Stories from the Sales Frontlines

mac24

I'd like to think that a typical Edmunds buyer is informed but realistic. Maybe I'm hoping for too much?

jmurman42

From my perspective...I work with 100% Internet customers, they are all very similar.

They have done their research, some more than others, and know what the invoice of the car is vs. MSRP. When thsi customer is presented with a complete pricing up front, the results are pretty strong.

We treat the sale as a simple transaction, and it has worked well for us over the past 5 years. When I first started this Dept we did 35 cars the first year. Last year we did 400.

michaellno

I'd like to think that a typical Edmunds buyer is informed but realistic.

I think you hit the nail on the head .. any informed buyer (whether they get their information from Edmunds or somewhere else) is going to have a much better idea of a real world transaction price for the new car.

There still may be negiotiations, but probably not as much 'back and forth', since the informed buyer will start out at a more reasonable number.

From what I've heard from the sales folks on this list, they would prefer an informed buyer any day of the week, as they save time as well.

cluedweasel

When I was in the business, I loved dealing with the informed "Edmunds" buyers. No "I want a $30000 car for $20000" or "I want to pay 0 down and $250 a month for a new FX45". The transaction times would be short and then we could all get on with our day.

mazda6iguy

I'm not sure where to ask this, but maybe here is ok. I am wondering when the new Aveo's will be in the dealerships? The new 2007 models?

british_rover

I actually got several but I am waiting to see how they end up.

So today this guy calls me who came in a few days previously on a Range Rover Sport. I made it clear when he first came that we do not Discount Range Rover Sports period. We only have two one being Supercharged trim and the other a HSE trim.

When he came in he made a big point about saying how serious a buyer he was and that he was going to buy one this week as long as the price was right. Well the price is MSRP and you will get a few hundred dollars in free accessories and you can pick some Land Rover gear but there are no discounts.

He says that he has been to another dealer and they gave him a number for his trade that he won't share with me and a discount on the car that he again won't share with me. They have his first choice color and I have his second. I tell him to come down with his trade and see what we can do. I also know from the get go that this is pointless.

I will throw in 500 or so dollars in Land Rover Kit on my own with out getting approval from anyone and a shirt/hat combo or some other form of Land Rover Gear as well.

He is trying to pull every single trick in the book.

Him: He tries the, "This car is really for my father and his english is not so good so I will translate everything for him." Now maybe his dad doesn't really speak english but I have seen this trick several times now and take it with a grain of salt.

Him: The well the car you have is really my second choice color but for the right price I will buy it trick.

Him: The dealer down in the southern part of the state would give me 1,500 dollars off on the Supercharged sport.

Me: Really they are going to discount a car that they only have one of?

Him: Well the guy said it had been on the lot for three months now so they needed to discount it some and he had a few of them.

(Side note: I can see every Land Rover dealers inventory online so I know how many of each car they have and how long they have been in inventory. I know that the dealer he is talking about only has one car and it has been there just a couple of weeks. I also know that every other dealer any where near us has presold every supercharged sport in the color he "wants.")

I give him his trade number which I know he will be unhappy with. It is about 1,500 under what he claims the other dealer gave him and he pulls out the auction reports to prove that we are low.

I pull out the very same auction reports that tell me what the miles are on the various cars and none of them have as many miles as his car.

I show him that in the area DEALERS are asking only a few hundred more dollars then what he wants us to give him in trade.

If someone is going to have turn around and ask $19,995 for a car on the retail side they are going to have pay a lot less then that for it now matter where they get it from.

Now was he telling the truth at all?

Maybe. But the number that the other dealer gave him for trade was at least 1,500 dollars more then the car was really worth and might have been 2,000 dollars more. It makes no sense that they would discount a car that they can't get only about 1,200 supercharged Range Rover Sports will be imported for the whole year and our dealership won't get another one till July. A big volume dealer might have enough on the ground to offer a small discount say $750 or $1,000 but not the $3,000 to $3,500 of real discount he was supposedly getting.

british_rover

They will import about 2,200 Supercharged Range Rover Sports into the US this year not 1,200. Only about 1,200 Supercharged Range Rovers, the 90,000 plus dollar full size model, will be imported to the US.

capitano

Did Mack ever finish his multipart sales story from 2 years ago?

dino001

Did you adjust your expectations, too? How? Were your opening offers significantly lower? Were your trade offers better? Did you come to agreement faster?

jasmith52

This story just reminds me of a typical deal where the customer wants to grind a bit.

nycarsalesman

I've been selling cars for a few years now. I work at a small town multi-franchised GM/Chrysler dealership. I don't have a F&I dept. I do everthing myself paperwork, sales, finance, insurance, etc. etc. Anyway, I'm just wondering how my pay compares to others. It is as follows:
Base Pay: $160/week
Commission:
$100/new car (regardless of profit)
20% on used cars after a $500 pack and service/detail bills. Typically I make about $200/used car
$50/if I make 1% mark up on financing
No Commission on accessories and such

Also, we have a draw on commission system if I don't sell a car in a given week I take a $110 draw that I owe back when I sell another car ( they have to appear to be paying me min. wage for 40 hours a week even though I work more like 60 hrs.)

So how does this compare?

jmurman42

The rule of thumb in the car business is what you made on a yearly basis.

Sounds like your dealere is definately getting the better end of the deal.

danf1

How many cars do you sell in an average month? I hope it is a lot, because that doesn't sound like a nice pay plan for you. I'm sure its nice for your owner though.

nycarsalesman

I'm in a small rural area so I sell 6-16 cars a month. What would be a typical pay plan be for someone in my situation? Basically, I'm considering switching to an import dealership but I want to know what to expect as a reasonable pay plan.

british_rover

I am not going to complain about my pay plan anymore cause it could be much worse.

We had a whole discussion of pay plans a couple of months ago just look farther back.

danf1

It sounds like if you had a great month (16 used cars financed), that you could make $4,000. You probably don't do that often. To give you an idea, I've got 2 salespeople who averaged 16 Hyundais per month last year. Working on commission they both made around $75,000. That includes unit bonuses, manufacturer payouts etc.... Polish up that resume and start making some money.

nycarsalesman

I guess it looks like my pay plan could be better. I'm really looking to eventually get into Mgmt./F&I. I previously worked as a service advisor, oh and I have a Master's degree. Any ideas on what steps are necessary to make the move from floor sales to management? My long term goal is to become a dealer principle but it seems a long way away from here.

cccompson

Ah, that would be "dealer principal."

bdr127

So today this guy calls me who came in a few days previously on a Range Rover Sport..... When he came in he made a big point about saying how serious a buyer he was and that he was going to buy one this week as long as the price was right. Well the price is MSRP and you will get a few hundred dollars in free accessories and you can pick some Land Rover gear but there are no discounts.....

....Now was he telling the truth at all?

Well, I'm sure you already know this, but.... If he is still wasting spending time with you, then it means one of two things:

1) He wants your car, and is lying/embellishing to try and get a better deal on it.

2) He wants your competitor's car, and is using you to get a number to take to the other dealer to get a better deal... and he could be lying/embellishing to get a better deal on it.

:P

Just be flat-out blunt with him --- Either take our car at this price with this trade-in price, or go buy the one at the other dealer.... End of conversation. If he persists, then chances are he really wants your car.

british_rover

Oh I was just blunt with him. I told him he would have to pay full MSRP for our car and we would give him 15,000 for his car. He was just flabergasted and tried to pull out auction reports from the local auction to proof his car was worth more and then went as far as to say the aftermarket accesories, Brush bar/driving lights/roof rack/running boards etc., on his car made it worth even more then the auction reports.

He just was not using the auction reports right though and there was no way to convince him otherwise. He was saying that his car should be worth the average of all the other cars which was about 17,400. That would have been ok if his car was average but it had $15,000 more miles then any other car in the list. The car was an outlier and no amount of worthless aftermarket stuff was going to change that.

I can find out if he bought the car at the other dealer because I know the VIN of the car he is looking at. If that car drops off the online inventory in the next couple of days then I will just punch the VIN into warranty recall and see who the listed owner is.

nyccarguy

What were the particulars of his trade in?

corvette

If he's so confident that his car is worth what he says it is, why doesn't he just sell it himself? (I think you've already called his bluff more than once, so that might not do any good, either.)

lrguy44

I just had a similer story, but all by phone. Guy calls and wants to discuss normally asperated, non LUX car. Told him over 3 calls price is MSRP. The last time I talk to him he said he had a deal and a deposit at one of the metro dealers. I told him congrats, and if he can get a deal elsewhere he should buy it. So 2 weeks later he is a sales call again and another salesmen gets it. To make a long story short he puts a deposit on a non LUX non cold climate package Sport that we have to trade a Lux Cold Climate car for. hen the car come in he says he is ready to negotiate the price. When reminded that he has been told by 2 sales people that the price is MSRP he bails and leavesus with a tough car to sell here.

grandtotal

I thought that's what non-refundable deposits were for.

lrguy44

I would agree, but management actually refuded his deposit for "good will"

british_rover

He had a 2003 QX4(Inifniti Version of the pathfinder)4wd
A little over 67,000 miles on it.
Leather, moonroof, tow package, no nav Gray outside with gray inside. NO Navigation

New tires somewhat new brakes little scuff on rear bumber big scratch on passenger side rear door that was down to the metal. Slightly higher then normal wear for a three year old car since it had so many miles.

Interior was a little rough floor mats were most likely stained beyond redmption and even the carpet underneath had a few stains that would probably come out. Blue marks on the leather of the drivers and passengers front seat that looked like pen stains. Faded leather on the drivers side armrest probably from a very sweaty elbow.

Roof rack, brush bar, driving lights and running boards all aftermarket that add no value to the car at all but he thought was worth at least a thousand dollars.

Car drove ok but rattled a lot. Was one of the loosest Pathfinder/QX4s I have ever driven. Car fax was clean and I didn't see any evidence of a wreck but they guy is a contractor so maybe all the rattles are from driving around construction sites.

tsgeisel

On the lighter side of things - what's the fastest someone's driven on an "official" test drive?

And just generally, what's something you've seen that nobody but another salesman would believe happened.

Had one salesman tell me about how he misjudged his customer, and let him take the wheel while legally intoxicated. The ice plants got a little messed up, eventually, and the guy ran off, but the car was ok, nobody hurt, and they eventually caught up with the driver...

I think I've also been the "fastest" driver for a couple of salesmen, at about 85...

raybear

When I was selling BMW's I had a guy hit 110 in heavy traffic...told him to pull over and let me out or I'd charge him with kidnapping if I didn't strangle him first. He pulled over and I took the car back to the dealership and told him to get the hell out.

thenebean

a female colleague of mine when i worked at the dealership was telling me how she went on a test drive with a guy, and halfway around the test loop started saying some really disgusting and inappropriate things. she made him get out. she got in, locked the doors, and left him out there by himself! ha ha ha!

isellhondas

I woulgn't have let you get away with that. No reason to drive that fast!

div2

Back in 1992 a friend of mine and I stopped in at a southern BMW dealership where I found a clean 1988 M6. My friend knew one of the salesman and a test drive was quickly set up. The salesperson jumped behind the wheel, fired it up, and explained that he would drive it until it was properly warmed up-and that he knew a place where the car could be driven properly. To this day, I don't know where we ended up. All I know is that it was a narrow, country lane that wound through an area where Deliverance II could have been filmed. Meanwhile, trusty salesperson (TS) was blasting the M6 down this road like ten bats out of hell. Four wheel opposite lock drifts around blind corners, and every shift at the redline. I hung on, quietly meditating on the "Where Will YOU Spend Eternity?" sign we had recently passed at 97 mph. Finally, it was my turn to drive. Now, I have scared my share of salespeople in my day, but I knew I was beaten. TS even tried to encourage me to pick up the pace. Anyway, when we rolled back onto the lot my friend mentioned that he smelled the brakes. From about two blocks away. "Nah," said TS, "it's just the paint burning off the new resonator." Right.
I bought the car a week later.

ateixeira

Hopefully not that exact car, which he seems to have abused pretty well?

-juice

british_rover

I would have at least wanted new brakes on the car and probably new rubber too after that.

div2

Hopefully not that exact car, which he seems to have abused pretty well?


Yep, the same one, though I wouldn't call it abused-just driven hard. I tracked and autocrossed the car quite a bit and nothing ever broke. In any event, the car is now in the hands of an obsessive-compulsive originality freak. He removed the Dinan chip and reinstalled the catalytic converter(which cost him @45 hp). Worse still, he put the horrible TRX tires back on the car. I used the sled to humiliate Mustang GTs and the odd 911 at the Stoplight Grand Prix. Now I doubt the car could keep ahead of a V6 Camry...

rworrell

div2--I always see reference to the TRX tires as awful, but nobody ever says why--what's the problem with them? Did I read somewhere that the wheels are an unusual size and only the Michelin (?) TRX tires will fit on them? Any scoop? Thanks!

michaellno

When they were first introduced (back in the mid-80's, IIRC) they were unique in that they used only metric measurements, not only for the tread width, but for the tire size as well.

My understanding is that they would fit on a 15" or 16" wheel, but they would need some 'adjustments' to do so. Not sure if that voided the warranty, but I can't imagine that it was too good for the tire.

They really required a special metric wheel which wasn't widely available at the time - I remember that Ford used the TRX tires on both the Mustang SVT as well as the T-Bird of that era as well, and reading reviews that the odd wheel size was an issue.

As for the tire itself, I don't remember if they were good or bad, but the sizing issue sure made them pretty unpopular.

larryallen707

Went into the local Acura dealer on Saturday morning here in Sacramento. My wife and I are mid 30's, driving a Nissan Sentra, two babies in tow, and all dressed for a relaxing Saturday (I hadn't shaved in a couple days, etc....). We were looking at the MDX (SUV- $40k or so). Salesman had NO TACT in trying to determine if we could afford the car. Within 5 minutes, "are you sure this is a car that can fit into your budget...." Then he continued trying to peg our means by talking about our car, "what is that a Sentra... what other cars do you have?" He then made it clear he wanted us to leave by body language primarily. It was 10:00 AM, there were no other customers but he made it clear he had other things to do than waste time with us. We left as he was offensive and he was too canned also (just recited info that he heard at sales meeting like he was a recording). I understand you can't waste time with lookie-loos who can't afford a car. Turns out, the Sentra were were driving was a rental because we sold our 2001 Suburban last week, I am an attorney making $200k, I paid cash for my 2005 G35 coupe last year, etc.... I was looking at the NSX, parked next to the MDX, not just with stars in my eyes as I really COULD afford that too if I wanted. Bottom line, he mis-read us and LOST a sale as we bought the MDX last night from another salesman at same dealership. We never mentioned him by name so I assume he did not get piece of the deal. Just a reminder to sales people to be careful judging your buyers!

jwilliams2

TRX tires only fit the special metric sized wheel. It would be suicide to try to mount one on a 15" or 16" wheel. These came standard on a BMW 535i I purchased back in 1986, and the only tire company that made the tires was Michelin at the time. You were limited to them when it came to replacements. And they were somewhat pricey as I recall. Good tires, though....

div2

TRX tires are designed to only fit metric size rims. The reason Michelin did that was because the TRX tire/bead interface is shaped differently-and fitting a TRX tire to a standard wheel(or vice versa) would be dangerous. TRX tires were decent tires in their day, but since then tire technology and performance has improved by leaps and bounds. When I swapped out the TRX tires for Bridgestone Expedias back in 1993 the difference in performance was astounding. Finally, TRX tires are now a special order item and when you do find them they are very expensive. You can get a much better tire for quite a bit less money.

au1994

simiar situation happened to me about 11 years ago when I bought my 1st new car.

I was 24 and looked younger, was a Sat. afternoon so I believe I had on shorts, t shirt and a baseball cap. I had to go inside and ask to be helped. No worries, got what I wanted and the salesman that helped me got a sale, even saved me $500 since I was a recent college grad.

Sounds like you handled it the right way, didn't blow up and voted with your $$$ with another salesman.

black_tulip

Just a reminder to sales people to be careful judging your buyers!

Well to them time is money, and probably experience has taught them that in nine out of ten cases, something is a duck if it quacks like one. That one lost sale is not enough justification to invest time in all ten cases.

perna

Well to them time is money, and probably experience has taught them that in nine out of ten cases, something is a duck if it quacks like one. That one lost sale is not enough justification to invest time in all ten cases.

It's not just that, but people who bring babies car shopping just SCREAM "I have nothing better to do with my time on a Saturday but drag my family to car dealerships so I can dream". As a father myself, there is no conceivable way I'd want to bring my 2 year old car shopping, let alone a pair of newborns. Talk about not being able to focus on the task at hand!

The auto show, on the other hand.. nothing like watching a nervous Porsche rep watch the aforementioned 2 year old tug on the (wisely locked) door to a brand new 911 chanting, "dada, open please?" :P

qbrozen

It's not just that, but people who bring babies car shopping just SCREAM "I have nothing better to do with my time on a Saturday but drag my family to car dealerships so I can dream". As a father myself, there is no conceivable way I'd want to bring my 2 year old car shopping, let alone a pair of newborns. Talk about not being able to focus on the task at hand!

Ya know, its funny, I used to think that before I had a kid. I now realize the double-edged sword here, though. How can I possibly get my wife's approval if she is at home with the child? I can't think of a salesperson who wouldn't get aggravated when I pull out the old "I'll have to check with my wife" excuse ... except its really not an excuse! She's at home because the same salesperson would get aggravated if I brought my family along! Quite the conundrum.

larryallen707

Quite the conundrum.

Exactly. We knew we were just checking the cars out and would be back later that day to test drive when we had the babysitter. Just trying to get the most out of our weekend as we really wanted to buy the car ASAP.

A lost sale is a lost sale in my opinion. However, I understand sales people need to make quick decisions so they don't waste time. I just think this sales person should have been less quick to judge since he had no other customers to help. What did he want to do? Go watch tv in the customer lounge?

ateixeira

In that situation we test drive it first, then take the kids for another visit to see how well they "fit" inside. Not just the kids, the stroller too.

I guess this is why 24 hour test drives make sense.

-juice

audia8q

when I pull out the old "I'll have to check with my wife" excuse ... except its really not an excuse! She's at home because the same salesperson would get aggravated if I brought my family along! Quite the conundrum

We have the answer to your conundrum ...Assuming the buyer is legit, we will gladly allow the buyer to take the vehicle to show his or her spouse..even without the salesperson. We do this a few times a week. There is actually a term for it...it's called the puppy dog close.

cccompson

And that takes this full circle - how do you tell if "the buyer is legit[?]"

Apparently, the first Acura salesman couldn't tell and second could.

perna

Ya know, its funny, I used to think that before I had a kid. I now realize the double-edged sword here, though. How can I possibly get my wife's approval if she is at home with the child?

Well, we've only bought one car since having a kid, but we just took a day off during the week to shop and drive. Saturdays are awful days to try to buy a car - finance gets backed up, etc... we test drove a couple cars in the morning, ate lunch, test drove a couple in the afternoon... then did the deal on the car she liked, and that was that. All in all, it was a lot of fun, even though she picked a vehicle I wasn't overly fond of (Ford Explorer).

IMO, it's like taking a child grocery shopping. It's a lot less stressful, and things move a lot quicker without 'em.

jasmith52

This story reminds me of one my friend told me. He had worked as a kid in his fathers business and saved up enough money to buy a Z-28 Camaro. He was only 18 years old at the time.

So the 18 year old kid goes into the showroom to special order his new Z-28. None of the salespeople were busy but evidently they had too much work to do and told the 18 year old to run along and don't bother us.

So the 18 year old kid goes to another dealer and finds an older salesman who took his order. The kid orders the car just how he wanted it and takes the first offer from the salesman - way over sticker.

the profit on that car probably matched or beat anything the salesman sold that month.

you just never know.

black_tulip

I just think this sales person should have been less quick to judge since he had no other customers to help.

That is odd...Saturday morning and an Acura dealer and nobody around? In my neck of the woods, they would be packed during that time. I am not taking his side, but I think he was expecting customers and did not want to get tied down with you.