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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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1) People who set up an appointment to drive your car and don't show up.
2) People who "test drive" the car with NO INTENT to buy.
3) People who cannot come up with the cash for the vehicle so you sit there for 2-3 days.
4) The person who buys the car and then harasses you when a minor problem arises in a car with 150k miles.
Sounds like what salespeople at dealers go through every day.... :P
Sometimes I met people near the DMV office, so we could do the title transfer easily. My cars were always both well-maintained and paid off, so there weren't any issues of trying to get the title transferred on a non-paid for car. Usually I sold to one of the first people who showed up in response to the ad, as the cars were always priced fairly (less than dealer prices, more than what I would have gotten on a trade-in) and again, were in good condition, so they were a good deal for the buyers.
In my neighborhood - a middle-class NYC suburb - plenty of folks are looking for an affordable & reliable 1st car for their about-to-reach-driving-age offspring. We also have 50-something guys shopping for a station car so that they don't have to leave their precious Boxsters in the railroad station parking garage. If you have a well-maintained vehicle that you're willing to sell for $10K or less, you can find a buyer within 2 or 3 days - simply by letting it be known that you're ready to sell. There's no need to pay for ads or deal with strangers. My experience has convinced me that the demand, at least in my area, for realistically priced good used cars far exceeds the supply.
Now this may not hold true for you if you live in a sparsely populated area or if you're looking to get rid of something that's pricier, but I can't help suspecting that my experiences aren't unique to my area.
I'm not saying that I'll never again trade in, but I won't offer my car to a dealer without 1st seeing what the local market will pay me for it.
On your 2001 Ody, as an example...it has a $13,000 trade in value and retails at $18,000. If you had placed an ad in the paper and listed it as $14,000, how long do you think it would last? Probably a day or two, and you selling it to the first or second potential buyer...with little effort or cost, you come out ahead $1,000(forget the $200 detailing, do it yourself)
You may not believe this but I have seen certified checks and money orders bounce. In both cases it was the issuing orginazations blunder that caused it to happen and they made good on it, but they bounced just the same.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You may not believe this but I have seen certified checks and money orders bounce. In both cases it was the issuing orginazations blunder that caused it to happen and they made good on it, but they bounced just the same.
There's also the recent "trend" of fake bank checks... conterfeit or forged....
Once I clear some more stuff off my desk I will continue my story and add another.
On newer/more expensive cars, it is less clear. They can be harder to sell (you are competing against dealers now), you often have to deal with a payoff to get a title, buyers have to finance, and the sales tax credit is more significant.
I have sold many cars myself, and traded in 3 (I think). Most expensive private sale was about 10.5K (a Miata), couple others about 8K.
In each case, the deal made sense. A Voyager that they offered way more than I expected (as much as i would have listed it at private) which I didn't want to do since it had "issues"
My tC made sense, because i got high end trade value, and I doubt I would have gotten much more private, certainly not enough to offset the 1Kish tax savings. Plus having to deal with all the people that needed a loan, etc.
I also traded in a maxima, largely because they offered more than I expected, although I really should have tried to retail it 1st, but I didn't have time at that point.
In other cases, I got a trade offer, it was too low, so I sold it myself.
Each deal is different.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
running to the bank to pay off
the balance of loan you may have, waiting for a new
title or release of lien, putting up with the joyriders,
strokes and looky loos.
I had not thought about the loan payoff and release of lien. All of my cars have been paid for when I sold them, but obviously that is not always the case. As for the joy riders, that's one of the things I would put up with for $300/hour (in my example).
My guess is the number of joy riders one would get is in direct proportion to how fun the car is to drive. If true, then us minivan sellers are probably immune from the joy riders.
Thats where Mr Dealer comes into play and EARNS that $$$.
He can provide full financing, warranty, etc.........
True enough. I guess the dealers don't care much for my type given I have no trade in, don't finance through them, and purchase my cars at invoice.
Even though they make money on the trade in's - Last month I had a Toyota salesman strongly encourage me to not trade in my Camry. He said to put it in the paper and it would sell in 1-2 days.
David
You're forgetting the tax penalty and cost of the ad. So now you're down to ~$150 for all your time and effort.
and that's exactly the point I was going to get to with the first poster. First of all, you're example uses a Honda Odyssey. VERY few cars are as in demand and easy to sell. Second of all, the KBB values mean absolutely nothing. We need to look at the real-world market.
If you are a savvy shopper, you can easily get a vehicle from a dealer for $1500-$2000 over wholesale (ie, trade-in value). SO, on a typical vehicle with a trade-in value of $13000, you could get that from the dealer for $14,500 ... but let's say $15000. I'm not a dealer, I don't have the exposure, I don't have the resources, I don't have the ability to back my products. As such, I must be cheaper than a dealer (hence, private party value). I find that PP and Retail differ by about half the profit. SOOO... that leaves a price somewhere around $1k over trade-in value ... maybe $1500 if you're lucky.
As stated above, once you subtract advertising, detailing, signage, tax penalty, blood, sweat, and tears, I do not find it worth it when dealing with a more expensive vehicle. ON a cheaper vehicle (let's say under $10k), its a different story.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It's just my opinion, but I think the average customer is interested in only two things.........1: how much new car can I get for the lowest possible monthly payment?....... and 2: how quickly can I get it?
A 'trade in' represents the easiest and quickest way for most people to get behind the wheel of that shiny new car! :shades:
I think you are too cavalier over the safety issues
It was not my intent to brush off safety as a "female only issue". In fact, now that I think about it, your safety point and the fake payment issue are the two on your list I would be the most concerned about. However, for me, I'm willing to take those risks. Like snakeweasel said in post #412, it's ultimately up to the individual.
I'm sure if I had ever had a safety scare when selling a car I would transform to being a "trade in'er". I think its similar to when your wife is pregnant. There are a million things that can go wrong but, most of the time, they don't.
to put up a forum for how to sell your car on your own...I think the information would be invaluable
I agree. It would be a good way to get some ideas on safety during test drives(short of carrying Mr. Smith and Wesson)etc..
David
Actually I sold it to the first customer who came by for 16K, so I ended up 3K ahead, minus the sales tax credit I didn't realize($780) = about $2200. I realize, like gbrozen said in post #424, the Ody is easier to sell than some other vehicles. For me, with this particular vehicle, it was a no brainer.
David
Thank you,
David
You did OUTSTANDING! I don't know where you live or the details of your vehicle, but an '01 Ody EX with average miles (~60k) is only an $11k-$11.5k trade-in here in the northeast.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
David
It's one of the most basic capitalistic concepts in our business world - whichever party does the work should get the benefit.
You sell it - you get $3000 less costs
You trade it - the dealer gets $3000 less costs.
Young guy & his father trade a 5-Series Bimmer into us on an SUV. The Used Car Mgr, does the normal walkaround and drive and runs the VIN through CarFax. All clean. The transaction is done on a Saturday when it's JAMMED.
Monday we put it through the shop on a Used Car PDI and whoaaaaa!!!! The VIN on the dash doesnt match the VIN on the engine.... or the VIN on the frame!!!! This vehicle was assembled in plants all over the SouthEast. :surprise:
Well we call the guy, but lo and behold he suddenly shows up back at our store on Monday to get something he forgot in his Bimmer. 'Could you hold on, sir while we get the vehicle ( Call to Fraud Dept of the State Police Barracks 600 yrds away )'. The showroom is swamped by 4 cruisers and 10 officers. The alleged perpetrator is taken away for questioning and his SUV is left in our lot.
That night his father comes by and demands to collect his SUV which he signed for and financed properly. Whatever issues we have with his son and the allegedly chopped Bimmer ( father was not on the BMW title ) has nothing to do with him and he wants his SUV now. We dont give it to him but a few days later his lawyer does come and collect it. We are out $15000 which was the trade-in value.
Do not attempt this at home. These are trained professionals on a closed course.
When I sold VW, I sold a car to a lady who bought it with fake info. She bought a Used Beetle and brought her son with her, and even let us take a picture of her with the car!
Well, once we found out that her social was fake, and her down payment check was on a closed account we, attempted to repo the car. My General Manager wanted to save some money so he had US take the parts truck to repo the car, and we went to the hotel she was supposedly living in. (She was on the Lam and even her family gave her up) We did not see the car, but we went to her door and try to just get the car back and we would not press charges. I sat in the truck because I really wanted nothing to do with the whole deal, and the son answered the door and sicked a pit bull on my coworker.
Then we found out From the Pasdadena Auto Theft Task Force, that she was part of a Auto Theft Ring. They caught her, the Beetle had already been chopped, and we proscuted and she got 3 years in the POKEY!!!
I realize that the car was made up of many different cars' parts, but to play devil's advocate and to give them the benefit of the doubt.... they could have just bought the car like that from someone else and not have known. I mean, someone else might have been the "evil doer." :confuse:
If you were rather naive and didn't know anything about cars, I'm sure you could have bought a car from a private party or mom-n-pop lot like that.... and then get burned later like that customer.
If the son got off, looks like the dealership got had for the 15k?
For the uninitiated into the ways of the punk a Dub is a big freakin wheel so big in fact that the vehicle probably does not drive right anymore but that is ok cause you look as Paris Hilton would say, "so hot". They used to be anything 20 inch or larger but I think now you have to be at 22 inch or larger to qualify for Dub status. Spinners are a different type of wheel, although they are normally large as well, that have a separate spinning section in some special design.
But back to the story...
So we have our good laugh and then talk with service about it for about 10 minutes before getting back to work. It is a friday early afternoon so not much going on. I am just catching up on paperwork and making phone calls and emails.
About 30 minutes or so after they leave our F&I guy gets a call from one of his former employees who is now a manager at one of our other stores. Our original complex of three dealerships houses our main buisness offices along with the offices of the company directors and owners. Anyway just to simplfy things we will call my F&I guy Bob and his former employee Jack.
So Jack calls Bob and starts telling him what happened when our two punks came screaming into his dealership screaming that they want to talk to the owners and they want us, meaning me and Bob, fired for not letting them test drive a car and discriminating/disrespecting them. Unfortunately for them the first person they ran into was not just Jack but one of the owners cousins as well who knows both Bob and myself very well. After they actually hear the story from these guys mouths it is all they can do to keep from laughing and just booting them out of the showroom.
After they try to explain to these guys that once a car has a deposit on it it is considred sold and is only driven, at the most, two more times before delivery. Once by the salesman to fill it up with gas and a second time by one of the techs to make sure everything is working fine.
Sometimes the tech will fill the car up with gas for us so then it is only driven once.
These guys just don't get it and when they see another sport, not a supercharged one by the way but just happens to have the 20 inch wheel option, sitting back by the body shop they demand to know why they can't drive that one and why is it hidden way over there. I guess they did not notice that it had real plates on it and shattered rear spoiler where the wife of one of my customers backed it into an overhang.
Jack and the cousin just look at these guys and polietly escort them out of the building. Once they get them outside they tell them in no uncertain terms that they are never welcome on any dealership property ever again and to please remove themselves from the property post haste or they will face the police.
Stay tuned for my next story about my client who just got arrested by the FBI.
Good Luck!
Keep those stories coming too..........
The 2 part ones are the BEST and keep us on the "edge"!
Our old pal Mackabee used to thrill us with them but
rarely visits us anymore..............
If it is old and worn out, I will private party those, as the expectations of the buyer is the car is old and worn out.
However, if the car is something I don't want to drive, I certainly don't want to sell it to a private party, and have them hassle me a month or two later over some repair issue. With the nutjobs out there today, who needs the hassle or risk? NOt to mention, if I disclose, "The car is a piece of crap", who is going to buy it?
I'm currently in the Military stationed in Utah, yet a resident of Pa. I'm in the market for a new vehicle and I've located one at a dealership in Pa via emaymotors.
A friend of mine told me that if I go and purchase the vehicle in Pa and have it registered in PA then I will not pay sales tax. Is this true. Also, does it matter which state I have a license in?
For example, I live in Illinois, and buy most of my cars in Ohio. When I pick up the car in Ohio, I pay NO sales tax to the state of Ohio. When I go to register the car in Illinois, I have to write a large check to the Illinois Department of Revenue for use tax.
This week, I moved a fleet car from Missouri to Illinois. I had to write a big check for the USE tax on the remaining cap value of the vehicle I transferred.
In other words, there is ***NO** free ride. If there was, everyone would deal with out of state dealerships.
I personally don't know anything about it, but I think he was referring to his military status....
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
This particular customer just signed a 5 year note for a close to 100k dollar Range Rover.
Our bank rep was browsing the local news site when he sees a name that catches his eye. Clicks on the story and realizes it is the same guy who just bought said Range Rover. He was just arrested by the FBI for every version of fraud in the books including but not limited to; wire, bank, mail, tax.
He calls us hoping that maybe it is a different guy with the same name who just happens to live in the same town. After reading the article we realize nope it is the same guy.
The bank is just a little bit nervous right now.
Don't worry about them, they have got all kinds of credit derivatives in their portfolio.
So this guy had committed all this fraud and nothing showed up in the credit report? Not even a bounced check?
Amazing.
Then the bank deserves to worry.
It could even be an issue of identity theft ..... one of the dealers I know in DC just signed off the 3rd Benz in 30 months to the "same person" ... right ID info - wrong face, wrong person .l.o.l...
Terry.
I caught the tail end of a t.v commercial a couple days ago talking about a new reality t.v show featuring car salespeople. The "contestants" who sell the most and scores the highest in negotiation skills moves on to the grand prize. Green peas get squashed. Anyone have a date and time on this program? I want to see what you guys are really like.
Interesting.... You know that for ratings sake, they'll get the slimiest guys as possible.
http://www.choppercars.com/realitytv.html
Not exactly the type of place I would shop. Then again, it's Vegas baby!!
Comes on tonight at 10p.m on A&E.
But, I can't say I cared for the high pressure methods they use in selling cars. Having 5 or 6 salespeople standing in front of the showroom window scanning the horizon for "prey" would scare(put) me off. One salesmans persistence in not letting a customer walk off the lot paid off in a sale. One gentleman came in with his wife and baby...with a budget of $300 a month. He left with a $430 a month payment but seemed happy about it. An older gentlemen, at the end of the show, looked beaten(literally). He just signed for a truck at $700 a month. Which he didn't "appear" that he could afford. None of the customers shopped price...they just wanted a low monthly payment. Many though ended up biting off more than they could chew.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
When the program would show the monthly payment,I figured the new cars were at least 5 year loans and the used was a 4 year for the PT Cruiser(@$320/mo.).
The Durango seemed to be the car the salesman were steering everyone towards because of the high rebate financing would be easier.
As far as the car salesman prowling the lots, I agree that is very anoying.I stopped at a dealer like that once. Two salesman and the girl greeting everyone pounced on me. After my free bag of popcorn I had to beat my way to the door to get out.
You ate the popcorn, you were obligated to buy a car. :P
james
The couple with the kids that bought the Charger for $439 w/10K down, needed to get out from under their Jetta, so I'm sure there was negative equity...but they had to have the HEMI, right?
I didn't see anywhere that some one asked..."Whats your invoice?" or "How much holdback is there?" I'm sure there are those who would ask those questions, but I don't know how far you'd get with those type of questions.
Has anyone here that lives in Vegas ever been to that dealership?
That explains why I didn't last!
Mark