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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

110111315162003

Comments

  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    I just don't understand why buying a car has to be such an ordeal.

    Truer words, and all that.

    I've bought cars from several dealerships in town, and each one has been an extremely pleasant experience.

    I think some people look at a relationship with your salesperson as adversarial. There's just no reason for it. There was a bit of this in "old school" car sales, but I honestly wonder how long it's been since some Edmunds' posters have bought a car. I bought my last car 3 years ago, and the negotiation went something like this:

    Me: "Hey man, I'm interested in an '03 Maxima. Do you have one available for test drive?"
    Him: "Sure, my name is XXX (I don't remember), let me make a copy of your license. OK, here are the keys, have fun."
    Me: WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
    Him: "How did you like it?"
    Me: "Great car. Let's go inside and write it up."

    Now, the exact verbiage of everything else here is lost in the sands of time, but I intentionally stated "write it up" as opposed to asking specifically about price. I used those words, because I'm hoping that the green pea standing in front of me is now thinking he has a sale. I look really young for my age, so I always get the green peas.



    Him: "Let me see what I can do for you on this car. I'll go to my manager's office."
    Me: "Sure, no problem."

    Some people may get annoyed when this happens, but there is no conceivable way an 18 year old kid can offer me a "real" price on a car. Plus, it gives my wife and I a chance to talk, just to make sure she liked the car as well.

    He came back with "we can do it for $xxx a month", at which point I said I want to talk total price, not payments. That's really the only point in the conversation where I have to be firm with him, because car salespeople for whatever reason LOVE to talk car price in terms of payments. That much is still a mystery to me.

    Him: "You can take it home for $25k."
    Me: "Actually, I think that $22k is a fair price for this car. That's what I want to pay." (really, the figure is $23k)
    Him: OK, let me go see my manager.

    Now, I'm getting excited, because in past deals the salesperson would scoff at my offer and immediately raise it.

    Him: "23.5k is the best we can do on this car. It's the end of the model year, so we really dropped our pants on this one." (those were his exact words, btw)
    Me: "If you can get it down to $23k + TTL, I'll sign right now."
    Him: "OK, hang on."

    This was fine, so loan app filled out and approved, we had spent around an hour total at the dealership. We left, they detailed it, then we picked it up the next day.

    Why some people turn this into a head-bashing experience, I have no idea.

    The sole piece of car-buying advice I tell people, though (I have a rep as the family/work car nut), is when you're buying a car, take the day off and go in during a business day. Saturdays and weeknights only make things take forever, and nobody is going to be in a particularly good mood. I made the mistake of buying an Oldsmobile on a Saturday, and I swear we were in the dealership for 5 hours. I was close to going postal.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,487
    A few weeks ago when I got my NY State registration renewal in the mail, there was a coupon from FORD that encouraged me to test drive any new FORD vehicle, get the salesperson's signature & dealer code. FORD would subsequently send me a $50 VISA gift card. I stopped by a FORD store on Saturday afternoon after work and was promptly greeted by a salesman at the door.

    Salesman: "HI, welcome to XYZ Ford. My name is Frank. How can I help you today?"

    Me: "Good afternoon, my name is nyccarguy. I don't want to take up anymore of your valuable time than I have to, but I reveived this coupon in the mail from FORD. I have absolutley no intention of buying a new car today or anytime soon. Besides, there's nothing out there that can remotely replace my Prelude (I pointed to my shiny red 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH in front of the showroom) Can you sign it and say I test drove a Fusion."

    Salesman: "(jokingly) that'll be $25 bucks for my signature. Thank-you for being so forthright and honest. You wouldn't believe how many people come in, waste my time by acting like they're interested in a car, test drive the car, and then whip out the coupon from FORD. Let me just check with my manager."

    He goes over to the manager, the guy looks up at me and then signs the coupon.

    Me: "Thank-you very much. Have a great weekend."

    The whole transaction took about 3 minutes. It was the quickest $50 I've ever made.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ColoradoPosts: 0
    LOL, I did the same thing about a year or so ago when the Mariner came out. Walked in and explained I really wasn't interested in the vehicle, just there to get my gift card, who did I need to talk to. The salesman said "well, let's at least go for a ride since you're here, maybe you'll like the car." So I asked if I could fit three car seats across the second row since we had recently been blessed with triplets. He looked at the back seat, went to the manager for a signature and I was out the door within a few minutes :)
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I'm sure the salesperson appreciates the fact you were honest up-front. Thank you!! I don't know of any dealer who likes these types of programs....we get folks who spend 3 hours with a salesperson on a Saturday only to whip out the coupon.."oh, by the way can you sign this"

    This is when I get to practice my time-share closing techniques. I make them sweat more than the value of the prize..LOL
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    I always say I'll be happy to take a test drive and presentation if you insist, but I also say I have no intention of buying at the moment.

    I've never had to take the test drive. :shades:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] ColoradoPosts: 0
    I work within walking distance of about fifteen dealerships. On days like today, low 80s, I love to just go and walk the lot during lunch, see what they have and look around. I'm always approached, which is no big deal, I expect to be and I simply tell them I'm out killing time, not in the market, etc. They usually continue to ask what I'm looking for, what I'm driving now and the like. I sometimes feel like I shouldn't be there, but I love cars and when it's nice, get the added bonus of some exercise. Would this bother you if you were at one of those dealerships? I've become acquaintances with one guy at the Acura dealership who recognizes me from time to time and is very friendly, even said I'm there enough, he should put me to work, LOL.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, some stores work on an "up" system. In other words, the salespeople take turns waiting on customers. Whatever walks in, good or bad, is "their" customer and they are stuck with that "up".

    They may have waited two hours for an up, only to find you on the lot. After determining you are just killing time, they would go to the end of the line and start the waiting game again.

    Our store doesn't operate like that but a lot do.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,272
    british_rover,

    If you are allowed and willing to disclose, I'd be interested in hearing more about some of the components of the "Land Rover Way." It sounds like Land Rover places a lot of quality controls on their dealerships.

    I never thought about the dealers having protected territories until you mentioned it, but it makes sense.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Oh yeah I can do that no problem. Land Rover really touts the Land Rover Way as their retail philosophy and we have brocures on it at the store. I will take one home tomorrow scan it and email it to you if you like. I can email a copy to anyone who wants one and once I have the brocure in front of me I can go over the major points in more detail then I ever could from memory.

    To the person that asked about their being four Land Rover dealers in CT that is technicaly true but Darien is not actually under the same region as the rest of the CT. All of New England is in Market 1 and we have a single Marketing Manager who is our first point of contact with Land Rover on the sales side. She actually just got a promotion and is now the Marketing Manager of a much larger market.

    Darien is part of Market 2 which is pretty much all of New York state. As I understand it that means that most of Darien's territory is in the state of New York and not CT. We almost never run up against Darien.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Thank you for explanation!
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    danf....you could very well be right. Some dealers may indeed get MSRP plus ADM for their cars. I would imagine it's rare, though.

    I would think ADM dealers make the negotiation process even longer and stickier by including ADM stickers. Everyone wants a quick and easy transaction....the buyer and the dealer. While I understand the dealership's desire to maximize profits, how many people actually walk onto the lot and agree to ADM as part of a deal? Again, it just adds complexity and time to a deal, IMHO. It's just another stumbling block as part of getting a transaction completed.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,272
    Nah, if there's a brochure, I'd rather go to my local LR dealer as a stroke, and waste their time for a few hours before asking for the brochure. :P

    Just kidding, if it tells me more than I've been able to dig up on the web, and it's not too much trouble to scan it, go for it.

    All I've been able to find is that it includes knowledgable sales guides, and open and fair transaction processes.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Everyone wants a quick and easy transaction....the buyer and the dealer.

    Not true. The dealer wants a transaction to generate as much profit as possible, given a reasonable (but not excessive) time investment. If the dealership placed its priorities on a rapid close, the process wouldn't involve three seperate groups of salespeople (salesperson, sales manager, F&I), and would not be structured to layer in costs for those buyers who can't negotiate.

    Again, it (ADM) just adds complexity and time to a deal

    It doesn't add complexity if you don't negotiate by using it. The buyer who focuses on it creates his own problems, but there's no requirement that you pay any mind at all to either the Monroney window sticker or any additional markup.

    A smart buyer will simply ignore the window sticker, and begin his negotiations based upon invoice, as it is much easier to get to a lower price if one begins toward the bottom, rather than the top. The ADM is a tactic, but you are not required to pay attention to it.
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    I would think ADM dealers make the negotiation process even longer and stickier by including ADM stickers. Everyone wants a quick and easy transaction....the buyer and the dealer. While I understand the dealership's desire to maximize profits, how many people actually walk onto the lot and agree to ADM as part of a deal? Again, it just adds complexity and time to a deal, IMHO. It's just another stumbling block as part of getting a transaction completed.

    I don't know why this would be true. First off there are plenty of people who are willing to pay whatever it takes to get their dream car. And if that means they've gotta pay a few thou over sticker, that's what they're gonna do.

    Dealers add ADM because some buyers are willing to pay it, simple as that. What could be simpler than the dealer saying, "Our price is $30,000 for this car (which includes a $5000 ADM), and the buyer saying, "I'll take it!"?

    Complexity enters the deal when a buyer sees the $30,000 car but only wants to pay $22,000 which they've determined is the price they should pay. You can't blame the dealer for this.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,272
    Dream car, maybe, or where market conditions dictate (new Mustang), but I've seen market adjustment stickers on Altimas, for crying out loud... That just strikes me as silly, but like Terry says, if you don't ask, you don't get.

    Here's a private-party sales story: A couple of years ago, an elderly family member stopped driving and endeavored to sell her 1986 Buick Century, which had something like 36,000 miles on it, and was in great condition considering it was nearly 20 years old at the time. Tires were in good shape but probably starting to dry-rot. It had a lot of new brake components (due to corrosion, not wear), and the transmission was recently serviced. We told her to ask $2000 and take anything over $1000. She asked $2500 and got $2500. Everyone was shocked, to say the least!

    She passed away this past summer, and in going through her posessions, we found the original window sticker for the car, which was around $16,000 if memory serves.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    Back in the old days, there were a lot of us sales types who would come here but most have left.

    i dunno, isell, sometimes i think that way, but then you see newer folks around, too. So some come and some go and some have been around for quite some time. I mean, for example, something happens like losing brentwood, but then you get a british_rover to join the discussion. I think it all works out in the end. :)

    Then, of course, you have those who are around for a day or 2, ruffle some feathers, and bail. Those are my favs. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Ohh a compliment thank you.

    I have been posting on various types of online boards for close to a decade now and dynamic between the various types of posters has always interested me.

    You got the long time regulars that never really leave but may drop out form time to time.

    The normal regulars have just make a steady couple of posts a day.

    The dablers who flit from topic to topic but never really stay on any one thing. On the negative end they may contribute what is commonly called fluff.

    The high energy types who make a whole bunch of posts in a few days then burn out. These can be both positive and negative.

    The trouble makers and ________ Stirers who just want attention and live to create trouble.

    The trolls who many times are just a seperate identity of another regular poster.

    Then you have the professional trolls who will post under a couple of different identies and may just post normal things for a long time. Just long enough to make people forget who they really are then the cause more trouble then all the other negative groups combined.
  • hummer13hummer13 Member Posts: 4
    There's a lot of salespeople that are lurkers, I imagine. Myself included. I'm the Accessories Manager at my dealership, so I do all of the "high-priced" add-ons that everyone talks about. Not the undercoating protection, but the brush guards and DVD players and all of that.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Never heard of this? Do you actually have a seperate department that sells accessories?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yes, still a Dodger fan! Hey, is Vin Scully still there?
  • daynodayno Member Posts: 5
    Hello...Im glad I found this site! There is alot of info I am interested in here thanks. I am preparing to start a new career as an auto salesman and would love the opportunity to hear the pro's and con's of auto sales as a career from other salesman on the site. I have 12 years experience as a self employed owner operator in 2 different service oriented businesses and every dollar I earned was the result of my selling a service to a customer. I am hoping that this sales experience will translate to some degree into auto sales and that I will find success in that line of work. The only concern I have is that I have heard auto sales is very time demanding but thats not a show stopper for me. I would love to hear any experiences, suggestions or advice you may have to offer to a NoOb auto salesman. ...thanks in advance for your time and help.
  • black_tulipblack_tulip Member Posts: 435
    That goes double for me. I enjoy reading your posts as well. I wish you would encourage your co-workers and friends in the business to participate as well. We need a healthy "people in the business" vs consumers ratio in here.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,272
    People have come and gone over the years. One person (I think he was a salesman) met his future wife here in the early days of Town Hall. I don't know if he still posts here or not.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Dayno,

    I hate to say this, but a lot of stores (most)aren't a lot of fun to work at. MAKE SURE you check out the reputation of the store before you go to work.

    Ask about turnover. How many (if any)veterans they have there. You can wind up in a snakepit if you aren't careful.
  • daynodayno Member Posts: 5
    Hey there isellhondas...thanks for the post. I have read alot of your posts and have valued what you have had to say. You are obviously one of the seasoned pros on this site. I would like to know more about what you have seen that can make a dealership not fun to work at and what makes them a snakepit etc. One thing I feel good about is that the sales manager at the dealership I will be starting at is a freind from back in Jr. High so we have known each other off and on for 20 years or so. He has been at the dealership for 7 years and the finance guy has been there 5. I have wondered why they are highering several new salesman and will ask that tomarrow when I meet with him formally. This particular dealership is one of about 7 in the local area owned by the same family "Leith" all selling different manufacturers BMW, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Chevrolet etc. Almost everything but Ford. My wifes father in law sold for this company at there Mercedes dealership for 11 years. He seemed to think that possibly this dealership was a recruiting station and that they may have moved some people to other dealerships. Anyway I would love to here more of what you have seen that makes life miserable from the dealership side of the equation. That is something I hadn't thought much about or been aware of so I am very curious. Thanks again for your time and for so feely sharing on this site!
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Dayno,
    Which brand will you be at on Capital Blvd? Contact me offline, and I can give you some feedback from trying to buy 3 different cars over the course of the last 10 years.
  • daynodayno Member Posts: 5
    Hey kiawah...I about fell out of my chair when you hit the street name on the head of the dealerships....I will be at Chris Leith Chevrolet if everything pans out...It is a real new dealership probably just over a year old and actually in Wake Forest but right on the Raleigh, WF line there. I tried to figure out how to contact you but couldn't let me know how...thanks
  • jmurman42jmurman42 Member Posts: 675
    That would be me.

    We met online here and are still married with have two awesome kids now.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    jmurman......congrats! Edmunds should do a little blurb about you and your family.

    Last thing I'll say about ADM, I suppose you can dismiss it out of hand. To me, I guess it's about perception. I view them as a hinderance to a deal, or at the very least, an uneeded/unwanted step. In most scenarios, at least for me, I won't shop at those stores who sport ADMs on their vehicles. Maybe there are a lot of you who will. Don't know.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    My wifes father in law sold for this company

    lol. ummm... hmmmm... wouldn't that then be YOUR father?? ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Dayno, I thought of you when I heard this advertisement on the radio yesterday. The local radio station announced that a Chevrolet dealer in a suburb is hiring 45 new salespeople and that NO sales experience is a plus. They said that they are having a professional trainer come in for training.

    They said a person could earn between 60-200K a year with full medical and dental benefits. All are welcome to apply and bilingual is a plus. They mentioned anyone who would like to make a career change like, mortgage loan employees, Real Estate agents, etc. :surprise:

    When a company has a mass hiring such as this, it makes me wonder why they need so many people all of a sudden.................talking about a huge delivery of green peas! :P

    -mark156 :D
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Not unusual in many professions to bring in new hires in groups or "classes" if they have a professional trainer to do the training. Who knows how many will wash out in the first 3 - 6 months, but in auto sales, insurance, real estate sales, it's often a high percentage. So it's more effective and cheaper for a large-ish organization to do group training rather than one-on-one training. Better return on their training investment dollar.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I view them as a hinderance to a deal, or at the very least, an uneeded/unwanted step.

    You are making this harder than it has to be. Just ignore what's on the window, and get the dealer to work from invoice. Both the "official" window sticker and the ADM are tactics -- they only work if you insist on allowing them to work.
  • daynodayno Member Posts: 5
    Yea I think I got that wrong...actually its my wifes brothers father in law is who I was refering too.... :P
  • jmurman42jmurman42 Member Posts: 675
    "jmurman......congrats! Edmunds should do a little blurb about you and your family.
    "


    Yeah we met on the Toyota Echo group. I've mentioned this to the Edmunds folks before. It certainly has been a good thing for us.
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    Have a good sense of humor, grow a thick skin, be a team player, and most importantly, HAVE FUN!
  • biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    jmurman, does your wife still have that Echo? I remember she told a story about the window or door getting stuck somehow and she had to shimmy out, a la Daisy Duke! Cute story. If I'm remembering correctly, that was 6 or 7 years ago, wasn't it?

    Re ADM, socal, you're right that it's a tactic, but it's a tactic that turns off a lot of us right at the start. I agree with graphicguy that I view it as a hindrance. It's annoying.

    In my area, Nissan, Honda, Toyota shops are all pretty thick on the ground. There's no reason to do business with an ADM-sticker-using dealer when there are plenty of others. Whether or not you might get to the same price eventually is irrelevant. It's the tactic itself that's a turn-off. I won't take my car even to be serviced to an ADM place, as I figure it just shows the mentality of the owner to take advantage of the gullible.

    I just bought my new car from the place where I had my old car serviced for the last six years, and I started using them because another dealer, where I had bought my first Nissan way back when I was young and stupid - er, innocent - was an ADM kind of place.

    Personal preference, that's what makes this country great!
  • hummer13hummer13 Member Posts: 4
    Yep, I'm my own little department. Since so many people like to customize and personalize their Hummers, somebody put me in charge of doing it. There's vendors constantly beating at my door as well, so in my GM's opinion it's too much for a parts counterman to deal with (same thing for a sales manager), so I do it all.
  • jmurman42jmurman42 Member Posts: 675
    "jmurman, does your wife still have that Echo? I remember she told a story about the window or door getting stuck somehow and she had to shimmy out, a la Daisy Duke! Cute story. If I'm remembering correctly, that was 6 or 7 years ago, wasn't it? "

    I drive it to work every day...amid the cackling howls of my co-workers. We live about 2 miles form the dealership, so it's pretty economical. We are giving this car to my elder daughter (she's 20 and goes to WVU) and hopefully I'll be able to get a pick-up truck...that is unbless my wife still has the joneses for a Pilot...in which case I'll sell the CR-V and buy a beater trade-in and drive that back and forth.
  • biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Nice story!

    Good to hear that things worked out so well for you, your wife and family.
  • jmurman42jmurman42 Member Posts: 675
    Yeah it has worked out very well.

    --=family, go figure! ;)
  • cluedweaselcluedweasel Member Posts: 150
    The place where I worked prefered people with no auto sales experience. They could train them the way they wanted to and no bad habits to break!
  • wlbrown9wlbrown9 Member Posts: 867
    Hey...are you in the Memphis area? I think I heard the same ad yesterday afternoon driving back in from the golf course.

    Bill
  • au1994au1994 Member Posts: 3,701
    Just wondering if SUV's are taking a hit at the auctions and therefore in trade in numbers with gas prices going up.

    Are the salesmen here seeing people looking to get out of SUV's?

    2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
    2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    SUV's are getting hit big time and it's getting worse as the rumors of 4.00 per gallon by summer are widespread.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    oh boy, that story again, huh? After about the 3rd or 4th time someone said in previous years that it would hit $5 a gallon (and it didn't), I just stopped listening.

    What are the rumors saying will make it go up this time, by the way? oh, wait, maybe this isn't the place to discuss it ...(?) I suppose I could pick up a paper if I'm really curious. It just gets tiring reading that the sky is falling. But I guess they figure if they keep reporting something, it will eventually happen, and they will eventually be right. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, last year at this time, "they" were predicting 3.00 per gallon and that sure came to pass!

    You don't want to get me started on the reasons why! :mad:
  • bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    I RAN out of money....

    So I RAN out of gas.....

    So I RAN to work.....
  • au1994au1994 Member Posts: 3,701
    yep, If there is enough hype stirred up then 4.00/ gallon will happen. There will be enough of a firestorm stirred up that it will cause panic buying, price gouging etc.

    Wait till we have the first hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico. That will probably be enough to do it. Won't matter if it is close to landfall near any refineries or oil rigs.

    2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
    2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    $4/gallon won't happen this year. Maybe next but not this year. At most it will peak at $3.50.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

This discussion has been closed.