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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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It would just be helpful on the consumer side."
I find it amazing that you would think that someone would divulge this kind of information.
Also, just HOW do you think that this would be beneficial to the consumer?
I'vwe been on both sides of the fence where the "market" for any given car I was interested in may well have been MSRP or above. I've also been on the other side where a car I may have wanted was so common and so plentiful, that a near invoice, or below, deal was easily obtainable.
What I was trying to find out was, assuming I'm not blind to conpetition for vehicles that MSRP isn't the going rate, what's the average gross that will get a deal done? Make the offer. Dealer accepts it. Drive away a car.
I'm somewhere in the middle of the "bobst method" (make an offer and see if someone/somewhere/somehow accepts it) and the "grinder" (whereas, the potential customer has no problem ginding the very last penny out of a deal, no matter how long it takes).
Truthfully, I dismiss ADMs immediately. It's just another stumbling block that gets in the way of me making a deal.
Knowing the average gross a dealer needs to make would make getting a deal done that much quicker.
Each dealership has different operating costs, so It all depends. There are certain people who participate in this forum who if I told what our Average Front Gross was, they would say "Oh that does not include, CSI and FBI and CIA money..."
I have said this soooooo many times and for somereason I think maybe two people in here have grasped the concept. I have been told that advice I give is to help the dealer *?* but really.....
Keep your mind filled with only what is necessary to get you the deal you want. Any other useless information will cause you to possibly pay too much!
Good phone up today "Ya My 03 A6 lease is up in two weeks, and I have a 2.7t, I would like to get a 3.2 S-Line 06 for the same payment I have now.........0 out of pocket." :confuse:
Not everyone can wait. What if you have a lease that's soon to expire, and the car you want is selling at or above MSRP? You're then stuck with having to pay an inflated price or buying something you don't really want
So the dealer should give up profit because YOU want the car so badly??
I should the plumber it's not fault that my water heater blew up on Christmas day and that he should charge me his regular M-F 9-5 rate?
If the car really is selling at or above MSRP, then surely that's the actual market price at that time, and not inflated at all.
Of course, that doesn't mean you have to like it!
The fleet mgr isn't a salesman?
Basically, the dealer is using this as a way to pretend they are giving you something when they take it off the price. Its a lousy tactic for lousy sellers and shoppers, in my opinion.
Is this the case ALL of the time? Well, not necessarily. I will admit there are a few instances where I can understand a dealer trying to sell the car for what the market will support ... but this applies to maybe 1% of ADM stickers out there, IMHO, maybe even less.
One good example I have of this was when the WRX first came out. I already knew of dealers selling below MSRP when I went to my local dealer to test drive one. I had bought from this dealer in the past, too. After the drive, their first offer to me was "we're charging $2k over MSRP on these cars, but since you are a repeat customer, we're willing to forget that and sell it to you for sticker!" I made it very clear that I found this extremely insulting and I they just lost a potential repeat customer. They even called me the next day and I wouldn't listen to any offer they had. I let them know they should have treated me right the first time, end of story. Am I a stubborn buyer? heck ya.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It is kind of funny, isn't it?.... You don't even want to know what kind of mark up we pay on clothing! Yikes!
ummm... i'm missing this joke. Could you explain?
Is it funny because he left out what he's currently paying?
I mean, wasn't the 2.7t over $40k originally? and now the S-line starts in the low-$40s as well, doesn't it?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
In SO Cal, you see big ADMs on amy new car, hot color of a run of the mill car, and I worked in that enviroment, and some would buy some would not.
Here in DFW most stores do not ADM,unless it is a hot hot car. We do not at all. With the arrival of RS4, we will only ask for MSRP (but put a sticker for 3000 dollar wheel locks. JUST KIDDING) but we will be firm on that pricing.
Where i
Certainly no spoilers or tacky pinstrips but we normally do install splash guards, door edge guards and the wheel lip mouldings. Very selsdom does anyone complain but when I offer to pull these items off, they usually want them thrown in for free!
If memory serves, the local Acura dealer puts a "protection pack" on all their cars for about $1200, consisting of floormats, splash guards, a pinstripe, and some type of permanent paint protection gimmick. That type of thing really turns me off as a potential buyer.
isell is.
bigdveedub is.
british_rover is.
but, out of curiosity, why do you ask?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
lemme put it this way ... since purchases other than cars have been mentioned here ... I don't go to a higher priced store for something I can get in a lower priced store. Wegman's can ask $10/lb. for goat cheese all they want, it just means I'm going to Foodtown where its $7. That applies for other things I negotiate on, too. If I'm buying furniture, I'm going to the lower-priced place and haggle with them because its less of a hassle to get $500 off than to go to the place that starts $1k higher and get $1500 off.
Is an ADM sticker MEANT to be an insult? Maybe not. IS it an insult? To someone like me, yes.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
are you insulted in the sameway when you walk into a retailer like Nordstroms and see the same pants you can buy at Macys for 40% more? I'm just curious because I don't really understand why it insults you? (I'm not trying to pick on you, I just don't get it)
If you were the kind of guy who paid the window sticker price I could understand getting a little ruffled but I just don't see you as a full boat laydown. LOL
Personally, I would never pay MSRP or over ....maybe within $1,000 (discount)like I did on my 2000 E430.... if they want list, I'll just wait until the price goes down.
Mark
When I bought my Nissan, I asked them to take the front license plate bracket off, and then "plug" the holes left (the car was a DX from out of state). They did a fine job, I signed the papers, and drove off.
I also bought a car once where they put the dealership sticker on the back. Again, I asked them to remove it.
In this respect, buying a car really isn't that much different than buying any other consumer item. If the product and salesman meet your needs and the price is right, do the deal. Otherwise, walk away. Hand wringing and being "insulted" only makes your life more difficult.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well, as I said, I won't shop at Nordstroms, just like I won't shop at a dealership with higher prices.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I may have been exaggerating a bit when I said i'm "insulted" by adm stickers ...
in any case, i won't just make an offer because I feel if a store has an ADM sticker, they are going to be more difficult to deal with. So why should I start haggling with them when I can walk down the street to the guy without ADM and start my negotiations from a lower baseline?
Let me ask those who are OK with ADM stickers a question:
If you are shopping for a used car and you spot 2 identical cars with identical miles and exactly the same distance from your home ... would you go try to buy the one that is priced $2k higher? Of course not. Sure, they are exactly the same value, but why go through the trouble of trying to get one person to drop their price $2k further than the other? There's just no need.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
There is enough Land Rover Kit in the catalogue to increase the MSRP of any vehicle by 10,000 dollars or more and anything you add to a car needs to have a sticker in the window saying what the increased price of the vehicle is.
This is true even if we are just using the kit for display. We had a big expedition style roof rack on a LR3 in the showroom that we were using for display. We had a bunch of bags strapped down to it and it looked pretty cool. I could take the whole thing off in about 5 minutes with just a nut driver since we did not have it truly secured for driving.
That roof rack costs 2,000 dollars and we did not have a sticker on the LR3 saying that it cost 2,000 dollars and the price of this car with the rack would really be $55,395 not $53,395. Well land Rover came by on one of their audits saw we did not have the sticker and deducted three points from our overall score.
I have a price in mind and as long as we are reasonably close, I'm ok with that.
I could care less if you want to charge me 1500 for a "protection package" as long as it still fits within the number I have budgeted for the car.
As long as we agree on the bottom line OTD price and I understand and we mutually agree as to how that number was achieved, I'm good. maybe I'm crazy?!?!
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
Rover,
Thats an addendum, but that is not a ADM addendum, because you are adding a goodie to the car. Most of the people here are talking about the upcharge for market adjustment.
Brings up an interesting off topic point... how many of you know that Nordstrom's MATCHES the prices for lower class stores like Macy's!? YES, you can get the nice service and selection of Nordstrom's for Sear's/Macy's/wherever prices. Try it! Cars are basically the same. Doesn't matter what dealer, where they are located or what sticker is on the window. Offer what you want to pay and you would be surprised how many dealers will negotiate.
P.S. Yes, I really think Macy's is lower class. I worked there during college... and always got compliments on my NORSTROM's clothes I would wear!
nope. its not just you. but if your research shows a car should be $5k below sticker and a dealer is telling you they charge $2k over sticker ... well, i'll go out on a limb here and say that you have a slim to zero chance of making a deal with that dealership. So why waste your time when the guy next door starts off at a more realistic asking price?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I didn't know ... but I also don't care. Alot of places have price-matching type gimicks. But, again, why bother? Why should I go through the trouble of bringing in an ad, going to the customer service desk, etc, when I can just go to the cheaper place to begin with?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Everybody markets their stuff (cars or whatever) differently. Just because a dealer has a ridicilous adm doesn't mean they won't sell for the best price in the area. The BMW dealer near my house puts 10-30% mark up on every car. Just amazing "asking" prices. Some people may pay it. I know several people, including myself, who have done extensive shopping but found THE best deal in all of Cali right there at our local high adm dealer! You don't KNOW unless you try. Good luck with all your shopping.
Sorry to remain off topic, but.... Nobody said you have to bring ads or anything. That's the beauty of a place like Nordstrom's. It's so far superior. Just ASK. Where would I rather shop? Store that is busy, with long lines, low paid and not knowledgeable staff, crowded aisles with too much merchandise... or a store with classy employees, knowledgable of their product, short lines, good product selection in nice atmosphere!???? Try it.
the point I've been trying to make is that a dealer with ADM on all their stuff is a dealer that won't get my business. Its just the way it is. Call me proud, call me stubborn, whatever ... i know my wife does ... but there are certain things in life that just get under my skin and I refuse to support them in any way.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It just depends on your local market. For example, I'm in a large southern metro area and lets say I'm in the market for a black Accord. I find one, but we are $500 apart in price. I'll walk on this one because there are probably at least a 8-10 more Honda dealers I can shop within the metro area.
Now lets say I'm interested in a black Subaru Outback and we are $500 apart. Now for my market, my leverage is limited because there are only 3 Subie dealerships in the area. So I would need to consider my figures a little closer.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
the point I've been trying to make is that a dealer with ADM on all their stuff is a dealer that won't get my business. Its just the way it is. Call me proud, call me stubborn, whatever ... i know my wife does ... but there are certain things in life that just get under my skin and I refuse to support them in any way.
You are a refreshingly honest person. "I am stubborn so that's it." I like that and won't try to convince you otherwise. Most people don't realize when they are stubborn. I agree that I don't like that pricing style but it's the closest BMW dealer so I still buy there. Peace
You need to go back and read the Purchasing Strategies thread. You couldn't be more wrong.
Sorry, but that's a negotiation error. The Subaru dealers aren't just competing with one another, but with every other car dealer.
From the standpoint of market competition and haggling the best deal, you need to approach it from the perspective that there are a wide number of choices available to you, whether they are made by Subaru or otherwise.
The dealer has to believe that you are willing to walk, and to purchase a whole host of alternatives aside from what he has to sell. (Better still, you should be able to convey the idea that you don't need to buy anything at all.) The more married that you are to a specific badge or a nameplate, the more you are likely to overpay for it.
I buy from the retailer who makes the best impression on me and treats me the most professionally. The starting price plays no role in my purchase decisions.
Just for everyones info...I do not have adm stickers on any of our cars.
And it goes without saying that the dealer should absolutley believe you are considering any number of makes.
I'm not one of these that walks onto a lot with stars in my eyes, checkbook in one hand, pen in the other.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
They will put clear bras on their cars and charge stupid money for them or put wood kits in all the LR3's and charge 300-500 dollars more then it really costs to put it on.
i'm with au1994. And I'd wager any enthusiast would be, as well. We want what we want. Settling for 2nd place is like kissing your sister.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
No, I really don't. You and I have been there, done that, I've had my posts deleted, and I have the soundtrack and t-shirt. We don't agree on what is the best way to do business. End of story.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
To a point thats true, they are in competition with other dealers if the customer sees their cars as viable alternatives. Say I am at the Subaru dealer looking for a AWD wagon for under $23K, not many other places I can go for that. Yet if I just want a station wagon for under $23K then I have more alternatives.
Then there are those who will only buy one make of car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Unless the car is very hot, there are generally ample inventories for most nameplates. A dealer's job is to sell the inventory on his lot, because the sooner that he sells it, the more that he earns.
If a dealer needs to move inventory, it really doesn't matter whether he has one or ten direct competitors -- he still needs to move that car off of his lot (and he would prefer to do that as soon as possible.) The salesman would also like to sell you that car, because he makes nothing if you buy something else somewhere else, or for that matter, from a different salesman at his own dealership.
Just so long as there are plenty of Subie Outbacks on that guys lot in comparison to the demand for them in that market, you can get a low price for that car, regardless. You're only going to pay more because you've convinced yourself that you need to before you've set foot in the place. Of course, the dealer will happily pocket that premium, but you could have paid less.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
see above posts from snakeweasel and qbrozen.
I'm done. We don't see things the same way and are not going to change each others mind. No blood, no foul.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha