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Comments
Honda never sold very many NSXs, and that was even under the Acura badge where you get folks looking to spend more money.
but this isn't the place to discuss this, i suppose. You can keep us up on the stories of the GTR shoppers, though.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
First, we need a minivan because we have kids. Families with kids need at least one boxy car to carry stuff around. Minivans are just as big as most midsize SUVs and large sedans, but they get better gas mileage than SUVs, and have more passenger and cargo room than anything else out there. We only have two kids, but believe it or not, when we go to the beach for two weeks we fill that thing up. We rent a house, so we take clothing, bedding and towels, beach chairs, toys, boogie boards, canopy etc
Reliability and the resale value are the two most important factors. Yes, resale is important because kbb shows about 8k on seven year old Odysseys or Siennas, that’s a significant amount of change. Chryslers and Kias are nice, but they are only about 3K cheaper than similarly equipped Hondas and Toyotas. I am sure I’ll spend that much more over seven years in higher repair bills and lower resale. Hyundai Entourage is the first model year, need I say more? Don’t even get me started on the R class. Similarly equipped R class will cost twice as much as Sienna. And what will I get for that 60K: less room, horrible gas mileage and the reliability rating off the scale in the negative direction (-129% below average). Does anyone actually buy that thing?
Carmax is a good alternative. However, based on my personal experience they are nothing special.
In my personal experience and reading these boards, CR is fairly accurate. They are no longer biased towards the Japanese iron. As a matter of fact Camry, Altima, Maxima, Mazda6 and Galant are rated below average; while Grand Prix, G6, Impala, Sebring, LaCrosse and Ford Fusion are all above average. Fusion and Milan are solid red circle.
I am not going to buy the lease out. Even with the subsidized lease, buying the lease out and financing the residual will cost me about 4K more than if I just bought and financed the damn thing to begin with. I will never lease again, no mater how much they subsidize them. In addition, I’ll have to buy another van in four years, and trade it in 3 years later and take another bath.
I think if I’ll be able to get 07 Sienna within about 3k more than the Odyssey, I’ll do that. If not, I’ll try to find 06 Sienna that meets our needs. Last case scenario would be the 07 Odyssey.
Thank you guys.
I judge reliability by long term. The ten year old 150,000 mile Hondas seem to always run and drive like new.
If resale is important, don't even think about anything Korean. Honda and Toyotas are the bast at that by far!
Very odd that BMW and Mercedes would not want to show off their vehicles as the whole auto show is going to be in a new space this year. Should be much better traffic then previous years.
It will be very interesting to see what knid of reation our 1959 Series II gets at the auto show. The space next to use is supposed to be vacant and if it is I will side that the Series II over there to protect it a little more.
This is false, Chryslers, especially 1 year old ones are close to 8-10k cheaper. You can get a new 06 Grand Caravan or T&C for $16000 around hear, you are looking at no less than $24000 for a comparable Sieddsey.
I agree w/exb0 on this. At least my own anecdotal evidence backs it up and CR repeatedly displays graphs showing the improvement in US automakers' vehicles relative to their competitors. In fact, it's the Germans who have noted reliability problems, but that doesn't seem to matter to the VW, Audi or MB buyers. My VW ultimately verified CR's statistics and my Honda and two Toyotas have been fantastic.
exb0--I can't comment on the underpowered Sienna except to say that my brother has a real need for speed and owns (or owned) a Corvette, Roadrunner, Trans Am, Mitsu Starion, Mazda twin turbo RX7 and an Australian Ford Falcon Interceptor (Mad Max car is what I call it). His daily driver is a 95 Toyota Previa w/ 4-cylinder supercharged engine. He much prefers that to his wife's 04 Mazda MPV w/a V6. If you really want some speed (and right side steering) he's selling the interceptor.
Gogiboy
If resale is important, don't even think about anything Korean. Honda and Toyotas are the bast at that by far!"
That's a good point isell, but it matters most to those who trade-in in the short-term. When I bought my Civic in 94 reliability was my biggest concern followed by safety and resale. Little did I know that I'd still have my Civic 13 years later (and it does drive almost like new). In 94 there was a significantly bigger gap in reliability between the Japanese manufacturers, Koreans and the Big 3. No doubt I can get more for my Civic than a "comparable" 94 Hyundai, but the difference at this point won't amount to much.
That said, I'll probably buy another Civic or Honda Fit, because Honda has really won me over and reliability is still my #1 priority. Conversely, my Pontiac died at 60K and I can't imagine what GM can do to win me back except to say that their current approach of discounting vehicles by $2-10K isn't much of an inducement.
Gogiboy
1) last model's sliding door motor issues, a rather common problem
2) last model's transmission woes - the added horsepower came at a cost
3) although both of these problems are common for minivans in general, when you pay more for the Odyssey/Sienna, you are really going to yelp if you have problems. Which means CR got an earful from the owners.
Now, my Mom has an 05 Sienna and I don't think it is underpowered, I think that the transmission is geared for gas mileage. If you put your foot in it, it will get going. But I think it will seem slower than your Honda, even if it isn't. Also, I would suggest sitting in the back of the Sienna for a ride....I find it very loud.
I can help with that. Every year CR sends out a survey to all their subscribers. They ask for year and model of all cars that they own, and have specific questions for each category for each car.
“Our latest survey, conducted in the spring of 2006, yielded information on about 1.3 million vehicles spanning the 1997 to 2006 model years. By looking at this data for past model years, we can predict how current models are likely to hold up. Our latest survey, conducted in the spring of 2006, yielded information on about 1.3 million vehicles spanning the 1997 to 2006 model years. By looking at this data for past model years, we can predict how current models are likely to hold up.”
I just read Odyssey problems and solutions thread and it matches closely what CR says: suspension and power equipment are rated as average; brakes, body integrity and body hardware are solid black (much below average); the audio system is a half black circle.
As far as Sienna 215HP, I don’t have need for speed in a minivan. However, it’s 215HP in a heavy minivan loaded with passengers and cargo. I live in suburban Washington DC where traffic is horrendous and drivers are obnoxious. You need some power driving around here to merge into a highway, change a lane or turn into a street, because nobody will let in.
This is where I think the whole resale value claim is meaningless. I have a 2000 Hyundai and of course the Honda that I could have gotten would be worth $2,500 or more than my Hyundai with the same mileage and condition. However I paid at least $3K less for the Hyundai. The Honda actually depreciated more than the Hyundai did in terms of dollars.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I do know that a lot of people expect Hondas and Toyots to be perfect so maybe these people just grip more whan something isn't just right?
exb0... what you need is torque, which allow you to change speeds quickly. i agree about dc traffic. i'm glad i don't have to drive in it often.
How many Odyssey owners are in CR's surveys this time? Do you have a number for that data?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My 02 Durango has 170000 miles on it, never had any major issues with it. Still runs like new.
Had 97 F150 that had 200000 miles on it, even less problems. In fact, the person that has it now, has over 260000 miles on it, still with no major issues. In fact they said it runs like new.
However I suspect the demographics of their magazine's target subscribers who will pay for a subscription include people who would have an Odyssey (or Sienna). Many who occasionally pick up a copy to see what they're doing now check at the library or a magazine rack or a doctor's office waiting room.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Close friends of ours have a 99 Durango with less than 100K miles, been in the repair shop countless times. They bought an ext. warranty with it and really got their money's worth.
Why do you type your responses in italics? Very difficult to read as most others use italics to indicate the part of the post folks are responding to.
I am looking for a manual with specific color and options.
And on a related note:
Is it possible to pick up the truck at the Nissan factory? I don't mind the destination charge, but I don't trust that all the kids involved in getting the truck to a dealer near me know how to handle a manual.
I apologize if this is not the right forum to ask.
Anyway, I went by two dealerships today. I went by an Infinity place first. Odd sort of lot; all the cars were inside a fence. The only way to look was to go through the dealership and pick up a sales person. All of whom were waiting in a tiny lobby. Slow sunday afternoon in November, so things weren't busy. There was only one other customer car in the front parking lot. Right up front, I explained I was just killing a little time and asked for a brochure on the G35. One of them volunteered to take me around the lot and answer questions. He gave me a good presentation, told me about them and the new '07s that had just arrived. I took my brochures and went on my way after about 15 minutes or so.
Still no call from the wife, so I thought I'd swing by the Mazda place and find out when the Mazdaspeed 3s are coming out. Unfortunately, they were closed. But i decided to look around on my own. That's when I found the best mop&glo addon sticker ever. They had 'Molecular Adhesion Protection' with the usual 'protection' package about the paint and seats and other nonsense. Only, they had a charge of 4995.00 for it. Almost 5K for 'Molecular Adhesion Protection'. I have never wished for a salesman so bad in my life to try to have this explained to me; how a coat of wax and scotchguard could be worth 5k and if they had any fools pay that for it.
Unbelievable.
That is and WILL BE THE ONLY technologhy MB "gives" to Chrysler ... EVER!!
That may be because you are in sales and not service. To try and establish whether that is the case, answer this question. Have you heard any complaints about any vehicles in Honda's range, and if so which models?
Ask what the clearcoat does on the paint. Does the paint need another layer of anything? NOT.
>4995.00 for
Really blatant to put the buyer off stance. Long ago went all over looking at Buicks in middle 90s. One dealer had $400 in plastic stripe, sprayon seat teflon (3M?), wax on paint protection. Lot of money then. Most dealers had less than $100 in markup money.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Don't want to get into a CR debate. Personally, I've never liked how and what they test. How they come up with their reliability stats, test size, test breakdown, is questionable, IMHO, too. But, some people swear by them.
It sounds like if the Sienna is underpowered for your use, then the Ody is the way to go. Maybe even expand the search to include Muranos, Highlanders and the ChryCo offerings (they sell ton of those every year....there must be something people like about them).
Unbelievable.
They wouldn’t be doing it if people weren’t buying it. Of course they are not paying full boat for this package but I’m willing to bet that if most of the buyers who fall for this stuff can negotiate it for half of what is being asked, they feel they are getting a great deal.
As you said, it’s amazing what some people are willing to pay for a bottle of Turtle wax and Scotchguard.
I’m selling a bridge and the water that's under it. If you know anyone like this, send them over but you gotta hurry, at the price I'm asking it won't last long and you can tell them that; they'll believe it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
snake, I had thought that the practice of adding outrageous "mop and glo" packages had subsided in recent years. Sounds like some are still "practicing" selling that stuff. It was crazy before. It's crazy now.
Then again, I never thought you could take water, put it in a bottle and sell it for $1+/ bottle, either. If I would have known that 10 years ago, I would be sitting on a yacht in Bermuda, retired.
Someone mentioned something about Chrysler and Mercedes sharing technology. Aside from the XFire, I know that some of the suspension bits on the 300 come from the Benz side. I also know that some of Jeep's 4WD technology has found its way into some of the 4WD offerings in the Benz catalog. I never thought the "marriage of equals" between Chrysler and Mercedes ever produced near the technology sharing that could have been realized. But, that merger was a mess from the beginning. It did neither company much good.
Yup most of the 300C/Magnum/Charger are from the previous generation E-Class.
They accept specific factory orders for your Xterra. When I was selling Nissans, I had a customer that built the strangest manual transmission Xterra. We ordered it and he was happy.
Is it possible to pick up the truck at the Nissan factory?
No. I understand you don't trust all the 'kids' involved. However, apparently they are doing something right. Millions of people all over the world have been able to enjoy vehicles without damage that have been handled by these kids.
-Moo
My 2 pennies.
-Moo
blkanblu
Why didn't I think of this before, don't worry if you can't find a buyer.
I'll dump it on 'graph' he has a boat that can go under the bridge and play in the water. He'll love it.
I hope you're not sending someone over already. I don't want to get into a bidding war over this. Might have to bump-up 'graph', he'll bite.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
But as someone else said they will come down, and a lot, and some Gomer out there will pay an outrageous price and think they got a deal.
Kind of like that Suzuki dealer I went to a few weeks ago that slapped a $3,000 market adjustment onto a SX4. I mentioned that to the salesman and his response was "oh we can negotiate on that". I am sure someone has or will fall for that, pay $1,000 or more over sticker and think they got a good deal. All the while other dealerships in the area are selling them for slightly under sticker.
David Hannum was right, there is a sucker born every minute.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It happens every day.
Apperently everyone else is offering 5,000-7,000 more dollars for tradeins then we are.
At the end of the day though we still do the deal for 500-750 dollars more then we originaly said the trade was worth.
Man I didn't know I was so good looking and that my products were so good that I could overcome losing as much as 6,000 dollars of price differance. :surprise:
But a buyer probably could negotiate the price down to (laugh) half that amount. :shades:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Yup, you'll see it on both sides of the fence. I don't typically see this amount of difference in trades, but that's probably because folks aren't trading in $80k cars.
I had a customer who wanted to trade in his Harley and his BMW on one vehicle. We appraised them and when I presented numbers, I held a total of $1,000. I didn't think it was exorbitant when there was a total of around $45k on the table.
He became very agitated, said he was insulted and started to leave. I asked the gentleman if he thought I was a mind reader. I had no intention of offending him! I just want to sell a car. He had none of it and left.
That one had me scratching my head and laughing at the same time.
-Moo
Also, the one downside with the Odysseys, are their transmissions. I still don't believe Honda has figured that one out, unless it was with the redesign.
Snake....I haven't seen Fargo in a while. I'll have to go to the DVD vault and dust that one off. Great movie. That scene in the car dealership with Macy selling the "add-ons" is classic.
ADM on a Suzuki? A SUZUKI? :sick:
kdh....I know just about everything in a car deal is negotiable. But, M&G, etching, etc ADM stickers just get in my way when I'm trying to buy. More often than not, if I walk into a dealership and see those ADM stickers, I'm just as likely to walk out. Maybe a personal choice, but any dealer that employs ADM for what amounts to next to nothing, isn't going to be a dealership I'm going to be very trusting of.
I see more ADM for "bling" these days though.....fancier wheels, DVD systems, body jewelry. I must be getting old. I just don't see the allure of the whole wheels, DVD systems (you want to watch a movie while driving, on a teeny-tiny screen?.....Go home for your movie watching). My favorite scene is seeing a car/truck with DVD screens playing in the back seat.....yet, there are no passengers back there.....UGH! What's the point?
Even worse, I see people trying to "hack" their navigation systems to play DVDs in the front seat. That's just ludicrous, dangerous...and stupid.
(rant over)
Errrrr, make that 4$ per bottle if you've been to a Reds game!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Are all Honda automatic trannys the same way?
I've got a story from my first year out of college. I took a job selling cars in Charlotte, NC at one of the larger dealerships. I had /no/ idea what I was getting into, but I wanted to work while I figured out what career path to follow and selling cars seemed as good as anything to do while I figured that out, and hell, I thought I might like it.
So, I'm a greenpea. I've been through the 3 days of training and they've taught me all sorts of tactics. I've done pretty well so far, mostly by not pulling some of the bs they wanted me to pull. I'm outside, waiting for an up and a couple pulls up. Older guy and gal, obviously well to do from the way they are dressed and the car they are driving. The wife is a looker, one of those older ladies that was smokin' hot when she was in her 20s and has kept herself in shape and age has only added character.
They want to look at Expeditions. This was the first model year for them and they were still commanding a premium so I'm thinking this might be a pretty good deal. I show them the stuff we have and they pick one out to test drive. We all three pile in and go on the test drive, husband driving. They seem enthusiastic so I ask if they're interested in talking numbers. We get into the office and start to fill out the paperwork and they're whispering.
So the husband says, "I hate to do this, but could we go for another test drive? My wife didn't get to try it and she'll be driving it mostly." So I offer, "Sure, tell you what, let's go ahead and finish the paperwork and I'll give it to the tower while we take another drive." They were agreeable so that's what we do. I tell the sales mgr what's going on and he's cool with it.
So I come back out of the tower and the wife is standing there waiting. No hubby. I inquire 'Oh, he has to use the restroom, but he's already driven it so he said to go on without him.' A little odd, but whatever. So off we go.
We're doing the route and she says, 'Oh, hey, can we pull in here. I want to have a look at the back.' "Sure lady, whatever you want. So she pulls into this office parking lot that's deserted, and climbs over the console :confuse: showing me a bit of panty flash. She gets in the backseat and the next thing I know her dress is over her head and I'm being propositioned! :surprise:
Now, being 22, there was an impulse to hit that like the fist of an angry god, but the little bells in my head were banging out a four-alarmer that something hinky was up. I told her 'Lady, put your clothes back on and give me the keys. Otherwise I'm walking back to the dealership and calling the cops.'. She complied and off we went back to the dealership in awkward silence.
Weird part was, they bought the car, negotiated the 2k premium down to 1k. One of the biggest sales I made while I was there.
Sounds like a Forum letter...."I was attending a small midwestern college and never thought this could happen to me......"
That's to impress the people behind them while at a light. I think these things have on/off switches (or at least they should for what they cost) and don't have to be on while the ignition is ignitioning.
Even worse, I see people trying to "hack" their navigation systems to play DVDs in the front seat. That's just ludicrous, dangerous...and stupid.
(rant over)
I'll continue the rant.
I can't believe the NTSB and insurance companies have allowed Nav Systems in vehicles of any kind. To me, watching a Nav System is no different than watching a TV/DVD (call it what you like) while driving.
Compared to this stuff, cell phones are a walk in the park.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Some nav systems can have in motion functionality enabled by entering the back of the system and using certain codes.
I can do that on all of the Rover nav systems.
Yup so are the Rover ones but the moment you start moving everything but the SOS features is disabled.
Lexus is the same way as the same company makes both nav systems.