, since it's MINI), so not sure what the point was ....
Why is it I never get to present, explain and build value in my trade?
You guys look at a little black book and bingo there's the number which is all I really need a salesman to do on the car I'm buying.
If I didn't think it had value I wouldn't be looking at it.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
All I’m saying is that you have to get some customers that walk away from other stores for a myriad of reasons and I’m sure you don’t say to the guy that is now at your store, “why don’t you go back to the other store because that guy probably spent some ‘quality time’ working with you”.
The guy who comes into the store just wanting best price will not get as good a deal as someone I have spent time and energy with.
This might explain why a customer decides to leave your store and goes down the street. I personally don’t want or need a lengthy stay at a dealership when I go to buy a car. I think there are a couple others around here that feel the same way. We do our research and want a yay or nay. We try to keep it simple.
So I’ve been told, the longer I’m at the table the better the chances are that I’ll be bumped up. I say, “so I’ve been told” because I never stick around long enough to get into that game.
In your biz, I have to think that it works both ways. Sometimes for you and sometimes against you.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
What's wrong with your assesment is the fact that us "enthusiasts" make up such a small percentage of the car buying pubilc & so many people don't know what a car can & can't do. The sales presentation helps them decide between 2 manufacturers or 2 different dealerships.
Especially in LRGUY44's case - He's trying to say how his LR is better than a competing BMW, MB, or similar luxury product.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Good point!
It's funny when the sales guys complain about the customers who go elsewhere "to save a few lousy bucks."
Well, it's the same "few lousy bucks" that you want to KEEP. So Mr. Buyer is walking away, shaking his head, saying "I can't believe that nice sales guy who spent so much time with me is willing to lose the deal for a few lousy bucks!"
I don't know anyone's definition of "a few" when it comes to a car purchase. It's an individual perception.
But the whole argument sounds like sales people trying to justify keeping their prices as high as possible and then berating the non-customers who didn't pay it.
I wonder if the Volvo guy that I didn't buy from is shaking his head, thinking "That woman just didn't understand the value of the 1.9% financing offer!" When my thought is "That salesman just didn't understand that I really, truly wanted my car equipped as a I told him, nothing less!"
Different perspectives, but either way, it's no sale until the sales person can offer the right car at the right price. How much time you want to spend to get to that point is really up to you.
What's your pay structure? :surprise:
What if you found out we get paid per on-topic post?
I'd probably say all the on-topic posts are from friends and family of yours. :P
I've never asked a salesman about his pay structure when buying a car, but I've been told several times. i.e "You did great, we only made $50 on that deal", "I only make $100 on these kind of deals, that's as low as we can go", "... your salesperson won't be making a commision.., (pause)... but okay, deal." So yeah, it's the dealerships job to take care of their employees, it's my job, for my family, to get a good deal. I can't be worried about the dealership and salesman making enough money off me to support their business and family. I hope they do, but in the end the deal is beneficial to them or they wouldn't make it.
WOW! Nicely stated and cleverly thought out. Do you happen to do estate planning on the side?
Actually, I really have to congratulate you for stating your thought process, which I can't fault under the circumstances.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
First off, I didn’t say the above. That was ‘makola’ but I’ve had the same thoughts that he has, the few times that I’ve traded.
It's funny when the sales guys complain about the customers who go elsewhere "to save a few lousy bucks."
I’m going to repeat myself again on this very subject. We (customers) sure do get berated when we want the last $50 on the deal and when we get it, it’s all for us. So why do the salesman fight so hard for the last lousy $50, when if they get it, they only get to keep part of it (30%, maybe)? I never did get a good answer for that one. The only explanation, although I haven’t heard it, is it’s an accumulative affect.
So, to answer the “last few lousy bucks” dilemma, it probably comes down to who’s got those “last few lousy bucks” in their hand when you drive off the lot.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Needed some help on shipping my car from West Texas to New York City. Any of you salespersons or folks have any recommendations or suggestions?? Not necessarily the cheapest price ,but reliable ,on time with good communication. Any info/advice appreciated.
No car shipping stories for me !!! LOL !! Just want a simple easy shipping ! LOL!
OK, there might be something wrong with my assessment but that pales compared to what's wrong with people that go in to buy a car and aren't sure of what they want.
Putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop can't be a good thing.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Or the store simply doesn't want to "cheap sell" a car that they know someone else will pay more for. Would you?
Yeah..." A few lousy bucks". Until I got into this business, I had NO IDEA just how downright cheap some customers can be.
I don't mean "smart" or "frugal" I'm talking about when they are so cheap it's disgusting.
Well, I dunno. On my recent car-shopping exercise, when I started the process I wasn't sure of what I wanted. I knew what I wanted functionally, but it took driving several of the cars on my list before I could narrow it down to the final choice. That's probably not unusual. Don't most people want to look around some before deciding?
Not always ... I think the last time we test drove more than one brand was in 2006. Wanted to get a car for our daughter as she headed off to college; we test drove exactly three:
Hyundai Sonata
Saturn ION
Scion xA
The last two purchases were quite simple. In 2007, our '05 Saturn VUE got traded in on an '08 VUE. No other manufacturers were considered,
And, just last month, the daughter bought herself a 2010 MINI as a graduation present. We briefly did some on-line research on the Kia Forte and Hyundai Accent before the daughter decided to go with the MINI.
As my wife likes to point out, she's a buyer, not a shopper.
However, since the next car will be mine, I'll take all the time I need and evaluate my options. Since I'm 99.9% certain it will be a convertible, I'll do some test drives and narrow the choices down.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
If you're that sure that you know someone else will pay more for it, then why complain about the potential buyers who "only care about PRICE" and find yours too high? If they walk, they are only making room for that elusive buyer who is willing to pay more.
Your deal is either good enough to turn a prospect into a buyer, or it isn't. It is what it is; if your lowest point doesn't jibe with what the prospect is willing to pay, it's no one's fault, just a failure to reach a mutually satisfactory agreement.
I will walk into a dealership to look, sit in and get a general feel for a car but I will try not to bother people unless I have decided to pull the trigger and then its all about the price.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And it made even more sense considering the $3500 I got for my 1990 BMW325iA was pretty much the break even point if I factor in the purchase price of the car ($950) + the money I poured into it for a new radiator, oil change (did it myself!), trans fluid flush/fill, brake fluid flush/fill, new tires (what a world of difference tires make, even on an almost 20 year old suspension), alignment, diagnostics, gas, & insurance.
I basically got lucky! I'm far from a financial genius. I could have done a lot better buying cars with the money I lost selling our condo.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
It's the ones buying a loaded EX V6 Accord with leather and navi and saying they can't afford to pay $XXXXX much because they're poor. :confuse:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
That's a FANTASTIC way to do business. Especially since you are (for the most part) selling trucks in the $40K & up range (no pun intended). Besides the test drive, you let people take the truck home, see how it looks in their driveway/garage, see how they like it when they wake up in the morning, maybe they check it out on their commute...
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Are you saying that it never happens the other way around where someone gets a great offer from another dealership only to walk out and buy from you for a few bucks less?
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