Stories from the Sales Frontlines

robr2

...was one of the worst cars ever put into production.

Hey I take umbrage with that. My wife brought a 95 into our marriage and although not a perfect car, it ran. We traded it in with about 140K on it. The used car manager wanted to send it to Ripley's.

kdhspyder

The young guy who comes in riding high in his JACKED up 4 WD truck with $10000+ mods and tires/rims off a CAT roadhauler.

'Uh, son, did you realize that by doing this you cut your resale market to ONE....and he's your little brother who will have his license in 4 yrs.'

Please find me a Corolla to give away quick.

snakeweasel

Well Many years ago me and the wife were looking for either a mini van or an SUV and we were looking around at a Honda dealer. The salesman took me out back to show me a car that I could have at a real good price. They had an SUV there (CR-V IIRC) that was totally pimped out. Had all the ground effects, the lights, paint job, fart can all the works.

It was offered to me right off the bat for around 70-75% of the sticker.

Apparently someone ordered all this and the deal fell through, then this dealership got it in a trade from another dealer.

jsylvester

I remember those late 70's FWD Toronados, Riverias, etc. with the vertical rear windows looked really sharp with the padded vinyl roofs.

Part of the problem is everything looks more and more the same anymore due to aerodynamics and the homogonization of tastes. I for one would love a chromed, woodgrain, and button tufted interior (ala living room on wheels), but you cannot get that even on a Town Car.

This European drab interior look is getting really old to me.

mirth

The used car manager wanted to send it to Ripley's.

LOL.

travler

The best advise I can give is anytime you're frustrated, confused, lost, or down right uncomfortable with the situation DO NOT make a decision. No matter how much pressure being imposed walk away and reorganize your strategy. Always trust your instincts. Tomorrow is another day. A deal shouldn't change that much, if at all, in 24 hours. If there is a deadline it'll be in writing somewhere in the advertising. Ask for proof.

Never leave a deposit unless you completely understand the deal and you have accepted it.

travler

The wheels were probably stolen. Who can afford $5000 tires if they're driving a $1500 car? I guess it's possible.

snakeweasel

Well maybe by buying a $1,500 car saves them the $5,000 for the tires.

golic

...and don't forget the 2,000 -3,000 dollar subwoofer, mega cd-changer and more speakers than a tuesday afternoon rotary club.

I often marvel at the cars which have better sound systems than I have in my own home *headshake*

thebill

Any Honda dealers check out the pilot forum lately?

check out post 5808!

"I just came back from a dealer and placed an order on EX-L 2WD. The base price is 26752, which is $1,900 under invoice, plus freight (550) is $27302. Total out the door price is $29018.05 (include doc fee 99, TTL). The car will be in the dealer lot on Monday and I will test drive it first then sign all the paper works. The buying process is very smooth. The salesman just gave me the price up-front. I am in the MD area. I test drove the car with my wife and both of us were very satisfied with it. It is a wonderful SUV. No vibration at 70 -80MPH, and I will test drive the one I will buy. The VCM works silently and you will see a "ECO" light on in the instrumental panel when it is engaged automatically. We couldn't feel it was running on 3 cylinder and switch back and forth. Hopefully this will improve some mileage."

This was supposedly first pencil on a LOCATE!!!!

yeah, right

snakeweasel

I often marvel at the cars which have better sound systems than I have in my own home *headshake*

Really? I usually end up cursing them.

isellhondas

I usually stay out of the "Prices Paid" forums because of all of the "false information".

Trouble is, people read these postings and come to me wanting to do even better!

mitzij

Is there any way to post this on Edmunds' front page?
Excellent, perfect advise!

british_rover

I guess I will pick and choose on the details and which ones to tell.

This past friday I had a couple of guys come in wanting to test drive a Supercharged Range Rover Sport. I was across the street getting lunch for myself and our F&I manager when they came in. He had already sat them down gotten the necessary information and made a copy of their liscense. He steps out of the room with me to give me some back ground information.

My first response is that they can't test drive the Supercharged Sport cause we only have one and our other sales guide sold it last night. The day before was our F&I guys day off and that day was our other sales guides day off. I just hadn't mentioned that the car was sold yet.

So we look a little silly but thats ok just tell them that they cannot test drive the Supercharged Sport but they can test drive one of the regular ones. They also wanted to test drive one of 2004 Range Rovers. The particular one they wanted to test drive was sold but we do have one very similar to it. Ok cool got a plan so lets go in and say we are sorry and explain what needs to be done.

So we go in and start explaning the situation to the guys. We don't even get half way into the explination when they start getting upset. Well specificly the guy who said he was interested in buying the car starting getting upset. His buddy just sat there not saying anything.

We told him he could test drive a regular sport but no he only wanted to test drive the supercharged one.

No, sorry you cannot that car is sold and we do not test drive sold cars.

Well then he wants to test drive our black 2004 Range Rover.

No, I am sorry that car is sold but you can test drive the silver one which is pretty much identical to it.

Now he is really getting upset starting to get all red in the face and such.

He stands up and starts talking to his buddy saying how this is just what happend when he bought his Five, reffering to the 2001 Five series he would be trading in, the guys at BMW would not show him any respect because he was young and dressed "like a punk". Those are his exact words too.

Yeah and the next day I came back and put down 20,000 dollars cash to buy one of their cars but I made sure I didn't work with any of the people there the day before.

Now he is really upset and starting to cuss us out he starts asking if we gave him his ID back which we had about 5 minutes ago. He pulls out a money clip flips it open and makes a big show of fingering through all the cash in it to find his ID.

I saw a few hundred dollar bills in there and it was a pretty thick clip. If they were all hundreds he probably had 3,000-4,000 dollars in the clip. The whole time he is talking about how he owns three businesses and five houses and he never gets any respect because of how he chooses to dress.

Now it is just a funny situation cause he is trying so hard to show how much money he has and how rich he is that it is almost emberassing.

He stomps out of the office and tries to leave the showroom but he tries to open the wrong door. He goes to push on it and it does not open since that is the big door that we use to bring cars in the showroom. He about hits his head on the glass and then tries to pull the door open. It still does not open cause it is locked and he finaly opens the other door.

The whole time he is yelling at us and cussing. As he gets to his car he flips us the bird.

At this point we are both trying not to laugh and eventually give up fighting it.

Now I specificly left out this guys apperance from the story because I did not want this to influence you even by accident. He was dressed like a punk with baggy torn jeans, untied sneakers, two or three gold chains, wife beater t-shirt, big baggy jacket and a base ball cap turned crooked on his head.

I have sold cars to people who have dressed "worse" then that and they paid with cash so I do not prejudge people based on what they wear. I will however judge people based on how they act and this guy was a punk that dressed the part too.

He also drove up in a pimped out escalade with 22 inch dubs on it and enough chrome to sink a battleship.

Ahhh but the story continues....

And you can read the rest of it tomorrow cause I am going to bed.

snakeweasel

He pulls out a money clip flips it open and makes a big show of fingering through all the cash in it to find his ID.

My experience is those that carry wads of cash do it just to impress others. The cheap ones have singles between a couple of hundreds. Plus they usually don't have all that much money to begin with, not that they are poor but not rich. Most rich people I know usually walk around with less than $100 in their pockets.

Your description of him fits.

biancar

...if you know exactly how much money you have - you don't have very much. ;-)

mikefm58

Good story, I look forward to today's update. The guy just doesn't fit the mold in the book "Millionaire Next Door".

jipster

The "punk" sounds a bit like a drug dealer(i.e pimped out Escalade, carrying a lot of cash, gold chains...and a baseball cap turned sideways on the head indicates gang involvement...or a wanna be). Did he say what type of business he was in? He said he had five houses...maybe they were crack houses.

Any of you guys in the "bidness" ever have someone pay cash, as in a briefcase full of cash, for a automobile?

ezshift5

...very, very entertaining tale.

..and I regret you and your buds have to deal with 'scrotes like that...

..two Q's - if I may....

..1. What's the ratio (good to bad) customer behavior?

.....would 80/20 (good to bad) be close?

..2. 22-inch dubs? Would those be wheels with the two plates......one of which continues to spin at a stop sign?

..again, appreciate the notes from the firing line...

best..ez

mark156

British_Rover... can't wait to hear the continuation of your "punk" story.

When I was buying my 2006 LR3 HSE, there was a guy in the showroom that looked really scruffy and was about 60ish in age. My salesman had finished waiting on him then started to help me. The "ole dude" kept coming over to my salesmans desk (sitting out on the showroom floor) and asking more questions, apparently, of which my salesman had already given him answers to.

My salesman said "sir" we can not let you drive our new Jaguar without a driver's license. I'll be more than happy to drive the car for you with you as a passenger so that you can feel how the car rides, etc. The "ole dude" mumbled something and said Ok... and then wanted to look at a figure of the amount of the check he would need to bring in. My salesman gave him a readout off of the computer with the total figure that included tax, etc. Then, the man walks out.

My curiosity got the best of me so I just asked my salesman what was the guys story. My salesman said that the man told him he was released from a 12 step facility and lost his driver's license due to drunk driving but will get it back soon. And, that he wanted to pay cash for a new Jag sedan. The salesman said that he treats all customers the same even if they are a little weird. (He has more patience than I do). This "guy" was a piece of work in my book.

To be a salesman, you have to have a lot of finesse. :surprise:

-mark156

bigdveedubgirl

I have been on the reverse side myself. I was In Las Vegas a few years back,for the VW Guild which is the top 30 salespeople in the southwest. I went to a timeshare presentation on a bus out to some resort and before they do the presentation they have mininmum income requirements and minimum age requirements. I was just by 2 days meet the age requirements and I met the income requirements also. The gentleman who did the prestation who was a old crappy 70s tv actor saw my income he said "there is no way you make that much selling cars, I used to sell cars and there is no way you make that much." and proceeded to tell me that I was lying and that the next bus would be there in 45 min. I told him that it was true and the reason I was in Vegas to begin with. And he made a big scene and I said "Well maybe you were just not that good at it!" And my friend and I walked out and called a cab to get back to the strip.

But as for shady deals, truly shady deals, people do what is called a straw purchase. Like lets say Jimmy has bad credit, or no credit, or is a felon with a suspended license, or has no papers, he gives his money to a friend to buy the car for him. And he has nothing to do with it. Or if financing and his credit is bad, he has someone finance it for him.(not a co-x).

We had someone recently buy a car for his girlfriend and he financed it, and she was currently incarcerated. But since he bought it and was the primary driver, we let it go through. He bought a $8,000 set of wheels and tires for this car (I must say its the sweetest looking A4 in town) and paid cash money for them. Last week we got served with a search warrant from the FBI to get all records that pertain to him. Stay tuned for any details. :blush:

But bottom line, money talks and I have been doing this for a long time and I know I have made some good money off of people who did not look like they could buy a rollerskate, so to me bad taste, bad clothes, bad breath (well that one sucks sometimes) I will treat everyone the same. Now that guy at the ROver store, he was just rude and i wouldnt want to sell him a car anyway even if he had money to back up the bling!

sbell4

IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT PUNK WAS LOOKING FOR A GOOD BUY...AND THAT IS WHAT YOU GAVE HIM, A GOOD BYE!!!

Life is way too short to put up with any type of crap like that.

jipster

"a old crappy 70's tv actor"

I'll bite...was it Danny Bonaduche? That guy, Horseshack, from Welcome Back Kotter?

oarsdad

I'm not being sarcastic. With a couple exceptions I do not understand why people trade in their vehicles. I would like to her from the salesmen as to why their "trade in" customers do it.

The exceptions that I can understand/think of:

1. You have enough money and you don't really care about the money you're losing by trading in.

2. You're a single female living alone and you have safety concerns. You don't feel comfortable having strangers come over for the test drives.

But, excluding these exceptions, I truly don't get it. What I'm I missing.

A personal example. A few months back I sold my '01 Odyssey and bought an '06 Odyssey. At the time, KKB said my '01 had about a $13000 trade in value and about an $18000 retail value. Private party was near the middle of those two - about $15500. I was able to do better than the PP value but lets say I got just the $15500 PP value for the '01 Ody.. That is still a $2500 difference. Lets also say I didn't want to give the car a bath so I spent $200 on a detail job and another $50 on some newspaper advertising. Also, if I trade it in I think I reduce my sales tax on the new vehicle by the amount of the trade in (ie. $13000 x 6% (MI sales tax rate)).

Sell myself
$15500
- 200 detailing
- 50 classified
- 780 savings in taxes $13000 x .06
= $14470
- 13000 Trade in value
= 1470

Maybe it also takes 5 hours of ones time to write the ad and be available for people to test drive.

$1470/5 hrs = almost $300/hour.

So unless your time is worth more than $300 an hour why would you trade in your car. Unless of course you are one of the 2 exceptions. I realize this is one example and if your trading an older vehicle then the money one would be flushing down the "terlit" would be less. What I'm I missing.

My father-in-law is a perfect example. He will drive 3 miles out of his way to save $.03/gallon on gas - about $.60 total on the fill up. Then he will go flush $1000 trading in his car.

David

geo9

DAVE........Even putting aside the difference in the
sales tax you would pay,running to the bank to pay off
the balance of loan you may have, waiting for a new
title or release of lien, putting up with the joyriders,
strokes and looky loos.

Not to mention if they have mechanical issues and blame
you for not disclosing them even if your sales statement
is carefully worded "as-is, no warranty expressed or
implied etc. etc."
Most states they can still drag you to small claims
court and make quite a hassle..........

You have to remember the "retail" book value in MOST
cases CANNOT be borrowed from a bank on a private
party sale. The most a bank will give you is LOAN
value which in most cases is THOUSANDS less than retail.

Most folks don't have the difference in cold hard cash
and are payment buyers! Not everybody has $15k+ cash
laying around either..............

Thats where Mr Dealer comes into play and EARNS that $$$.
He can provide full financing, warranty, etc.........
Not to mention putting up with any issue the buyer might
have..........

Lets face it...For most folks its easier not to mention
Mr. Dealer has to make a few bucks too. Selling a new
XYZ mobile at cost don't pay the employees or keep the
lights on..............

mikefm58

I agree with you David as far as the finances are concerned between trading and selling it yourself. I too doubt if I'll ever trade in a vehicle again, just doesn't make financial sense.

golic

I think you are too cavalier over the safety issues.

I am not a female and the idea of placing an ad in ebay, newspaper etc, then inviting people to my house just makes me nervous.

1. Do I really want to go on a test drive with this person?

2. If I don't, will I let them take the car for their own test drive, mechanic check and who is to say the drivers license they give me is even real.

3. What if they wreck the car in the process of the test drive/mechanic check?

4. Do I have time to field phone calls at work? What if they want to see during the day? Do I have time to leave work to go into the parking lot to show a car?

5. Am I supposed to collect sales tax? What if I don't? Wiil the State send me a bill 90 days later wanting sales tax I didn't collect?

6. What if it takes me 2-3 months to sell the car? Now I ether have 2-3 extra car payments on top of my new one OR I will be paying additional interest on the money I had to borrow to pay-off the vehicle so I can get the lien.

7. Will their check bounce? Is this a real "certified check"?

8. Since, they now have my home/office number and now where I work/live everytime there is a problem are they going to call me up and harass me?

9. What if something breaks and now there is a major repair? Now I HAVE to fix it in order to sell it.

There are many many factors that come up over the sale of the car and when I recently bought a new car I had the very same intention of trying to do this myself and you are right, the UPSIDE is about $1,000 - $2,000.

But there is a significant downside chance that that $1,000 can dissappear before you know it OR you end up with nutcase who stalks you, steals the car, or hauls your rear end in court.

Bottom line, unless you have lots of time it just was not worth the aggravation to me, YMMV. My resolution was to detail my car ($200) and shop it around to places that bought used cars. I took it to CarMax, I took it to a ma/pa used car lot and had REAL quotes in my hand when I went to the dealer and offered the trade-in, rather than relying on KBB, TMV, etc....

I gave myself options so I didn't have to rely on the dealer and if they didn't want it I had valid quotes from companies that did.

I have asked Edmunds more than once to put up a forum for how to sell your car on your own...I think the information would be invaluable. But those requests have fallen on deaf ears.

1racefan

Kind of goes back to the old "time is money" thing. A lot of people I know would leave $1000-$2000 on the table just out of the sake of convenience.

thebill

Last day of the month, not enough time between appoinments to read that much.

golic

SELL SELL SELL!!!!

GOOD LUCK ON CLOSING OUT THE MONTH!!

MAY YOU GET HAPPY MINI'S FROM EDMUNDS CUSTOMERS AND MAY YOU BE BLESSED WITH MSRP'S, WHEEL LOCKS, MUDGUARDS, AUTO-START, AND GOLD MEDALLIONS ON ALL OTHERS!

CARPE DIEM.