kirstie....that "40 thing" must be a woman obsession. Us men feel we're just getting to our prime by them. Women, on the other hand, seem to view it as the threshold of oblivion.
Don't know why. I've found women at 40 to be much more confident, comfortable in their "skin", and much more adventurous (trying to score some brownie points, here).
Back to cars.....at 40, you need a bright red 'vette 'vert to celebrate the big FOUR-OH.
From this I take it that you wouldn't have wanted to see (deal) with any of the regulars that hang around here, cause we really do know it all but we (talkin for every one here) take issue with that 'cranky' stuff .
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I was notified by American Honda of the release of the Civic Sedan SI. from their cite I chose a local dealer, After my unsatisfactory experience with them, my desire for a new Honda has soured. I used the edmonds new car free quote search. 1st Tuesday,the dealership did not give me a quote. and the phone number the internet sales person gave me was incorrect. I'm thinking, "this person is an Idiot." I had to google the contact informmation for the dealership then I called and left a message on the sales person desk. 2nd, Wednesday He did not return my email until 24 hours later. I'm thinking, "either he is to busy or does not want my business." 3rd, Thursday. he emails me and is thinking I am still talking about wednesday, I have made plans because he did not return my call. so I try to go by the dealer and drop by around 7:15 pm which was close to the time I said I would try to be there. strike three, he is not there. I wait for a few minutes and by now I am thoroughly disgusted and may enthusiasm for the new Civic Sedan SI has evaporated.
The dealership has lost a sale, and probably American honda, because I just cancelled my appointments for two other dealers.
It's true what they say about first impressions.
Thought I would share my shopping experience. Wayne
no no! don't get me wrong. i prefer people who have researched and know what they are looking for, and what a fair price is.
i am talking about the majority who PRETEND to know what they are talking about, and talk DOWN to me. believe me, i was not one of the salespeople who didn't know their product. i knew nissans inside and out. before i started selling cars and was out test driving what would be my new car, i was correcting salespeople about the facts!
I've had plenty of informed customers come in and the transaction went very smoothly. those were the best!
2nd, Wednesday He did not return my email until 24 hours later. I'm thinking, "either he is to busy or does not want my business."
Just a little advice, most car sales professionals work the weekend. That means they take their time off during the week. Even God took a day off. That being said I wouldn't be to upset with a 24 hour response time in midweek. S/he could have been off that day, cut them some slack.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Perhaps he thinks "Stories from Sales Frontlines" is a consumer forum, where evil dealers (and all are evil, aren't they? )would not dare to show their face? So anybody posing as a salesman is "funny" :surprise:
Lol, perhaps. Thanks for that interpretation, Dino. I'm not sure if that's correct.
I'm starting to wonder if he has a firm grasp on the English language. I think 'dealership' means something completely different to him than it does to me.
I think Jipster would be mighty jealous, since we didn't give him his own discussion.
Yes, I believe that was put on the plate in the "Smart Shopper: Suggest a Topic of Discussion" a couple months(or years) ago by yours truly. From what I recall it split the Edmunds staff into two opposite camps... Kirstie campaigning for the "Ask Jipster" discussion, while Tidester leading the opposition with threats to walk out if approved.
The discussion centered on Jipster giving personal and financial advice to Edmunds members, who we all know are pretty messed up. But, alas... it was just not meant to be. Anyhow, HAPPY BIRTHDAY KIRSTIE!
Hope the "mods" read your post, though. This isn't the first time I've heard that the Edmunds "dealer network" has been unresponsive.
We've got no influence over the stuff on the main site. But if you want to report a problem, by all means use the "help" link at the bottom and select the "contact us" tab. That way, complaints get to the desk(s) of those responsible.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
The dealership has lost a sale, and probably American honda, because I just cancelled my appointments for two other dealers.
Are you saying that because you had a problem with one Honda dealer (which I am not convinced was all his fault) you put all Honda dealers in the same boat? Therefore, get rid of all of them. If this is correct, using your philosophy of selecting a manufacturer/model, I have no idea what kind of car you will be buying.
Maybe you have a well stocked machine shop in your garage and a lot of skill and time since this will probably be your best bet.
It's true what they say about first impressions.
A lot of times this is true and I hope we haven't gotten the wrong impression of you from a single post.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
This kind of sounds like me Ex-roommate in college. Whenever he had one bad experience at a restaurant he would ban that establishment for life.
If that restaurant happened to be part of a chain he would ban the whole chain. By the end of our college career there was almost no place for us to go to eat. It took me five years but I did manage to convince him his "system" was flawed.
I left my Nissan dealership about 5 months ago. They already had 2 people on the waiting list. $1,000 non-refundable check and you get the first ones coming in.
I believe the release is much earlier than 3 years.
So I sold this guy a Supercharged Sport for his wife. About 2 weeks later I walk in and he is at the service counter demanding one of our loaners. Seems his wife drove the car into a bridge abutment and it had been towed to us. He did not understand that his loaner should come from hid insurance company, not us. Finally, our sales manager relents and puts her in a used Freelander. About a week later she drives the Freelander off the road and totals it. The word on the street is she wanted out of this life. She survived both accidents with no injury. It is the last time an insurance claim gets one of our cars.
Yup, it's definitely under the Nissan badge. They were really wondering whether or not to continue with the Nissan badge, but decided in the end to keep it uniform across the globe. There are a lot of happpy Nissan salesmen because of this.
As far as Toyota's Supra? I haven't heard a peep. Sorry. =(
moo...actually, the guy is doing himself a disservice. He's taken himself out of the market for one of the most respected car lines. Too bad for him.
On the flip side...talking about customer service...My Mother's Caddy had a little wiggle in the driver's seat. It feels like the tracks need to be tightened down.
I call the Caddy dealer to set up a service appointment, as the car is still under warranty. I tell them what's going on.
They ask me why I'm calling and not "Mother GG", who the car belongs to. They also make a comment about their hope that Mother GG is "OK".
I tell them Mother GG is doing just fine, with the exception that she couldn't pass the vision test to renew her driver's license. Thus, her son....little GG...has taken the responsibility of caring for Mother GG's car.
I ask them when I can bring the car in. They can't get to the car until Monday, but tell me not to worry. They'll come pick up the car and take it to their shop. Very nice of them. Guy comes over with a brand new Caddy for me to use. I tell him I've got my own car to use, so I don't need theirs. He states he can't drive both cars back to the dealership, so I may as well use the loaner.
Maybe she should have gotten a less sturdy vehicle. (yes, somewhat of a joke in totally poor taste ... but there's also a bit of sincerity in that statement, too)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Very kind of them to act that way. I wonder if part of that treatment is based on the Cadillac demographic...
Nah, it's probably just a really kind service department.
In my opinion, the service part of the dealership is probably the MOST important gear in the machine. We're talking about tons of repeat and referral business because of continual fair and honest treatment. A $10 favor that turns into tens of thousands of dollars in sales.
Good stuff.
Here's a quick story from todays workday.
A lady in her 50's who I had worked with 2 days ago came in today. She said she was ready to do business and she wanted a silver 4 dr sedan Civic. Her husband was with her and he just cut to the chase and tossed out all the quotes they had received. We negotiated on price and finally came to an agreement. (She had wanted a spoiler added and we worked that into the price as well.)
We didn't have the exact vehicle on the lot, but we are receiving one in just a couple of days. I told her she could have that vehicle and started to get the credit application for her to fill out.
At this point, she says that she thinks she is going to wait a couple of months. I stare blankly at her. . . . . .
After what I felt was 30 minutes of staring, I asked her why. She said that she still had her leased vehicle and that her husband brought up the point that they would just be throwing away $1,200 if they just turned in their car.
I asked her, (as politely as I could) if she had thought of this scenario at all in the last week that she had been shopping for vehicles. She replied that yes she had thought about it before. Wow...
The only way I could try and salvage the deal would be a trade-in, but she was too hooked to be able to do that. So I let the little fishie go back to sea.
Unbelievable. You spend an entire week shopping and test driving different vehicles. You pick out the right car and then start negotiations with 3 different dealers. Then you come to the dealer and as you are about to sign everything you back out. All because of something you were well aware of from the moment that you started shopping.
Wow. I get all kinds. And to top it all off, it's raining cats and dogs and Auburn got beat by stupid Georgia. Pathetic.
Yes, that is correct. It will in initially be badged a NISSAN.
Carlos was undecided for a while but thought those exact thoughts... to keep it universal for the entire world so as to avoid confusion.
As for a Supra, right now there will be an IS 500 - basically a 350 with an 8 cyl engine and improved suspension.
Rumor has it that Toyo WILL do a Supra based on the IS chassis/platform but they are "consulting" German engineers in order to dial in the suspension.
Once Japanese manufacturers can "dial in" suspensions like the Germans, it's all over for us ... They (Japanese) will have both reliability AND performance!!
Isell and madmanmoo, what is going on with the Odyssey? 2006 Consumer Reports reliability rating just came out; the Odyssey is rated as average:( At least it is in the “red” now. 05 model year was rated a bit below average, but that was the first model year. But still, its reliability ratin is same as Kia Sedona :surprise: Are you aware of any chronic issues with this model?
We need a minivan for another 6.5 years. My wife says that she’ll never ever drive anything older than 7 years old. Currently she is driving a leased 2004 Odyssey (last model year of the previous design, very reliable) that expires in two months. What do you think would be the most economical option? No, replacing my wife is not the most economical option at this time.
1) Buy the lease out. Residual is about $18K (EXL w/o NAV and DVD), no mileage penalty. At this price I will be paying about 2-3K more than it’s worth, but I’ll have a very reliable van for four years. At that time I’ll have to trade it in, and get screwed on the trade in value. Buy another van, and get screwed again when I have to trade it in 2.5 to 3 years later.
BTW, by getting screwed on the trade in value, I mean that the dealers in my area are giving away new cars, but the most I was able to get for a trade in lately was 2.5-3K under the Black Book, and that’s on Hondas and Acuras. That an interesting business model they developed here.
2) Turn the 04 Odyssey in and buy an 07 Odyssey and keep it for 6.5 years. The problem is that CR rates its reliability as average. 3) Turn the Odyssey in and buy the 06 Sienna. I can get one for 2K under invoice. However, it is a year old and it comes with underpowered 215HP engine. As the result, the resale value of 06 Sienna will be much lower than the 07 Odyssey. Also, I only want the XLE option package 8 and they are hard to find. In January, when 07s come out, it will be even harder to find them. 07 Sienna is not an option, they’ll just come out in January, and I’ll bet they’ll sell at MSRP, which is about 6K more than 06.
Why do you need a minivan? My recommendation is that unless you need to transport 7-8 people regularly, you should look at a larger sedan instead. Something that seats 6 people is going to be easier to drive and not be a box on wheels as well.
That said, buy GM, a couple of years(1-2 with the original warranty still intact) used. Seriosuly low-priced due to initial depreciation and yet decently reliable larger sedans.
Or jsut get a couple of year old 4-Runner. Way better than any Minivan.
On the points. #1 is moot - 2-3K more is well, 2-3K more you could be spending on something better. Don't throw away money because you like the car you have now. #2 - absolutely right. It's not an Accord by any means. #3 - It's as hopelessly average as the others. The makers have all but abandoned minivans for SUVs and it shows in spades.
My wife loved her minivan also. Why don't you look at a 2006 Chrysler Town and Country or Dodge Grand Caravan. Great price on a new one, or even a 1 year old one. Pretty good reliability, and by buying an 06, you are not getting hit with the 1st year dropoff in resale value. (btw, the stow n go is awesome)
"... the dealers in my area are giving away new cars, but the most I was able to get for a trade in lately was 2.5-3K under the Black Book... That an interesting business model they developed here."
A point I've been looking for someone to mention for some time.
The same thing here - new vehicles are easy to get fairly cheap. The first thing they mention as far as a trade is "auction prices". The last three I traded in were all sold on the dealers lot - one as a CPO.
Have you ever sold a vehicle to CarMax? Virginia locations include Richmond, Virginia Beach, Charlottesville and Fredericksburg. About a year ago I sold a car to CarMax for $9600 shortly after getting a Black-Book offer from a dealer for only $5500. It was strictly a sale - no purchase involved from CarMax.
What about buying your wife a new vehicle and taking it over yourself after 7 years? Only get rid of it when you are ready. The selection of the vehicle would include your input, and the result just might not be a minivan. My wife and I worked out a compromise for a shared vehicle. It wasn't the first choice for either of us, but we're both very happy with it.
A neighbor bought one of those MB R series car/van/SUV....whatever they're supposed to be. Nice vehicles. But, it does remind me a bit of a Chrysler Pacifica. Poor Chrysler. What a mess Benz management has made of that company. Aside from maybe a Jeep, a 300 SRT, or the upcoming Challenger...there's nothing in their arsenal that would even get me into their showroom to even look.
Moo....I would imagine a "stroke" like you had would be frustrating. Why sit down and go through the motions if you aren't going to buy what you're negotiating for....right down to the additional spoiler (which to me, is a bit silly on a "non Si" Civic)? My guess is it happens all too often, though. :sick:
I'm not a big fan of CR. I view their ratings as "self fulfilling prophecies". They tell their readership what is/isn't good. The readership just spits back what CR tells them. CR regularly hammers on American iron for reliability and fit/finish. That may have had a point 10 years, ago. I don't think that's the case today, however. There's lots of American iron out there that people drive for well over 100K miles with no issues.
Average reliabitlity isn't bad, per se. Personally, I don't understand why power is an issue in a mini-van, anyway. If the Sienna fits the bill, does having a higher priced Ody, with more power, going to serve you any better? Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever driven, or ridden in a mini-van........EVER. So, what do I know.
A tailgating buddy just got a new '07 Avalanche this weekend. He brought it over yesterday. Man, is that a nice vehicle. Forgetting what's bound to be some lousy MPG numbers, it rides very nice. Handles well for a big vehicle, too. GM seems to be putting their vehicles together much better, these days. But.....it stickered for $40K....for a truck, no less.... :surprise:
Since you're seeking the most economical solution here, the first option is probably the best for a couple of reasons.
I don't know that your assumption (that paying 18k for the '04 is 2 or 3 over what it's worth) is correct. That may be true on trade but you can't go out and buy one for 15.
The '04 has already suffered its sharpest depreciation decline. Your depreciation cost per year from here out will not be all that bad. The car will not turn 7 until four years from now in the fall of 2010 when the '11s are released.
That said, if other issues are a factor (and it sounds as though they are since you "only want the XLE option package 8"), get what you want so you'll be happy. Again, though, I question your assumption that '07 Siennas will sell at MSRP upon release. Competition in the minivan segment is pretty hot right now ('07 Odysseys are already selling at or very close to invoice in most of the country).
Of course, a new Sienna will cost vastly more than the '04 Honda and you're right back to the dreadful depreciation cycle.
Comments
I remember turning 40, we went on a mammoth hunt.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Don't know why. I've found women at 40 to be much more confident, comfortable in their "skin", and much more adventurous (trying to score some brownie points, here).
Back to cars.....at 40, you need a bright red 'vette 'vert to celebrate the big FOUR-OH.
That ain't nothin.
Did you notice that 'snake' said he remembers turning 40 (but I'll bet barely). Now that's the age you want to get to some day.
Happy B day whenever it happens. Hint, use 4 candles it's easier that way.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
In reality I am the same age as Jack Benny, 39
Now back to your regually scheduled rants.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
From this I take it that you wouldn't have wanted to see (deal) with any of the regulars that hang around here, cause we really do know it all but we (talkin for every one here) take issue with that 'cranky' stuff .
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
After my unsatisfactory experience with them, my desire for a new Honda has soured.
I used the edmonds new car free quote search.
1st Tuesday,the dealership did not give me a quote. and the phone number the internet sales person gave me was incorrect. I'm thinking, "this person is an Idiot." I had to google the contact informmation for the dealership then I called and left a message on the sales person desk.
2nd, Wednesday He did not return my email until 24 hours later.
I'm thinking, "either he is to busy or does not want my business."
3rd, Thursday. he emails me and is thinking I am still talking about wednesday, I have made plans because he did not return my call. so I try to go by the dealer and drop by around 7:15 pm which was close to the time I said I would try to be there.
strike three, he is not there. I wait for a few minutes and by now I am thoroughly disgusted and may enthusiasm for the new Civic Sedan SI has evaporated.
The dealership has lost a sale, and probably American honda, because I just cancelled my appointments for two other dealers.
It's true what they say about first impressions.
Thought I would share my shopping experience.
Wayne
i am talking about the majority who PRETEND to know what they are talking about, and talk DOWN to me. believe me, i was not one of the salespeople who didn't know their product. i knew nissans inside and out. before i started selling cars and was out test driving what would be my new car, i was correcting salespeople about the facts!
I've had plenty of informed customers come in and the transaction went very smoothly. those were the best!
-thene
You might want to try going to another dealership to see if their service is any better.
Hope the "mods" read your post, though. This isn't the first time I've heard that the Edmunds "dealer network" has been unresponsive.
What were you trying to accomplish by going to the dealership?
Our dealership won't have the new Si Sedans until mid December.
If you have any questions about the new sedans, I'd be happy to help out.
-Moo
Yes, it reflects badly (though maybe undeservedly) on Edmunds, as well as the dealership.
come on man your killing me. ha ha ha!
Just a little advice, most car sales professionals work the weekend. That means they take their time off during the week. Even God took a day off. That being said I wouldn't be to upset with a 24 hour response time in midweek. S/he could have been off that day, cut them some slack.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'm not sure I get the humor. Care to explain?
-Moo
thanks for the offer, did you say dealership?
come on man your killing me. ha ha ha!
:confuse: :confuse:
-Moo
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I'm starting to wonder if he has a firm grasp on the English language. I think 'dealership' means something completely different to him than it does to me.
-Moo
Yes, I believe that was put on the plate in the "Smart Shopper: Suggest a Topic of Discussion" a couple months(or years) ago by yours truly. From what I recall it split the Edmunds staff into two opposite camps... Kirstie campaigning for the "Ask Jipster" discussion, while Tidester leading the opposition with threats to walk out if approved.
The discussion centered on Jipster giving personal and financial advice to Edmunds members, who we all know are pretty messed up.
Have you seen the new Civic SI Sedans?
We've got no influence over the stuff on the main site. But if you want to report a problem, by all means use the "help" link at the bottom and select the "contact us" tab. That way, complaints get to the desk(s) of those responsible.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
This will be a very good seller as well.
-Moo
Thank goodness, I won't have to!
tidester, host
*checks drivers license*
Damn. Too late.
Are you saying that because you had a problem with one Honda dealer (which I am not convinced was all his fault) you put all Honda dealers in the same boat? Therefore, get rid of all of them. If this is correct, using your philosophy of selecting a manufacturer/model, I have no idea what kind of car you will be buying.
Maybe you have a well stocked machine shop in your garage and a lot of skill and time since this will probably be your best bet.
It's true what they say about first impressions.
A lot of times this is true and I hope we haven't gotten the wrong impression of you from a single post.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Am I really that funny?
Am I a dealership?
Questions I will never hear an answer to.....
Regrettably yours,
-Moo
essentially any dealer who pays the fee can be an edmunds dealer.
If that restaurant happened to be part of a chain he would ban the whole chain. By the end of our college career there was almost no place for us to go to eat. It took me five years but I did manage to convince him his "system" was flawed.
This car will bring them out of the cracks in the sidewalks, I'm sure. Hope we get it.
I believe the release is much earlier than 3 years.
-Moo
moo....what do you know about the rumors regarding the new Supra that Toyota has been hinting at?
As far as Toyota's Supra? I haven't heard a peep. Sorry. =(
_moo
On the flip side...talking about customer service...My Mother's Caddy had a little wiggle in the driver's seat. It feels like the tracks need to be tightened down.
I call the Caddy dealer to set up a service appointment, as the car is still under warranty. I tell them what's going on.
They ask me why I'm calling and not "Mother GG", who the car belongs to. They also make a comment about their hope that Mother GG is "OK".
I tell them Mother GG is doing just fine, with the exception that she couldn't pass the vision test to renew her driver's license. Thus, her son....little GG...has taken the responsibility of caring for Mother GG's car.
I ask them when I can bring the car in. They can't get to the car until Monday, but tell me not to worry. They'll come pick up the car and take it to their shop. Very nice of them. Guy comes over with a brand new Caddy for me to use. I tell him I've got my own car to use, so I don't need theirs. He states he can't drive both cars back to the dealership, so I may as well use the loaner.
Fine by me.
That's some kind of service.
Maybe she should have gotten a less sturdy vehicle. (yes, somewhat of a joke in totally poor taste ... but there's also a bit of sincerity in that statement, too)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The big question I've seen up in the air is pricing. Last I heard on that front was Vette Z06 territory!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Nah, it's probably just a really kind service department.
In my opinion, the service part of the dealership is probably the MOST important gear in the machine. We're talking about tons of repeat and referral business because of continual fair and honest treatment. A $10 favor that turns into tens of thousands of dollars in sales.
Good stuff.
Here's a quick story from todays workday.
A lady in her 50's who I had worked with 2 days ago came in today. She said she was ready to do business and she wanted a silver 4 dr sedan Civic. Her husband was with her and he just cut to the chase and tossed out all the quotes they had received. We negotiated on price and finally came to an agreement. (She had wanted a spoiler added and we worked that into the price as well.)
We didn't have the exact vehicle on the lot, but we are receiving one in just a couple of days. I told her she could have that vehicle and started to get the credit application for her to fill out.
At this point, she says that she thinks she is going to wait a couple of months. I stare blankly at her. . . . . .
After what I felt was 30 minutes of staring, I asked her why. She said that she still had her leased vehicle and that her husband brought up the point that they would just be throwing away $1,200 if they just turned in their car.
I asked her, (as politely as I could) if she had thought of this scenario at all in the last week that she had been shopping for vehicles. She replied that yes she had thought about it before. Wow...
The only way I could try and salvage the deal would be a trade-in, but she was too hooked to be able to do that. So I let the little fishie go back to sea.
Unbelievable. You spend an entire week shopping and test driving different vehicles. You pick out the right car and then start negotiations with 3 different dealers. Then you come to the dealer and as you are about to sign everything you back out. All because of something you were well aware of from the moment that you started shopping.
Wow. I get all kinds. And to top it all off, it's raining cats and dogs and Auburn got beat by stupid Georgia. Pathetic.
I hope some other sales guys had some fun today.
-Moo
That's a sweet vehicle. I saw several of them when I was in China. Very nice.
-Moo
Carlos was undecided for a while but thought those exact thoughts... to keep it universal for the entire world so as to avoid confusion.
As for a Supra, right now there will be an IS 500 - basically a 350 with an 8 cyl engine and improved suspension.
Rumor has it that Toyo WILL do a Supra based on the IS chassis/platform but they are "consulting" German engineers in order to dial in the suspension.
Once Japanese manufacturers can "dial in" suspensions like the Germans, it's all over for us ... They (Japanese) will have both reliability AND performance!!
We need a minivan for another 6.5 years. My wife says that she’ll never ever drive anything older than 7 years old. Currently she is driving a leased 2004 Odyssey (last model year of the previous design, very reliable) that expires in two months. What do you think would be the most economical option? No, replacing my wife is not the most economical option at this time.
1) Buy the lease out. Residual is about $18K (EXL w/o NAV and DVD), no mileage penalty. At this price I will be paying about 2-3K more than it’s worth, but I’ll have a very reliable van for four years. At that time I’ll have to trade it in, and get screwed on the trade in value. Buy another van, and get screwed again when I have to trade it in 2.5 to 3 years later.
BTW, by getting screwed on the trade in value, I mean that the dealers in my area are giving away new cars, but the most I was able to get for a trade in lately was 2.5-3K under the Black Book, and that’s on Hondas and Acuras. That an interesting business model they developed here.
2) Turn the 04 Odyssey in and buy an 07 Odyssey and keep it for 6.5 years. The problem is that CR rates its reliability as average.
3) Turn the Odyssey in and buy the 06 Sienna. I can get one for 2K under invoice. However, it is a year old and it comes with underpowered 215HP engine. As the result, the resale value of 06 Sienna will be much lower than the 07 Odyssey. Also, I only want the XLE option package 8 and they are hard to find. In January, when 07s come out, it will be even harder to find them. 07 Sienna is not an option, they’ll just come out in January, and I’ll bet they’ll sell at MSRP, which is about 6K more than 06.
Do you think I am overanalyzing this?
That said, buy GM, a couple of years(1-2 with the original warranty still intact) used. Seriosuly low-priced due to initial depreciation and yet decently reliable larger sedans.
Or jsut get a couple of year old 4-Runner. Way better than any Minivan.
On the points.
#1 is moot - 2-3K more is well, 2-3K more you could be spending on something better. Don't throw away money because you like the car you have now.
#2 - absolutely right. It's not an Accord by any means.
#3 - It's as hopelessly average as the others. The makers have all but abandoned minivans for SUVs and it shows in spades.
A point I've been looking for someone to mention for some time.
The same thing here - new vehicles are easy to get fairly cheap. The first thing they mention as far as a trade is "auction prices". The last three I traded in were all sold on the dealers lot - one as a CPO.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Nope. You don't have a good solution yet.
Have you ever sold a vehicle to CarMax? Virginia locations include Richmond, Virginia Beach, Charlottesville and Fredericksburg. About a year ago I sold a car to CarMax for $9600 shortly after getting a Black-Book offer from a dealer for only $5500. It was strictly a sale - no purchase involved from CarMax.
What about buying your wife a new vehicle and taking it over yourself after 7 years? Only get rid of it when you are ready. The selection of the vehicle would include your input, and the result just might not be a minivan. My wife and I worked out a compromise for a shared vehicle. It wasn't the first choice for either of us, but we're both very happy with it.
Good luck! I hope you will provide updates.
It's actually a X-Over (between an minivan & SUV) and NO.. it is not a Town & Country with a star logo :P
Moo....I would imagine a "stroke" like you had would be frustrating. Why sit down and go through the motions if you aren't going to buy what you're negotiating for....right down to the additional spoiler (which to me, is a bit silly on a "non Si" Civic)? My guess is it happens all too often, though. :sick:
I'm not a big fan of CR. I view their ratings as "self fulfilling prophecies". They tell their readership what is/isn't good. The readership just spits back what CR tells them. CR regularly hammers on American iron for reliability and fit/finish. That may have had a point 10 years, ago. I don't think that's the case today, however. There's lots of American iron out there that people drive for well over 100K miles with no issues.
Average reliabitlity isn't bad, per se. Personally, I don't understand why power is an issue in a mini-van, anyway. If the Sienna fits the bill, does having a higher priced Ody, with more power, going to serve you any better? Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever driven, or ridden in a mini-van........EVER. So, what do I know.
A tailgating buddy just got a new '07 Avalanche this weekend. He brought it over yesterday. Man, is that a nice vehicle. Forgetting what's bound to be some lousy MPG numbers, it rides very nice. Handles well for a big vehicle, too. GM seems to be putting their vehicles together much better, these days. But.....it stickered for $40K....for a truck, no less.... :surprise:
I don't know that your assumption (that paying 18k for the '04 is 2 or 3 over what it's worth) is correct. That may be true on trade but you can't go out and buy one for 15.
The '04 has already suffered its sharpest depreciation decline. Your depreciation cost per year from here out will not be all that bad. The car will not turn 7 until four years from now in the fall of 2010 when the '11s are released.
That said, if other issues are a factor (and it sounds as though they are since you "only want the XLE option package 8"), get what you want so you'll be happy. Again, though, I question your assumption that '07 Siennas will sell at MSRP upon release. Competition in the minivan segment is pretty hot right now ('07 Odysseys are already selling at or very close to invoice in most of the country).
Of course, a new Sienna will cost vastly more than the '04 Honda and you're right back to the dreadful depreciation cycle.