Stories from the Sales Frontlines

black_tulip

you just never know.

For every 18 year old that can afford to pay over sticker, there are probably hundreds who would gladly waste a salesperson's time by joy riding. True, you do not know, but chances of landing a customer like that is miniscule. It is like gambling, you can either keep playing or you can invest the money ...

dino001

I read somewhere about investigative reporters going to dealerships dressed as lets call them "low class citizens" or even homeless (it was in Poland, but applies here, too). The treatment varied from suspicious looks to flat out violence. There was one exception: at one Volvo dealer, a salesman (perhaps even owner) gave him all attention, including even measuring some dimensions, showing color/upholstery options, etc. When asked eventually why he did that, he reportedly said: Sir, today you may be in distress, but who knows - perhaps tomorrow your fortune may change and I would like to think you'll come to me.

Not to mention a case when another hobo-looking guy comes to the place asks all the questions and at the end shells out real cash. You never know, but odds are definitely against.

rworrell

Thanks for all of the info, guys--very informative. I appreciate it!

snakeweasel

I worked at a small but very profitable manufacturing company 20+ years ago. The owner looked like Mr. Gower in the "alternate reality" of "its a Wonderful Life". Unkept slightly long hair sunken face usually needing a shave badly, very skinny and since he worked a lot hands on in the business end of the company he grungy dirty and stained work clothes. If you saw this guy walking towards you you would think he was going to ask you for a hand out.

Well one day he takes a long lunch to buy a Caddillac, of course looking like he does everyday. They kicked him out of the dealership. He came back so angry saying he was going to show them by buying the dealership and firing the whole lot of them.

qbrozen

There is actually a term for it...it's called the puppy dog close.

yes, there is that, and its a good way to do it. I just don't think its a widespread method, for some reason. I've only ever been offered that once in my car shopping life, and it was on a car I KNEW I couldn't afford and kept telling them I couldn't afford it, but they just didn't believe me. Go figure.

lemko

...about 17 years ago I wanted to buy a new 1989 Cadillac Brougham. I was only 24, but had a paid-off 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic for a trade and a significant amount of money for a down payment. One dealer I went to the well-dressed, but very snooty salesman gave me the brush-off like, "Don't waste my time, kid!" At another dealer, I met with a young woman who just started. She seemed to lack a bit of confidence, but went out of her way to show me the car, it's features, and allowed me to take it out on an extended test drive. I was so pleased, I gave this newbie the sale. I still have the car to this day and it is still in excellent condition.

perna

One dealer I went to the well-dressed, but very snooty salesman gave me the brush-off like, "Don't waste my time, kid!"

I live in the midwest where politeness reigns, but I did have an experience like this at a Honda dealer of all places. I'm one of these babyfaced people - I'm 32 and still get carded regularly for alcohol.

So, back when I was 22, some guy in a K-car totalled my Escort, so I went shopping. I was looking at a new Accord or Civic, can't remember which, and a salesdude came up. I expressed interest in test driving the car, and he said, "Sir, perhaps you'd be interested in viewing our used selection over here." I left, humiliated, and ended up buying a new Jetta (I'd have been a whole lot happier with a Honda, but say la vee and all that jazz).

I've always had a negative opinion of Honda cars, but I wonder if it's just that single dealership experience that colored my opinion of the entire brand. Ironically, I went into an Acura dealer only 4 years later (after I couldn't stomach the Jetta's self-destructive personality), and they treated me like the king's gold. Go figure.

ateixeira

A Honda dealer in MD told me we had to make an appt to test drive an Odyssey. To be fair, it was about 8:30pm and they closed at 9.

I think they've had a lot of popular vehicles over the years, and that makes them a little less eager to please. An understatement, I know.

-juice

dino001

but I remember a small but noticeable difference I once picked up - came into an empty Volvo store on Saturday morning, entered the lot from behind the building, so they did not see my WRX. They would not come on the lot for 5 minutes even after my obvious staring on the stickers and interiors, I had to come into the store. The conversation I had was polite and everything, but so distant (I told them right awaay I was windowshopping for now, but needed some details on the car and Overseas Delivery program) that after I left I realized the guy saw me as a complete stroke and jockster. I was trully interested in future possibility of the purchase, just "not today". No biggy really, but no attempts of a test drive, no usual questions one would ask if they saw a potential customer.

All other stores I visited so far (Saab, Audi, Subaru) were just a little bit better, starting with the guy meeting me at their lot and acting like he was trully interested in me. I think the difference was in the car - at Volvo they did not see it, others - they did.

jasmith52

Last year I had intended to buy a BMW 7 series for my wife. Well one Saturday we were running errands so I was just wearing a T-shirt and blue jeans and the wife was also dressed very casual.

So we walk into the BMW lot to look around at several of the cars. Nobody came up to greet us. So we wander inside, again nobody greeted us. So we looked at a few cars on the showroom floor. We wanted some help so we walk up to a salesman behind his desk and asked him for help. He was very annoyed with us for "bothering him". I guess we didn't look like the typical BMW customer.
He finally said something like - "Are you worthy of a BMW". My wife and I looked at each other and I said - "What". He repeated - "Are you worthy".

I was pretty irritated with this clown but said - yes we are worthy. He then said that he didn't think so, and would therefore not help us. We figured that this guy was an idiot and went over to another desk across the showroom floor and began talking to a different salesman. Well after about 30 seconds the phone rings on his desk. We believe it was the first salesman calling the second salesman. After the phone call he was also very condescending towards us. He actually told us to go look at Toyotas. We said - No we are here to look at a 7-series BMW. He then said that's a good one - now run along and don't bother us.

We couldn't believe the treatment that we were getting. So we moved away from this jerk and were looking at one of the cars in the showroom. I opened up the car and invited my wife to sit in the car. After I opened up the door to the car the first salesman came running over and said - "Hey don't touch the cars - you'll mess it up". He then said - "It's time for you two to leave - you're bothering the real customers". We couldn't believe what we were hearing. He then said it again- "Just leave". And so we began to leave.

As we were walking off the lot the two salesmen and some other guys came quickly walking towards us each holding something. Then they started to throw eggs at us. The missed with most of the eggs but one hit my wife right in the side of the head causing a great big glob. Another egg hit my Buick. They then yelled at us - "Don't come back here - You are not Worthy"
It was obvious that they didn't want our business so we left - in disgust. We talked about it after that and decided that we didn't really want a BMW after all.

... [reposted]

dino001

Wow, I would probably have written long letters to both GM and BMW of America. Maybe even to local news media as well.

snakeweasel

Forget the letters get to a lawyer. If the story is true, and I have doubts on that, then you have a good lawsuit to go after. Also a call right there and then to the police department to file a criminal complaint too.

british_rover

You know I was almost beliving that till you added the eggs in there. You gotta know when to stop or the story just does not work.

mikefm58

LMAO, yeah I agree with the previous poster, almost believable until the eggs started flying....

jipster

no offense, but you need to get a backbone and go back to that dealership...and kick some salesmen [non-permissible content removed]

mazda6iguy

I was checking out the cars at my local Ford dealer after hours, and I came upon a few new Crown Vic police interceptors that were parked there with window stickers, etc. They were optioned out to be detective cars, black on black, no lights, etc.

Just wondering, can anyone buy a car built like this, or is there some post 9/11 govt regulations against selling it the the public. I'm curios. It would be nice to have a heavy duty car such as that.

corvette

You can find a used one, easy. Last I heard, as far as buying a new one, the dealers are on their honor to sell new police interceptor models only to police and government agencies. Of course, dealer honor being what it is...

jlawrence01

Call your local municipality and ask them when they auction their old police cars. You will have your choice of vehicles ... if you don't mind competing with the local cab fleets who often want the cars for their fleets.

Two hints. Make sure you know what a used police car is worth. Also, try to talk with the local municipal garage mechanics as they will give you some information. Finally, make sure that you understand the terms and conditions of the sale - when you need the money and in what form.

Do make sure that the Crown Vic Police Interceptor has been retrofitted with the proper safety equipment. They had issues with gas tank explosions after being rear ended.

You might be able to get the dealership to sell you a new one.

mazda6iguy

I was just curios, cause there were a couple on the lot. I am not interested in any used ones. I was just wondering if Ford had any rules against selling new to civilians.

riship

Question for you salespeople? How many floor sales do you average per salesperson. I've worked at two dealerships and each one has averaged about 8-9 per person per month. Basically at both dealerships there was one superstar who would do 20 units and no other salesperson made any real money. Most were doing 8 or 9 units and making 1500 a month. Does my experience seem typical. Meaning do the vast majority of salespeople really make such little money.

au1994

you had me till the eggs!! great imagination though!

larryallen707

His BMW story is totally real. I have seen his letters in Forum so I know they are real.

ateixeira

Ditto on the egg part, drop that and maybe substitute it with some name-calling and maybe people would believe it. Maybe tell it next April 1.

-juice

dino001

First I was shocked and outraged, but yeah - it's just too much to be true. I can see them being onboxious, uncarrying, brushing off, but eggs? Why would you do that knowing how litigous people are in this country? Makes no sense, regardless how superior one might feel.

snakeweasel

If its real tell me where did they get the eggs? Eggs are not something that you would normally find at a car dealership.

british_rover

and besides that who has a couple of dozen eggs at the dealership?

We have a little cream, sugar, artifical sweetner and the parts guys out back have some frozen snacks they make up sometimes but we do not have any eggs.

ateixeira

Thought the same thing.

I'm sure the snack bar has soda, coffee, candy bars, and FRESH EGGS?!

LOL

-juice

isellhondas

Until the egg throwing began! You almost got me!

Right or wrong, salespeople do tend to size up customers when they walk in the door. Not so much what they are wearing but everything in general. Does the customer seem focused? If they walk straight to the S-2000, then the Ridgeline etc, they are probably a non-serious shopper.

Not always. There are certainly exceptions but a saavy salesperson is USUALLY right.

jipster

Maybe the snobby, "are you worthy?" BMW dealership prepares fresh bacon and cheese omelets for their customers in the morning?

Better than the hotdogs off a George Foreman grill... and popcorn you get at Honda dealerships. :sick:

snakeweasel

You never know maybe BMW is trying to fulfill Herbert Hoovers campaign promise by giving out free chickens with every car. :shades:

"A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage" – Herbert Hoover during the 1928 Presidential campaign

dino001

If you are a Democrat, you want to believe that memo so much, but then those Times fonts and reduced sized superscript.

We all love to hate BMW dealers, so story like would be so great to believe in. But just when we are ready to take it all, EGGS!

Could we call it pulling eggs from the hat?

LOL

dino001

Chicken in every pot was invented by one of the French kings, don't remember which century. Read it in a book that was published in early 20th century (before Hoover)

kiawah

So for the salesmen experts out there.......how should I dress/act to improve sales buying experience when:

1.) Am just looking around the lot, checking out the different models/features/colors/prices, don't really want to be bothered by a rep nor want them to waste their time on me because I have NO intention of buying on that day. In the past, I've done this any day of the week or time of day. (Perhaps this isn't the best plan).

2.) The day I'm ready to seriously deal and ready to sign if we can get to a reasonable price. In the past, I've tried to do this on a week day to avoid the crowds on the weekends, and come with research binder/calculator in hand. (Perhaps this is not a good plan)

I always try to be real upfront and let them know intentions, and try not to waste anybody's time (mine or theirs)

stickguy

1) whatever you wore to mow the lawn and muck out the horse stall.

2) You're surgical scrubs and stethescope around your neck.

kiawah

oh rats....had that backwards.

snakeweasel

how should I dress/act to improve sales buying experience when: 1.) Am just looking around the lot,

Go to a costume shop and get a Napoleon costume, then go to the toy store and get one of those horse heads on a stick that kids use to pretend they are on a horse. Then ride that horse into the lot wearing the napoleon costume. I guarantee you no one will bother you.

audia8q

Am just looking around the lot, checking out the different models/features/colors/prices, don't really want to be bothered by a rep nor want them to waste their time on me because I have NO intention of buying on that day

I like to give folks a big red helium balloon that says "just looking" printed in big block letter. It keeps salespeople far away. Works better than no deodorant.

kdhspyder

30+ sales people on average...
1 averages 500 units a year!
2-3 average 200+ units a year
Most average 125-175 units a year

Lots of greenpeas who leave quickly after realizing that like you said at 8-9 units a month it's better to work at Burger King.

kdhspyder

We are on the backside of a highschool and middle school. If the test driver goes the 'wrong' way he/she ends up in front of the schools. I've been through there 3 times as a passenger. Two testers have been ticketed for going 27 in a 25 mph school zone.

Fast enough. :shades:

toyotasalesg1

Trust me. We've all wanted to throw eggs at our customers from time to time. Sadly my dealership does not supply eggs at the coffee bar.

british_rover

We can at least scare the hell out of bad customers on the off road test track.

toyotasalesg1

1.) If you're just looking you should ask to see a manager when you arrive at the dealership. Tell the manager your situation and ask to not be bothered.
You need to remember that a salesman "ups" you for two reasons. 1.) to make money. 2.) because his manager told him to. If he tells his manager that he's letting you walk around the car lot unencumbered by his presence because you're "just looking" he'll be looking for a new job immediately. EVERYONE says they're just looking. Usually it's not true.

also-- If it can be avoided don't come in on a busy Saturday or Sunday. That's a real no-no from the sales persons perspective. There's such a high volume of actual buyers that you're (unfortunately) just an inconvenience to the dealer. (is brutal honesty ok?)

2.) If you're at the dealer for serious business it doesn't matter how your dress. You can come in wearing overalls and berkenstocks so long as you're serious. Any half decent salesperson will be able to determine that you're serious after talking to you for five minutes.

black_tulip

You can come in wearing overalls and berkenstocks so long as you're serious.

Birkenstocks (ones that are made in Germany) are expensive! I just picked up a pair for slightly over $100, which is serious money for casual footwear.

blckislandguy

Sure, maybe you can dress like a slob and eventually convince people (but maybe not yourself) that you are serious. But let me suggest an alternative. Walk into the lot with your present ride parked out of sight. Why arrive in a battered Saturn with pro-choice stickers all over the back? Afterall, there is no reason to give any info away.

For most guys, wear the upper middle class weekend uniform: a blue button down collar shirt, clean kakhis, boat shoes, and a blue blazer. Carry a brief case containing a calculator, water, cell phone, print outs from Edmunds and KBB, and some reading material (maybe either the Weekend Edition of the Wall St. Journal OR a copy of the Automotive News weekly opened to the ads for dealerships for sale) for the inevitable delays.

Now you're dressed like you are ready to make a significant purchase. Surprisingly, you will be in fact dressed better than anyone you will meet at most dealerships, at least the domestic stores. You will think better and have more self esteem. (Yes, how we are dressed has an impact on both our behavior as well as those who we interact with).

On the other hand, I guess you could wander in with your wife and yourself in rumpled jeans and ask to see a new 7 Series. But you will be spending a lot of emotional capital trying to convince them and yourself that you are serious buyer. So much so that it will be distracting and not worth it. Be in uniform and you'll be all set.

toyotasalesg1

Birkenstocks can be pricey but they're popular footwear for college students who can't make a decision without Mom and Dad's ok. Mom and Dad bought the 'stocks, not junior. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I was once a poor birkenstock wearing college student myself.

dhamilton

have thoughts as to which company is the best to work for right now. I know a lot depends on the owner/management but for instance, BMW is really hot right now in the minds of consumers IMO. Infiniti seems to be making strides. My personal favorite is Audi. I know a fair amount about them [actually a lot] But they are mostly ignored by the general public. They seem to appeal to a small percentage of buyers. So in other words, will I go broke selling Audis. How important is it to judge market temperature for futire employment in the car business?
I can't sell American because my conscience won't allow me to [no offense intended] And I have no desire to sell Suzuki's for the same reason. I want to work for something I feel passionate about. Mostly Audi BMW. Am I crazy?

tsgeisel

I wouldn't necessarily call you crazy, but idealism and commission sales are a tough combination.

Note that a lot will depend on area, as well. I see a lot of Audis on the road here in San Jose, and Hyundai tends to get short shrift. Other places you might find it to be different.

Your best bet would be to research your area, look at what people are driving, and decide if your principles meet up with your local marketplace.

You might also want to re-look into Suzuki. If the Aerio weren't so tall that it felt to me like it affected the handling, I'd have gotten one a few months ago. And their SUVs are getting fantastic reviews nowadays.

snakeweasel

So in other words, will I go broke selling Audis.

The short answer is that depends on you. You can go broke selling ice water in hades or you can make a fortune selling ice to eskimos, it all depends on you. The first question is do you have any sales experience? If so what did you sell, how well did you do and did you like it?

I can't sell American because my conscience won't allow me to [no offense intended] And I have no desire to sell Suzuki's for the same reason.

As someone else said sales and idealism seldom go together. In sales often you have to make a sacrifice to Herb Tarlek (the god of sales) or live in a cardboard box. In other words if your conscience will not allow you to sell American cars (which I strongly believe is misguided) there are going to be many times it won't allow you to sell any car.

That being said I think tsgeisel gave you some good advice.

isellhondas

The store you work for is more important than the brand you sell.

Still, you have to believe in the product you sell, at least I do. I know I could not sell Audis. I think they are probably the most troublesome cars on the road. Nice to drive but nothing but trouble.

dhamilton

that makes a lot of sense. I guess I just want to sell something I'm passionate about. My only thing with American brands is that I'm not passionate about them. Thanks everyone for great advice, more is welcome.
One more question. Do the pay scales stay the same across manufacturer lines, or do they vary depending on ownership?
For instance, I have a friend who sold Audi's for a while and he got a $1200.00 draw each month. A guy that I know that sells bimmers is strait commission. [The bimmer guy makes a killing because he's been there for a long time, is very knowledgeable, and super easy to work with.]