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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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Got an address? You can look it up on the internet, in the areas where its not yet posted online all it takes is a short trip to the proper government offices.
So if the real estate analogy is great do you give that information to the buyers you are dealing with?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
First off... it sounds to me your trying to single out car dealerships as a different entity than general American business. If you Mr. rlenfestey owned a company, lets say that can of soup... everything you do to sell that can of soup is generally intended to make a profit. Weather its the name of your soup, the design of the can, the colors used, the marketing plan, and lastly, the price. It all coorilates to trying to sell as many cans of soup as possible, at the highest possible price, while controlling costs.
Now.. take that same principle and apply it to a automobile dealership. I'm not talking about the manufacture, the actual dealership. it is their sole responsibility to sell as many vehicles as possible, generating the most profit as possible. With that, they will market their product, and showcase their product to achieve that goal.
My point is this. You use words such as "sales tactics, controlling the sale, etc" as derogetory terms. My question to you is, would you blindly purchase a TV without first looking at the picture quality? The obvious answer is NO. So why is it considered a sales tactic to have a potential car buyer test drive a vehicle before price is discussed? If that buyer is not comfortable in that vehicle, or they do not like the style, or even the ride, price is irrelevant. However, once certain features are explined, their benefit to both you and your family, and then ultimately taking the customer out on a test drive, and at that point, once the customer says this is a vehicle I might want to potentialy own, then and only then price becomes important.
Which brings me to my next point. During that entire process, the salesman is a consultant. During that sales process, it is the salesmans responsibility to do a customer needs analysis. Thats where he needs to find out what features are most important to you, talk about budget, maybe discuss leasing versus buying, etc. He is filtering all the information you provide and then selecting a vehicle he thinks might put you in the best possible situation.
Youn hit on alot of topics so I am trying to help you as much as possible. Next topic, price. Customers must understand two things. Salesman deal with 50 - 100 customers in any given month. They walk the customer through the same process, over and over, month after month. With this much experience, it is impractible for you to think we are not in control. We can tell very quickly, through verbal expressions, or non verbal expressions those serious buyers, and those only interested in price. we can tell those who are wasting our time, or not truly in the market for a new vehicle. And most importantly, we are expert negotiaters. (spelling)? Most customers use their only tactic in this process.... lying. Thats because they have NO experience. However, we do this day in and day out. Every customer uses the words "Let me think about it..." or... "So and so dealership said they will do it for x dollars...", or "x dealership gave me this for my trade...". We hear these phrases everyday. but what customers do not realize is, we are already 10 steps ahead of you. remember, we know what rock bottom is... and if you cut the price by 50 bucks, or even 100 dollars, we know your not telling the truth. We know exactly what your trade is worth, and if you inflate the price by $1,000, we know your lying.
Now... lets say a customers says "I want to think about it". Let me walk you through a simple strategy. The salesman simply responds with... "I understand Mr. smith... this is a very important decision. When you go home and think about it, are you going to think about the vehicle, or maybe the price?" Mr smith says "Probably the price". Salesmans says "When you say price, are you talking more about money down.... the monthly payment, or the overall cost?" The customers says "monthly payment". The salesman says "So other than the monthly payment, is there anything else holding you back from taking delivery of this vehcile today?" Customers says "Probably not".
So on and so on. My point is this. We do this all the time. We are always in control and we usually can isolate any objection with very simple word tracks and more times than not, sell the customer a vehicle. If we do not, we know exactly why not, and then continue the process until we do. Maybe we wait another month, maybe we find a different vehcile, etc.
My next topic is... untruthfullness. Many customers think its OK to decieve a salesman and lye to them to acheive their goal in getting the vehicle for the lowest possible price. However, many of you think it is wrong for a salesman to lie to achieve the most possible profit. Now... do you really think that is acceptable? One thing customers need to understand, and this is directed mostly at rlenfestey, is that we do not have an obligation to sell you a vehicle. If you come to the dealership with a negetive attitude, become confratational, and then ultimately lie to me, it is MY responsibility to ask you to leave. And yes, I have turned many car buyers away because I did not want them as customers. Many people are shocked and suprised by this, but you must realize, slesman are working for themselves. We are our own business owners and control our own income. Just because I greated you on the lot, does not mean I have to deal with you if your going to be a tough customer.
I guess my point is this. Every customer wants a fair price and every salesman wants a fair commission. And that changes all the time. If on a Saturday I greet you, and I pick up right away your going to be at best a "mini", I have every right to turn you away for a better oppurtunity. Just like the realitor has a right to deny your 4 or 5% commission rate to sell your house. it just amazes me that most customers think that every dealership should lose money to sell them a car, and the salesman deserves $0 for the 3 or 4 hours of hard work.
In closing, I am sure I am going to get some negetive replys to this post. Just remember, as someone else already stated, to make the process fun. It shoudl be an exsciting experience to buy a new car. Out of 100 customers I talk to every month, 90 of them are fun. Now.. you can choose to have fun with the process and get a fair deal, or you can choose to be part of the 10% that nobody wants to deal with. And... if your lucky enough to be one of those 10% that still buys a car, don't balem the dealership or the salesman if after the purchase, he doesn't return your phone calls right away, or doesn't treat you like royalty. Everyone gets what they deserve and those fun customers will always get my attention, and those angry customers will always get ignored.
Holdback is a different story, but still, it's the dealer that ultimately sets the prices. The consumer only decides if they are willing to pay it.
-juice
Very true.
I recently bought a convertible, a Nissan 350Z Roadster. Prior to driving this car, I had thought I would most likely buy a Volvo C70. Very different types of cars. What changed my mind was the test drive, pure and simple. If the Nissan salesman had given me a hard time about taking the car for a drive by trying to "qualify" me - "What do you want in a convertible? Is this the right price for you? And blah, de blah, blah blah further..." I might have lost interest.
All I said was "My Maxima is in here for an oil change. While I wait, do you have a Z I could take for a test drive?"
He pointed out the black one in the showroom, that I didn't like, and a red one outside, which I did. One test-drive later, the car was as good as sold.
I considered myself lucky that I found both a car I really, really liked and a decent salesman who didn't stand in his own way by too many attempts at "qualifying."
This statement is quite revealing and deserves a bit of examination.
The salespeople here have spoken of their desire to have a relationship, while disparaging anything that would result in a lower price. In fact, buyers who negotiate for bottom dollar are given a pejorative nickname (yes, they will call you a "grinder") and the deals cut as a result are not seen as being favorable (a "mini"), so it's pretty clear that salespeople have a negative attitude about low prices and customers who want to pay low prices.
So what is the purpose of this much-vaunted "relationship"? Of course, it's to make sure that the deal doesn't become a "mini" (which nobody really wants if he can avoid it), and that the buyer pays more than a "grinder" would pay. So it's all about the price, except in this case about the price being higher than it needs to be.
The salespeople here don't want a relationship with you if it means giving you the lowest price. A low-price buyer is a "grinder", someone whom they dislike.
Here's the thing -- I don't mind having a relationship with you, I'm just not willing to pay for it. But apparently, "relationships" cost money (they are actually quite expensive), and you aren't willing to throw them in free of charge.
So if you don't want a relationship just because I like to pay less, that's your problem, not mine. Just don't be surprised if I'm not particularly heartbroken because you decided that you didn't want to offer it.
Subaru does a lot of dealer incentives instead of rebates because in some states the customer ends up paying state sales tax on rebates.
Sounds silly, but if you buy a VW Phaeton, with a $10,000 rebate, you will end up paying a whopping $500 extra in MD sales tax because of that very minor technicality.
-juice
Invoices, holdbacks, all other things are of customer's interest only to determine how much is the lowest price the other side is likely to accept. I don't think it is really productive to bring them up explicitly, unless the salesman does it. However, if there is a delaer incentive, it is likely that the product initial price was set too high, or its value has "perished" (i.e. new model coming, low sales figures, etc.). So they are for the dealer, provided he will find enough buyers at the original price. He likely will not, hence the incentive.
And although many bad salsemen use it as a line on their customers, I have mouths to feed at home too.
The point is the customer does not need to care if you have ten kids, or live alone in a cave. All they want and need is the best price for the given product at the given time and place. For sake of argument let me add that "purchasing experience" might be a part of that product. Your family situation or whether you have for the next rent/mortgage payment is as relevant to them as theirs to you. If you feel their offer is not good enough, just say no, as they may say no to yours. The motivation behind their acting is not really important.
I just still can't understand how there are so many people out there that think it is free to run a dealership.
What do I care, maybe it is. It's not the point. The product has a certain value on the market - it may happen it is less than the merchant bought it for - too bad for them - next time switch brand. If you tell me that it's OK to pay 10 grand over the sticker for that hot rod , it's also OK to pay 5 grand below real cost for that spacewaster that nobody wanted in last two years. Tough.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Who is saying its free to run a dealership? I don't see anyone saying such things.
I have mouths to feed at home too.
So do I thats why I try not to waste any money in buying things, including cars.
if you knew in the back of your head that you were going to waste 13 hours of your day to make $75?
If I knew that my boss would have my resignation in a heartbeat. If that is anywhere near the norm I suggest a career change.
All I am saying, is that if you aren't going to care for me,
All I am saying is make whatever profit you can off the deal (I don't care what you make on it), I will still strive to get the best reasonable price I can. If you make $10K off of it great, if you lose your shirt its no skin off my nose. Its just that I am not going to over pay just so you can bring home a bigger paycheck.
In other words if the new 2007 Buyota Benz is selling for $200 under invoice on average why should I pay $400 above invoice? I am going to shoot for no more than $200 below.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There's an article in AutomotiveNews today, in fact, about some Ford dealers that are hoping to get $15,000 above MSRP on the new GT500 Mustangs.
Of course this it not rare - early Miatas, early New Beetles, early PT Cruisers, even Mini Coopers all fall in to the same category.
So it's hard to feel sorry for dealerships having to give up some of the other incentives mentioned above when you see stuff like that. Perhaps it's a case of a few bad apples ruining the batch.
-juice
We are always in control and we usually can isolate any objection with very simple word tracks and more times than not, sell the customer a vehicle...
I couldn't have said it better myself. Car salespeople really crave control, it is extremely important for you to seize control. This is no mistake, but an inherent part of the sales method used to sell cars.
All very predictable stuff, which matches exactly what I've been telling buyers. I know that you absolutely crave control as a sales tool, which is exactly why I suggest providing the illusion that you have it.
Since you want control so desperately, it works to my advantage to have you believe that you've got it. Yet the reality is at the end of the day, he who has the checkbook is always ultimately in control. That's why timing and information flow are important in negotiations, and a smart buyer knows how to manage both.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Just an example, I had a guy come in one time about "Price, Price, Price, Price, Price" so I sold him the car at his price and made about $2,400. off of him. I sold the same exact car to a nice, well mannered , open-minded customer that same week for almost 4 grand less.
Why did I do this? Because I know this perosn will be loyal, and will come back to me in the future and send their friends and family. They will get their car serviced here, and buy parts here. They won't just bounce back and forth every time to every dealership for the lowest instant quote.
In reality ic boils down to maximizing profit. As the price of a can of soup goes up less will be sold. Each combination will produces a certain amount of profit. The key is to get to the price point where profit is maximized.
If that buyer is not comfortable in that vehicle, or they do not like the style, or even the ride, price is irrelevant.
On the flip side if the price is so much higher than I can afford why go through the time and trouble of test driving something I can never buy?
During that entire process, the salesman is a consultant. During that sales process, it is the salesmans responsibility to do a customer needs analysis.
A smart shopper would have already have done this themselves. When I buy a car all I need from the salesperson is to be an order taker.
it is impractible for you to think we are not in control.
The customer has ultimate control simply by using their feet.
We hear these phrases everyday. but what customers do not realize is, we are already 10 steps ahead
Also realize that the smart shopper is also 10 steps ahead.
Now... lets say a customers says "I want to think about it". Let me walk you through a simple strategy. The salesman simply responds with... "I understand Mr. smith...
To which I would break in and say "Thank you for understanding when I have considered it and made my choice I will let you know". I mean really I can you you coming a mile away.
Many customers think its OK to decieve a salesman and lye to them to acheive their goal in getting the vehicle for the lowest possible price.
I and others will tell you never lie in a negotiation because it will come back to haunt you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You might notice that I've never suggested that a buyer announce to a dealer that price is a priority, that's a good way to overpay for a lesser car than what you initially wanted. A buyer needs to conduct his research and then negotiate appropriately in order to find the lowest price point possible, not depend upon the dealer to give it to him. Please don't confuse what I'm saying here with how I conduct myself during actual negotiations.
And you may notice that I've never suggested that a customer be anything but "nice" or "well mannered", at least in most situations, and I've advised that buyers provide the illusion that they also want the relationship. There are exceptions, but it's not generally smart for a buyer to turn the buying process into an aggressive tug of war.
But even if we are exceptionally nice about it, you will still dislike us when we go for the lowest price, because that's what "grinders" do. You were trained to go for more, and you will resent it if you end with less than you hoped for. But again, if you want to feel bitter because you scored only a low-price deal, it's not my problem. The relationship is all well and good, but I'm not at all concerned if you'd prefer to dislike me because of it.
(Oh, I guess I should have pointed this out, but the math doesn't seem to work in your example. Did you sell the other car at a $1600 loss?)
I was starting to believe you before you posted that. Just to make sure I understand you, someone was professional with their negotiations and out of the kindness of your heart, you gave them a sweetheart of a deal?
Give me a break. There is no comparison to buying a can of soup, or a TV, or a DVD to buying a vehicle. When is the last time any of you bought a TV that required you to sit in an office somewhere (in most cases for several hours) and sign twenty pieces of paperwork? How many of you bought a TV that was marked at $500 and then realized that you paid $800 for the TV after you walked out the store?
That said, I just bought a Honda Odyssey EX-L two weeks ago from a dealer here in Northern VA I did the whole transaction over the Internet and purchased the car for just roughly $600 under invoice. The dealer was honest, up front, and happy to make the sale at that price. There were no surprises or hidden costs. Obviously they are making money somewhere and still able to pay for overhead (how much overhead is there to have a lot for the cars and an Internet sales team) and "food on the table".
I seriously doubt most car buyers come in trying to negotiate dealer holdback on most vehicles. After all, the dealer has just as much right to say no as the consumer.
Most are impulse buys. Their current car is totally serviceable and running well. The owner is just tired of it.
As such, that new car is rarely a "need" but a "want". IF I need a new car, right now, I'm probably more apt to accept anything closely resembling a discount, no matter how feeble it is. As a "want", I've got time to do research about prices, features, reveiws, etc. That one fact alone probably makes up the large percentage of buyers who are willing to grind a deal.
But I find it pretty hard to believe that you would sacrifice the profit for the dealership and your commission just to "build a relationship" with the open minded customer. Also, I think that by being honest and up front with the customer who did their research goes a long way. How do you know they wont send more friends/family/co-workers your way? Ummm. I would imagine that, in this scenario, both parties would need to get their vehicles serviced somewhere. Why do you assume that the informed customer would not come back to the dealer that sold them their vehicle (especially if they had a good experience with an honest, up front dealer)?
-juice
And you should find it hard to believe. Let's face it, the MSRP is generally a lot of air, and the ADM (if there is one) irrelevant. The salesperson can easily throw you a bone in the form of a slightly lower price as compared to some grossly inflated number, when he would have taken far less than that.
On the "Purchasing Strategies" thread, I described one of my past experiences, in which the sales manager attempted to first raise the price (the old "we can't make money on that price, sorry for the mistake" routine), then "split the difference" between the original deal and the new inflated deal. The splitting of the difference was really a ploy just to pull up the price further still, with the "splitting" tossed in order to create the illusion of compromise. (It's structured to appear as if you are "meeting in the middle", but this higher price only became the middle because the dealer moved it upward.)
Just remember that half of a pile of BS is just a smaller pile of BS, which means that it remains 100% BS. Tossing a bone is nothing when you could get the whole steak for a lower price.
Would you mind telling us what's the brand and why would a different dealer (who has no moral/esthetic objecions to work with obnoxious customer) "not pitch" this program to them and accept a mini instead? Something simply does not add up.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
CustomerA "I want car XX and am only willing to pay the invoice price of $30,000".
CustomerB "I want car XX, and see the MSRP is $38,000. Let's talk price, what deal can you get me".
According to your scenario (with the ridiculous factory to dealer incentive), wouldn't you be making MORE money off CustomerA who is focused on his price, and is not aware of the incentive, or CusotmerB who is open-minded about the prices?
Seems to me that you would love more of the CustomerA types who are set on a price that potentially gives you a larger profit margin. BTW, can you share what make of vehicles you sell? Just curious..
Websites like edmunds are great tools for both salesman and customers. Thats why your seeing a mixture on this very forum. With that said, all manufactures change their incentives depending on what region your located in (otherwise known as business center), and they also change some incentives mid-month.
At the same time, the customer will never know what kind of deal they can truly get if they simply blurt out some ficticious number. For example, lets say I am one unit shy of a $750 bonus. Now... the customer will never know that and sometimes, I might even guide a customer in a certain way to "guarentee" a sale. Now... imagine the same customer will a TMV price, that could be alot higher than the price I was going to guide them to.
Now... most salesmans have seen the dateline episodes and I would love to know how many dealerships they had to visit to actually get a full hours worth of video. Now... it is true, dealerhsips will make a profit on everything from the vehicle, to a warranty, to etch, to even the finance rate. Trust me, this is all accounted for. Now.. if a dealer knows the customer wants an extended warranty, he might be more inclinced to over allow on a trade.
In any event, all dealerships and all salesman are lumped into one category regardless of our own moral values and intentions. To me, it truly does not matter. The bottom line is this. Customers must decide what price is fair to them (not some website), and a dealer must decide what their willing to let the vehicle sell for. If it works, great. If not, thats OK too. There are many more car buyers out there than dealerships in any given area and dealerships understand this.
Lastly, about the length of time.... that is probably my number one annoyance in selling cars. Customers come in, expect to be treated like royalty, and be out on the road in their new vehicle in an hour or less. Yet at the same time, they will spend 2 hours in Walmart looking at a new lawn mower. My point is... it takes a long time to select a vehicle and finance that vehicle. Slow down and have fun. And remember, there are 100 things to sign because of customers who later decided they regretted the transaction and wanted to try and sue to get out of it.
One more thing... regardless of incentives, web information, or what region your in, dealers will always make about $2,500 a unit in total profit. Thats roughly 8% profit on 30,000 car. Not that outrageous when that fountain pop you purchased at speedway has about 2,000% profit.
Actually, that's good advice.............let the salesman be first to make an offer.
They don't push me to anything. They listen to my requirements and try to meet them. Before looking on the lot, my salesman pulls his inventory and the in-transit sheets to see what best fits my requirements. If they don't have it, they locate and trade.
I'm given the keys to whatever I want to drive and I'm off on my own. Need an hour or two to make sure, take your time. When it comes to pricing and trade-in, they have met or exceeded my best offers with minimal negotiation. (Although, I like them, I still shop a few dealers for the same vehicle prior to shopping them.)
I've always tried to purchase local and have done so most of the time. However, I've had hard negotiations at times to keep my money local. Some dealerships deserve to go out of business, so when they force me to shop and purchase elsewhere, I do. Like I said, my current dealership is great to work with and I'll use them until my next transfer.
I was actually told by the owner that I should be happy to pay more at a local dealer in order to support local business.
Unsurprisingly, that dealership is now closed.
Take the last three new cars that I have purchased. After determining the make and model I wanted I emailed as many local dealers as possible to determine the best out the door (this is very important) price. I then take the top three or four quotes and start making calls to determine which dealer is willing to give me the best deal. Let me state that, I have in the past, not always gone with the lowest dealer if the quotes were close and I trusted or liked the service I was receiving from a particular dealer more than another. After I decide which dealer I want to purchase from, I do most of the leg work either over the Internet, or the phone before I drive in to sign the paperwork. Once I am at the dealership, the process is pretty fast as they have already prepped the vehicle and all I need to do is test drive it, do the paperwork, and then inspect it before I drive away. Usually this process is two hours max..
I personally have been involved in two dealer scams. Once, my girlfriend (now wife) had the dealer try to call her after the sale to tell her that the interest rate changed, and she needed to sign new paperwork. We called the bank that we financed through and found out the dealer lied. As my wife told this story to friends, and co-workers she was shocked at how many other people this had happened to (usually women) and how many had actually signed the new paperwork (the dealership that tried to scam us was very pushy and even threatened my wife until I grabbed the phone).
Another time, I had nearly completely closed a deal on a new car when I noticed that the numbers were not adding up (OTD price I was quoted with the paperwork). The dealer told me that they made a mistake and could not sell me the car for the price they quoted me (about $500 over invoice). I told them I was going to walk we went back and forth until the dealer caved. Guess what, they tried to get me at the end of the deal again by adding a $500 doc fee (after the dealer had agreed to waive the doc fee). They refused to cave, so I walked. I ended up buying the same car from a dealer down the street the next day at invoice..
Ummm....yes.....I don't see the issue with any of that.
A customer insists on driving three or four cars before settling on one...that's fine. Then, they will spend forever trying to get to a number that makes them happy.
Finally, a deal is struck and we shake hands.
At that point they will ask..." How long is this going to take"? When I tell them they will probably be there another hour or so, they suddenly remember that they have to be somewhere! Then the time pressure (from them) begins as I rush to get their paperwork turned into the business office...this is a LOT of paperwork!
They will pace the floor, look at their watch every five minutes. They will try to rush the Business Managers etc.
I will do a fast delivery and I will tell them to please call me if they have any questions, I'm happy to help!
By the time they leave, I'm worn out.
Then when they get the survey, they will give me a so-so survey and under "Comments" they say..." The process took too long!" Or they will say.." Could have spent more time explaining the controls and features"
THEY made it long drawn out process! :confuse:
Anyway do you notice how it is always the same couple of posters causing trouble getting posts deleted and threads shut down.
Just don't respond to them. Ignore them move on to something else because no matter what you say they are always right.
I will share one quick story...
Last monday I had a guy come in to look at a Land Rover. I was finishing up with an appointment as he came in the door. He fairly polietly told me that he would just look around while I finished up with my customer since I was the only salesguide there. He wasn't pushy which was nice.
Anyway I finish up with my customer, sold her a Range Rover Sport a few days later actually, and start to help him.
He just moved by to CT after spending the last 15 years out west flipping houses. He made a lot of money doing it. He had a brand new 500 plus horsepower sports sedan, you figure out which model, and he did not want to drive it in the rain let alone snow this coming winter.
He wanted a Land Rover to drive whenever it was not sunny. I sold him the LR3 we had on the floor with the tent attached. All he wanted was the tent thrown in for free since it would be great for fishing.
You can see my carspace page for pictures of the tent attached to the LR3.
He never drove the car never even started up the engine since we had it in the showroom. The first time he actually started the car was when he took delivery. He has been by the dealership one time since he took deliver to order some more accesories for his truck. He is going to get the winch put on the front cause and I quote, "It will make the truck look a lot more mean and bad [non-permissible content removed]."
The labor time for the winch is about 10 hours and the winch itself is almost 2,500 dollars. He is also getting driving lights and the big bull bar put on. His parts alone were over 5,000 dollars and after labor I think his total bill will be 8,000 or more.
The funny part is that my boss was talking to this guy on the phone. He called trying to get directions to our dealership and he kept getting other calls on his cell. Everytime he would get another call he would put my boss on hold.
My boss got so tired of being put on hold every two minutes he almost hung up the phone. This deal was a huge win for everybody. Parts got to bill a lot of stuff. Service got to bill a lot of hours and we sold a LR3 for pretty much full list minus the cost of floor mats and the tent.
At that point about all you can do is bring out the catalog and ask him "so, what else do you want"?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
On the flip side if the price is so much higher than I can afford why go through the time and trouble of test driving something I can never buy?
This is really the only point I was trying to get acrosss in my very first post. Thank you, snakeweasel, for closing the loop of understanding. The post I put on was intended for the probable audience here, the buyers; to make it easier for them to get a car at a price they want to pay.
It may have for you, but it has passed a lot of people by. The "buyers" side here tend to look at the sales situation as if all buyers are as informed as they are. Unfortunately nothing could be further from the truth. A lot of buyers arrive on the lot with totally unrealistic expectations of what a car is going to cost them. I couldn't begin to count the number of times I had folks sat on the other side of the desk wanting to buy a G35 Coupe for $300 a month with 0 down or people who would owe $20000 on a 2001 Altima and insist that's what it was worth.
I loved Edmunds buyers. They would come in knowing the invoice, incentives, TMV, etc. A test drive, a reasonable offer and they'd be gone with their new car in 60 to 90 minutes. Compare that to the folks who would insist that we had $15000 profit on a $30000 car, accuse us of faking invoices and all manner of heinous crimes, you can guess who I'd rather deal with.
I do have problems with some of the people who "know" what their trades are worth. What they don't know is the fact nobody wants thier Focus or Excursion that gets 10MPH.
Sometimes they don't believe me and they will leave only to shop all over, hear the same thing and finclly return because I treated them right.
And some people get pickled by some of the fantasy they read about in the Prices Paid forums.
I know they're not quick but that is ridiculous!
Seriously, the biggest block I would find to most deals wasn't the price of the vehicle but the value of the trade.
Wow - and I just thought that math & business laws ceased to exist... Bummer
2018 430i Gran Coupe
(personally-directed posts have been removed as well)
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
When your buyer fills out the title....
... make sure he doesn't put 27,700 miles into the space provided so it looks like 270,00x miles.
Ask me how I know this.
Took another form and a 30min drive for each of us to meet and get things straightened out.
At least he didn't wind up True Mileage Unknown.
OTOH, it was an easy way to retrieve my garage door opener.. after all these years youu'd think I'd know.
-Mathias
Absolutely, positively and definitely YES. It is the market that determines the price, as with anything else.
People rarely do it the right way left to their own devices.
It was April 2002 and the Prelude had ceased production in November 2001 due to lack of sales & the fact that Honda didn't need another halo car (with the S2000 selling so well). There were so many leftover Preludes on dealer lots that Honda still had it listed on their website (as a 2001 model) in mid-2002. I contacted quite a few dealers asking them if they had any '01 Prelude Type SHs in stock. My local dealer had 6 Preludes, all base models, all automatics. There was one Red Type SH Prelude in New Jersey on a dealer's lot...perfect. Someone on Town Hall had just purchased a similar car a few months before at $1500 below invoice. I figured this to be my price target. Every dealer I spoke to wanted $500 over invoice plus $400 to go and get the car. How could this be? A car that has been discontinued due to a clear lack of sales should clearly be selling for under invoice. My local dealer told me the price once (invoice) and I took it. Was it the absolute rock bottom price that I could have bought the car for? No. Could I have found the car myself in NJ? Maybe. maybe not. The point is that I paid a reasonable price (to me) for an amazing car. 4 years and more than 67,000 miles later I still love driving it every single day.
I have friends in Mass who just bought a new Pilot. They know I'm a car guru and were telling me about their whole sales process. They were explaining the paint and interior protection package that only cost them $500 extra. You read some comments on these boards that says paint protection throws up and red flag and immediately means rip-off. They're happy with their truck, so that's what matters.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD