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Comments

  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,722
    then you need to revamp your haggling skills,if you know how to do it.

    Well, when you're buying a vehilce every 3-4-6 years, that may be difficult to do. Practice makes perfect, so for the average person who doesn't "negotiate" for a living it may be a little more difficult than you are letting onto.

    A lot of it comes down to ones personality and comfort level...as like you have stated on several occasions, negotiating is "like a game". But, to do well at the "game"...one should enjoy playing it. Like a "Basic" computer programming flowchart, there are hundereds of things a salesman can do or say to throw you off your gameplan. An experienced negotiator, or someone comfortable with the process, can deflect these type of questions and stick to their gameplan. The less experienced or easily frazzled, may get lost.

    I think a bobst or bcmalibu strategy will get you pretty close to a good/fair price. So, if one does not like the negotiation process, the "hassle", or "the dealership not making a fair profit", it would be a good way to go.
  • socala4socala4 Posts: 2,427
    I think a bobst or bcmalibu strategy will get you pretty close to a good/fair price. So, if one does not like the negotiation process, the "hassle", or "the dealership not making a fair profit", it would be a good way to go.

    I agree with that, I'm just trying to point out that it is a lot easier than most people seem to think, and that most people don't give themselves enough credit about how well they could do it. As long as you have the toolkit, you can adjust your tactics to match your own personal style -- it's simply a roadmap to follow, but you can vary the specifics to match your own personality.

    I gave a couple of examples on the other thread, one including myself when I was just a college student, and another with a friend of mine with minimal negotiation experience who simply got a bit of coaching from me, because I wanted to illustrate how even a novice can do it. A lot of negotiation has nothing to do with money or business, it's really more of a study of human behavior, a bit like people watching, but with dollars being used to determine your score.

    And the negotiation tactics learned from car shopping can be used in many other areas of your life, whether it comes to buying furniture, negotiating your salary package or even dealing with your kids and dating. These are not just specific business skills, they are living skills that you can use just about every day. Learn them well, and you will save both large sums of money and gain other tools that will help you throughout your life. (And it won't be necessary to go to the dealership with a chip on the shoulder if you know how to have fun with it.)
  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    ---I would feel cheap spending a few hours haggling over a hundred bucks or free oil changes for a year.

    If you feel cheap, the problem is with your outlook, not with the negotiation process. ---

    Everyone who posts on this board will "value" a $100 differently. To some this is a considerable amount of money, and to others it is "loose change"

    If someone is fortunate eneough to find that leaving a $100 on the table is "no bid deal" then by no means do I think that is "a problem with your outlook" as you stated.

    It is merely, his economic outlook.

    We often heard stories of Micheal Jordon dropping $25,000 on a round of golf, bets, etc. It sounds surreal. But he was making 60+ million a year, which that bet to a guy making $100,000 a year is equal to $40.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The experienced here, on both sides, will attest that getting the 'best' price is not very difficult at all. Some basic investigations balanced with good common sense will get everyone into the same envelope so to speak.

    Investigations on Invoice pricing, newspaper ads, market reviews, classifieds ( used cars ), radio/TV and word of mouth ( very very important ) will give a buyer a good sense of the price of vehicles in a given market ( another key point ). Then there are interest rates, sources of financing, extended warranties, etc to be investigated. With all this done beforehand...

    Common sense then comes into play in being realistic with one's self.
    Can I afford the Denali and still eat?
    Do I have an idea of how downpayment, interest rates and term interact?
    Am I going to 'take a shot' to get a killer deal or do I want/have to have one to drive home today?
    What features do I have to have and which do I want but can do without?
    Is this vehicle easily attainable or very limited? ( see above )
    Am I comfortable negotiating ( enjoy negotiating? ) or will I feel overrun and wish to let someone else do it?

    Before I entered this business I negotiated everything from suits to dinners to ticket to airline seating to autos to fruit in markets. Then I became Sales Mgr/VP huge steel company where every transaction for 20 yrs was a negotiation - all over the world. In buying a car frankly it didnt matter if the next person did $200 or $500 better than I or worse than I. If I felt comfortable with the price offered, I bought it.

    Now I do the selling and there's no difference really. The easiest transactions are with the well-informed and the self-confident. It's a snap because both parties immediately recognize that the other is informed and capable. The price is normally fair and the transaction often is finished within 15 min.
  • Well put! Exactly! When people come uneducated, it makes the process so much more difficult. Its funny, when people come in to Audi, they think think we are just a little bit more expensive than VW and I had one gentleman who wanted to lease an A8 for around $700.00 a month!!! Total opposite, client, was a young man who was interested in an A3 and we were working on this deal forever looking for a particular car and when we decided on an order, He said "I have done my research and I know that these things on average are going for $500 off sticker. Even though I am ordering a can I still get that deal?" Of course. I rather work hard on a deal that I know that will be a mini with someone who in his/her negotiations makes sense, then someone who is going in all willy nilly having and just naming a price on the top of his head.
  • mark156mark156 Posts: 2,006
    BcMalibu99ls, I know there are websites for car prices, etc, but you will never know exactly what a dealer is paying for a vehicle. I'm not even considering the additional costs of lights, gas, phone, other utilities, insurance, payroll, building costs, etc, etc.... When that car leaves the manufacturer and arrives at the dealer with a "cost" from the factory, we will never know what that true cost is because we will never be able to "tap" in to any agreements that the owners have approved. The laundry list is huge...(volume selling, additional manufacturer to dealer discounts, and many more that I wouldn't even know that name of).

    I'm not sure why you were comparing furniture, appliances, etc, when responding to me, I mentioned in my post that I was in the retail business and no one could possibly know my discounts and incentives that I received from my distributors, and they probably didn't care. :P

    Mark :D
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    you either sold or a customer had installed, that you just shook your head and thought, how are they ever going to resell this car?
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    you either sold or a customer had installed, that you just shook your head and thought, how are they ever going to resell this car?

    I bought an Audi A4, and I had to order my car the way I wanted it. I had a crazy mix of options that aren't typically found together that would make it virtually un-sellable. But I was leasing, so I didn't care! The salesman was trying reeeeally hard to take me out of it! ;)

    I got the 1.8T engine, 5-spd manual trans, leatherette with manual seats, (but NO sport package), Bose sound system with 6-CD changer, xenon headlights, heated front and rear seats, headlamp washers, and (here's the kicker) NO SUNROOF! I had sunroofs in previous cars and never used them. In fact, I always even closed the shade. I couldn't see paying over $1000 for something I'd never use. In any event, I'm sure the dealer was thrilled to get that oddball at the end of the lease.... :P
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,458
    Land Rovers don't have many options so nothing in the way of factory options but I have some odd ball accessories people have installed.

    Side steps on a range rover sport when the truck is only about 3 inches above the ground when lowered as much as possible.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Yeah, that Audi would be about saleproof as a used car.

    I think the worst option is a "gold kit" especally when they put on one of those hokey gold plated grills.

    Yuck!
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    , and (here's the kicker) NO SUNROOF! I had sunroofs in previous cars and never used them. In fact, I always even closed the shade. I couldn't see paying over $1000 for something I'd never use. In any event, I'm sure the dealer was thrilled to get that oddball at the end of the lease

    Feel the same way about sunroofs. We never use them, always keep the shade closed to keep sun off of head. It would be interesting to know how many other people feel the same way.

    Over the years, car models we wanted most always came with a sunroof so we got stuck with something we did not want in order to get other features/options that were part of the car model. Two of our present vehicles have sunroofs which we never use.

    Remember shopping for and test driving Maxima SE in late 90's. The Nissan brochure said that the sunroof was optional, but the salespersons at the dealers we visited said we couldn't get that way with the SE configuration we wanted.
  • mark156mark156 Posts: 2,006
    I've had sunroofs in every car since my 1984 Peugeot 505 STI, and I use them all of the time! My favorite time is in the evening when the sun has gone down. Sometimes I will use the air-conditioning and have the sunroof open for extra fresh air.

    Also, I can't imagine have manual seats. I like to change my seat position all the time, especially if I'm driving on a road trip. My bottom would get numb if I didn't change my seat. :blush:

    I agree with Isell 100%, I absolutely can not stand the "gold" package on any car! Actually, I like cars to be VERY factory. The only thing that "might" be ok are chrome wheels but they have to be exactly the design as the factory wheel. Other than that, factory all of the way! :P

    Mark :D
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    I am spoiled and now "need" the sun roof. I am sure one day I will talk myself into a convertable.

    I shake my head at the "gold" package as well. Or my favorite is the spoiler that just doesnt belong on "that" car.

    I remember when I was looking at the sebrings when the first came out in 1995 and the sales man was pushing me to get a spoiler installed, the even had 2 on the lot with them. It just looked insane.
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    I was recently given cause to shudder when I saw one of those fake fabric tops on both a new Cadillac and a Chrysler 300. One was green over metallic blue! However, I've never seem them fitted to imports.

    Both vehicles were driven by by an older generation than mine, and I'm never going to die young. ;)
  • lmp180psulmp180psu Posts: 393
    I saw a Lincoln Zephyr with a black fabric top, over a muddy brown paint color...yuck. That car is ugly enough as it is (especially the rear), but a fabric top is awful. I don't understand why people would by a Zephyr over a Mercury Milan. They have the same engine, plus the Milan is $5K-10K less!! The interior can't be worth that much over a Milan!!
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    I was recently given cause to shudder when I saw one of those fake fabric tops on both a new Cadillac and a Chrysler 300. One was green over metallic blue! However, I've never seem them fitted to imports.

    Both vehicles were driven by by an older generation than mine, and I'm never going to die young.


    Good god, those cloth tops on the "big boat" cars (Cadillacs, Lincolns, Grand Marq/Crown Vic, etc) are HORRENDOUS!

    I actually made a deal with my wife regarding this.... If I ever buy one of those, she has the go-ahead to just end my life right then and there. At that point, I would clearly be beyond hope. :P

    In return, I get to put her out of her misery if she ever wears one of those old-lady plastic bags on her head when it's raining. :P
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Good god, those cloth tops on the "big boat" cars (Cadillacs, Lincolns, Grand Marq/Crown Vic, etc) are HORRENDOUS!

    This is just a part of diversity that is so rich in our country that we should respect and embrace. Different strokes for...
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    Different strokes for...

    True, but I think there's little doubt that additional gold trim and padded roofs will add nothing to the resale value, and may well detract from it.
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    "True, but I think there's little doubt that additional gold trim and padded roofs will add nothing to the resale value, and may well detract from it."

    Oh, you never know. Kind of like that commercial where the guy puts his old lime green hatchback on the internet, and they show the guy sitting at his computer discovering that there is a lime green hatchback for sale and getting excited.

    I was on vacation a couple of years ago, and an older lady parks her white Grand Marquis with black cloth top and gold accents in the beach club parking lot. I wanted to laugh when another older couple proceeded to walk over and compliment how sharp that car looked.
  • sbell4sbell4 Posts: 446
    I just dont understand when someone wants wheels that are sometimes 10% of the cost of the vehicle that they are buying.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    Same reason someone wants to carry every song ever recorded around with them.

    Because they can.
  • au1994au1994 GAPosts: 1,613
    I always get a good laugh when I see 5 grand worth of tires and wheels on a $1500 Impala.

    Reminds me of the old saying about a fool and his money...

    2019 Subaru Crosstrek Limited Venetian Red over Black
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    In the late 70's we test drove a Nissan, or maybe it was a Datsun, 240 SX, a small car with a hatchback.

    It had a button on the dash that said "Rear Wipe".

    I didn't try it out, but I guess it could have been useful if you had an 'accident' while driving or if you had to leave home in a rush before you had time to attend to matters.

    The newer cars don't have that exact option, so I suppose that technology has been lost in the sands of time.
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    "It had a button on the dash that said "Rear Wipe".

    I didn't try it out, but I guess it could have been useful if you had an 'accident' while driving or if you had to leave home in a rush before you had time to attend to matters."

    ...Or after having a close call with another motorist...or for passengers like myself when I am riding shotgun with my wife.
  • gussguss Posts: 1,181
    you are not right in the head. :)

    Did you also think the ABS light somehow gave you a six pack ?
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Posts: 1,828
    Good god, those cloth tops on the "big boat" cars (Cadillacs, Lincolns, Grand Marq/Crown Vic, etc) are HORRENDOUS!

    If you think thay are bad on THOSE vehicles, I used to see a LOT of them on the Tempo/Topaz models in Detroit.

    My feeling is that if you are going to "pimp" a Topaz, why not just move up to a Taurus.
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    ...was one of the worst cars ever put into production. IMHO. Adding a fake top should trigger an arrest by the fashion police.
  • mazda6iguymazda6iguy Posts: 365
    I remember back in the late 70's or very early 80's at a Cadillac dealership seeing a Fleetwood Brougham on the showroom floor with a set of Uniroyal Royal Seal tires and thinking that they looked really gaudy at the time. The white stripes were too wide, and I think they had a thin gold stripe on them too.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    I don't see too many of these here in Colorado, so I was quite surprised to see a Mercury Sable with the 'faux landau' roof on it while on my way to work earlier this week.

    Quite a sight!
  • mazda6iguymazda6iguy Posts: 365
    A couple days ago I saw a PT Cruiser tricked out with 'Gangster' whitewalls.
This discussion has been closed.