Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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1) I spent a bit of time with the financing folks, who were able to get me a better deal than I got online (my credit is poor). Handed over a very large check, go the contract paperwork, and was told I'd need to have the insurance ready to go. Since the car was an '05, I also had them change the oil in it, since there's no telling how long the car had been just sitting (only 76 miles on it at pickup).
2) From the dealership I went to my insurance broker, and got everything dealt with.
3) Phone call later that day asking for a utility bill and a paycheck stub.
4) Went in the next day with proof of insurance, utility bill and paycheck stub. Had to wait about 45 minutes while my salesman, who may have had the day off, came in, made sure to show me a few things, installed the external antenna for the radio, assured me the oil had been changed, and then I drove off.
Actual downtime in the process was fairly minimal, especially since I wasn't going to drive anywhere without insurance, even if they might have let me otherwise.
1st new car, I had to come back next day while they set up financing and I provided some more info, pay stub, proof of college grad since I was getting a discount for that. This was in AL so insurance wise, just showed them my card.
When we bought my wife's PT Cruiser we were put through every mind game in the book: high 1st pencil, waiting, waiting and more waiting. We waited so long that if we would have had a spare set of keys to the trade in, we'd have found it and left.
Did one purchase (Accord) on-line. In and out the door in an hour or less.
2 others (Explorer and 4Runner)I had been back and forth out of the dealer, but actual deal and delivery time was 2 hrs max.
All 4 of the above were in TX and all I had to do was show my insurance card.
Got my wife a Volvo last year, total time at the dealership 3.5hrs. We're in GA now and by the time I called my insurance on Monday to make the changes, the dealer had already added the new car.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
I will tell how it is that is one thing about me. I have been doing auto sales for almost 5 years, and being a woman in a mans world (yes it is still a mans world in the auto industry) I have have had to be thick skinned, (I have cried a few times) resilient, and not put up with the BS. (or at least just smile) I am fair, honest, professional and provide excellent customer service. I love meeting all walks of life. The only thing that bothers me is when its summertime and its 115 degrees outside and I am getting in black on black cars, and when we negotiate (if I have not fainted at this point) he starts the whole "oh you make more than that on the car, you get the holdback ect ect." First of all, try that noise at a BMW DEALER or a BENZ dealer. They will just stare at you in awe and say "If you want to drive a BMW this is what you are going to pay" People think because we are not Benz we are not LUxury marquee. I am so lucky that I can say "this is the price, other than this price we are done" and not get introuble for it. :P
I'm in OH. If I'm financing, I've got arrangements already made with my S&L. If the dealership wants to beat their rate, they're welcome to try (and have, from time-to-time). We're required to carry proof of insurance in our state. So, I always have my insurance card with me at all times. That suffices on that front. I've only seen dealerships have me show it to them and they write down the policy number. Usually, when I call my insurance company to add the car, the dealership has already informed them, if it's during the week, during business hours. If not, it's done the first day the insurance company is available. THe last few transactions, the dealership has also required me to sign a pre-printed form stating that I do, indeed, have insurance.
Most recently, the test drive and negotiation takes about 30 minutes. The paperwork part takes about 15-20 minutes. The post sale presentation and car/manual overview takes about 10-15 minutes. Then.....I'm down the road.
Anyway, I really wanted the oil change, so the extra day was no big deal. Paperwork on Friday morning, head to work, pickup on Saturday morning, with no problems.
The important part is that the whole process fits into your schedule - you are, after all, paying many thousands of dollars to them.
You guys all provide great insight into the dealership world. I'm sure you deal with all types all the time.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
People are right. Volkswagen = people's car.
But people get discounts at Benz and BMW, too. It all depends on the market, person, and the dealer. So, it's not luxury itself that commands sticker price, it's the market demand that may or may not be there, depending on the vehicle and brand merrits. Audi still happens to be in "catching up" mode - one does not need to explain why they got a Benz or BMW. For Audi - it depends on the region. Here in SE - many people still do, hence on average better incentive programs than those from big two.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I realize that much can be done beforehand but my credit union won't process a loan application without a VIN. So I can't do that in advance.
My insurance agent won't add a vehicle until I have a buyer's order with a VIN. If I were buying a vehicle in the middle of day, no problem. But usually, I'm not.
Registering a vehicle in MA isn't a walk in the park so I doubt it could be done in a day.
Everyone's experiences are different. As I said, I've never heard of anyone in the Boston area leave the same day with a new vehicle.
If I'm financing, I've got a pretty good idea how much I'm going to need financed. I get a blanket loan amount from my S&L. They usually have a pre-printed form I show the dealership that they (the S&L) will cover the purchase amount. Either the dealership, or I, can call the S&L with the VIN # after the purchase.
In OH, it's a simple phone call to my insurance agent's office. If it's after business hours when the deal is done, all I (or the dealership) has to do is leave them a message. My insrance covers ME on any car I'm driving, not the vehicle itself.
We may not have the incentives like Benz does, but they charge 295 for a split folding rear seat and for other things that are standard on the A4, is the incentive really a good deal?
However, the thing is that people there don't buy "value" alone in luxury segment. Name, recognition, etc. are also important. You and I may know their cars are either better period, or (at least) better for the money, many people still do not. That's why I said that Audi is still catching up and cannot command the same prices (that value may be there exactly because Audi knows people would not pay as much as for Benz).
Moreover, in many markets their dealers need to discount their prices even further, exactly to create stronger appeal to "value" buyers. So, it is nice to compare yourself to "them", but reality is even if you or I know they are equal, market still thinks they are not.
It takes long time to move in the chain and takes more than just a better product. VW and Subaru just tasted that - both declared their will to move "upscale" and both end up putting quickly large incentives on their high-end products, cause market simply rejected their pricing and pretenses (at least - for now). Audi is in better shape, but you'll experience what you just described for more than you think, deserved or undeserved. Just a fact of life.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Others want to get better deal than their neighbors, or at least want to believe that.
There are some who honestly believe that fair profit is only when they profit, i.e. YOUR fair profit is only when it's negative. Anything more is just outrageus for them.
Some others have already been taken for a ride couple of times so the'll never trust again. Or they know someone who was.
I realize this thread is from a week or two ago but I find it very interesting. I am expanding the topic and am sincerely interested in what salespeople think. There have had similar posts by an unhappy salesman on the Acura MDX Prices Paid forum. To me, a customer, the #1 thing is I want to keep money in MY POCKET and NOT in your pocket. Doesn't matter if you are a car salesman, a doctor, whatever. I work hard for my money and want to keep as much as possible so I can keep buying new cars, fancy trips, etc.... The salseman who posted on the MDX forum suggested, essentially, that a customer should be happy to pay the 8% profit so the salesman makes a comfortable living and doesn't have to be reduced to "making $5 an hour" selling cars. To me the bottom line is you choose your career and you know how cars are bought and sold in this country. If you don't like it get another job. Do car salesmen not negotiate as good a deal as possible when they buy a car?
Small disclaimer - not a salesman of any kind (engineer). I was writing was an attempt to state things as they are from from a point of view of an impartial observer rather than either side of the process.
I definitely agree with you about the lowest price being a general goal of a customer. I always go for low price unless I am convinced I get something for extra buck. This may be:
1. Time; while it is great to get lowest price in the world, there is a point of diminishing result, i.e. each additional $50 off costs too much of effort. Everybody determines that point by themselves.
2. General satisfaction/good mood/trust, etc, which could be lumped in "customer service", or "purchasing process satisfaction". IMHO they may be treated as a separate product itself from the vehicle and priced accordingly. While the Honda one buys may be the same, the paper signing process, post-sale follow up, the showroom, etc. may differ significantly. This means I may accept higher price from a guy I like and/or trust rather than lower from a guy I don't. Again, depending on the personality of the customer, it may be worth different amount for different people. I simply choose not to do business with a person I know is a [non-permissible content removed], even if they offer me the lowest price. Simple reason being that I never know if they don't pull some eleventh hour crap and I will have to do it again. I may also choose to refuse to buy in a place that has dirty restrooms or rude people.
3. Convenience - if I lived in a small town, I may have to accept higher price if I don't want to drive two hours to save some money.
4. There are more reasons, depending on the person's situation.
I personally don't care how much a salesman (or the store owner) will make on the deal. If I think that the market price for the product is below the acquisition cost, tough for them - nobody forces anybody to sell anything. His option is not to sell it to me for the price I think is market, my option is not to by fot the price he wants. ADPs stuck on the window don't bother me a bit, they can be funny at times when not reflecting the market (like Mazda dealer in Tallahassee wanting extra 2 grand for 626 in its last year of production) - if they do, it means there are enough suckers to pay for that Solstice. I just ask the dealers not to bring their kids to the table when they try to sell Taurus.
When I wrote that, I was simply trying to explain motivation of some people who would chase the last dollar, or who are simply unreasonable in their expectations (whether to what is market value for the product or what is the proper expectation of profit), or who simply see it as a game with a jackpot to win. Some of it (even most perhaps) is obviously coming as a response to behavior of many salespeople doing exactly the same in reverse.
Ultimate thing - if two sides are informed and can agree on the price of the product, the price is fair, whatever the amount. If one side is ill-informed and loses - tough, the other side has no obligation to inform them. When one side tries illegal tactics of coersion or similar - that's a case for a state attorney.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I'm curious as to what technology you are explaining that gets people so excited.
And when all is said and done most Audi models are really re-bodied volkswagons. Not that VW is the only company that does it.
I'm curious as to what technology you are explaining that gets people so excited.. And when all is said and done most Audi models are really re-bodied volkswagons.
It's probably most unfair description of Audi I have heard in quite some time. I don't own one, I may or may not buy one eventually, as their competition may have better/more appealing entries, but saying that Audi has no technology to get excited about and is just a reskinned Volkswagen is close to outrageous.
If anything, most tech on US-sold Audis flows from Audi to VW, not the other way around. A6 has no VW counterpart, A8 was long before Phaeton was ever conceived and will be after Phateon dies, A4 used to be somewhat closely related to Passat, but no more (different chassis, different powertrain other than 4-cylined engine). The only vehicle somewhat fitting VW spell is A3. Even TT would be a stretch to call it VW, as there is nothing like that there (please don't say Beetle).
Now lets talk technology: heave you heard of All Wheel Drive? Or perhaps you missed that now everybody has to have one. Audi practically invented its use in modern mass-production vehicles. Of course there were developments prior, but really 5000 was the first regular-driver driveable vehicle that used AWD in higher-speed on-road application. Have you seen 5000 and A6 20 years later driving upwards the ski jump hill? Real stuff, no tricks. I suppose not.
Have you heard of FSI? CVT? DSG? One may discuss their origin, as really "everything was", but Audi was first to put successfully those inventions in mass-production vehicles.
How about a diesel-powered LeMans winner? Has that been done by anybody before? Oh, I forgot that the gas-powered won it, too just a year before...
Audi is no minor player. Surely, they have problems and they are still smaller than Benz and BWM. But the gap is closing with each generation, also in price which is not that great, as I always thought they were catering to those value-conscious customer, but [non-permissible content removed] appears they sort f gave them up for "legacy" money.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
1) the customer can do whatever they want to do. The sales person needs to adjust to the customer and not let their ego get in the way.
2) Management has a responsibility to sell a car and do it the right way to maximize profits but also to make sure they do not miss any business trying to hold too much gross profit.
3) the sales person needs to not worry about commission and to go out and be of service to the customer and the money will come. There will be big grosses and mini deals but in the end it will all work out.
I like to look at the end of the year and calculate all commission, bonuses, pull checks, etc. and divide it by the number of cars I sold that year. That number always ends up being a number that is worth my time and effort.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Sort of like saying that LS430 is a Camry with ventilated memory seats and 8 cylinder engine, Caddy DTS is an Impala with better seats, little more legroom and 8-cylinder engine, or G35 is an Altima with rear wheel drive.
You effectively say "I don't really know that much, but I don't care, all I know is ... and no amount of anybody's words or cited facts can really change my view". I can deal with that. Everybody is entitled to their beliefs. Once you proclaimed them so plainly there is really no point in discussing it any further. Nothing to do with an ego...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Sure, a New Beetle and an Audi TT share DNA, but you'd never know if you sat in both back to back.
They should be praised for this, not chastised.
-juice
Reliability is one of the reasons that despite my big proclaimed admiration to their tech know-how, I may be very hesitant of getting and Audi. At least it looks their customer service and post-sale follow-ups are first class (or so it seems), but in my view a car stops being a car when it's inoperable.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Belive me paying more money for a car does not mean it will be issue free. More money means more technology and gadgets which mean greater chance of funny things breaking. Many of the gadgets might be on the ragged edge of technology that a dealer will have a hard time fixing.
Most people don't understand that.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Of course not all problems with technology are user related but many of them are.
The Range Rover has 36 something seperate computers in it. Imagine taking 36 laptops in your car putting some of them in freezing cold conditions then heating them up to 150 or so degrees then running over a bunch of rocks then drivign up a 45 degree incline into over 2 feet of standing water.
After all of that drive on the highway for 300 miles at 100 mph.
Now stop and see if all the computer still work.
I am amazed that vehicle can do what it can do without crashing every other day.
Is it honest to advertise the vehicle suggesting that you can actually climb Tibet and go on Sahara if you know those computers will not withstand those conditions undamaged?
Promises are made, implied or actual - they are not delivered on. Change the promise or deliver - that's my point here. Other than that is just a lame excuse of extracting money from suckers who actually believe in the legend put there by the marketing team.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Surely every vehicle is marketed with the implied promise that it will improve your quality of life in various ways. They always have been and I'd guess they always will be. Much as I roll my eyes and make disparaging remarks about it to my wife, I think that life would lose a little of its luster if advertising was regulated to being purely factual.
Thats one of the reasons I tend to stay a generation or two behind when it comes to gizmos. Let someone else have the latest troublesome gadget, I will get one where the bugs are worked out.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The car with the worst reliability had the highest percentage of buyers who would buy another. It was a Lotus Elan.
Maybe Audis are so much fun to drive it more than compensates for their poor reliability.
And I "effectivly say"?Are you really so brilliant that you put words into a persons' mouth?You're a teenager,aren't you?And a blanket dismissal...can you read?
Anyway since Audi and VW rank near the bottom I think an intelligent buyer would have a hard time being impressed with them. Regardless of :shades: AWD history or racing diesels or all of the other things you cite. As if any of those things matter. But hey,as you so like to say:"I can deal with that".
Nice.
"Member since 27 May 2006"
Let me be the first to say, Welcome Aboard.
-Mathias
I've got a pretty vivid imagination, but I can't see how this could happen unless someone FORCED their hair into the slot.
I have to ask was the lady who did that a blond?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
All Lincolns are just fancy Fords.
All Infinitis are just fancy Nissans.
While there's obvious parts/platform sharing going on since manufacturers try to spread the cost of the parts/platform across as many different brands and models as possible.
Still, there also has to be enough differentiation between brands that share parts/platforms that the buyer is willing to spend more to get that same differentiation.
Just one data point, I've noticed that the HVAC outlets for most Ford vehicles these days are the same ones found on such disparate vehicles as Mustangs all the way up to Land Rovers. EVen the revered Corvette shares its engine with at least one Pontiac and it's platform with one Caddy. Just a few examples of part/platform sharing.
Bob we have a winner.
I see this all the time with Range Rovers. The Mark III's not so much since those vehicles are much more reliable then the previous generatioins. Even the Mark III's do stupid stupid things sometimes.
The Range Rovers just do dumb things and people say, "Yeah I have had this problem and that problem and it spent two weeks in the shop having that fixed. Can you show me that new one there and how much will it lease out at."
They know there is a good chance of something breaking but they buy another one anyway. Then they buy another one after that. I would say close to half of my Range Rover customers are on their second, third or even fourth Range Rover.
Just had this happen yesterday. Had a woman come in who currently owns a 1994 Classic LWB Range Rover. From a complexity to problem stand point that is probably the worst Rover to own. The air suspension system completly baffels the majority of people to the point that they just do a coil spring conversion on them.
Before that she had a 1989 Classic Range Rover. Here she is looking at a 2002 CPO Range we had for sale that also happend to be one of the limited edition Westminsters. She knows how troublesome Rovers can be but she buys them anyway.
Our salesman was dumfounded at her statement.
We then figured out that the other salesman at the Volvo dealership told her that the upper shoulder harness holder was a "pony tail holder."
All I can say.