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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

14579102003

Comments

  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,458
    We actually had a guy send us an offer for 25,000 dollars on a used car we had on our lot. The same day we had another guy come in and ask the famous, "Well what is the best price you will sell that Lexus out front for?"

    Our first question was which one we have about a dozen. He goes the one all the way out front the LX whatever one. Oh you mean blahs blahs car yeah that is a great one owner trade for a supercharged Range Rover. (Golic acutally knows who owned that particular car previoiusly)

    US: Well sir have you driven it yet?
    Him: Well no I just want to know what you will sell it for.

    (Ok sidenote if you want to buy a new car with out test driving that particular car then that is fine but since every used car is a little different you should really drive it first before you start trying to negotiate. We will take you more seriously if you do.)

    Continuing the story...

    US: Well you really should drive it first to make sure it is the car you want before we start talking numbers.
    Him a little agitated now: What you don't want to sell me the car? Do you have a problem with me or something?

    US: Uhh no of course not here sit down and we will see what we can come up with.

    We show him how we came up with the asking price and that it is such and such below TMV, KBB, NADA etc. and that we think this is a fair price.

    Him: fine whatever what will you sell it to me.
    US: Sir you obviously have a number in mind why don't you just tell it what it is and we will see if we can come to an agreemant. We think the price listed on the vehicle is already a substantial discount from regular retail pricing but we would of course consider other offers.

    Him: Ok fine 23,500 dollars.
    US: No, that is never going to happen you are asking for a 4,000 dollar discount on top of the ____ discount we have already given from normal retail asking prices.

    Things go back and forth for a little while and a price around 25,800 is eventually settled on.

    Now if the other guy who emailed in the 25,000 dollar offer had come in person and made the that offer and not been a jerk about it he very well could have bought the car at that price. We would have course tried to bump him but if he had just been nicer then this guy on top of offering a more reasonable price instead of a stupid low ball offer then I think we could have come to agreemant.
  • If I know the invoice price and all the dealer incentives, I know a dealer's real cost. I then would make an offer based on my understanding on what a dealer's fair profit is. If the dealer would accept and make a few hundred more, than if I would have bargained for several hours face-to-face, so be it. If the dealer would tell my offer is too low, I would wish him all the best and ride the bus for another year. It's all about perceived value and fairness, about feeling good buying a car, about saving both your dignity and the dealer's.
  • socala4socala4 Posts: 2,427
    I don't think that you realize that it is your outlook and unwillingness to negotiate that makes it difficult. If you embrace the process and try to have fun with it, then it is actually very easy and quite entertaining.

    You're expecting the dealers to change their behavior when they have no reason to. I find it most practical to accept that people have reasons to behave as they do, and the best thing to do is to adjust to match their tactics. (Perhaps years of dating has taught me that it's often easier to accept the ground rules and make them work for me than it is to try to rewrite them when no one is going to let me.)
  • Perhaps, it's the dealers who have to embrace me as a customer, and try to adjust to make me as happy as possible? The last thing I want is to be patronizing a dealer who expects me to adjust my behavior to match his selling habits. The good thing about free market is that there are plenty of choices out there, and no one has to deal with a dealer who does not appreciate a customer's business
  • socala4socala4 Posts: 2,427
    Perhaps, it's the dealers who have to embrace me as a customer, and try to adjust to make me as happy as possible?

    Their inability to make you happy doesn't seem to be interfering with their method of doing business.

    In any case, you are permitted to avoid negotiation under the current model, just expect to pay a lot more if you do. Negotiation is not mandatory, just an essential process to getting a lower price.

    The last thing I want is to be patronizing a dealer who expects me to adjust my behavior to match his selling habits.

    The dealer doesn't expect you to game him, few buyers actually do this. When I advise you to game him, it's for your sake, not his.

    The good thing about free market is that there are plenty of choices out there, and no one has to deal with a dealer who does not appreciate a customer's business

    If you pay full price, they're not only going to appreciate your business, they're going to love you to death and hope to meet all of your friends.

    The marketplace is this way by design, and you ain't one of the designers. Negotiation is a normal human behavior, like small talk and flirting, and it's to your advantage to excel at all three of them. There's nothing wrong or indecent about doing them, and doing them well.
  • Their inability to make you happy doesn't seem to be interfering with their method of doing business.

    ----- But it certainly interferes with their bottom line. And if they don't understand it, the competitor gets my business. I won't be buying another GM product any time soon, and not because my Malibu had problems, but because various GM dealers I went to for service were, at one point or another, unhelpful, lying, and rude. That's how they do business, you see. And GM is facing bankruptcy. Quite a coincidence :)

    In any case, you are permitted to avoid negotiation under the current model, just expect to pay a lot more if you do. Negotiation is not mandatory, just an essential process to getting a lower price.

    ------ I will still negotiate, but it will be much quicker. I will make an offer based on what I think is fair profit for the dealer. If the dealer accepts, the negotiation resulted in a sale. If rejects, then no sale. The price I'd end up paying may or may not be lower than the price people would pay for the same vehicle at the same dealer's, if they would spend ten hours negotiating.

    If you pay full price, they're not only going to appreciate your business, they're going to love you to death and hope to meet all of your friends.

    ----- Again, I'll pay only what I think is fair to the dealer. I don't want to feel ripped off, and, by the same token, I don't want to feel like I am ripping the dealer off or wasting his time with ridiculous offers.

    Negotiation is a normal human behavior, like small talk and flirting, and it's to your advantage to excel at all three of them.

    ------ Considering that small talk sometimes brings negative consequences, and flirting often results in nasty things crawling in your private areas, I'd put vehicle price negotiation up there as being one of the areas of human life which is dubious at best :)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,098
    Please update the e-mail address in your profile - tried to e-mail you (NOT a nastygram!) and it bounced. Thanks!

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  • turboshadowturboshadow Posts: 349
    Done!
  • thebillthebill Posts: 194
    quick side note....

    The govenment will never let the Big 3 go bankrupt.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 16,273
    I will still negotiate,

    You don't negotiate, you present an offer thats a take it or leave it. Thats not negotiation thats called making an offer, while it is part of negotiating it is not the whole process.

    The price I'd end up paying may or may not be lower than the price people would pay for the same vehicle at the same dealer's, if they would spend ten hours negotiating.

    Odds are the price you pay will be more than someone who negotiates. Also you have to get rid of the mindset that negotiating a lower price takes hours of time. If it does someone is dong something wrong.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • ezshift5ezshift5 West coastPosts: 858
    ....The marketplace is this way by design, and you ain't one of the designers. Negotiation is a normal human behavior, like small talk and flirting, and it's to your advantage to excel at all three of them.

    ....interesting...(no arguement here)....

    ..for my flawless, well-engineered Honda 6M coupe, I used CarsD.....following three (foothills, circa UCD, and the state capital) non-productive dealership visits.

    ..multiple Crown Royals at a watering hole of your choice await the most cogent comment addressing this purchase avenue..........

    ..best, ez..
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    i never understood the whole "i'll give the dealer what i think is fair profit for them" thing. do you let someone who you do taxes for tell you how much they will pay you for it? do you let someone who you are consulting legally or financially tell you how much they will pay you? i dont understand how people would even know what a "fair" profit for a dealer would be? do you have copies of their electric bills, water bills, heating bills, insurance bills, etc on hand so you can determine what is fair?

    also, with regards to commissioned employees making money by cheating people, vs. salaried working for the same check, and can truely be fair to the consumer - how many of you work for an insurance company that charges so much for their services that so many people out there cant afford coverage? they are all salaried employees are they not? so do whats best, and provide coverage for all... what about those who work at an oil company, who are raking in record profits for gas. are they not ripping us off? are they not SALARIED employees?

    just curious on some thoughts...

    btw, i am a former salesperson - now working in the corporate world (wee!)

    -thene :)
  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    Unfortuantely, I will concur.

    Even though I have watched the government let go of AmTrak they will always bail out the Airlines and the Auto Industry.

    It is one thing to support extra-ordinary happenings, ie: disasters, it's another to continue to support poorly run companies.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 16,273
    multiple Crown Royals at a watering hole of your choice await the most cogent comment addressing this purchase avenue

    When you offer a good whiskey we will talk.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,267
    Thene,

    You are "whistling in the dark" here. A couple of "experts" have taken over these forums.

    I have given up but I applaud your efforts.

    And I hope your new gig is working out well for you.
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    yeah, i know - not much has changed since i was last here! you sometimes just cant change the minds of people, or make them see how it is from the other side...but until you've walked in the shoes...you cant really make factual comments about the sales side of things...

    see i've been there, and walking in those shoes has changed my perception...do i want to pay more than others? no, but my negotiation process and what im willing to pay will be different from those seeking to offer the dealer a "fair profit" ;)

    -thene
  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    Insurance Companies.

    It is why Warren Buffet "likes" insurance companies. The people pay you first and you can invest the money before ever having to pay out a claim.
  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    As a person who has been on both sides, can you tell us how you approach your car purchase?

    I think this information would be very useful
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    well its not anything too out of the ordinary - i would figure out what my needs are, see what's out there that fits my needs (see which are by a car company i would like to buy from) decide on options, color, etc. i would look at edmunds TMV price (because it looks to be a very fair average of what dealers are selling these vehicles for) and head out. i take one for a test drive, and if the salesperson and the dealership seem friendly and reputable, i'd let them know i am interested, and if they meet the TMV price (which any dealer would do) we have a deal. i know im not getting screwed, i know they dealer isnt either, and we're all happy. why haggle because someone else saved more? besides, i'd rather pay a little more, and be able to go back to the dealership and have the manager, salesperson and service department ready to help in any way they can, than screw them out of every penny possible. i would get the extended warranty (company, not aftermarket, since i keep my cars a long time). keep it short, simple, and easy.

    i could always tell who had a chip on their shoulder coming in...and they just made the whole process so frustrating! i dont want to be frustrated, and the salesperson is trying to make a living, just like i did (and do! but not selling cars anymore). no need to make it us vs. them.

    i find most dealers arent out there to screw people. yes, they are out to make a buck, but what business isnt?

    im friendly, honest, and if maybe they cant meet my price, but they come close enough - and their customer service has been fantastic, i may just buy anyways. to me, thats more important.

    anyways, that was long winded - and like i said, its nothing out of the blue. i dont make tons of money, but im not afraid to spend a few extra bucks to ensure that i will have great service next time i stop in. besides that, they may be so kind to offer discounts on any parts i may need in the future.

    hope that made sense! i didnt go back to proofread! :P

    -thene :)
  • nonjth13nonjth13 Posts: 91
    "i would look at edmunds TMV price (because it looks to be a very fair average of what dealers are selling these vehicles for) and head out"

    My personal experience with TMV is different than yours. I purchased a new AUDI A4 in 2003. Clean cash deal no trade. TMV for my little corner of the world was sticker. A couple of test drives and an email to the only Audi franchise in these parts asking for a price quote resulted in a $1300 discount from sticker on a factory order. So for vehicles that don't sell in large volume in upstate NY, it seems that TMV missed the mark.
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    well, i'll be honest, i say tmv because i know im not looking at a vehicle that is hot on the market. however, if the market is bearing msrp at that time, either wait a bit, or pick a different vehicle if thats not what you want to pay. i am by no means saying that my method is the way everyone should buy cars. bobst must have patented the bobst method by now (and written a few books as well!) and thats what works for him.

    my basic approach is to go in without a chip on my shoulder. the person on the other side of the desk is that, a person. working to make a living just like we do. a lot of people try to buy a car that no matter how much haggling they do, is just not in their price range. then they get mad at the system for it.

    anyways, my two cents...

    -thene :)
  • mark156mark156 Posts: 2,006
    If I know the invoice price and all the dealer incentives, I know a dealer's real cost. I then would make an offer based on my understanding on what a dealer's fair profit is

    bcMalibu99ls, one thing that I know for sure is that, "we" as customers, will NEVER ... EVER...EVER.... know the TRUE cost of a vehicle to the dealer. We might can get close, but we really have no avenue to find the REAL TRUE COST of a car at the dealer level. :sick:

    Having owned a chain of retail stores, there are incentives, discounts, etc., that customers will never see, hear about, or see on any document. I would think it's the same way with car manufacturers. :surprise:

    Mark :D
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    you would also have to take into consideration the floorplanning cost, gas, cleaning, maintenance, etc.

    which takes me back to the whole point about offering the dealer "fair" profit.

    how do you know what that is? :confuse:
  • black_tulipblack_tulip Posts: 438
    ...and if they meet the TMV price (which any dealer would do) we have a deal.

    I don't trust TMV. A few years ago, we were shopping for a used Lexus RX-300 and the local dealer's asking price was less than TMV (with identical equipment).

    besides, i'd rather pay a little more, and be able to go back to the dealership and have the manager, salesperson and service department ready to help...

    Salesperson will probably be gone and the service department does not give two hoots about how much you paid.

    As to the "fair profit" thing, that is just a way to arrive at an offer price. If that is not "fair" to the dealer, there will be no deal. I don't see the complications.
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    "Salesperson will probably be gone and the service department does not give two hoots about how much you paid."

    I have never been able to buy multiple cars from 1 salesperson. The first new car I ever bought was at a very reputable Dodge dealer. I called the dealer ahead of time, asked for a senior, experienced, yada, yada, salesperson, and was referred to one of their "top guns" I think she was called. She had awards all over her office, was very knowledgable, and the deal went great.

    Well, a year later, my lifestyle changed, and I needed to get out of my car, and into a truck. I called the same dealership, asked for the saleslady I burchased my car from, and she was no longer employed there. As a matter of fact, there was no one there that I recognized from when I had bought my car just a year earlier.

    As a matter of fact, the best service I have ever received from any dealer service department is at a dealer where I currently take my 2 cars to. I didn't purchase either car from them, but they go well out of their way to take care of me (loaner cars, discounted service prices, etc...).

    I would never base my purchase price off of what I "may" get down the road from my salesman of the service department.
  • bcMalibu99ls, We might can get close, but we really have no avenue to find the REAL TRUE COST of a car at the dealer level.

    ------- There are websites out there which list current dealer incentives, including dealers in Canada. That's a good source of information. Besides, what other consumer items out there, of which we know the price the store paid for them? When you buy a leather sofa, do you know what the store paid for it and how much profit it is making? How about a fridge? Cars cost twenty times more, but at least we know the approximate cost to the store (ie the dealer), and can start from there.

    As far as some people asking what is "fair to the dealer," that's a good question. Again, it's all about perception. After all, we want to walk away feeling good about our purchase. Maybe, it's just the way some people are, but I would feel cheap spending a few hours haggling over a hundred bucks or free oil changes for a year.
  • thenebeanthenebean Posts: 1,124
    that is not always the case with regards to salespeople. common? yes - if management turns over, chances are, so will the salespeople. everyone does things differently, and often times, new management will clean house and bring in their people.

    everyone buys cars differently - and you'll do what is right for you. but i think the big thing is too many people go in with a chip on their shoulders - and that just makes the whole experience tougher and less pleasant than it needs to be.
  • socala4socala4 Posts: 2,427
    I would feel cheap spending a few hours haggling over a hundred bucks or free oil changes for a year.

    If you feel cheap, the problem is with your outlook, not with the negotiation process.

    And if you need three hours to get a hundred bucks, then you need to revamp your haggling skills. There's no one formula, of course, but I find that it is easy to shave hundreds of dollars within twenty minutes or less, if you know how to do it.

    In any case, this thread is supposed to be for the salespeople, not us. I'd be interested to hear their war stories and to hear their perspective, even if I don't often agree with it.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 16,273
    I have never been able to buy multiple cars from 1 salesperson.

    I bought two cars, my mom one, my sister three, three friends one each and one friend two cars all from the same salesman at the same dealer over a period of almost 10 years.

    I would never base my purchase price off of what I "may" get down the road from my salesman of the service department.

    I would agree.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,267
    Have constant turnover both of salespeople and management.

    This is my 11th year and a large percentage of my sales are to repeat and referral customers. The General Manager, General Sales Manager and Used Car Manager all had their same job before I was hired.

    But, we are the exception for sure!

    Awhile back,in one of these forums, I told about I guy I interviewed a couple of years ago. He worked for a newrby Ford store. I think he said they had 25 salespeople and he was second in seniority.

    He had worked there 8 months!
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 6,014
    then you need to revamp your haggling skills,if you know how to do it.

    Well, when you're buying a vehilce every 3-4-6 years, that may be difficult to do. Practice makes perfect, so for the average person who doesn't "negotiate" for a living it may be a little more difficult than you are letting onto.

    A lot of it comes down to ones personality and comfort level...as like you have stated on several occasions, negotiating is "like a game". But, to do well at the "game"...one should enjoy playing it. Like a "Basic" computer programming flowchart, there are hundereds of things a salesman can do or say to throw you off your gameplan. An experienced negotiator, or someone comfortable with the process, can deflect these type of questions and stick to their gameplan. The less experienced or easily frazzled, may get lost.

    I think a bobst or bcmalibu strategy will get you pretty close to a good/fair price. So, if one does not like the negotiation process, the "hassle", or "the dealership not making a fair profit", it would be a good way to go.
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan, 2008 Mercury Mariner.
  • socala4socala4 Posts: 2,427
    I think a bobst or bcmalibu strategy will get you pretty close to a good/fair price. So, if one does not like the negotiation process, the "hassle", or "the dealership not making a fair profit", it would be a good way to go.

    I agree with that, I'm just trying to point out that it is a lot easier than most people seem to think, and that most people don't give themselves enough credit about how well they could do it. As long as you have the toolkit, you can adjust your tactics to match your own personal style -- it's simply a roadmap to follow, but you can vary the specifics to match your own personality.

    I gave a couple of examples on the other thread, one including myself when I was just a college student, and another with a friend of mine with minimal negotiation experience who simply got a bit of coaching from me, because I wanted to illustrate how even a novice can do it. A lot of negotiation has nothing to do with money or business, it's really more of a study of human behavior, a bit like people watching, but with dollars being used to determine your score.

    And the negotiation tactics learned from car shopping can be used in many other areas of your life, whether it comes to buying furniture, negotiating your salary package or even dealing with your kids and dating. These are not just specific business skills, they are living skills that you can use just about every day. Learn them well, and you will save both large sums of money and gain other tools that will help you throughout your life. (And it won't be necessary to go to the dealership with a chip on the shoulder if you know how to have fun with it.)
  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    ---I would feel cheap spending a few hours haggling over a hundred bucks or free oil changes for a year.

    If you feel cheap, the problem is with your outlook, not with the negotiation process. ---

    Everyone who posts on this board will "value" a $100 differently. To some this is a considerable amount of money, and to others it is "loose change"

    If someone is fortunate eneough to find that leaving a $100 on the table is "no bid deal" then by no means do I think that is "a problem with your outlook" as you stated.

    It is merely, his economic outlook.

    We often heard stories of Micheal Jordon dropping $25,000 on a round of golf, bets, etc. It sounds surreal. But he was making 60+ million a year, which that bet to a guy making $100,000 a year is equal to $40.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The experienced here, on both sides, will attest that getting the 'best' price is not very difficult at all. Some basic investigations balanced with good common sense will get everyone into the same envelope so to speak.

    Investigations on Invoice pricing, newspaper ads, market reviews, classifieds ( used cars ), radio/TV and word of mouth ( very very important ) will give a buyer a good sense of the price of vehicles in a given market ( another key point ). Then there are interest rates, sources of financing, extended warranties, etc to be investigated. With all this done beforehand...

    Common sense then comes into play in being realistic with one's self.
    Can I afford the Denali and still eat?
    Do I have an idea of how downpayment, interest rates and term interact?
    Am I going to 'take a shot' to get a killer deal or do I want/have to have one to drive home today?
    What features do I have to have and which do I want but can do without?
    Is this vehicle easily attainable or very limited? ( see above )
    Am I comfortable negotiating ( enjoy negotiating? ) or will I feel overrun and wish to let someone else do it?

    Before I entered this business I negotiated everything from suits to dinners to ticket to airline seating to autos to fruit in markets. Then I became Sales Mgr/VP huge steel company where every transaction for 20 yrs was a negotiation - all over the world. In buying a car frankly it didnt matter if the next person did $200 or $500 better than I or worse than I. If I felt comfortable with the price offered, I bought it.

    Now I do the selling and there's no difference really. The easiest transactions are with the well-informed and the self-confident. It's a snap because both parties immediately recognize that the other is informed and capable. The price is normally fair and the transaction often is finished within 15 min.
  • Well put! Exactly! When people come uneducated, it makes the process so much more difficult. Its funny, when people come in to Audi, they think think we are just a little bit more expensive than VW and I had one gentleman who wanted to lease an A8 for around $700.00 a month!!! Total opposite, client, was a young man who was interested in an A3 and we were working on this deal forever looking for a particular car and when we decided on an order, He said "I have done my research and I know that these things on average are going for $500 off sticker. Even though I am ordering a can I still get that deal?" Of course. I rather work hard on a deal that I know that will be a mini with someone who in his/her negotiations makes sense, then someone who is going in all willy nilly having and just naming a price on the top of his head.
  • mark156mark156 Posts: 2,006
    BcMalibu99ls, I know there are websites for car prices, etc, but you will never know exactly what a dealer is paying for a vehicle. I'm not even considering the additional costs of lights, gas, phone, other utilities, insurance, payroll, building costs, etc, etc.... When that car leaves the manufacturer and arrives at the dealer with a "cost" from the factory, we will never know what that true cost is because we will never be able to "tap" in to any agreements that the owners have approved. The laundry list is huge...(volume selling, additional manufacturer to dealer discounts, and many more that I wouldn't even know that name of).

    I'm not sure why you were comparing furniture, appliances, etc, when responding to me, I mentioned in my post that I was in the retail business and no one could possibly know my discounts and incentives that I received from my distributors, and they probably didn't care. :P

    Mark :D
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    you either sold or a customer had installed, that you just shook your head and thought, how are they ever going to resell this car?
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    you either sold or a customer had installed, that you just shook your head and thought, how are they ever going to resell this car?

    I bought an Audi A4, and I had to order my car the way I wanted it. I had a crazy mix of options that aren't typically found together that would make it virtually un-sellable. But I was leasing, so I didn't care! The salesman was trying reeeeally hard to take me out of it! ;)

    I got the 1.8T engine, 5-spd manual trans, leatherette with manual seats, (but NO sport package), Bose sound system with 6-CD changer, xenon headlights, heated front and rear seats, headlamp washers, and (here's the kicker) NO SUNROOF! I had sunroofs in previous cars and never used them. In fact, I always even closed the shade. I couldn't see paying over $1000 for something I'd never use. In any event, I'm sure the dealer was thrilled to get that oddball at the end of the lease.... :P
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,458
    Land Rovers don't have many options so nothing in the way of factory options but I have some odd ball accessories people have installed.

    Side steps on a range rover sport when the truck is only about 3 inches above the ground when lowered as much as possible.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,267
    Yeah, that Audi would be about saleproof as a used car.

    I think the worst option is a "gold kit" especally when they put on one of those hokey gold plated grills.

    Yuck!
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    , and (here's the kicker) NO SUNROOF! I had sunroofs in previous cars and never used them. In fact, I always even closed the shade. I couldn't see paying over $1000 for something I'd never use. In any event, I'm sure the dealer was thrilled to get that oddball at the end of the lease

    Feel the same way about sunroofs. We never use them, always keep the shade closed to keep sun off of head. It would be interesting to know how many other people feel the same way.

    Over the years, car models we wanted most always came with a sunroof so we got stuck with something we did not want in order to get other features/options that were part of the car model. Two of our present vehicles have sunroofs which we never use.

    Remember shopping for and test driving Maxima SE in late 90's. The Nissan brochure said that the sunroof was optional, but the salespersons at the dealers we visited said we couldn't get that way with the SE configuration we wanted.
  • mark156mark156 Posts: 2,006
    I've had sunroofs in every car since my 1984 Peugeot 505 STI, and I use them all of the time! My favorite time is in the evening when the sun has gone down. Sometimes I will use the air-conditioning and have the sunroof open for extra fresh air.

    Also, I can't imagine have manual seats. I like to change my seat position all the time, especially if I'm driving on a road trip. My bottom would get numb if I didn't change my seat. :blush:

    I agree with Isell 100%, I absolutely can not stand the "gold" package on any car! Actually, I like cars to be VERY factory. The only thing that "might" be ok are chrome wheels but they have to be exactly the design as the factory wheel. Other than that, factory all of the way! :P

    Mark :D
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • golicgolic Posts: 714
    I am spoiled and now "need" the sun roof. I am sure one day I will talk myself into a convertable.

    I shake my head at the "gold" package as well. Or my favorite is the spoiler that just doesnt belong on "that" car.

    I remember when I was looking at the sebrings when the first came out in 1995 and the sales man was pushing me to get a spoiler installed, the even had 2 on the lot with them. It just looked insane.
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    I was recently given cause to shudder when I saw one of those fake fabric tops on both a new Cadillac and a Chrysler 300. One was green over metallic blue! However, I've never seem them fitted to imports.

    Both vehicles were driven by by an older generation than mine, and I'm never going to die young. ;)
  • lmp180psulmp180psu Posts: 393
    I saw a Lincoln Zephyr with a black fabric top, over a muddy brown paint color...yuck. That car is ugly enough as it is (especially the rear), but a fabric top is awful. I don't understand why people would by a Zephyr over a Mercury Milan. They have the same engine, plus the Milan is $5K-10K less!! The interior can't be worth that much over a Milan!!
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    I was recently given cause to shudder when I saw one of those fake fabric tops on both a new Cadillac and a Chrysler 300. One was green over metallic blue! However, I've never seem them fitted to imports.

    Both vehicles were driven by by an older generation than mine, and I'm never going to die young.


    Good god, those cloth tops on the "big boat" cars (Cadillacs, Lincolns, Grand Marq/Crown Vic, etc) are HORRENDOUS!

    I actually made a deal with my wife regarding this.... If I ever buy one of those, she has the go-ahead to just end my life right then and there. At that point, I would clearly be beyond hope. :P

    In return, I get to put her out of her misery if she ever wears one of those old-lady plastic bags on her head when it's raining. :P
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Good god, those cloth tops on the "big boat" cars (Cadillacs, Lincolns, Grand Marq/Crown Vic, etc) are HORRENDOUS!

    This is just a part of diversity that is so rich in our country that we should respect and embrace. Different strokes for...
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    Different strokes for...

    True, but I think there's little doubt that additional gold trim and padded roofs will add nothing to the resale value, and may well detract from it.
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    "True, but I think there's little doubt that additional gold trim and padded roofs will add nothing to the resale value, and may well detract from it."

    Oh, you never know. Kind of like that commercial where the guy puts his old lime green hatchback on the internet, and they show the guy sitting at his computer discovering that there is a lime green hatchback for sale and getting excited.

    I was on vacation a couple of years ago, and an older lady parks her white Grand Marquis with black cloth top and gold accents in the beach club parking lot. I wanted to laugh when another older couple proceeded to walk over and compliment how sharp that car looked.
  • sbell4sbell4 Posts: 446
    I just dont understand when someone wants wheels that are sometimes 10% of the cost of the vehicle that they are buying.
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